As a trans person, seeing how VCT viewers treat Flor makes it hard to keep being a fan. I've been a lurker for a while and any time she comes up I want to interact with this community less and less. Even when people aren't arguing over Flor's existence people still misgender her and they show that their arguments are just in bad faith. At least don't try to act like you're innocent while refusing to grant basic respect to others.
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Being a trans VCT fan
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https://www.vlr.gg/464913/vlr-logic-in-a-nutshell
if you can't see the crux of an argument such as this i'm sorry u are a fucking retard.
idgaf abt flor, the hate and the overglaze are just boring as fuck
I mean flor's "overglaze" could plausible be from unnecessary loaded hate but I don't see this hate on vlr. I have only seen about 3 posts in which someone has actually challenged flor's personal identity, this is out of roughly 20-50 vlr threads I've seen in which flor is the topic of contention.
I mean just look at some of the comments in this thread which aren't even arguing against Lilith and yet they get a shit ton of downvotes bc they argue that a lot of flor hate isn't coming from a disrespectful place. e.g #2, #10.
Just from doing a quick skim read I can only find 1 post which has been transphobic - #20
If you are mentioning platforms like x and some twitch channels like shanks then yes there is a fair bit of transphobic comments but I can never find many on vlr tbh.
The mods could be deleting these transphobic comments before I see them but often I see these threads early before they get nuked
It would make sense, IF the community didn't have a long history of slandering florescent and other trans GC pros for being trans. Whatever your beliefs on the topic, an undeniable truth is that riot made GC for all marginalised genders, and back when flor played in GC, a lot of hate was sent her way simply for being trans and playing in the GC scene. If you think all that hate magically disappeared, you are an idiot. The sad truth is that the community didn't hate flor because she was too good for GC. They hated her because she was transgender. This hate is subconscious for a lot of people, meaning they don't even realise that they hate flor because she is trans. There was never a problem with other players being overhyped but all of a sudden everyone sees it necessary to abuse the player for the fans overhyping her? There is definitely some underlying hate for flor there.
Not disagreeing/agreeing with your point but I want to ask a question to do with "riot made GC for all marginalised genders"
If riot did make it for marginalised genders why are they now partnering with an event sponsored by people who fundamentally deny certain marginalised genders existences and end up torturing and killing them in their own country.
also, I genuinely don't think Flor is overhyped I think she looks like a duelist to the same calibre as Mada on NRG with the fragging potential and she has an amazing team supporting her, she drops good numbers, has good pathing, etc.
tbf (correct if im wrong) there are more "flor bad playin in farmer league not suit for tier one" posts than posts about her gender
posts than posts about her gender
Usually these posts appear during game changers when she was still playing in there, without OPs post i dont think i saw any posts that targeted flors gender
Misgendering isn’t disrespectful to some extent cause not everyone aligns with another persons opinions so as long as they don’t discriminate trans people it’s ok to call them what the society/people general view as for example a trans person getting called their former gender isn’t disrespectful maybe as long as they treat lgbtq community as just another normal community with respect. Hate me if u want and just speaking logically ;))
It is disrespectful as u see cause I am a MAN and trans people they weren’t like that since birth they changed after a certain time so not everyone may align with that opinion , intentionally misgendering is bad but genuinely not aligning with their opinion is ok. If misgendering is that disrespectful then am not john nor Samantha call me a “cat” or Donald trump cause that’s what I want to be called
I’m not agreeing with him but your example isn’t a great comparison. The majority of the world doesn’t have a problem with calling someone by their legal name and the majority of the world would agree it’s disrespectful not to use their legal name. Even in countries that don’t agree with LGBT. However not every country agrees with LGBT. And it gets even harder for non-binary people and language barriers. For example someone having They/Them pronouns just wouldn’t make sense in other languages.
So it’s not always disrespect but ofc it still happens and definitely on vlr.
if you woke up in the body of the opposite gender but with your mentality, people calling you by the opposite sex you know you are but stuck in the body of the opposite sex, how would you feel? would you say the same thing? people dont align with your thought because they dont know what you know about yourself, trans people have every right in the world to be mad at you for misgendering them, you wouldnt like to be treated as a girl even though you are a boy but stuck in a girls body would you?
OP, hate to break it to you but this isn't just vlr or vct, it's the whole world. idk if you're part of a very liberal community; i am, and when i'm interacting with those people it's hard to tell that transphobia exists. i feel bad for you, but if you're going to avoid communities where many people are transphobic, it's hard to go anywhere
Unfortunately, trans people are in a weird situation. If you've had the chance to actually have a trans friend, you can see that they're real people, they feel things, and they bleed and hurt just like you. They're not some fantastical creature.
The whole thing is blown up in the media as if it were an epidemic, that trans people are taking over and changing norms. Most of the people speaking on flor or trans people in general have never interacted with one IRL. They don't see them as real people, just headlines and conversation pieces.
You don't have to agree with it. I'm personally not the most liberal guy, and I don't 100% agree with it. But I'm also not a loser who goes OUT of his way to misgender people and make them feel bad. Forget trans politics. Why would anyone purposely try to make someone feel bad?
It's easy to do when thinking about these people as news stories, but if your friend or someone in your life came to you and spoke from the heart and said that they are trans... will you not support this person as someone you love? Or are you going to just be a weirdo and throw them aside as if their gender had everything to do with who they were in your life?
There are bad men, bad women, bad christians, bad muslims, bad jews, bad whites, bad blacks, bad asians. The list can infinitely go on.
The toxicity of each of these groups of people are amplified tenfold on the news for clicks and impressions. I promise you there are A LOT more normal people compared to the outliers you see on the internet and the news.
Most of any group just want to live their lives.
Val community is dominated by young males and unfortunately young males in a lot of English-speaking countries (and elsewhere, obviously) have been radicalized by extreme media either extreme left or right which are both toxic for different reasons but for young males it's mostly extreme right. All you can do is just realize that these people are severely misled in their opinions and also some facts and told that hating trans people is cool and the right thing to do. When you're unfortunately told something again and again whether or not you are a good person or not you start to believe it. While I'm not saying it will help your situation, I feel like knowing that it is not just that they decided this on their own and they're doing it out of the hate of their heart but rather they were radicalized by media and they are misled might help ease your mind, even if it doesn't negate the harassment.
agreed with the culture thing in asian/african countries, goes back to the same point which is that if you are told something again and again and misled on certain information you will just think that way. but definitely in the UK+US transphobia is on the rise and you can see it in chats because of extreme media.
another quick thing to mention is that younger people knowing english in those countries is on the rise due to america being a media conglomerate, which means they're accessing our social media which I already mentioned has extreme radicalized content. so the culture on top of that just makes it even worse.
I think you missed my point, vlr being a place full of young idiots, (probably 13 years old which must be your case), so i don't think vlr is a good place for that, I'm not surprised by these behaviors on this site. And these are the most impressionable people, look how social networks brainwash these people lol (same can be said for old people also, but the number of young people who are just subjected to social networks, and some of them don't know how to use technology even though they've grown up with it, it's just sad, but I digress.) Also, you talk about arguments, i would like to know yours, because you know, it's cool to flex it, but actually show it
a biological man can't change his gender to woman and vice versa. And the concept that gender is a social construct, that you can express yourself as the other gender even if you're not biologically that gender is a made up illusion. There exists only biological gender, nothing more, that's my argument
well gender is a social construct to start with. Ur equating sex and gender when they are different terms. If you want to say they are the same to avoid confusion use the term sex.
Moving on, you have probably interacted with AT THE VERY LEAST 100 trans people in your life if you are over the age of 18 and don't live in a country where they kill people for that. Most of those times you wouldn't have known it. Hormone therapy, voice training, top surgery, a little facial surgery and some makeup. All that and it's impossible to tell that a person is trans unless, well you know. People can't change their chromosomes they can change their biology. It's not as black and white as you are making it seem. Some german scientists released a really nice 400 page report that goes in favor of trans people (especially kids) recently, so to the guy below citing detransition rates: read that. You are looking at data likely from Cass Review, which was EXTREMELY cherry picked.
Definitely gonna be hard for you since VCT is the whole world. A lot of different people with different ideology and belief came into one place. You need to be able to handle the truth that ideology clash and not everything can go happy rainbow and sunshine. I really do hope you can enjoy VCT as a viewer without dealing toxicity but its really hard for it to be ignored. Anyways i hope you have a good day and going to VLR forum is a bad idea for this topic. Peace.
actually slop for brains the lot of ya. Comparing trans people to nazis and slavery like brother you are the mentally ill fucks who are so upset about someone being themselves you go on a fucking video game forum to froth at the mouth over one bad performance from a trans woman. this entire comment section just reiterates OPs point. We’re deadass just humans not conversation topics I guarantee every sniveling brat here would quake if they had to say this to a trans person irl. Shoutout to the goats in the comment section fighting back though but fr some of yall need to touch grass. trans women are women florescent clears you fucks and always will!
Hey OP. I hope you haven't been reading these replies. 95% of people on VLR are either 13 years old, stupid, or silver. I know the internet (and also real life) is rough to be open about your identity, but this website is filled with children willing to dehumanize you because they live sad lives and they think that makes them worth something. You are 100x braver than they'll ever be just for making this post.
I hope you are able to find a community where you can watch valorant matches and not experience any hate. I know this probably sounds like a broken record, but I've found Sliggy's watchparties to be pretty good at moderating to make sure you feel included. If you want a place to watchparty, that'd be my first recommendation. As someone that isn't trans but is a minority in other ways, I understand what you're feeling and know you're not alone in that sense.
You are valid and you matter -- don't let the idiots get to your head.
I personally said that I didn't care about trans people because they didn't do anything to me, and that even transphobia was shit, that flor deserved his place in T1 etc... They managed to delete this message lmfao, nah I don't understand the moderation on this site, I see racist things pass by every day on this site, but this, this doesn't get deleted, nice.
That's so freaking valid. Sometimes to enjoy things I have to block out some of the online noise. Replies on vctwt, this forum, and certain chats are the worst of the worst. I think there's a space for everyone just sucks not every space is okay for everyone. Protect your mental first. It shouldn't have to be like this, and I'm sorry that it is. <3
Unfortunately, trans hate is one of the number one talking points for the right rn. In gaming, where most people ignore politics or social issues because they aren't effected and are used to toxic in-game lobbies, they also tend to have little to no empathy or understanding of trans people. Valorant is actually one of the better of esports for them since they actually try to keep things civil and fish out some of the weirdos, but it's still not great by any means.
There are still many pockets of the scene that are trans-friendly though, which is a rarity for an esport. I would seek out and enjoy those, since you have little way of changing the minds of people who don't care or aren't empathetic enough to see reason
no way bro, you know what i don't like about this, is that man have to get into everything, like GC was supposed to be "Woman league" but people like FLOR makes it look like the best player of GC is a "MAN" since it's a league for Woman they should be glaced not man instead, i know a lot of people will dislike my opinion but who cares, the point is not that i dislike flor for being trans, i just dislike that men get into everything now even "woman stuff"...
the league isnt just for "women" its marginalized genders/groups. the least you can do when you have an opinion is be factually correct when its about rules,regulations and basic info we all have access to. the fact you see flor as a man when she is clearly a woman qualifies her for the marginalized groups part. so either suck it up and accept the reality that she is a woman or stfu cos if you dont and you keep that opinion regardless of what you think she qualifies for GC. shes not even in that league anymore so atleast stay relevant
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