Being a trans VCT fan

#127

Zerphyr1

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I mean flor's "overglaze" could plausible be from unnecessary loaded hate but I don't see this hate on vlr. I have only seen about 3 posts in which someone has actually challenged flor's personal identity, this is out of roughly 20-50 vlr threads I've seen in which flor is the topic of contention.

I mean just look at some of the comments in this thread which aren't even arguing against Lilith and yet they get a shit ton of downvotes bc they argue that a lot of flor hate isn't coming from a disrespectful place. e.g #2, #10.

Just from doing a quick skim read I can only find 1 post which has been transphobic - #20

If you are mentioning platforms like x and some twitch channels like shanks then yes there is a fair bit of transphobic comments but I can never find many on vlr tbh.

The mods could be deleting these transphobic comments before I see them but often I see these threads early before they get nuked

#129

unknown_trash

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Do the people on twitter and twitch not count as part of the valorant community? There might not be too much hate on vlr.gg but it definitely exists on other platforms.

#133

Zerphyr1

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My argument is specifically about vlr.gg since thats what this thread is about.

#139

unknown_trash

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Fair enough. But iirc there used to be multiple threads every time flor played in GC on this site. The transphobia was really bad. I can understand why the OP felt repulsed by the users on this site. These threads often got banned within 24 hours but these types of people definitely exist and lurk on this site as well. Some of them may have been ragebaiters but some of them genuinely sounded like bigoted transphobes.

#131

Effluxi

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As someone who was here when the thread originally took off, the mods have absolutely cleaned up the thread since.

In particular, a number of accounts, including from memory, the account "Pistolroundvyseult" were contributing to significant attacks in the manner you described, and are now missing.

I imagine the thread, and #10 in particular, have survived because they are genuine expressions of sentiment that can and should discussed in a productive and meaningful manner. Much of this threat at the time of the Apeks game was not that.

I appreciate that the mods have gone to the effort of creating that environment instead of just nuking the entire thread.

#143

ash_knuckles

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I think we've both just had differing experiences then. A lot of the arguments I see are ppl just hiding behind shitty premises. A lot of them start out true like

flor overrated cause shes only played farmer's league

This is true. But those kinds of threads quickly dissolve into transphobia, outing that most of these ppl werent looking for an argument in the first place, lol.

not everyone has to respect her pronouns

This is also true. However, to prove that you are in fact arguing in good faith, you either have to or just sidestep the matter entirely. Either of those are fine.

I don't even care abt either the upvote/downvote ratio or le gender/sex decoupling argument. The idea that gender is decoupled from sex and transient, disregarding it's legitimacy or otherwise, is fundamentally incompatible with the structure of today's society, so it will be divisive for a long time to come.

Anyway, flor is a young player, lots of talent, lots of room to grow. Only reason I commented on this thread is cause I think the conversation around her is incredibly boring, this post was getting a lot of traction, and I had nothing better to do at the time. That is all.

#144

Zerphyr1

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I agree that a lot of people on this site do not respect trans peoples autonomy which is shown by arguments that are framed as neutral but are ultimately trying to undermine flors identity and her trans experience. However a lot of these posts are genuine criticisms which are in good faith and shouldn't be diminished because of a few posts are in bad faith.

These posts aren't transphobic in their nature but I can easily see how they can dissolve into a transphobic post.

All in all, I agree that a lot of the arguments are ppl arguing in bad faith but these should just be ignored and some of these people disagree with trans identity but are arguing in a respectful manner. I would argue that transphobia isn't just disagreeing with ones identity claim but doing so in a disrespectful and having negative attitudes towards them.

Just some comments I thought I would add but yeah I agree with everything in ur post. Also I think that flor hate mostly comes from people being pissed at how much love she gets from the val community even if she isn't very accomplished. I see a ton of posts talking about how flor is a top x player or is carrying apeks (definitely less common nowadays) and these posts paint flor as this new upcoming prodigy when she is objectively just a mid emea tier 1 player. So this overhype I think is mostly contributing to her hate, also the more love and attention a player gets, the more hate they naturally get, it just depends on the positive to negative hate ratio. (take aspas, demon1, and tenz)