As a trans person, seeing how VCT viewers treat Flor makes it hard to keep being a fan. I've been a lurker for a while and any time she comes up I want to interact with this community less and less. Even when people aren't arguing over Flor's existence people still misgender her and they show that their arguments are just in bad faith. At least don't try to act like you're innocent while refusing to grant basic respect to others.
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Being a trans VCT fan
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Misgendering isn’t disrespectful to some extent cause not everyone aligns with another persons opinions so as long as they don’t discriminate trans people it’s ok to call them what the society/people general view as for example a trans person getting called their former gender isn’t disrespectful maybe as long as they treat lgbtq community as just another normal community with respect. Hate me if u want and just speaking logically ;))
OP, hate to break it to you but this isn't just vlr or vct, it's the whole world. idk if you're part of a very liberal community; i am, and when i'm interacting with those people it's hard to tell that transphobia exists. i feel bad for you, but if you're going to avoid communities where many people are transphobic, it's hard to go anywhere
Notbaka [#10]Misgendering isn’t disrespectful to some extent cause not everyone aligns with another persons opinions so as long as they don’t discriminate trans people it’s ok to call them what the society/people general view as for example a trans person getting called their former gender isn’t disrespectful maybe as long as they treat lgbtq community as just another normal community with respect. Hate me if u want and just speaking logically ;))
a smart vlr user, I think its time to put all my net worth on red
idkbro [#12]a smart vlr user, I think its time to put all my net worth on red
unfortunately hes gonna get downvoted because vlr users dont listen to reason
ggd12345 [#11]OP, hate to break it to you but this isn't just vlr or vct, it's the whole world. idk if you're part of a very liberal community; i am, and when i'm interacting with those people it's hard to tell that transphobia exists. i feel bad for you, but if you're going to avoid communities where many people are transphobic, it's hard to go anywhere
Well obviously, but this is literally an esports forum. I'm shocked people can call being trans a mental illness and emphasize traditional masculinity when they spend their time on an esports forum. It's very cherry picked
4so4so4so [#4]Tbh VLR is probably the worst place for this. I’d stick to the valcomp subreddit people are a lot friendlier there
reddit propaganda
Unfortunately, trans people are in a weird situation. If you've had the chance to actually have a trans friend, you can see that they're real people, they feel things, and they bleed and hurt just like you. They're not some fantastical creature.
The whole thing is blown up in the media as if it were an epidemic, that trans people are taking over and changing norms. Most of the people speaking on flor or trans people in general have never interacted with one IRL. They don't see them as real people, just headlines and conversation pieces.
Vatsug [#20]Insane how people can be so dumb and disrespectful in these replys. Omg, y'all are scum
omg bestiee stfu
Val community is dominated by young males and unfortunately young males in a lot of English-speaking countries (and elsewhere, obviously) have been radicalized by extreme media either extreme left or right which are both toxic for different reasons but for young males it's mostly extreme right. All you can do is just realize that these people are severely misled in their opinions and also some facts and told that hating trans people is cool and the right thing to do. When you're unfortunately told something again and again whether or not you are a good person or not you start to believe it. While I'm not saying it will help your situation, I feel like knowing that it is not just that they decided this on their own and they're doing it out of the hate of their heart but rather they were radicalized by media and they are misled might help ease your mind, even if it doesn't negate the harassment.
Vatsug [#24]go touch some grass lil bro
omg did you just assume my gender? wtf so now it doesn't matter?
cxrsedval [#2]then don't interact? most people are just saying shes not that good at the game not like calling her slurs lmao
downvoting when hes right, no one here calls flor names or anything just her skill level
reremus [#21]Unfortunately, trans people are in a weird situation. If you've had the chance to actually have a trans friend, you can see that they're real people, they feel things, and they bleed and hurt just like you. They're not some fantastical creature.
The whole thing is blown up in the media as if it were an epidemic, that trans people are taking over and changing norms. Most of the people speaking on flor or trans people in general have never interacted with one IRL. They don't see them as real people, just headlines and conversation pieces.
Yea I agree with you But People who don’t align with that opinion but are not discriminating the community arent to be blamed for being disrespectful
Prancer [#17]You literally called me 7 slurs the first time I made a post
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!!!
Deal with that kid!
Starrins [#28]omg did you just assume my gender? wtf so now it doesn't matter?
so ya a lil girl? my bad
revokeshoots [#25]Val community is dominated by young males and unfortunately young males in a lot of English-speaking countries (and elsewhere, obviously) have been radicalized by extreme media either extreme left or right which are both toxic for different reasons but for young males it's mostly extreme right. All you can do is just realize that these people are severely misled in their opinions and also some facts and told that hating trans people is cool and the right thing to do. When you're unfortunately told something again and again whether or not you are a good person or not you start to believe it. While I'm not saying it will help your situation, I feel like knowing that it is not just that they decided this on their own and they're doing it out of the hate of their heart but rather they were radicalized by media and they are misled might help ease your mind, even if it doesn't negate the harassment.
its more of a cultural thing imo. in 'western' countries, they have school units on lgbtq, but i think that really just depends on your family/way you were raised. i think that english speaking countries are a lot more open to lgbtq than asian and african countries
cned_best_player [#29]downvoting when hes right, no one here calls flor names or anything just her skill level
they do btw. Half the arguments are surface level and quickly dissolve into that
tiyoe [#35]its more of a cultural thing imo. in 'western' countries, they have school units on lgbtq, but i think that really just depends on your family/way you were raised. i think that english speaking countries are a lot more open to lgbtq than asian and african countries
agreed with the culture thing in asian/african countries, goes back to the same point which is that if you are told something again and again and misled on certain information you will just think that way. but definitely in the UK+US transphobia is on the rise and you can see it in chats because of extreme media.
another quick thing to mention is that younger people knowing english in those countries is on the rise due to america being a media conglomerate, which means they're accessing our social media which I already mentioned has extreme radicalized content. so the culture on top of that just makes it even worse.
Notbaka [#32]Yea I agree with you But People who don’t align with that opinion but are not discriminating the community arent to be blamed for being disrespectful
You don't have to agree with it. I'm personally not the most liberal guy, and I don't 100% agree with it. But I'm also not a loser who goes OUT of his way to misgender people and make them feel bad. Forget trans politics. Why would anyone purposely try to make someone feel bad?
It's easy to do when thinking about these people as news stories, but if your friend or someone in your life came to you and spoke from the heart and said that they are trans... will you not support this person as someone you love? Or are you going to just be a weirdo and throw them aside as if their gender had everything to do with who they were in your life?
ash_knuckles [#36]they do btw. Half the arguments are surface level and quickly dissolve into that
they dont lol
cned_best_player [#41]they dont lol
brother u have 800 posts shut the fuck up respectfully I can literally pull shit up verbatim.
I would like if they didn't, and it's unfortunate that it's just thinly veiled bias tbh
reremus [#39]You don't have to agree with it. I'm personally not the most liberal guy, and I don't 100% agree with it. But I'm also not a loser who goes OUT of his way to misgender people and make them feel bad. Forget trans politics. Why would anyone purposely try to make someone feel bad?
It's easy to do when thinking about these people as news stories, but if your friend or someone in your life came to you and spoke from the heart and said that they are trans... will you not support this person as someone you love? Or are you going to just be a weirdo and throw them aside as if their gender had everything to do with who they were in your life?
Absolutely no will still be friends with them but as u see on the internet the toxic lgbtq community if my friend acts like that I will cut that person off for sure
ash_knuckles [#42]brother u have 800 posts shut the fuck up respectfully I can literally pull shit up verbatim.
I would like if they didn't, and it's unfortunate that it's just thinly veiled bias tbh
you have 5000 posts go see your family bro they miss you 😂
also when im on the site dosen't mean i have to post xDDD
Notbaka [#43]Absolutely no will still be friends with them but as u see on the internet the toxic lgbtq community if my friend acts like that I will cut that person off for sure
There are bad men, bad women, bad christians, bad muslims, bad jews, bad whites, bad blacks, bad asians. The list can infinitely go on.
The toxicity of each of these groups of people are amplified tenfold on the news for clicks and impressions. I promise you there are A LOT more normal people compared to the outliers you see on the internet and the news.
Most of any group just want to live their lives.
snowconedeity [#23]yeah shit sucks it’s why i only rly watch cisterns anymore (sideshow or tarik mostly)
Tarik Pr guy so kinda boring but good person , sideshow kinda a virtue signaller tbh
reremus [#45]There are bad men, bad women, bad christians, bad muslims, bad jews, bad whites, bad blacks, bad asians. The list can infinitely go on.
The toxicity of each of these groups of people are amplified tenfold on the news for clicks and impressions. I promise you there are A LOT more normal people compared to the outliers you see on the internet and the news.
Most of any group just want to live their lives.
Hmm yea the internet has introduced brilliant minds while at the same time spoiling many ;))
sameer40 [#37]respectfully vlr isnt the place when the avg poster is 92.3iq and gold 1
yeah u can really tell by these upvote ratios
i wonder which group of ppl is the "majority" of the 92iq and gold 1 that ur talking about....
pistolroundVyseUlt [#49]yeah u can really tell by these upvote ratios
i wonder which group of ppl is the "majority" of the 92iq and gold 1 that ur talking about....
bro decided to speak facts
cned_best_player [#44]you have 5000 posts go see your family bro they miss you 😂
also when im on the site dosen't mean i have to post xDDD
https://www.vlr.gg/464913/vlr-logic-in-a-nutshell
if you can't see the crux of an argument such as this i'm sorry u are a fucking retard.
idgaf abt flor, the hate and the overglaze are just boring as fuck
sameer40 [#37]respectfully vlr isnt the place when the avg poster is 92.3iq and gold 1
You're being generous
ash_knuckles [#52]https://www.vlr.gg/464913/vlr-logic-in-a-nutshell
if you can't see the crux of an argument such as this i'm sorry u are a fucking retard.
idgaf abt flor, the hate and the overglaze are just boring as fuck
hes not wrong LMAO, people are saying shes better than aspas because of the gc tax 😂
Congo1 [#6]VLR is the worst place to be. Places like Sliggy stream, reddit, tarik and some other places are very sanitized and welcoming.
VLR or main broadcasts are not the place to be for you. It is what it is
icl like a good 25% of valcomp are the most unlikeable people i've seen online
okay slight exaggeration, Ive met a lot worse, but still.
kfan4238173 [#16]reddit propaganda
i mean i much prefer VLR but reddit is moderated heavily so if you want to avoid things that may offend you its probably better
cxrsedval [#2]then don't interact? most people are just saying shes not that good at the game not like calling her slurs lmao
-35 ?? this site is cooked
sameer40 [#37]respectfully vlr isnt the place when the avg poster is 92.3iq and gold 1
92.3iq and gold 1, you are too kind, i would rather say a negative iq and iron 2
ritasia7 [#57]-35 ?? this site is cooked
exactly 😭, if it wasnt night in asia it wouldnt be this bad lmaooo
cned_best_player [#54]hes not wrong LMAO, people are saying shes better than aspas because of the gc tax 😂
ok ur sped so lemme handhold u.
rebuttal to #17 is his argument falling apart. the reason flor's supporters overglaze her is cause she gets so much unnecessary hate in the first place. anyone saying she's better than aspas is dumb LMAO, so is anyone saying she's shit
Notbaka [#46]Tarik Pr guy so kinda boring but good person , sideshow kinda a virtue signaller tbh
yeah i mean i usually watch sgares if im being honest but sideshow is my goat as well, honestly 90% of the costrramers have chill chats besides like, ardiis
snowconedeity [#61]yeah i mean i usually watch sgares if im being honest but sideshow is my goat as well, honestly 90% of the costrramers have chill chats besides like, ardiis
Ardiis is funny not sure bout his chat same with shanks , sgares good but my mind tells me he is a Asuna lover
Definitely gonna be hard for you since VCT is the whole world. A lot of different people with different ideology and belief came into one place. You need to be able to handle the truth that ideology clash and not everything can go happy rainbow and sunshine. I really do hope you can enjoy VCT as a viewer without dealing toxicity but its really hard for it to be ignored. Anyways i hope you have a good day and going to VLR forum is a bad idea for this topic. Peace.
cxrsedval [#59]exactly 😭, if it wasnt night in asia it wouldnt be this bad lmaooo
why are you awake rn and on vlr
actually slop for brains the lot of ya. Comparing trans people to nazis and slavery like brother you are the mentally ill fucks who are so upset about someone being themselves you go on a fucking video game forum to froth at the mouth over one bad performance from a trans woman. this entire comment section just reiterates OPs point. We’re deadass just humans not conversation topics I guarantee every sniveling brat here would quake if they had to say this to a trans person irl. Shoutout to the goats in the comment section fighting back though but fr some of yall need to touch grass. trans women are women florescent clears you fucks and always will!
Hey OP. I hope you haven't been reading these replies. 95% of people on VLR are either 13 years old, stupid, or silver. I know the internet (and also real life) is rough to be open about your identity, but this website is filled with children willing to dehumanize you because they live sad lives and they think that makes them worth something. You are 100x braver than they'll ever be just for making this post.
I hope you are able to find a community where you can watch valorant matches and not experience any hate. I know this probably sounds like a broken record, but I've found Sliggy's watchparties to be pretty good at moderating to make sure you feel included. If you want a place to watchparty, that'd be my first recommendation. As someone that isn't trans but is a minority in other ways, I understand what you're feeling and know you're not alone in that sense.
You are valid and you matter -- don't let the idiots get to your head.
H3ENnZ [#33]Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!!!
Deal with that kid!
Get ready to be in astra jail buddy
LycheeBlade [#67]Hey OP. I hope you haven't been reading these replies. 95% of people on VLR are either 13 years old, stupid, or silver. I know the internet (and also real life) is rough to be open about your identity, but this website is filled with children willing to dehumanize you because they live sad lives and they think that makes them worth something. You are 100x braver than they'll ever be just for making this post.
I hope you are able to find a community where you can watch valorant matches and not experience any hate. I know this probably sounds like a broken record, but I've found Sliggy's watchparties to be pretty good at moderating to make sure you feel included. If you want a place to watchparty, that'd be my first recommendation. As someone that isn't trans but is a minority in other ways, I understand what you're feeling and know you're not alone in that sense.
You are valid and you matter -- don't let the idiots get to your head.
abnormally common Columbia W
LycheeBlade [#67]Hey OP. I hope you haven't been reading these replies. 95% of people on VLR are either 13 years old, stupid, or silver. I know the internet (and also real life) is rough to be open about your identity, but this website is filled with children willing to dehumanize you because they live sad lives and they think that makes them worth something. You are 100x braver than they'll ever be just for making this post.
I hope you are able to find a community where you can watch valorant matches and not experience any hate. I know this probably sounds like a broken record, but I've found Sliggy's watchparties to be pretty good at moderating to make sure you feel included. If you want a place to watchparty, that'd be my first recommendation. As someone that isn't trans but is a minority in other ways, I understand what you're feeling and know you're not alone in that sense.
You are valid and you matter -- don't let the idiots get to your head.
Lmfao bro copy pasted a reddit comment
ash_knuckles [#60]ok ur sped so lemme handhold u.
rebuttal to #17 is his argument falling apart. the reason flor's supporters overglaze her is cause she gets so much unnecessary hate in the first place. anyone saying she's better than aspas is dumb LMAO, so is anyone saying she's shit
Agree, real answer is that she can hold in tier 1 but won’t be the next aspas. Good player, but that’s it.
rtg9000 [#55]icl like a good 25% of valcomp are the most unlikeable people i've seen online
okay slight exaggeration, Ive met a lot worse, but still.
i really dislike the place too but for trans people its just better.
Starrins [#51]ur into lil girls aren't ya
Nah, but judging by your projection, you might wanna check your own search history.
Clucker [#77]Swear this thread had like almost 200 replies, howd it get nuked down to 70 lol
The mods apparently don't like people having discussions on a forum board meant for discussion. I didn't even say anything bad about her and got deleted. Mods on this site are clearly a joke
Nikkori [#80]The mods apparently don't like people having discussions on a forum board meant for discussion. I didn't even say anything bad about her and got deleted. Mods on this site are clearly a joke
I personally said that I didn't care about trans people because they didn't do anything to me, and that even transphobia was shit, that flor deserved his place in T1 etc... They managed to delete this message lmfao, nah I don't understand the moderation on this site, I see racist things pass by every day on this site, but this, this doesn't get deleted, nice.
reremus [#45]There are bad men, bad women, bad christians, bad muslims, bad jews, bad whites, bad blacks, bad asians. The list can infinitely go on.
The toxicity of each of these groups of people are amplified tenfold on the news for clicks and impressions. I promise you there are A LOT more normal people compared to the outliers you see on the internet and the news.
Most of any group just want to live their lives.
reremus woke up and decided that it's time to drop an absolute truth nuke on us
milflover92 [#82]reremus woke up and decided that it's time to drop an absolute truth nuke on us
thanks milflover92
Yistyy [#84]Hi, I'm sorry that you feel alienated on here. Looks like mods cleaned up this thread, there are a lot of good suggestions such as #68. Something I would recommend is to install the
VLR+bettervlr extension, you can use it to block users. If you ever need anything, feel free to shoot me a DM!
I didn't know there was an extension for it, it's really great, but I just think it's a shame that it's not integrated into the website as standard
Voltigar [#85]I didn't know there was an extension for it, it's really great, but I just think it's a shame that it's not integrated into the website as standard
Yeah I agree, it has a bunch of neat qol features that wouldn't hurt to implement.
Notbaka [#10]Misgendering isn’t disrespectful to some extent cause not everyone aligns with another persons opinions so as long as they don’t discriminate trans people it’s ok to call them what the society/people general view as for example a trans person getting called their former gender isn’t disrespectful maybe as long as they treat lgbtq community as just another normal community with respect. Hate me if u want and just speaking logically ;))
ok they didn't delete this even after so many down-votes glad to see that that mods respect people's opinion even if most don't agree
Voltigar [#40]Like every others person, vlr is just a bad website, there is very little moderation on this site, people here are straight up toxic, baiting, typical valorant community i guess... Ah also they are young, i'm not suprised
oh they're young, what an argument right there 👏👏... now go ask some old people how they feel about this topic.
suklaamies699 [#89]oh they're young, what an argument right there 👏👏... now go ask some old people how they feel about this topic.
bcos being old has always been a great way to verify someones right
suklaamies699 [#89]oh they're young, what an argument right there 👏👏... now go ask some old people how they feel about this topic.
I think you missed my point, vlr being a place full of young idiots, (probably 13 years old which must be your case), so i don't think vlr is a good place for that, I'm not surprised by these behaviors on this site. And these are the most impressionable people, look how social networks brainwash these people lol (same can be said for old people also, but the number of young people who are just subjected to social networks, and some of them don't know how to use technology even though they've grown up with it, it's just sad, but I digress.) Also, you talk about arguments, i would like to know yours, because you know, it's cool to flex it, but actually show it
Notbaka [#10]Misgendering isn’t disrespectful to some extent cause not everyone aligns with another persons opinions so as long as they don’t discriminate trans people it’s ok to call them what the society/people general view as for example a trans person getting called their former gender isn’t disrespectful maybe as long as they treat lgbtq community as just another normal community with respect. Hate me if u want and just speaking logically ;))
it is tho? If your name is John and I call you samatha and you get upset about it, it would be disrespectful if you misgender someone whom you know will get upset; it's rude. it's not that hard to understand.
ZephyrLilith [#14]Well obviously, but this is literally an esports forum. I'm shocked people can call being trans a mental illness and emphasize traditional masculinity when they spend their time on an esports forum. It's very cherry picked
bcaus it is. it is in DSM–5 book. -sudan
Notbaka [#10]Misgendering isn’t disrespectful to some extent cause not everyone aligns with another persons opinions so as long as they don’t discriminate trans people it’s ok to call them what the society/people general view as for example a trans person getting called their former gender isn’t disrespectful maybe as long as they treat lgbtq community as just another normal community with respect. Hate me if u want and just speaking logically ;))
if you woke up in the body of the opposite gender but with your mentality, people calling you by the opposite sex you know you are but stuck in the body of the opposite sex, how would you feel? would you say the same thing? people dont align with your thought because they dont know what you know about yourself, trans people have every right in the world to be mad at you for misgendering them, you wouldnt like to be treated as a girl even though you are a boy but stuck in a girls body would you?
Patoow14 [#95]if you woke up in the body of the opposite gender but with your mentality, people calling you by the opposite sex you know you are but stuck in the body of the opposite sex, how would you feel? would you say the same thing? people dont align with your thought because they dont know what you know about yourself, trans people have every right in the world to be mad at you for misgendering them, you wouldnt like to be treated as a girl even though you are a boy but stuck in a girls body would you?
I watched freaky friday and they didn't seem mad at the misgendering
JesusisLord [#96]I watched freaky friday and they didn't seem mad at the misgendering
They were both women
Notbaka [#62]Ardiis is funny not sure bout his chat same with shanks , sgares good but my mind tells me he is a Asuna lover
Ardiis and shanks are like the prison wardens. They keep all the braindeads and children in their stream so its safe for us in every other channel
sameer40 [#37]respectfully vlr isnt the place when the avg poster is 92.3iq and gold 1
Gold 1 is a reach
That's so freaking valid. Sometimes to enjoy things I have to block out some of the online noise. Replies on vctwt, this forum, and certain chats are the worst of the worst. I think there's a space for everyone just sucks not every space is okay for everyone. Protect your mental first. It shouldn't have to be like this, and I'm sorry that it is. <3
TEHMANISDINGIN [#94]He is a good player though, maybe people keep talking shit abaut him cause his fans literally glazing him like hes the best player in valorant.
*she, her
cozylotus [#102]That's so freaking valid. Sometimes to enjoy things I have to block out some of the online noise. Replies on vctwt, this forum, and certain chats are the worst of the worst. I think there's a space for everyone just sucks not every space is okay for everyone. Protect your mental first. It shouldn't have to be like this, and I'm sorry that it is. <3
I feel that. The Clove release made me super happy bc there was finally nb rep(i am nb) and then people went on to always use false pronouns which ruined the release for me totally :(
ash_knuckles [#36]they do btw. Half the arguments are surface level and quickly dissolve into that
tbf (correct if im wrong) there are more "flor bad playin in farmer league not suit for tier one" posts than posts about her gender
posts than posts about her gender
Usually these posts appear during game changers when she was still playing in there, without OPs post i dont think i saw any posts that targeted flors gender
snowconedeity [#65]actually slop for brains the lot of ya. Comparing trans people to nazis and slavery like brother you are the mentally ill fucks who are so upset about someone being themselves you go on a fucking video game forum to froth at the mouth over one bad performance from a trans woman. this entire comment section just reiterates OPs point. We’re deadass just humans not conversation topics I guarantee every sniveling brat here would quake if they had to say this to a trans person irl. Shoutout to the goats in the comment section fighting back though but fr some of yall need to touch grass. trans women are women florescent clears you fucks and always will!
all the transphobes were attracted to a trans person and didn't know how to process it first
they aint gonna talk shit to some1 they think is hot irl
Unfortunately, trans hate is one of the number one talking points for the right rn. In gaming, where most people ignore politics or social issues because they aren't effected and are used to toxic in-game lobbies, they also tend to have little to no empathy or understanding of trans people. Valorant is actually one of the better of esports for them since they actually try to keep things civil and fish out some of the weirdos, but it's still not great by any means.
There are still many pockets of the scene that are trans-friendly though, which is a rarity for an esport. I would seek out and enjoy those, since you have little way of changing the minds of people who don't care or aren't empathetic enough to see reason
Patoow14 [#95]if you woke up in the body of the opposite gender but with your mentality, people calling you by the opposite sex you know you are but stuck in the body of the opposite sex, how would you feel? would you say the same thing? people dont align with your thought because they dont know what you know about yourself, trans people have every right in the world to be mad at you for misgendering them, you wouldnt like to be treated as a girl even though you are a boy but stuck in a girls body would you?
If I had been born a woman I wouldn't be offended by she. I still don't give a shit. If I woke up in the body of the opposite sex... Sounds like a joke about a hat. It's an impossible situation.
decidueye [#92]it is tho? If your name is John and I call you samatha and you get upset about it, it would be disrespectful if you misgender someone whom you know will get upset; it's rude. it's not that hard to understand.
Majority of the world would still call me John and according to biology and science I am a Man so people would call me a He , when it comes trans it’s hp about how we feel within so other people may not align with that opinion
Notbaka [#115]Majority of the world would still call me John and according to biology and science I am a Man so people would call me a He , when it comes trans it’s hp about how we feel within so other people may not align with that opinion
so if i call you samatha its not disrespectful? I feel you missed the entire point.
SeniorGoblin [#114]If I had been born a woman I wouldn't be offended by she. I still don't give a shit. If I woke up in the body of the opposite sex... Sounds like a joke about a hat. It's an impossible situation.
its an analogy you fucking moron
Patoow14 [#117]its an analogy you fucking moron
and it is a very real situation as thats what happens to trans people, born in the opposites gender body
decidueye [#116]so if i call you samatha its not disrespectful? I feel you missed the entire point.
It is disrespectful as u see cause I am a MAN and trans people they weren’t like that since birth they changed after a certain time so not everyone may align with that opinion , intentionally misgendering is bad but genuinely not aligning with their opinion is ok. If misgendering is that disrespectful then am not john nor Samantha call me a “cat” or Donald trump cause that’s what I want to be called
Notbaka [#119]It is disrespectful as u see cause I am a MAN and trans people they weren’t like that since birth they changed after a certain time so not everyone may align with that opinion , intentionally misgendering is bad but genuinely not aligning with their opinion is ok. If misgendering is that disrespectful then am not john nor Samantha call me a “cat” or Donald trump cause that’s what I want to be called
Except, according to you, it would be terrible to call you those things. See, you don't make any sense because we are talking about a VIDEO GAME where you can be called TRASHCOMPACTOR44, and people would call you that, so I see no reason why someone wouldn't call Flor by their preferred pronouns.
reremus [#45]There are bad men, bad women, bad christians, bad muslims, bad jews, bad whites, bad blacks, bad asians. The list can infinitely go on.
The toxicity of each of these groups of people are amplified tenfold on the news for clicks and impressions. I promise you there are A LOT more normal people compared to the outliers you see on the internet and the news.
Most of any group just want to live their lives.
How can I upvote this a 100 times
ash_knuckles [#60]ok ur sped so lemme handhold u.
rebuttal to #17 is his argument falling apart. the reason flor's supporters overglaze her is cause she gets so much unnecessary hate in the first place. anyone saying she's better than aspas is dumb LMAO, so is anyone saying she's shit
I mean flor's "overglaze" could plausible be from unnecessary loaded hate but I don't see this hate on vlr. I have only seen about 3 posts in which someone has actually challenged flor's personal identity, this is out of roughly 20-50 vlr threads I've seen in which flor is the topic of contention.
I mean just look at some of the comments in this thread which aren't even arguing against Lilith and yet they get a shit ton of downvotes bc they argue that a lot of flor hate isn't coming from a disrespectful place. e.g #2, #10.
Just from doing a quick skim read I can only find 1 post which has been transphobic - #20
If you are mentioning platforms like x and some twitch channels like shanks then yes there is a fair bit of transphobic comments but I can never find many on vlr tbh.
The mods could be deleting these transphobic comments before I see them but often I see these threads early before they get nuked
cned_best_player [#54]hes not wrong LMAO, people are saying shes better than aspas because of the gc tax 😂
It would make sense, IF the community didn't have a long history of slandering florescent and other trans GC pros for being trans. Whatever your beliefs on the topic, an undeniable truth is that riot made GC for all marginalised genders, and back when flor played in GC, a lot of hate was sent her way simply for being trans and playing in the GC scene. If you think all that hate magically disappeared, you are an idiot. The sad truth is that the community didn't hate flor because she was too good for GC. They hated her because she was transgender. This hate is subconscious for a lot of people, meaning they don't even realise that they hate flor because she is trans. There was never a problem with other players being overhyped but all of a sudden everyone sees it necessary to abuse the player for the fans overhyping her? There is definitely some underlying hate for flor there.
Zerphyr1 [#123]I mean flor's "overglaze" could plausible be from unnecessary loaded hate but I don't see this hate on vlr. I have only seen about 3 posts in which someone has actually challenged flor's personal identity, this is out of roughly 20-50 vlr threads I've seen in which flor is the topic of contention.
I mean just look at some of the comments in this thread which aren't even arguing against Lilith and yet they get a shit ton of downvotes bc they argue that a lot of flor hate isn't coming from a disrespectful place. e.g #2, #10.
Just from doing a quick skim read I can only find 1 post which has been transphobic - #20
If you are mentioning platforms like x and some twitch channels like shanks then yes there is a fair bit of transphobic comments but I can never find many on vlr tbh.
The mods could be deleting these transphobic comments before I see them but often I see these threads early before they get nuked
Do the people on twitter and twitch not count as part of the valorant community? There might not be too much hate on vlr.gg but it definitely exists on other platforms.
Zerphyr1 [#123]I mean flor's "overglaze" could plausible be from unnecessary loaded hate but I don't see this hate on vlr. I have only seen about 3 posts in which someone has actually challenged flor's personal identity, this is out of roughly 20-50 vlr threads I've seen in which flor is the topic of contention.
I mean just look at some of the comments in this thread which aren't even arguing against Lilith and yet they get a shit ton of downvotes bc they argue that a lot of flor hate isn't coming from a disrespectful place. e.g #2, #10.
Just from doing a quick skim read I can only find 1 post which has been transphobic - #20
If you are mentioning platforms like x and some twitch channels like shanks then yes there is a fair bit of transphobic comments but I can never find many on vlr tbh.
The mods could be deleting these transphobic comments before I see them but often I see these threads early before they get nuked
As someone who was here when the thread originally took off, the mods have absolutely cleaned up the thread since.
In particular, a number of accounts, including from memory, the account "Pistolroundvyseult" were contributing to significant attacks in the manner you described, and are now missing.
I imagine the thread, and #10 in particular, have survived because they are genuine expressions of sentiment that can and should discussed in a productive and meaningful manner. Much of this threat at the time of the Apeks game was not that.
I appreciate that the mods have gone to the effort of creating that environment instead of just nuking the entire thread.
unknown_trash [#125]Do the people on twitter and twitch not count as part of the valorant community? There might not be too much hate on vlr.gg but it definitely exists on other platforms.
My argument is specifically about vlr.gg since thats what this thread is about.
unknown_trash [#124]It would make sense, IF the community didn't have a long history of slandering florescent and other trans GC pros for being trans. Whatever your beliefs on the topic, an undeniable truth is that riot made GC for all marginalised genders, and back when flor played in GC, a lot of hate was sent her way simply for being trans and playing in the GC scene. If you think all that hate magically disappeared, you are an idiot. The sad truth is that the community didn't hate flor because she was too good for GC. They hated her because she was transgender. This hate is subconscious for a lot of people, meaning they don't even realise that they hate flor because she is trans. There was never a problem with other players being overhyped but all of a sudden everyone sees it necessary to abuse the player for the fans overhyping her? There is definitely some underlying hate for flor there.
Not disagreeing/agreeing with your point but I want to ask a question to do with "riot made GC for all marginalised genders"
If riot did make it for marginalised genders why are they now partnering with an event sponsored by people who fundamentally deny certain marginalised genders existences and end up torturing and killing them in their own country.
also, I genuinely don't think Flor is overhyped I think she looks like a duelist to the same calibre as Mada on NRG with the fragging potential and she has an amazing team supporting her, she drops good numbers, has good pathing, etc.
ash_knuckles [#36]they do btw. Half the arguments are surface level and quickly dissolve into that
stop arguing people
Bonkbonk201 [#130]Not disagreeing/agreeing with your point but I want to ask a question to do with "riot made GC for all marginalised genders"
If riot did make it for marginalised genders why are they now partnering with an event sponsored by people who fundamentally deny certain marginalised genders existences and end up torturing and killing them in their own country.
also, I genuinely don't think Flor is overhyped I think she looks like a duelist to the same calibre as Mada on NRG with the fragging potential and she has an amazing team supporting her, she drops good numbers, has good pathing, etc.
The issue with EWC is that it's likely different individuals that had the final decision. I completely agree with you on the intent of your points, but EWC is money, and GC is also sponsor money. It's essentially playing both sides. Yes, it sucks. But it's not surprising the suits of a company would be fine with this clash even though I can't imagine GC staff themselves are too happy.
Zerphyr1 [#129]My argument is specifically about vlr.gg since thats what this thread is about.
Fair enough. But iirc there used to be multiple threads every time flor played in GC on this site. The transphobia was really bad. I can understand why the OP felt repulsed by the users on this site. These threads often got banned within 24 hours but these types of people definitely exist and lurk on this site as well. Some of them may have been ragebaiters but some of them genuinely sounded like bigoted transphobes.
Zerphyr1 [#123]I mean flor's "overglaze" could plausible be from unnecessary loaded hate but I don't see this hate on vlr. I have only seen about 3 posts in which someone has actually challenged flor's personal identity, this is out of roughly 20-50 vlr threads I've seen in which flor is the topic of contention.
I mean just look at some of the comments in this thread which aren't even arguing against Lilith and yet they get a shit ton of downvotes bc they argue that a lot of flor hate isn't coming from a disrespectful place. e.g #2, #10.
Just from doing a quick skim read I can only find 1 post which has been transphobic - #20
If you are mentioning platforms like x and some twitch channels like shanks then yes there is a fair bit of transphobic comments but I can never find many on vlr tbh.
The mods could be deleting these transphobic comments before I see them but often I see these threads early before they get nuked
I think we've both just had differing experiences then. A lot of the arguments I see are ppl just hiding behind shitty premises. A lot of them start out true like
flor overrated cause shes only played farmer's league
This is true. But those kinds of threads quickly dissolve into transphobia, outing that most of these ppl werent looking for an argument in the first place, lol.
not everyone has to respect her pronouns
This is also true. However, to prove that you are in fact arguing in good faith, you either have to or just sidestep the matter entirely. Either of those are fine.
I don't even care abt either the upvote/downvote ratio or le gender/sex decoupling argument. The idea that gender is decoupled from sex and transient, disregarding it's legitimacy or otherwise, is fundamentally incompatible with the structure of today's society, so it will be divisive for a long time to come.
Anyway, flor is a young player, lots of talent, lots of room to grow. Only reason I commented on this thread is cause I think the conversation around her is incredibly boring, this post was getting a lot of traction, and I had nothing better to do at the time. That is all.
ash_knuckles [#135]I think we've both just had differing experiences then. A lot of the arguments I see are ppl just hiding behind shitty premises. A lot of them start out true like
flor overrated cause shes only played farmer's league
This is true. But those kinds of threads quickly dissolve into transphobia, outing that most of these ppl werent looking for an argument in the first place, lol.
not everyone has to respect her pronouns
This is also true. However, to prove that you are in fact arguing in good faith, you either have to or just sidestep the matter entirely. Either of those are fine.
I don't even care abt either the upvote/downvote ratio or le gender/sex decoupling argument. The idea that gender is decoupled from sex and transient, disregarding it's legitimacy or otherwise, is fundamentally incompatible with the structure of today's society, so it will be divisive for a long time to come.
Anyway, flor is a young player, lots of talent, lots of room to grow. Only reason I commented on this thread is cause I think the conversation around her is incredibly boring, this post was getting a lot of traction, and I had nothing better to do at the time. That is all.
I agree that a lot of people on this site do not respect trans peoples autonomy which is shown by arguments that are framed as neutral but are ultimately trying to undermine flors identity and her trans experience. However a lot of these posts are genuine criticisms which are in good faith and shouldn't be diminished because of a few posts are in bad faith.
These posts aren't transphobic in their nature but I can easily see how they can dissolve into a transphobic post.
All in all, I agree that a lot of the arguments are ppl arguing in bad faith but these should just be ignored and some of these people disagree with trans identity but are arguing in a respectful manner. I would argue that transphobia isn't just disagreeing with ones identity claim but doing so in a disrespectful and having negative attitudes towards them.
Just some comments I thought I would add but yeah I agree with everything in ur post. Also I think that flor hate mostly comes from people being pissed at how much love she gets from the val community even if she isn't very accomplished. I see a ton of posts talking about how flor is a top x player or is carrying apeks (definitely less common nowadays) and these posts paint flor as this new upcoming prodigy when she is objectively just a mid emea tier 1 player. So this overhype I think is mostly contributing to her hate, also the more love and attention a player gets, the more hate they naturally get, it just depends on the positive to negative hate ratio. (take aspas, demon1, and tenz)
decidueye [#120]Except, according to you, it would be terrible to call you those things. See, you don't make any sense because we are talking about a VIDEO GAME where you can be called TRASHCOMPACTOR44, and people would call you that, so I see no reason why someone wouldn't call Flor by their preferred pronouns.
I’m not agreeing with him but your example isn’t a great comparison. The majority of the world doesn’t have a problem with calling someone by their legal name and the majority of the world would agree it’s disrespectful not to use their legal name. Even in countries that don’t agree with LGBT. However not every country agrees with LGBT. And it gets even harder for non-binary people and language barriers. For example someone having They/Them pronouns just wouldn’t make sense in other languages.
So it’s not always disrespect but ofc it still happens and definitely on vlr.
Soddalele [#3]Ok but 95% of posts on this site is legit only ragebait
fr blud rlly fell for the baits, literally dont take anyhting on vlr seriously
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