Masters Madrid is a fluke (read)

#1

skibidiyesyes

Congrats to SEN and I'm happy af for you guys but this Masters Madrid was just filled with fluke competition (also 8 team tourney :/), Kick Off playoffs should've been double elim and SEN is proof of that considering they would've been out after losing to GENG in the Madrid playoffs, Riot really screwed up with this one in terms of competitive integrity and I hope SEN can actually prove that they're the best in Shanghai.

For all the butthurt SEN fans, this thread would've still been made even if SEN got 3-0 39-0'D aced every round. This thread still holds up even if SEN didn't qualify to begin with.

This Masters is by far the least creditable one so far with how big of an asterisk it has, even worse than FPX's ban for Masters Reykjavik. There's never been single elim playoffs for Masters/Champions qualifications for a reason, not even for LCQ. There's also never been a Masters/Champions event with less than 10 teams. Look at the logic please!

#2

uwukitten

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sen fans are not gonna like this one

#3

skibidiyesyes

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But it's literally the truth, SEN won the tournament thanks to double elim, and so many SEN fans tried to say that double elim means nothng :/

#18

skibidiyesyes

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SEN flairs downvoting everything when SEN themselves, literally by themselves, proved that double elim is vital to determine who's the best. Anyone going against that statement is literally saying that GENG is better.

Single elim = GENG are Madrid champions. What don't we understand?

#29

Reckoninqs

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Like I said, this guy is just a pure hater. No masters or champs was single elim, only event that was is lock in and people call it a fluke because of it. I've commented on your post that you direct your hate towards SEN.

#31

skibidiyesyes

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Kick Off should've been double elim... what don't we understand :(

And I've said it many times that I think SEN would've still qualified... :/

#42

Reckoninqs

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who do you think would have qualified then. In Americas loud and sen would still have, for Pacific and china its the same. Only region thats a question mark is emea.

#43

skibidiyesyes

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We'll see it in Shanghai because Split 1 actually has double elim playoffs, but you have to be stupid if you think double elim wouldn't have made the Madrid competition more faithful for everyone, SEN are literally champions again for the first time since the 1st Masters because of double elim.

You're treating what I'm saying as some sort of dumb excuse, the proof is there.

#59

Ultia

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So Madrid’s format itself is completely fine.

You’re upset about Kickoff regional qualification. I agree it should have been double Elim.

I still think if you eye test though, the only other teams that could have upset the ones that qualified would have been NRG over LOUD and possibly FNC over TH (unlikely given form at the time). GenG and PRX are definite top favorites from APAC and China isn’t even competitive.

I think your attempt to diminish Sen’s win is pretty sad. They undoubtably took the hardest route through both Kickoff and Madrid with the most rounds played and most competitive matchups. They ran an absolute gauntlet of teams and it’s disingenuous to consider it a fluke.

Kickoff: LOUD, 100T, LEV, MIBR, G2, NRG, LOUD
Madrid: KC, TH, LOUD, GENG, PRX, and finally GENG grand final.

The only reason why you’d call it a fluke is if you think there are teams that didn’t qualify but would have won instead. I think that’s bollocks. Only FNC would have a chance and I don’t see how they’d survive running that gauntlet given how terrible their form has been since they last placed 4th at Champs.

#61

skibidiyesyes

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GENG embarrassed SEN in the UB and lost to them 2-3 in the final... you are gassing up a fraudulent format dude. If SEN didn't even qualify at all then I would still be saying the same thing.

#90

Ultia

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Again. There’s nothing fraudulent about Madrid’s format. Double Elimination is standard in all major international tournaments to get more accurate placements of the top teams — it’d suck to be the second best team and get eliminated early because you matched against the best team first. This allows for rematches for the GF (BO5 instead of BO3) that’s balanced by giving the upper seed double map veto. That means you eliminate your competitor’s two best maps and/or force them onto their worst maps.

You’re mixing up the Kick Off Playoff with Master’s Madrid itself in terms of format. They’re two different events buddy. Even then, Kick off is less egregious than regions automatically getting an extra qualification slot for Champs simply because their best team won the last Masters — I.e. NAVI riding on the coattails of FNC. Nobody here is fooled by the undertone of post. FNC wouldn’t have won with their current form and Sentinels earned this trophy.

#94

skibidiyesyes

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If you genuinely believe that single elim brings as much competitive integrity than double elim then that's alright dude, but Masters Madrid SEN, Champions LA EG, Masters Reykjavik OPTIC, etc etc would disagree with you :/

There's never been single elim qualifications for Masters/Champions until now, take that as you will (also idk where that FNC name drop came from) :/

#100

Lorantula

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He is agreeing with you that double elim is better, but the saying the only way you can say Madrid was fraudulent was if you think FNC or Navi would have won which is debatable. Kickoff was flawed but SEN beat the top seed from every region except China. Wild to call them frauds/fluke.

continue thread →

#102

Ultia

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You’re misrepresenting me.

I never once advocated for single Elim. I’ve been literally doing the opposite, which is why you claiming that against anyone who responds to you is ridiculous.

Wrap your head around the fact that Kickoff and Madrid are two different events.
The only reason you take issue with Kickoff is because you think there are teams from playoffs that would have changed the outcome of Madrid.

There are 8 Options:
Americas: NRG and EG
EMEA: FNC and NAVI
Pacific: T1 and DRX
China: DRG and Trace

Now which of these teams have a realistic chance of changing the outcome of Madrid, thus making it a “fluke”? In my opinion, only NRG and FNC have a non-zero chance to compete for top 4 and even then they wouldn’t have survived the gauntlet that SEN did given their current form. Stop being so pathetic by strawmanning and take the L with class.

continue thread →

#62

ycstrip

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I think the fact that SEN had the absolute hardest kickoff route possible makes it plain stupid to call it a fluke.

#143

skibidiyesyes

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fluke was a poor word imo, should've called it fraudulent instead

#170

Pareekshith

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i can see that ass burning gas it up my friend

#175

squirtle136

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Then I don't think calling it a "fluke" is right....you can just say that the format was rigged and unfair

#157

Shizzle

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wrong bc finals always bo5, upper finals was a bo3 tf are u on about?

#180

yungbasel

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masters berlin playoff was single elim

#76

ohmpope

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i mean yeah kick offs format was badddd but sen beat every good team they earned this ?

#106

Rish_

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Ah yes fluke cuz Sen won. idc if u say that you would've made the forum even if geng won. It doesn't matter. by saying it's a fluke and that it should've been double elim discredits the entirety of Sen. Like what more do u want them to do. they beat 100t Lev nrg loud TH KC Loud again PRX and went into an IMPOSSIBLE finals game and won it with their best maps gone. single elim means that teams have to bring their A game or they get punished and clearly Sen played better.

And if u ask why Madrid wasn't single elim? Every single masters playoff is double elim. simple. stop trying to be sly and discredit this tournament run by Sen.

#108

skibidiyesyes

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Ah yes fluke cuz Sen won

re read the post :/

#158

Draymond_Green

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does this make Sao Paulo a mickey mouse tourney despite all the teams participating?

#186

instathot

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YES YES!!!! PREACH BROTHER!!!!!!! PREACH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#147

qwertyuiop123456

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Average guy who can't stand SEN being good again 😂

#149

skibidiyesyes

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"For all the butthurt SEN fans, this thread would've still been made even if SEN got 3-0 39-0'D aced every round. This thread still holds up even if SEN didn't qualify to begin with." you skipped this part :)

#176

qwertyuiop123456

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Average Gen.G fan crying since their region didn't get a single trophy

#189

stardewww13

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Average EU fans lmao, so you saw these guys achieve their dreams and immediately were so outraged that you decided to create an entire thread to discredit it and argue with people. You seem very popular lmao. Kick Off does not have to be double elimination. If your team is good enough you should win your games and qualify, if you can't you don't deserve to be there for masters. Masters is much more serious and more is at stake hence the double elimination. Just because your favs didn't qual doesn't make the entire thing fraudulent. Best teams qualed and showed out. FNC is washed and needed a revamp, evident by them almost losing to C9 lmao in the offseason. Navi is just ass, ardis being a fraud. NRG is a great team but still new and it was evident in there matches they didn't quite have the synergy down. LEV is just never going to go anywhere. Other then that APAC really doesn't have any other good teams and China was never going to go deep in this tourney.

#190

TheAceGamer30

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HOLY FUCK -105 downfrags 😂😂😂😂

#187

TheAceGamer30

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Get this shit -100 wtf

#5

skibidiyesyes

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bump

#6

AstroGalaxy

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if kick off was double elim they probs still make it lmao

people calling this a fluke win are so dumb geng have 2 map bans banning their best maps and they still fucking lose

#7

skibidiyesyes

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You're not seeing my point at all, it's for all teams not just SEN :/

#8

AstroGalaxy

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doesnt really matter, sen will win in double elim anyway

if you cant qual to the lan then idfk bro, fnatic have been a team for ages but they lose to a new team. NRG has 5 winners and they toss a map with double pistol and bonus

#10

WhoseTao

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dont feed it kkkkkk

#13

MakiXOS

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u act like being a team for ages is a positive, its terrible because everybody knows exactly how they play and knows a lot of their strat book

#14

skibidiyesyes

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You’re making no sense, single elim favours winners that would potentially not have made it out if it was double elim, this discredits the entire Madrid tournament heavily.

Double elim is always the best way to determine whos the best over single elim, and it’s why SEN got the lifeline for it and showed everyone that their actually better than GENG…

#48

symbols07

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you cant teach these people bro, they'll listen to what they want to listen and reply to what they want to reply. you'll get downvotes, so will i, but i think looking more generally you just cant deny how single elim favoured some teams and how it harmed the rest.

#50

skibidiyesyes

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It's actually insane that what I'm saying is a hot take

#52

symbols07

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its a hot take here and to probably any NA fan elsewhere. but to anyone looking to listen, its jjust a basic good and obvious take

#51

symbols07

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people were saying how t1 and prx was the real final.
we all know about fnatic, and possibly navi.
who knows who would've won between loud and nrg?

#9

TheAceGamer30

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The excuses 😭

#58

skibidiyesyes

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"excuses" ?

AceGamer 🤢🤢🤢 https://tracker.gg/valorant/match/a252f177-bb7f-461a-a353-65e2ba0aba74

#75

muzak23

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no way you found a bad game they played 2 months ago, i bet they feel real silly now

#77

skibidiyesyes

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He's a well-renowned clown on this site for his SEN meat riding and unreasonable hatred towards NA teams like NRG. That link I posted used to spread around a lot whenever he was mentioned, he has also admitted to being 11 years old lol.

#80

TheAceGamer30

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when did I admit I was 11 years old?? Bros making up shit

#82

skibidiyesyes

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How old are you then genius, you edited out the proof a while back. You will never be taken seriously on this site :)

#84

TheAceGamer30

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at least I don’t get mass downvoted like you 😂

#160

Anoymouse

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Let me change that.

#177

qwertyuiop123456

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your name is "skibidi yes yes" you're prob 9

#188

supersussyspedwin

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bro nobody gives two fucks

#11

Ryszafiell

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Coming out of my cave for a heartfelt bump.🥺

#12

Enro321

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real

#15

envyz

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its riots fault cuz teams didnt take offseason time seriously and scrim with their new rosters LMFAOOOO

#19

skibidiyesyes

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What?

#86

envyz

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you literally say this event is shit cuz FNC NRG and LEV arent in it and its riot's fault they didnt take offseason time seriously like the teams that were in playoffs cry me a river you are the most deranged person on this site its actually bad my favorite team didnt qual for the easiest event all year so it has to be a fluke event.

#87

skibidiyesyes

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Read the post again??? If you wanna assume lies then so be it idk what to say.

#92

envyz

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i see your posts all day baiting about how ur team isnt in it so its a shit tournament. LMFAOOO if your team didnt take offseason seriously blame them not riot dont complain you're a bystander a spectator enjoy.

#96

skibidiyesyes

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who's my team to you exactly...?

I've said it for like the billionth time that I've been cheering for SEN and I've rated Masters Madrid very lowly the second the KicK Off format released, so way before any actual results from any team came out. You're making up a narrative for no reason :/

#110

Ausam

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Bro dont act.Ur a sen hater or at least u dislike them.No reason to backtrack.Bros on that tmv type beat.Its fine for u to not like sen or whatever.But being crybaby afterwards just makes u look like a sore loser tbh.

#112

skibidiyesyes

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Back track? Would you like a link to a thread of me praising SEN way before Kick Off even started?

It's unfortunate that you literally cannot grasp the truth in that I'm not a rabid SEN hater because I'm speaking the truth :/

Again, read my post. This thread would've been made no matter which team VCT won Madrid. Wake up dude :/

#117

Ausam

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ok ill trust u.I am just saying from what I have seen from u the past couple days which were mostly negative toward sen.But yes I agree single elim is dogshit and shouldnt ever be a thing.But what can u do.Life is life.I just hate when people try to discredit a team by blaming the format.

#25

shaq_attaqr

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for fnc sure but the americas teams who got eg players literally couldn't because of the contract jail

#35

Reckoninqs

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I don't think its in their contract to not be able to scrim with any other team

#41

shaq_attaqr

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the teams weren't even sure they could get them until late december how tf could they scrim with them?

#44

Reckoninqs

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eg werent scrimming with them and all the other rosters were made plus kickoff started in february. the only org that didnt was nrg because that was the only way ethan and demon1 would get a team.

#47

shaq_attaqr

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dude this is massive cope, how tf would a team have a player who isn't even sure he can join the team scrim with them? They're not signed and they're not gonna do it for free. Idk why you're so committed to denying basic facts, sen won fair and square, all I'm saying is the idea that all the other teams were simply too lazy to work in the offseason is wrong

#49

Reckoninqs

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cope is not there bro. demon1 and ethan were seen not scrimming with eg and on the off season was rumored to be joining nrg because of either leaks or insider information. nrg was also trialed multiple people and even by flynn_vlr the rostermania guy showed that nrg hasnt made any moves with any other players. fns and vanity even know nrg were going to pick up demon1 and ethan months in advance.

#56

shaq_attaqr

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they're not gonna scrim with a team that hasn't signed them ffs, I know the average age on this website is like 14 but come the fuck on

#16

Alexsei

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im ngl if kickoff playoffs were double elim i think we wouldnt see sen, geng, kc or th at this event

#17

skibidiyesyes

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I think SEN advances but for the rest, no clue.

#69

Bald_man

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geng def advances

wtf prx would prolly not have made it tbh

#34

finnwithtwons

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geng, sen, and kc all would have made it you are smoking ROCKS
heretics might lose to fnatic but thats it

#20

Bluelive

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We Going Delirious with this one

#21

skibidiyesyes

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Single elim = SEN are gone, GENG are champions. Wake up dude.

#24

Bluelive

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That doesnt make sense lil bro. If you're saying that single elim means it should invalidate their win then All of the past Masters and Champs should've been invalidated because they weren't Single elim

While Yes Sentinels lost the first game, they came back and won with their 2 best maps banned my guy. They adapted and stomped GENG simple as that

#26

skibidiyesyes

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Are you stupid or are you actually stupid, SEN are better than GENG and proved it with double elim, if it was single elim then the worse team (GENG!!!) would've won the tournament thanks to single elim. My whole point is that Kick Off WAS single elim, and that discredits the teams that qualified thanks to it.

You are defending my point. You are arguing with no one.

#123

boarkejer

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Most intelligent SEN fan

#22

Number_1_Sheydos_Fan

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n4rrate being the MVP of the tournament despite being eliminated in groups is hilarious lmao

#23

skibidiyesyes

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wrong thread I think

#27

Nachtel

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Do you consider lock in a fluke too then?

#28

skibidiyesyes

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Slightly worse credibility than Madrid, also that's not even a Masters anyways.

#30

TheHardStuckImmortal

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#32

TheHardStuckImmortal

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FUCK WHY IS IT NOT WORKING

#39

valorant_player

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format it in a code block

#33

EternalWeeb

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COPE HARDER

#36

skibidiyesyes

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"GENG are the winners if Madrid was single elim" = cope?

#37

valorant_player

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But it wouldn't have been if any other team won... right?

#38

skibidiyesyes

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cannot say, but it's a certainty that the level of competition would be higher, and we'll see that in Shanghai because Split 1 actually has double elim playoffs.

#40

Nilonesia

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i love the stats and easy to access information on vlr
but fuck yall man

#45

fku

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keep crying bro, you were crying since day 1

#46

skibidiyesyes

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If GENG won then this thread would've still been made, what I'm I crying about exactly :/

#165

Hooferson

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its just not a fluke though, the would've still qualified, and madrid has the best 8 teams in the world, while having a good format, sen won, and sen won in a very respectable way

#53

j3bx5597

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JohnQT became what everyone feared. His eyelids disappeared, his head was swelling and his ears started bleeding.

"Are you okay John?" asks TenZ.

John responds, "I've never been better Tyson, I see it all now, they're not going A or B. They're going home."

#54

skibidiyesyes

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is this from CS

#55

j3bx5597

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no clue, found it on twitter

#57

skibidiyesyes

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bump for edit

#60

LycheeBlade

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you're really cringe for bumping your own thread twice like that

#70

skibidiyesyes

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It was an important edit that deserved a bump?

#63

liamo

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not you again

#65

skibidiyesyes

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Spreading the truth to everyone

#64

noHn

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you are so fucking cringe

#72

skibidiyesyes

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You made an account just to be toxic for no reason... that's pretty sad :(

#191

noHn

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nah i have reasons, i made this account to check stats and games when i cant watch them and unfortunately was graced with this ass and weird thread you created

#66

Klaw69

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double elim for an event that has no prize pool, no trophy... just 3 points for champ qualifications? Why? This is not last year with one regional league and one masters till champs

#68

skibidiyesyes

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masters qualifications deserves double elim... what are we saying.

#78

Klaw69

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Who made that ironclad rule? Also if kickoff had double elims then it should've also come with a prize pool and trophy... you get literally nothing for winning it except 3 free wins that you can farm in split stages. Also game/tourney rules are pre-made so teams should be prepared for what's to come... if it's one match from going home then they should just win which applies to all team so you cannot say it's unfair.

#79

skibidiyesyes

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So you think single elim brings the same competitive integrity as double elim and that GENG should've won Masters Madrid, PRX should've won Champions 2023, etc etc. You're stupid :(

Double elim deserves to be implemented for Masters/Champions qualifications, it's been like that since the first Masters :(

Teams aren't gonna be playing any differently if it was single elim or double elim, they'll still play to win, what do they get out of purposely losing? You're coping :(

#88

Klaw69

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Do you even read? This year's tournaments are totally different than previous years. And wdym by intentionally lose a match? Where in my post did you read I said that teams should play differently depending on single/double elim or lose intentionally? I said the "rules are pre-made doesn't matter how many matches to qualify they should've just win. You're the one who's coping living in your own delusions and assuming things on your own and putting words on people's mouth.

#89

skibidiyesyes

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Teams will always play to win, a single elim format doesn't change their mindset over a double elim format which is what you implied by saying "if it's one match from going home then they should just win which applies to all team so you cannot say it's unfair". There's no sense of desperation that will make teams perform better/worse in the moment, they will simply just play to win like always, you are spouting out bullshit dude.

This year's tournaments are really not that different from previous years at all too... Masters is Masters and Champions is Champions. This specific Masters Madrid is the only event that has a single elim qualifications format... Masters Shanghai has qualifications that's double elim... Hell this Masters Madrid might even be the only Masters/Champions event that will EVER have single elim qualifications.

You are too upset to understand what I'm saying :/

#91

Klaw69

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saying they should win whether it's one match or two matches = teams changing their mindset over format? I literally said they should win regardless of the what the format is. You're literally twisting words. Clearly braindead person. Too upset to cope? Lol who tf made this thread after being upset by riot for making single elim qualifiers to madrid? And looks like this isn't your first you have been making these kind of posts from the start, your whole profile is filled with these posts. I respect the hustle. So many bait posts to rile up the vlr community. Keep up lol

#95

skibidiyesyes

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80% of your reply is just blind hatred, shows what kind of person I've been arguing with :/

Facts are there and I've presented them to you, SEN wouldn't have won Masters Madrid if it was single elim, if you can't accept reality then so be it :/

#99

Klaw69

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Keep living in delusion. And you can keep spewing these nonsense, lies and hatred. Must be nice to get the attention you want by doing these. Also Geng would've won masters if they had just "won". Keep coping. And keep posting more baits.

#122

skibidiyesyes

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GENG beating SEN 1st time would've made them champions lmfao, that's how single elimination works idiot, them beating PRX then SEN = winners of Masters Madrid. Why do you decide to argue with people about a topic you have no understanding in clearly.

continue thread →

#120

Ausam

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this is just pure cope,I have been giving u second chances but bro this is just a crazy statement.

#121

skibidiyesyes

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Dude are you stupid, GENG beating SEN the first time if it was single elim would've KNOCKED THEM OUT. What???

#71

Insah

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just win bozo buy the sen bundle na on top

#73

skibidiyesyes

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So you believe that GENG should've been the champions then... :/

#148

Insah

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suck my balls

#150

skibidiyesyes

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childish reply bro :/

#81

zxieko

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To say that this Masters Madrid is a fluke would be unfair becuz it invalidates the hard work the current top teams did. The kick off event was very unforgiving, however, being the best team in the world should mean that you can win regardless of the format. Sen lost their opening match against loud, won against 100t and lev, to make play ins, and after they made playoffs, they beat nrg even though majority did not believe in them and won in a rematch against loud. GenG had a similar path, going through the longer road to get to Madrid, and they even went undefeated until the grand finals. They had longer and harder matches but still beat the top teams. Yes, the kickoff format sucked and yes, had the kickoff tourney been double elim we could've had the true best teams, but by beating the top teams even though they had to play more matches, Sen and GenG prove that they are deserving to be in the grand finals and called the best team in their own regions. The best teams in a competition can only be determined by the format of the competition. for example, in the NBA, no one really argues that the team who wins in the finals don't deserve the win because of the format of the playoffs, they accept the winner as the champions cuz they were the ones who worked hard regardless of the format they play in.

anyway, ill stop yappin lolz, I do agree that the kickoff format was bad, but it was what was given to us and the sen and geng just delivered. just give credit where credit is due, sen and geng worked hard for their placement and that's why they were able to qualify and reach the masters grand finals... peace... ✌️

#85

skibidiyesyes

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You really, really can't compare the NBA to this for a lot of reasons dude, they play a completely different game with a single big tournament with a playoffs format that has been the same for a shit ton of years. I get where you're coming from, but I'm saying it again that a Masters/Champions qualification event has NEVER been single elim until now. Take it as you will.

#104

MEgASp1kE

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Oh boy just wait 2 years then it will be even worse when there are 13 teams in every region

#83

sayaF

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i agree that kick//off format is shit but the fact sen won it and proceeded to win madrid as well should show that they are a team to be reckoned with this year

#97

skibidiyesyes

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I'm proud of them winning but I think we're overrating their strength with how bad the formats so far have been, hopefully they can prove to everyone that they're actually the best for Shanghai.

#118

AK3

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bro Madrid format was great Swiss stage + double elim bracket what should riot do to make you satisfy should they give every team 5 chances to bounce back to figure who is the best and well earned champion of Madrid lmfao + we can argue that kickoff format was unforgiving for the other teams but in the case of SEN bro they made it through the toughest opponents like NRG who's arguably to be the best team itw by the end of 2024 and i believe they will be the best comes the end of this 2024 season,,,

#98

DjOOII_213

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Madrid format was the best format valorant ever had !
swiis then doubl elim is literally the best format

#114

saeesh08

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how are you saying its kinda unfair for geng
they got their advantage for winning ub gf
2 BANS AND 1ST MAP PICK

sen had their 2 best maps removed

#115

skibidiyesyes

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Nobody said it's unfair for GENG??? Wrong thread maybe?

#116

cobalt21312

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i respect the bait ngl people actually bit it

#119

skibidiyesyes

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tell me cobalt who would be the Madrid Champions if the playoff stage was single elim, like Kick Off's.

#125

cobalt21312

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Why do you think an international tournaments playoffs should be single elimination? I’m curious

#127

skibidiyesyes

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I don't? I'm using the example to emphasize the importance of double elim lol. GENG would've been the champions if it was single elim even though SEN deserved it today, how do you not understand my point.

#132

cobalt21312

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Ngl I skimmed ur argument bcuz i didn’t care. Read it and in the end it doesn’t rlly matter. Single elim sucks I agree but at the end of the day sen was the better team to qualify for Madrid. Sucks for nrg, but I doubt nrg would’ve won Madrid. TLDR: Madrid isn’t fraudulent

#133

skibidiyesyes

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So you are stupid then, because SEN qualifying or not changes literally nothing about what I'm saying. Let's ACTUALLY read the post before replying because I specifically brought that part up already. TLDR: read :/

#136

cobalt21312

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“ This Masters is by far the least creditable one so far with how big of an asterisk it has”
All I needed to read was this to discard it dw I read it :D

#137

skibidiyesyes

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and guess what dude, that part you quoted came directly after this, "This thread still holds up even if SEN didn't qualify to begin with."

You clearly didn't read shit before typing out #134 lol. TLDR: read!!!

#138

cobalt21312

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I would disagree regardless of which team won

#124

Paraplant

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read this
https://www.vlr.gg/313182/format-is-good
also you’re saying that a team that has gone through all the qualification and proceeded to win (doesn’t even have to be sen) doesn’t deserve the praise because the qual process was “unfair”
even if it is less “significant”, it’s still a masters win and it IS deserved
by your logic Shanghai is not going to be fair either because teams only play half of the other teams. there is a world where one group is way better than the other but a team doesn’t go even to playoffs because they are placed against other good teams (but a team from the other group that is clearly worse still goes through). and in addition the first round of playoffs is also single elim
by your logic lcq last year was unfair and all the teams that gone through it were flukers because first couple games were single elim
teams feel like they can lose BECAUSE there is a lower bracket
if the first geng sen game was already the final the game would have gone different because teams have everything to lose whereas before they have safety
if you’re incapable of winning a game that matters the MOST you are not becoming a world champion
so teams that got eliminated at kick off playoffs lost deservedly because it was all or nothing and everyone knew that
now stop the cope and enjoy the win of the team you claim you love

#126

skibidiyesyes

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single elim = bad

all or nothing mindset changes nothing, teams will always play to win because why would they deliberately give themselves a big disadvantage. SEN played to win vs GENG in their first match, lost, and came back to win the tournament thanks to double elim.

Arguing against an objectively more faithful format is silly, Madrid is less significant because it is and that's what I'm pointing out. SEN deserved to win Masters Madrid but that doesn't mean the event itself isn't fraudulent, my point still stands. Why would Shanghai even be unfair if the playoff process of it is double elim which agrees with my entire take?

#128

Paraplant

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the first round of playoffs at split 1 is single elim
start typing the “shanghai is a fluke” thread now, save some work for later

#130

skibidiyesyes

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I see it now and that sucks, not nearly as bad as Kick Off's playoffs though since the best performing teams of a more structured group stage are actually given the chance of a double elim playoffs whereas teams like NRG and LOUD would've been gone from the tournament and qualifications after facing their 1st and only loss (which in NRG's case did happen).

#134

Paraplant

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i agree that it is not the best way of determining the best teams
i even say that in my thread
but you need to u need to understand the difference between a small event and a fluke event
shanghai win is going to be more meaningful than madrid and i think that was done on purpose
this event is smaller
but it is not a fluke

#135

skibidiyesyes

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Maybe the word "fluke" was used improperly, should've called it fraudulent instead.

#139

Paraplant

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it’s even less fitting lol
but fluke is a good bait tho even i fell for it

#140

skibidiyesyes

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Fraudulent is the word that describes quite literally my entire post regarding Masters Madrid though? Because of my format argument? Call it bait if you want ig, SEN would be out if it was single elim idk what else to say really. Kick Off deserved to be double elim in playoffs.

#141

Paraplant

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aight it actually is i didn’t know (not my first language mb)
but the thing is it shouldn’t have been double elim
because Madrid was supposed to be small
thats the point of my thread that i linked
i guess we can agree on this

#184

justRedX

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If single elim is bad, than Acend, Gambit, and Fnatic do not have the trophies they won in Berlin and Sao Paulo. 2 team region. Keep crying.

#129

bakedlays

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had to play nrg lev loud 3 times geng twice kc th prx, you can only play who/what is put in front of you buddy stop whining and look at your username

#131

skibidiyesyes

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format still sucks, didn't really target my point at all with that take. If SEN bombed out in the swiss stage then this post still holds :/

#142

Loomer

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calling it fraudulent is the biggest reason this take is not serious. it deals too much with "coulda woulda shoulda" narratives that at the end of the day didn't happen. complain about the kickoff format? cool! riot's changing it for the next year. does that equate to madrid being a fluke? absolutely not. the teams that won were in form at the right time they needed to be regardless of format and they earned their spot. thats it, prepare for shanghai and move on

#145

skibidiyesyes

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looking back at it with critique and stating what's true doesn't invalidate the results of the competitors within the event, but the entire event itself. We can move on and forget about it but that asterisk is there and will remain, it is what it is.

#146

cobalt21312

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completely agree

#151

Rokun

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Would you have said that this was a fluke win if GENG, PRX, LOUD, or even KC won it?

#152

skibidiyesyes

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"For all the butthurt SEN fans, this thread would've still been made even if SEN got 3-0 39-0'D aced every round. This thread still holds up even if SEN didn't qualify to begin with."

let's start reading posts from now on before replying Rokun :)

#153

Rokun

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Hahaha sorry

#154

Rokun

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I still have to match the matches though jwu

#155

MAHVEL

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Thank goodness we don't need Armchair analysts to qualify teams who just won a international major. Whatever kinda asterisk you wanna label this competition with, it doesn't matter. You have no credibility. Stop reaching. Also seethe + mald + cope.

#156

Chris_P_Bacon

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Why would SEN fans be butthurt when their team has finally won, well deserved win at that. Keep your irrelevant bum ass opinion to yourself.

#164

Rokun

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A win is a win and in the end, it's the victors that will be remembered in history nobody will say asterisk fluke win, it will just be masters madrid winners a few years from now.

#166

Phamous

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This dude butthurt lol.

#167

Brobbee

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This reasoning is flawed for a number of reasons:
Just because kick off was single elimination, doesn't mean the teams present were not good enough to make it. In sports we play the games because the best teams on paper don't play the best on specific days. Saying that Gen G would've won if the bracket was single elimination doesn't make it a fluke? The formats don't have to be consist from an international event to regional ones. Every team played kick offs and madrid under the same parameters, they knew what the had to accomplish and the "best teams" on paper should've been at madrid if they were truly the best, they don't lose because of the format, they lost because they were outplayed. Saying that this tournament is a fluke due to kick off playoffs being single elimination means that we can practically invalidate every event since just one inconsistency invalidates the whole thing apparently. Two things can be true, is the format flawed: yes. Is the tournament a fluke just because kickoff was single elimination: no. Sen are the best team in the world based on their performances, that is indisputable. This sucks coming from a G2 fan but we can't invalidate teams in this manner, everyone played each format, each team knew what they had to accomplish to make it to madrid and win, sentinels delivered when it mattered and won the tournament(s), sentinels (or any team ) winning masters madrid was NOT a fluke, they are the reigning best team in the world.

#172

Akyre

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THIS!!! W take. Dont mind that guy bro is just yapping. How can anyone believe or take this seriously from a guy named "skibidiyesyes" whose only accomplishments in life are on this website. It reflects what he is probably going through in life so its all good.

#168

DSGFan

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The kickoff format was bad, i agree. However, at the end of the day, if you want to win, you have to win no matter the format. By your logic, this tournament is more valid than lock in.

Enough of calling tournaments fraudulent. Wins are wins.

5/8

#171

laughingcoffin

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I do think that SEN would still win, given that GENG banned their 2 best maps and still won.

And no, the format isn't bad, since you have to obey the format of the organize ie. so teams should've given it their all when they play kickoff.

#173

Cromawarrior48

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its like lockin so doesnt matter

#174

TheAceGamer30

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COPE

#178

Tryeue1

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for once i agree with you

#182

TheAceGamer30

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Thanks

#179

SmartPerson

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that being said, one trophy in their hands 🏆

#181

qwertyuiop123456

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FNC lost to KC because they played the same way as last year, and they didn't adapt
NRG lost to SEN because Ethan isn't an experienced IGL, and had synergy issues (Watch platoons new video)
NaVi lost to TH since they got diffed my MiniBoo
DRX lost to Gen.G because Karon and Texture diffed them

This wasn't a fluke tournament, the teams that lost would have lost either way if it was double elimination

#192

TheAceGamer30

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I think Madrid is a fluke guys 🤣🤣🤣

#193

Akyre

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how do you have 7000 posts on this site 💀