japan looks so far behind since forever.. kinda feel bad.. what can they do??
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how to help japan?
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Syouta is more proven and valuable than whole 3 rid players. xdll and Clz were similar to the 3 rid players and not too bad. at least their stats do.
Their teammates make a difference too, Seoldam was the dominant player in the league and Joxjo is the most prolific winner. TENNN, on the other hand, came down from tier 1 because of vision problems, and GON is just a meme player. Nevertheless, the final was intense.
Also, whereas Joxjo's igling was a necessity for rid's performance, Clz is an igl. He's just ready to use.
At least on paper, it wasn't that bad choice. Weren't every Japanese happy at the time? Their hype was quite loud, like a decade-old wish come true.
And Japan has always had the second best environment in APAC in terms of the size of the orgs, the big tournaments, the tier 2 salaries, Riot's interest, everything. Since the game launched.
It took just three years for the LPL to go from a trash league that Koreans laughed at to sweep LCK. Before that, In my eyes, Japan is no different from the level of China at that time winning Worlds was easier than winning the LCK.
Bro you are even comparing china who has a very long history with mobas where is japan whos player base started playing with mice and keyboard maybe in like early 2019 for apex and even that, the majority of them played in console versions. its only when the pandemic started where pc games were gaining popular.
i feel like japan have the esports privilege but not the talent its because of the culture of their organization.
theres not a single game that japan is good at esports except for fighting games, even that is individual esports. their orgs tend to be pragmatic when it comes to winning and not as ambitious as korean and chinese orgs where they have the guts to import players just for the sake of winning culture
Forget the winning culture, they don't even have the "i am the best player" culture/mindset. They all play like chickens on Tokyo server competitive.
9 out of 10 games no one autolocks , which looks good at first but is also a proof that they don't have confidence in their pick.
I always play on Singapore server and on a 1v5 situation, 90% of the time the last player will try to win the round.
In Tokyo server they instantly run and hide to the other site on a 3v5 postplant.
Yeah if you auto lock and didn't perform they will talk trash to you either verbally or with some good old pinging. And they want to avoid that to be done that to themselves that is why they dont auto lock. Theres not much shown agressive toxicity in tokyo server like in sea but too much passive ones they dont say it in your face.
It's easy if you have patience. I have Ascendant 3 and Silver account, both ranks play the same way.
Just don't pick duelist or you will lose your shit. On attack, yourJapanese teammates will just sit on A main or B main until 30 secs remaining. Even if you get 2 entry kills, they won't enter the site lmao.
Gather the 4 or 5 best Japanese talents on one team and import an outstanding coach, then maybe there will be a great Japanese team. Language would be an issue though. Nothing can help the region as a whole. Esports isn't really apart of Japanese culture like it is in China or Korea. Current DFM is the best we're going to see anytime soon. Maybe the Riddle core is better than Fennel but I doubt they'd perform highly in t1.
The level of strategy that other teams in Pacific have has overtaken ZETA. ZETA on their miracle-run were relatively creative whilst maintaining discipline. Unfortunately, when your specialism of strategy is quickly overtaken like it is now, it's a very bleak future for Japanese Valorant. We can see how Korean teams are improving constantly and developing new strategies that work very often against many teams. Teams like PRX who look at a glance like they just run it down are very creative with their aggression and it makes ZETA very uncomfortable.
If I had to pinpoint their needed improvements, it's their willingness to risk-take and have those agent-synergies that Korean and Chinese teams have found. Vyselock has been so pivotal in changing how some maps are played. If Japan can find that sort of unique development and have deep strategies with it, they will be a lot more dangerous.
Beyond this, they definitely need to level up their mechanics. I cannot say exactly how the Radiant Japanese players weigh up against other regions, but on a bigger picture, Thai, Korean and Indonesian players seem to have a higher mechanical ceiling now. Dep looked good on Neon today against PRX, but it's not feasible to have one player who can take over a map. Syouta and Xdll showed some glimpses of greatness too. But as it stands, Japanese Valorant is a few steps behind the pack. The positive I can say is that this ZETA looks much better than last year's mess. Hiroronn being on the wrong role for the majority of the year and Yuran being the biggest flop definitely did not help their case, but the FENNEL reinforcements look so much better. They just need to innovate something and run with it.
ZETA Academy producing all the sentinels, but it's good to see him finding that improvement. He definitely needed some more Tier 2 exposure since he just had extremely poor decision making. Hope he continues to improve since I won't forget all the confidence he had in himself during the "Know Your Enemy" content VCT Pacific produced. I like confidence, but it definitely needs to be backed up by mechanical or tactical skill.
Learn F'ing english... The only reason goated player from VCJ like smth,jemkin,kr1stal,etc not playing on their team is their inability and unwillingness to speak and learn english.
Korean and Chinese despite having the same struggle as other east asian are much more accepting to learning english so they can easily adapt to other team/region (not like they need to import any player from other region).
not rebutting or anything but if a foreign player joins a Japanese (or any team with 4 local players in local team) team, it is natural for that player to learn the language that the "team" is using. Unless they bring in someone and decide to rebuild around that 1 player.
xcc had to learn Korean to fit T1 in the latter stage of his time with T1. All the KR players in JP tier 2 AND in DFM know Japanese.
not rebutting or anything but if a foreign player joins a Japanese (or any team with 4 local players in local team) team, it is natural for that player to learn the language that the "team" is using
Disagree, BOOM switch from Indonesian to English comms just to accomodate Dos9.. When jemkin first joined RRQ, despite RRQ have 4 Indonesian player they still comms in english instead of Indonesian. Again, its just Japanese unwillingness to learn any other languages other than japanese and shot themself on the foot.
Xcc learning korean is just his personality because when he was playing in Tyloo with BnTeT in CS, Tyloo was comm'ing in English but he still learn Mandarin just for them to be much more cohesive.
And when i said "Foreign" it does not mean like from other region.. I think a team like ZETA could scouted more cracked player from Korea, Indonesia, PH, MY/SG, Thai, etc and be stronger instead of losing without any map from kick-off.
It's not as if Jp has no cracked aimers, Riddle core hasn't been picked by Zeta or DFM, cracked jp players have been popping up. And there's no guarantee it would work anyways, English speaking roster in VCJ barely achieved anything other than Scarz ( 1 split and 2nd place ascension) and mind you they were using 3 imports. It's a management problem, not talent problem.
They barely achieved anything in Tier 2 what makes you think they will do better in tier 1, there's a reason why even DFM opted for Japanese speaking roster.
Forcing yourself to learn English while ignoring your own talent is what Scarz did, and they never achieved anything great other than winning 1 split and placing 2nd in ascension. If anything after that roster disbanded, Scarz just proved time and time again that English speaking roster doesn't guarantee you wins.
But, if there's one reason I'd like Zeta to learn English is so they can undertsand Carlao or Johnta, do that and they don't need XQQ to relay their message.
Scarz just proved time and time again that English speaking roster doesn't guarantee you wins.
Ofcourse English comm does not guaratee you wins but learning english is a good investment to any team for the long run because you could easily maneuver or adapt to any player that want or should join your team unlike JP teams where they're stuck only with Japanese and Korean who can speak Japanese.
Smth former team Sengoku Gaming never really in the top of VCJ at all but Paper rex still picked him up because they know that smth is a insanely good player so the argument of intl roster not succesful in japan does not really matter at all.
Japanese does not really lack of cracked player i agree but VCJ is a bubble where these cracked player only meet other JP cracked player while the rest of the world might be more cracked than them. Gyen are supposed to be this Cracked ranked player similar to karon but he does not really show anything during kick-off at all.
Stop the cap, Something is the sole reason why Sengoku able to come so far.
there's not really a bubble when JP is always an open server, even if Gyen does have exposure, he would still be a risky choice anyways.
Like I said Something and Scarz are just fraction of VCJ history, notice how English speaking roster are barely existent anymore, that's because teams know it has a very hgh chance of failure.
You're not wrong that learning English is a good investment, but that's not what they need right now. they need first on foremost is a competent management.
You're not wrong that learning English is a good investment, but that's not what they need right now.
Then the big question is untill when??? I really want to see JP team being good but honestly they seems lost just like when DFM faced RRQ.. DFM definitely has some aimer outside of MeiY but their play and strat are not adaptable so RRQ could easily just steamroll them twice 13-3.
Something is the sole reason why Sengoku able to come so far.
Then why no JP franchise team picked him from Sengoku???
ZETA had no reason to bench Dep's jett. ZETA finished 3rd in masters, grouped by LOUD but met them twice after beating BME.
DFM was in shambles since the beginning with their management anyway.
Honestly, if you aren't familiar with what went on and what is going on with JP scene, just don't comment like you are some sort of a genius and knows how to solve shit.
The aussie flag donkey guy also mentioned that NONE of the JP roster with imports did particularly well and only the individuals shined with their stats. Statistically, JP saw more success in regional league and international tournaments with full JP team. Their management was just god awful for so long
RRQ players could speak basic english whereas JP needs to start from scratch for most. 4 players + coaches learning ENG is more complicated than 1 person learning Japanese.
you said XCC learned mandarin to be more cohesive, xcc was asked if he could comm in Korean to have better chemistry since its a Korean org with Korean players and Izu had hard time learning English (he didn't expect T1 to be comming in English in an interview).
ZETA faced NS and PRX in their first 2 games. ANY team from any region would have had a hard time with those 2 games. ZETA picked up Syouta who is a crazy aimer from JP, xdll is a solid player and CLZ is a good igl. Bringing in ZETA is not a good argument.
Those countries you mentioned are "foreign" since they are not Japan. Its common to learn their language if the TEAM don't speak English. BME is a different case since some, if not all of them could speak English and their assistant coach is literally British
JP's decision DID NOT backfire.
RRQ players could speak basic english whereas JP needs to start from scratch for most. 4 players + coaches learning ENG is more complicated than 1 person learning Japanese.
Believed or not, majority of Indonesian actually does not speak english well like if you come to the capital Jakarta, you can barely meet anyone who speak conversational english on the street unlike other SEA nation like the philippines, Malaysia, and Singapore. But when Indonesian player know that they're going to be playing in the international stage. Most Indonesian would force themself to speak english because they know they wont survive without english. Famouz is one of BOOM players who's english are quite lacking but he force himself to switch to english so that BOOM can accomodate Dos9 into the team instead of forcing Dos9 to learn Indonesian.
you said XCC learned mandarin to be more cohesive, xcc was asked if he could comm in Korean to have better chemistry since its a Korean org with Korean players and Izu had hard time learning English (he didn't expect T1 to be comming in English in an interview).
Xcc did say that he learn korean so that he can comms better with his other teammate but its not a requirment for him to do so during his time in T1. If its a requirment then it does not make sense why Xccurate was forced to learn korean while Rossy barely learning any korean at all if T1 want them all of them to speak korean. Sayaplayer, Carpe speak good english already, the only player who kinda struggle with english is Izu just as you said.
BME is a different case since some, if not all of them could speak English and their assistant coach is literally British
Again, just like i said before.. Most Indonesian who already become pro player in any sport/Esport forced themself to speak english. All indonesian player before franchising comms only in Indonesian but when franchising start most team try to switch to english as to accomodate foreign player and so that when they're teamless other team might choose them similar to Blazek1ng last year in GE or Monyet when he was in GE and of course Xcc in T1.
rossy wasn't even playing by the time xcc was told to comm in Korean, stax was playing instead of rossy so it was 4 koreans and 1 indo. It was a requirement after rossy got benched and stax joined.
its not the same when some bme players know basic English and communicating in eng vs the entire team + coaching staff needing to learn a brand new language. you are ignoring some of my points and only taking in what you can find arguments for so its just not working out.
Mon could speak English well when he was in GE, and just look at how different t3xture is when he is back communicating in Korean. If a foreign player joined a KR team with 4 kr + kr coaches, they should learn Korean. simple.
language is NOT the reason ZETA struggled in '25
You are the one who ignored my point.. Do you think BME player + all the coaching staff born speaking basic english? Dude, Indonesia is not an anglo speaking country like the Philippines, Malaysia or Singapore. We speak Bahasa Indonesia not English here. They reason why they can speak basic english?? because they learn, it's not like god magically bestow them the power of "basic english". You speak as if normal Indonesian are granted "Basic English" while Indonesian are pretty much the same with Japan where the ordinary people barely speak any english in everyday life. The only reason why all Indonesia pro can speak english are because they forced themself to learn english.
Mon could speak English well when he was in GE
Yeah again, why do you think he can speak english? Do you think the god bestow him "basic english" again?? Bro, Monyet is Balinese so he probably can speak at minimum 3 languages (Balinese, Indonesian, and English). The reason why he can speak English? Because majority of Indonesian pro Indonesian player saw that speaking english is a benefit for them in the long run.
rossy wasn't even playing by the time xcc was told to comm in Korean, stax was playing instead of rossy so it was 4 koreans and 1 indo. It was a requirement after rossy got benched and stax joined.
That's like the last 2 game of T1 where its only like a week in between. Xccurate has been saying since the beggining after joining T1 that he's learning korean and nobody there actually forced him to learn korean. He's just the guy who want to adopt the origin team culture/language similar with his time in Tyloo. Nobody forced him to learn/call in Mandarin but he still learn Mandarin anyway.
who tf thinks "god" gave them english so that they didn't have to learn it? you ignored my point again when I clearly said that "language isn't the problem for the JP scene" and no shit indo don't speak English and they learnt it.
you still don't fucking get it. i replied for xcc because regardless of xcc learning Korean beforehand, he still "commed" in Korean. i don't matter if its the last few games. if you are forcing jp players to learn English, like the whole fucking team, why can't that 1 foreigner learn Japanese?
what makes you think that forcing them to learn English and comm in a brand new fucking language will help the scene?
if a foreign player comes in, 1 person learning the language is more efficient than the entire fucking team needing to learn the lingo.
language is NOT the reason ZETA struggled in '25
what makes you think that forcing them to learn English and comm in a brand new fucking language will help the scene?
How do you think why alot of Indonesian valorant pro become pro today??? Because they watched Xcc, BnTeT in CS and f0rsakeN, Mindfreak in Valorant played in the highest stage of professional competitive esport.. And all of them played in a foreign team not Indonesian team. The furthest JP team ever archieve in valorant is ZETA run in Reikjavik and that's like 3 years ago in 2022 and the star player Laz is already retired now. And how do you think why they all can play in a foreign team? of course by learning english. All of this helped the Indonesian scene to be quite matured because of star player like Xcc paved the way for other inspiring rookie in tac-shooter like Kushy to found his way into Tier 1 valorant.
if a foreign player comes in, 1 person learning the language is more efficient than the entire fucking team needing to learn the lingo.
Again, BOOM Esport and RRQ said otherwise. Learning english is a long term investment. if you expect to instantly win just because you start speaking/learning english then you are a fool. But by learning english you could become more competitive in sense that other international team could easily took a JP player find success outside of japan similar to Shohei Ohtani in the LA Dodgers who just win the world series and inspired alot of Japanese people and grow the japanese baseball scene to be mcuh more "international" and "competitive"
I think im gonna stop replying and we both need to agree to disagree on this because you already start talking with your emotion.
shit talking with emotion? you are saying the same thing over and over again when 3 other guys who KNOWS JP scene are expressively saying that language isn't the issue.
you are just NOT focusing on the existing issues of JP scene, not caring about actual points myself and others make but constantly weighing on "language". It just ISNT the main issue and it never was the main issue.
Ohtani? It was Ichiro who paved the way and inspired Ohtani.
you are bringing other sports that are impossible to compare it to esports, let alone valorant scene when the way league is ran are complete opposite. I see that you have ZERO arguments because you are repeating yourself over and over again without listening to those who have been watching JP scene since 2021.
dumbass who knows 1 thing forcing his opinion like he is familiar with the scene smh.
KR players study Japanese when they join a JP team to gel with the team. CN is in their own region so adding them to the argument is futile.
your words are really negative and making it sound like JP as a region has got serious stubbornness but in reality, DFM played RRQ who almost beat GENG, ZETA faced NS and PRX. Unlucky draw.
Sengoku gaming, BB, and scarz did not have any notable achievements apart from SCZ's run in LCQ. Individually they may shine but they always fell short to full JP or JP/KR roster who spoke full JP in comms.
Learn the F'ing english? how about the foreign players learn Japanese since the org is paying them + they are joining a JP team that only speaks Japanese
Learn the F'ing english? how about the foreign players learn Japanese since the org is paying them + they are joining a JP team that only speaks Japanese
See?? this is the type of mentality of why the JP scene are not improving at all.. Just because the Org is Japanese does not mean they should stick to only "japan". If these kept on forever then japan would stagnate and wont be improving at all into the future. ID team like BOOM and RRQ comms in english despite both Org are Indonesian. Talon is a HK org but nobody in the team speak Chinese, and if you see EMEA, majority of their team speak english with the exception of FUT because all of them are turkish.
When korean learn to speak english and Japanese, they become good at the game and they're sought after by many team.. MeiY is an insane JP player but sadly majority of team probably wont picked him because he mostly cannot speak english at all just like other JP player.
I think you mistook my comment for being rude but i really want JP to be good at valorant because it such a waste that japan has a big presence in Valorant but their team and player are not delivering at all. And the fact that you didnt see any trouble for japanese not learning english jusr proved that you and majority of japanese prefer to stick in a bubble and does not want to improve by playing and learning from foreign players/gameplay.
Umm... In Asia, the export market is monopolized by KR and Russia/CIS, who have proven to be relatively good at adapting to foreign environments.
In Korea, it's become an industry because of LoL, and there are agents and managers who specialize in imports, and English teachers who only teach pro gamers. If you want to recruit a Korean player, you can buy him like pressing the buy button on Amazon.
No one will choose a Japanese player when they are equally good. If he's slightly better, still he won't be chosen. He has to be very, very much better than everyone else to be considered. But in reality, on average, Koreans/Russians are quite better.
It's not easy to break through this. There has to be a change of perception, not only of the Japanese players, but also of the clubs. That's why I have some respect for Evi and Team heretics.
"Talon is a HK org" - valorant division is in Thailand and they were full thai until fr0st came in. NO ONE was from HK to begin with for Talon.
EMEA is a different case as they were already mixed nations to begin with and always had various nationalities playing with each other since the beginning of esports and english was generally required unless teams went full French/Turk/Russia.
wtf do you mean
"When korean learn to speak english and Japanese, they become good at the game". language don't make you better.
dont come in here talking about "sadly majority won't pick him". if a player wants to move to a foreign team, they will learn the language like how a lot of koreans did to get a move to JP. so IF meiy wanted to join another org (which he rejected multiple times already, even ZETA), he would learn the lingo.
you dont need to learn their language to improve and learn. didnt know termi could speak Russian, English, and Turkish when he adopted some of the tactics. Also, if you didnt know, ZETA has Brazilian and Ukrainian coach so that is clearly not the main issue.
2023
DFM - God awful pick ups
ZETA - Kept switching IGLs between Laz and Sugarzero, Tenn was not the same as 2022 but still won the LCQ and went to champs.
2024
DFM - opted to keep washed players (hate to say it) and did not change much from 2023
ZETA - picked up yuran and hiroronn, only to put them in a new role
2025
DFM - picked up akame and jinboong who were one of the best players in VCJ, brought in Art as IGL, gyen came in as a hot prospect
ZETA - picked up the fennel core. CLZ was one of the best IGL in vcj, syouta arguably had the best aim among tier 1 and 2 JP scene, xdll another solid player
ZETA had to face NS and PRX (since you just completely ignored my points) btw. didnt even have a proper chance to play against mid table teams.
DFM got a swift victory over GE when akame and jinboong got their form back, only to face PRX.
Kick-off is still in progress and we aren't even in stage 1 but you are already crying over JP teams. Language was not the issue, but the constant change of roles of Laz, tenn, hiroronn, yuran, and ping pong of igls with coach issues got the worst out of ZETA.
DFM was just straight up messed up in 2023 and 2024 in terms of tier 1 worthy talent in that year
You know what? I get it. I think you should just said from the beginning that people who support Japanese team just want only "Japanese" or people who speak "Japanese" in their team so this discussion could finally end because my opinion definitely wont change and so do you.
Lets just agree to disagree.
The thread ask "How to help Japan?" and this is my answer
I still think Japanese scene + Org can benefit heavily by learning english, but if you disagree then theres nothing more to discuss.
people who support Japanese team just want only "Japanese" or people who speak "Japanese" in their team
did you not read wtv the fuck i have been typing? You don't know what is going on enough to be typing all these shit and even when people tell you that it isn't the problem, you turn blind eye. It isn't about opinions but a fact. you don't change a fact.
just sounds like you have nothing else to argue because up until this point you still have not come up with a proper response to all my questions and arguments. Like all those words saying that "factually" language is not the big problem and you just don't give 2 shit.
- you don't give proper response to an actual argument with facts
- when you can't think of proper arguemnt with facts, you just go "well lets agree to disagree" after clearly stating the wrong point.
- if you aren't familiar with the scene, just don't force you shit down to people who actually follow the scene. you're just an uneducated viewer when it comes to JP scene.
- learn how to properly discuss, blindly ignoring actual facts and trying to validate your factually wrong opinion won't get you nowhere.
It has nothing to do with the esports scene, but just an off topic, younger players could benefit from learning a bit. They should only play HK instead of Tokyo. The culture of Japanese ranked games is a disaster. They dodge and delay decisions even in rounds that are only 2 minutes long. If you want to be a pro you should never get into this habit.
The funny thing is that the playstyle is the same from Ranked Games to Semi-Pro to Pro. Old Zeta had the most boring playstyle in the world, where the only strategy was to sit in front of the site and do nothing until 30 seconds.
In every other country, the styles of ranked and professional teams are dramatically different. Japan is the only place in the world where this is the case, which is what you can feel how strong their avoidant tendencies are.
That's just a given
Johnta's missing offline presence
Carlao had to cover Johnta ( his track record in Zeta is not good)
XQQ the interpreter ( Ik his role is AC but his practical job is probably just interpreter)
So your line of communication looks like this
Johnta
Carlao
XQQ
Team
Everytime the messages move from one person to another, the messages and intent behind them will be distorted
Just a theory tho. But Iirc this is how communication or messages move from sender to reciever.
I think to tackle this issue, the most solution is to :
- Get Johnta to Korea as fast as possible. this is the most significant step.
- Get the team to improve their english listening comprehension, if they can do this then XQQ is no longer needed.
- If number 2 didn't pan out remove the middleman , Carlao needs to go
2 biggest things are time and coaching
as far as i know japan doesnt have a big scene in any fps game other than apex legends which is pretty much the most different game compared to valorant while still being an fps game, they need new talents and coaches to come through and learn the game from scratch and get better fundamentally
for now, they should put their best talent in one team rather than splitting solid players across 2 teams and having a couple stinkers in the same team
Stop importing, accept to bomb the 3 next year and build the future on long term, import is such a short term plan that will sacrifice your future, I did data of number of team in every T2 region and it turns out that Japan have more Premier team than Brazil, they are totally able to be competitive with only Japanese player if they think longtermwise and develop their own player instead of developing Koreans one
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