My bad, didn't see your follow up comment until after I posted my response.

I definitely believe in PROFEK and Sociablee. PROFEK is like a smokes masterclass in a lot of his performances. Sociablee is pretty solid too and could probably get better in performance for Stage 2.

"Ranked ass comp" which won Toronto

edit: thought the original commenter meant NAVI's comp. M8's comp is lowkey questionable since Veqaj is the flex and he's playing the main duelist role.

I agree more so with the Mini claim. Alecks openly admitted that Victoria (his partner) urged him to get Mini's advice and Mini basically provided the agents that PRX currently play. In addition, I believe Mini basically made it a plan for F0rsaken to be a leader since the hivemind strategy needed some executive direction.

Now that the map pool is changing for Stage 2 with Bind and Corrode in the mix, it might be more difficult for PRX to succeed. They definitely need to address some of their much weaker maps because the EWC, Stage 2 and Champs will definitely eat at their mental.

Sunset, Lotus and Icebox will be fine to hard pick, but their Icebox was looking shaky vs. GENG and FNC. Lotus is also the map that they got comeback'd on twice. Bind is a map that PRX are pretty alright at for the most part, but crumble against NA teams particularly. Corrode could be a fun map for them since it's fast paced and could favour a Sage pocket pick. Ascent and Haven are the last two with some heavy issues for PRX - I feel like they are spoiled for options in the proven comps - Meta-KJ or Yoru Double Senti for Ascent and potentially double duelist on Haven. I know with permabans, teams will seldom scrim them, but I would want to see PRX to try and make Haven something competitive.

I see what you're saying since kamyk looked like an absolute bot at Bangkok. Some Tier 2 players are locked down in contract jail though so it is understandable to an extent why an org would take a player who had even a few Tier 1 games of experience to fill the role.

Some NBA Draft behaviour. Waiting for the next prospect and being first in line to sign them is crazy gambling even if it's probably between FUT and BBL. Xeus is pretty insane mechanically - his peak performance is otherworldly, but I feel FUT lack strategic depth still. Loita and Lar0k would replace ATA KAPTAN and Qraxs I imagine which would lowkey suck since those two players are core FUT players. However, it is undeniable that Loita and Lar0k would be upgrades in both positions especially since Lar0k can play Breach and Qraxs doesn't play this - it would free up comp flexibility for MrFalin.

I still can't help but think Loita and Lar0k would stay at BBL (go to the main team) and replace the non-Turkish players. BBL could also promote Rose since he has been IGLing the other two for a while and it would round off a full Turkish roster. But at the same time Jamppi can comm in Turkish a bit.

How do you miss the whole: "F0rsaken has taken the leadership role" narrative for PRX at Toronto?

Still can't believe RobbieBk got dropped that quickly. A rookie IGL needs time to settle in and he could have definitely grown with the season. Meanwhile, Zyppan being kept on until the huge overhaul recently is still shocking since he has had middling performances for a while. He's an alright flex/initiator, but I would have definitely had kamyk swap for Zyppan. Clickk, I feel bad for but he literally turned out to be the EMEA PatrickWho so it only made sense to bench him. Comeback is pretty solid so far but he is the best Turkish prospect in his role.

BPM is pretty cool to include. RIOT might see it as an unneeded cost which is why they don't opt for it, but I think it's a nice touch to see how players feel in the heat of a clutch.

Another valid reason. I have seen purp0 using nose strips a lot.

I meant my answer sarcastically. EMEA trophy last year was literally an arts and crafts project.

Just helps with breathing through your nose. Definitely feels a bit overkill for esports, but if it helps them concentrate, then let them be. Some players are probably mouthbreathers so they probably want to stop that.

I won't forget G2 icy on Bind vs TH at Masters Shanghai during the Lower Finals. 0% HS and getting blown out by a team with a sub (though Patitek was super-sub mode). 0 VLR rating is probably impossible since you would need to get 13-0'd and provide absolutely no impact in a match. There's not even an analogous argument you could make since in the span of 13 rounds, a player could somehow do some damage to an enemy which would earn them some Combat Score and notch up their VLR rating by like 0.02-0.05.

Very true. What Sylvan offered for T1 on their Bangkok run to a trophy was his amazing positioning and knowledge of the smokes agents. Sure, any pro could learn smokes to a degree where they can play it sensibly for most rounds, but Sylvan had pretty exceptional timing and reads using his utility as a smokes player. It was also evident that Sylvan over carpe was the correct call since carpe still had bad tendencies to over-aggress as the smokes player leaving his team to either push or retake without smokes. Carpe is probably the better shooter, but you need someone with very good agent knowledge to make all these set plays viable.

Question is whether DH can adapt to his role quick enough and have similar impact with his agent utility as Sylvan. The EWC qualifiers, albeit very limited, didn't provide much promise as DH wasn't fragging out like he did for the academy and his agent impact was on the lower end. We will have to see if T1 has cooked in this off-period before Stage 2. It would be a shame if they missed out on Champs despite having accumulated so many points from Bangkok.

EMEA Stage 2 2024 trophy /s

This is true. I still prefer Monyet on Omen - Jinggg is basically Monyet in reverse. Jinggg's Omen does have amazing impact, but Jinggg's tendency to overextend and overaggress sometimes lead him into tricky positions. Jinggg on KJ was nice, but I think PRX don't run that any more since it's probably too passive and boring for Jinggg. Jinggg's Battle Sage on Icebox is definitely iconic as well.

His Jett was alright. F0rsaken was the better Jett player so he would play the agent as opposed to Jinggg a lot of the times. Jinggg's Reyna pocket pick on Haven was iconic as well. I can't imagine him playing Yoru since something is already trained on the agent and Yoru is a very cerebral agent as you have to pay attention to your TP timings, placement and make sure that you are flashing effectively for the team. Jinggg is very much a tip of the spear player with his aggressive plays - Yoru could facilitate that but the agent is ideally used like an info-duelist especially in ult.

I agree. His agent knowledge on Raze is unmatched. The satchels and plays he does is so natural and effective. The movement tech against Heretics was absurd.

Jinggg played those agents, but it's nowhere near his Raze's level. His Reyna was pretty great on Haven for a period, but then PRX never played that map ever again.

Singaporeans got that bread.

On the one hand, true. Jinggg is an incredible Raze player - arguably best in the world. His Neon when briefly used was also good. However, you could argue Jinggg's major flaw is that he can only play Raze, Phoenix and Neon well. In my opinion, the best duelist should be able to play any duelist agent and fry hard on them. That way you have objectively good map flexibility.

In terms of "all-time", you could have put Aspas, but that Toronto all-time low has got to be the biggest fall-off. I think t3xture could be in the conversation since he has been popping off insanely on so many duelist agents. Derke has been a beast for a long while. Kangkang has insane peak performances. I would still have Jinggg in the conversation since his Raze is undeniably amazing to watch.

Monyet literally won Stage 1 with RRQ and beat PRX in region. Sure it was whilst they abused the Tejo meta, but Monyet had a fair chance with his team to make a run and they did not at Toronto. Also, that is a big "what if" to compare if PRX continued with Monyet vs. how they continued with Jinggg. Monyet is a good player but he definitely wasn't as strong as Jinggg on Raze. Monyet was more flexible though so it enabled different comps. Though even with Monyet's flexibility, PRX would have probably struggled with roles and the "IGL" dilemma which was only resolved when Mini started advising Alecks how to structure PRX.

What role is hfmi gonna play? I am checking his VLR and his most recent stuff is either scan initiator, sentinel or off-pick agents like Gekko or Raze. He hasn't played a lot of Breach or KAYO which is what they were trying to replace after benching s1mon. He hasn't ever played Yoru as well which I believe was the agent that EDG wanted s1mon to learn. I am sure hfmi is great and could still learn but it definitely feels like a question mark for me.

This lowkey sad

Lowkey agree with original poster to an extent since Valyn's attitude can be hit or miss. You either love him or you hate him. I don't mind having a winner's mentality but you need to back it up on stage. Undoubtedly G2 were the favourites going in since they have the most dialled in strategic Valorant with a team full of aimers. However, it seems like they lost some of their quality by trying to streamline their comps into playing the same agents on as many maps.

Now, it is facts that G2 will more than likely dominate in Americas for Stage 2. Every other Americas team asides maybe Sentinels has a major flaw holding them back from being serious contenders for the regional trophy or many minor flaws that are piling up. I will however disagree with Valyn's claims that nobody remembers Masters as much as Champs because people will often remember the storylines of teams in the tournament. Some of these Masters events have the most insane storylines that make them memorable.

Big true. This was also just as Jinggg rejoined the team so they were rocky in the beginning but rode momentum very well

-jawgemo +shanks
-valyn +fns
-jonahp +artzin
-leaf +moose
-trent +mwzera

All jokes aside though, G2's map veto against FNC was pretty questionable. Understandable to target ban Ascent where FNC look strong on their new comp but picking Lotus into arguably the best team on Lotus has got to be one of the most confusing gambles. G2 definitely have a good Lotus but their comp is still nowhere near as viable as alternative comps. G2's Lotus was at its best when JonahP was on Viper and Leaf was hard sentinel - you have to wonder why they don't just revert to this comp seeing as JonahP and Leaf have their best performances on these roles in other maps.

Split was a massive disaster for both teams. G2 should have lost the first pistol, but trent is trent. I don't care if people keep riding on that he is a Tejo merchant, clearly not if he is putting up Top 5 performance ratings in the whole tournament playing Fade/Sova. Both sides kept playing way too tight on the clock or way too fast. You could make tons of what-if's and say the score could have been 13-X to whatever team if something happened. Split felt way too messy to say whether G2 could have won that out in another timeline. It really felt like their strategies were all over the place whilst FNC's Chron and Alfajer were having some of the craziest performances of the tournament. It's to the point where Alfa is rising in contention for an MVP.

Overall, I think G2's major fix is their comps. They really ought to fix JonahP's roles since his Breach has not been as great whilst his Viper is promising. Leaf as a hard sentinel on most maps except for Split which is going to be leaving the map pool anyways. And Jawgemo's performances might have been bad lately, but I have trust in his quality - I think they need to let him branch out his duelist pool so he can play Raze more often. G2 definitely took a huge setback after the Tejo nerf, but that's not really affecting the one who played the agent.

It seems like people have different criteria as to what makes a player the GOAT. If you take a real sports example, people call Michael Jordan the GOAT in Basketball (his success was with the Chicago Bulls), as well as Messi and Ronaldo respectively being GOATs in Football (their major success came in Barcelona and Real Madrid respectively). You can hold major success in one team and be the GOAT as long as it's for a long enough time to be consistently great. You can't be a one-season wonder and dubbed the GOAT.

Of course, with esports, it's a bit different since the minutia of skill in that game can mean a world of difference. It's why you have a game like Rocket League where the GOAT can include one-team legends like Jstn as well as Turbopolsa who won multiple titles across different teams - the latter would fit your criteria. At least for Valorant, I think the main demand to be in the GOAT conversation is the player's individual impact must be consistent and high - it's why Aspas has been in the conversation for so long despite not winning a trophy since his LOUD days.

Chronicle on FNC is the swiss army knife for the team. I think being a flex player is the hardest role since you fill in what the team wants. On the other hand, Chronicle has never been extremely standout when you have Leo and Alfajer on your team. You can swing either way on how Chronicle's GOAT criteria score can be buffed or debuffed based on his circumstances. Overall, I think Chronicle deserves a place in the GOAT conversation as he is a quality flex player with the most trophies currently.

BAN ICEBOX, GENG GOT SUCH A BAD TRACK RECORD OF THIS MAP IN BIG GAMES

Heretics literally lost two grand finals at internationals last year. You're either the best team at the event or you're a loser. Toronto and Madrid, they just didn't show up mentally.

I would personally want FNC to win Champs because it would mean they complete their trophy cabinet. G2 winning Toronto would make sense especially since they have the only Canadian representative. SEN at the bottom is fair, but I can see them going far with how much they punish other teams.

Fair play for giving a source, but you have to be critical here: that's 2.5 years ago in an off-season tournament. He has since switched to scan-initiator where he is a lot more comfortable and impactful on the role. He can play Breach and KAYO, but that doesn't mean he should. Role-swapping even between scan and flash initiators takes a fair bit of adjustment since you have to use very differing styles of utility. Even if Kr1stal were to rejoin XLG in this hypothetical, he would more than likely be playing Sova/Fade like he did in Ascension. It's the agent pool he is most comfortable on especially as an IGL.

Unfortunately G2 just collapsed in on themselves vs. PRX and it was still fairly close. SEN seem to be dialled in and I can see them winning against PRX. PRX wins if they can keep their micro-details in the round correct, clearing space properly and pushing as a team, but they lose pretty badly if they underestimate Bang or Zellsis in the clutch.

Tell me the last game Kr1stal played Breach or KAYO in a pro match.

Kr1stal plays completely different initiators to S1mon. Kr1stal is a Scan-init and S1mon is a flash-init.

Double spite since apparently it was EDG fans that bullied YOU out of XLG by dredging up his old matchfixing allegations

Bare in mind that YOU was the one to majorly set up his team so of course when you remove such an impactful player, your team is gonna take more reckless, uncalculated fights. On top of that, XLG basically set themselves up for failure in the name of entertainment by picking Sentinels who were looking like the 2nd best team out of the playoffs and continue to ramp up with depth in the tournament. XLG basically fought 2 of the best teams back to back as opposed to taking the easy route of facing Wolves who they have a good historical matchup again.

XLG is definitely bad, but you can likewise make this point with how EDG capitulated without S1mon in Stage 1. Is EDG therefore bad? You can argue so, but you jump straight to a conclusion before you consider how valuable a lot of these support roles are. T1 using Carpe instead of Sylvan looked diabolical at Bangkok. As soon as you have Sylvan, you have someone who can use smoke util effectively and position himself to support his team well. Likewise XLG's YOU was always providing supporting impact to make Rarga look like a demon taking 3ks like it was nothing.

The TL comparison is a bit half-baked since their IGL literally rejoined the team after 1 game. It's not like they played their elimination match without Nats. The PRX comparison is a bit more warranted, but PRX in 2023 were insanely strong compared to the world. Their style of Valorant was still difficult for a lot of teams to adapt to.

Ooooor, acquire S1mon who is benched by EDG

Big facts, it's a shame that he left because of opposition fans dredging up old allegations that he served a ban for already. He really helped Rarga and the team with his precise util in China. Who knows how much better XLG could have been with their dedicated flash initiator. This is perhaps a little hopeful, but XLG could get S1mon given his track record on Breach and KAYO has been great and he is currently ousted from EDG.

Didn't know Midi was playing Harbor

Thank you, he's been amazing in Stage 1. Just a shame that LOUD were narrowly losing their maps and series. Him and Pancada were going absolutely crazy. Hopefully Stage 2 might have some greater promise.

I think G2's comps are fine. A lot of their mistakes seemed to be more minute rather than a macro issue such as how an agent's util affected their plays. Though, if you really wanted G2 to shift their comps, I would put JonahP on Viper, an agent he has had success on especially on Lotus, and have Leaf play Vyse/Killjoy/Cypher on more maps. G2 ran these sorts of agent comps last year and it offered some stable success despite their duelist being mid-tier in quality.

JonahP has been more than fine on Breach/KAYO in the past. The performance against PRX is definitely one of his worst to this day. Also, Trent was pretty solid on Sova/Fade before Tejo. His agent knowledge is pretty amazing but the rest of his team seemed to be getting diffed by one or two players consistently.

FNC not famous for comebacks... looks at their Lock-In Trophy. Also, Number_1_Hater is not blaming FNC, they're blaming the tech pauses so you can chill on putting words in another person's mouth. GENG definitely could have closed it out 2-0, but as I saw it, GENG were getting too ahead of themselves on a few occasions and squandered a few man-advantage rounds. t3xture also got picked by kaajak so often in the tail end of that map.

The format will have some questions on whether it's any good after this tournament. Your arguments against the buy are mostly valid such as nerves, not being used to equipment and the expectations being high. However, being warmed up is a matter down to them. Sure, Swiss Stage warms up your stage performance, but at a professional level, you should be able to warm-up before any match to have that mental arousal in-game.

As for not being used to the new meta in officials, anything can go right or wrong on the day on-stage. Teams will have been scrimming for hours a day to adapt to the new meta and develop a new playbook for their comps. And you have to remember that there was a solid 2-4 weeks buffer time from the Stage 1 grand final - of course, you can argue most teams won't be using all this time to develop strategies, but there is nevertheless ample time to practice new things.

The meta is actually so open now so anything can work as long as you have confidence in the agent synergy. It's not like certain teams are late to the party in going with the meta since anything can work if you have success in your scrims using a certain comp.

Lastly, the fact that #1 seeds can pick their opponent is a huge advantage since they can VOD review their opponents on every map they play in swiss to develop an anti-strat. 4-9 maps of gameplay is quite valuable to base your veto especially if you've got a deep map pool like G2. Serot mentions XLG trolling their pick and on paper it is what it is, but XLG have a bigger issue where they lost their key flash initiator player. YOU's assists and util to set up Rarga was actually huge and that's something that cannot be replaced easily. I feel bad for them since YOU left/was released for allegations from years ago (matchfixing which he upheld his ban for back then).

For me, I see it as:
Duelist: Kaajak/Keiko/t3xture
Initiator: Kushy/Verno/Trent
Sentinel: Chichoo/Cortezia/Lukxo
Controller: F0rsaken/Karon/Bang
IGL: nAts/Munchkin/valyn

I put 3 candidates since you can make a huge argument for any of these options in their raw aim talent currently

The format will have questions drawn about it, but the buy into the playoffs is still somewhat advantageous since teams have a chance to VOD review opponents and develop strategies to counter it. The downside of course is not having stage practice, but you could counterargue that teams are already scrimming enough to practice new comps after the meta change. I do think the meta change timing was a bit poor, but there's not a lot that can be done in hindsight.

PRX came into Toronto being somewhat dark horse APAC reps since they took RRQ the full 5 maps in a Tejo-dominant meta. GENG look revitalised and probably even surpassing peak Shanghai performance. Sentinels had the easiest #1 seed since XLG lost YOU who was key in providing Rarga a lot of assisting util. Wolves is probably the biggest dark horse since they just keep ramping up their quality - my one gripe with them is that their defense is shaky.

Lysoar is a sentinel player. He's more of a defensive flex with Spring being more of a primary smokes player. I will say that if Wolves had a Chichoo level defensive flex, they would be extremely promising.

🧍‍♂️

If you're telling him to get a haircut now, boy do you not want to see what he looked like when he started off. His hair was out of control