GOAT of Every Agent

#1

Yuh_aye

Group 1 - Non-Debatable

Chamber - Yay
Jett - Aspas
KAYO - Ethan
Clove - Smoggy
Viper - Less

Group 2 - Pretty Clear

KJ - Less
Yoru - Meteor
Raze - Jawgemo
Reyna - Something

Group 3 - Somewhat Debatable

Neon - KangKang
Brimstone - Demon1
Gekko - Sacy
Fade - Shao

Group 4 - Debatable

Astra - Karon : a toss-up where alot of people could be argued, but imma go with Karon here. Great Util + Great Aim + Trophy.
Omen - Marved : Like I said above, alot of people could be here. But that boy Jimzo was the Iceman for a reason. Go back and watch those vods
Cypher - Alfajer : Don't know why they ever put him on breach
Phoenix - Scream : He used to hardcarry liquid on this agent back in the day lol, his main competition imo is the guy who knifed him
Harbor - Tuyz : Mazino, Valyn, and Mr Cove would also be viable picks, but gotta give it to the OG
Sova - Sacy : Its either him or Leo, but being world class (proven with trophies) for 2 separate years and his performance in Champs finals sealed the deal for me. Leo prob takes it next year, but for now I gotta give it to the baldfather - LLL Sacy.
Skye - Ethan : Could be ALOT of people. But the play where he fakes the flash on Bind from hookah to CT for Com lives rent free in my head
Breach - Stax : Could also be ALOT of people, this is probably to hardest agent to decide, but imma just give it to the OG

Group 5 - No GOAT

Iso - prob Alfajer but too early to name a GOAT
Vyse - Too early to name a GOAT
Deadlock - Too early to name a GOAT
Sage - its just whoever is shooting bruh. Lowest skill ceiling in the game. I'm not naming anybody the goat sage its kinda ridiculous (probably d4v41 though)

#2

GambleNats

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T_T

#5

Yuh_aye

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You can still have Nats as ur goat bro, that's why its in "Debatable"

#9

GambleNats

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my main problem is the lack of mako. nats hasnt made an international lately so picking alfa isnt that bad even if I disagree. but mako? cmon man no ways old man retired marved and rookie karon is better than one of the most consistent players ever. dude has been a beast his entire career. Sacy over leo is also diabolical

#15

Yuh_aye

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Mako has never been to a final. Marved went to 3 and won a trophy.

Sacy over Leo is by no means diabolical. Leo is phenomenal but don't get amnesia about Sacy.

#19

GambleNats

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Sacy had a very good year in 2022 I agree but thats practically it. in 23 he was just bad and 24 he was middle of the pack.

also trophies dont just depend on indiviudals, it requires good teams, having that as a basis and not having it be performance based is silly especially with how poor marved played in 23 and 24.

#30

Yuh_aye

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I can't in good faith put Mako as the GOAT over Marved (or others) when he doesn't even have a finals appearance and others have trophies

And its not like those DRX teams were bad teams (Ask FPX).

You can disagree, that's why its in 'Debatable'.

#3

JMZxp

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Sova - Leo by miles

#10

Dreoxx

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agreed. sacy and leo shouldn't be put on the same level on sova.

#12

dort

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c0m exists brother

#14

Dreoxx

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cool but dude's main selling point is that he lurks

mechanics leo >>> c0m
teamplay leo > c0m
setplay leo <<< c0m
util leo = c0m
clutch leo >= c0m

#18

dort

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c0m clears in all of those

#20

Dreoxx

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clearly you clear c0m and leo combined in baiting

#22

dort

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ill take that as a compliment

#45

finnwithtwons

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c0ms util is definitely > leo's on sova, but otherwise agree, leo better

#57

british

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c0m on leviatan would struggle to have a game where he went positive in stage 1

NOT the goat

#66

BalkanSigma78

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bahahaha UTIL LEO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CUM

#11

Yuh_aye

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'by miles' is fanboy behavior. Either way you choose its close

#68

zfmarvin42

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Sacy was Leo before Leo was him

#4

kanyefan4238173

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When did Ethan champs mvp like my king zeek

There’s no way that’s not debatable. Zeek was the best kayo itw in 2021 and he won a champs and mvp with it

#7

Yuh_aye

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Hiko was a top pro at that time

#13

kanyefan4238173

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Didn’t even play that event. ‘Top’ is definitely used loosely

And I’ll be able to say the same about any of these players in 3 years

#21

Yuh_aye

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You know some people say they didn't even deserve that win

Nobody says that about EG

#24

kanyefan4238173

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You can’t be taking vlr baiters seriously. They will tell you that Reykjavik, Berlin, champs 21, Reykjavik 22, lock in, and madrid were all mickey events

The truth is the winner won. Every winner was deserved

#31

Yuh_aye

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Even if you disregard a somewhat valid complain about Acend's win,

If you are gonna crown Zeek the GOAT Skye for MVP'ing champs in 2021 while playing Skye, you would have to crown TenZ as the GOAT Jett for absolutely lighting the world on fire a little earlier. But of course nobody does that, past events have to be discounted, especially if the level of play is miles behind current standards. The difference between 2021 and now is a lot bigger than the difference between now and 2028 is gonna be.

#32

kanyefan4238173

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I didn’t say goat Skye I said goat kayo. It’s crazy you said it’s clear as day as if Ethan is at the level of an aspas or a yay.

Ethan isn’t aspas and kayo isn’t Jett so that example doesn’t work very well. There is a lot stronger competition for Tenz and his Jett than there is for zeek and his kayo

And of course I’m gonna disregard it lmfao, why would I give myself a coper mentality. I could say that if Fpx were able to play Reykjavik yay would never had won a trophy, but he did, and he won it. Beating out everybody who did play

#34

Yuh_aye

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Whoops I don't know why I read that as Skye

Yeah if you think anybody is a better KAYO than Ethan you are delusional. That shit is not up for debate lmao.

#46

kanyefan4238173

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Lmk when Ethan mvps an event

It’s not like either player had great longevity so why look at more than their peak performance

#50

Yuh_aye

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Listen its all good to support your countrymen and all that but get a grip bro

continue thread →

#6

WatsomN

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Didn't nats popularize his viper playstyle which many pro took inspiration from? Especially his bind A short toxic screen, yes he might be not the best in terms of frag but his gameplay was a pioneer.

#8

Dreoxx

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pioneer ≠ GOAT

#16

saebr

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Good picks. though sacy gekko is a little strange, gotta be some better choices for gekko. i'd probably give that to something too for lack of remembering anyone else who plays gekko. or riens maybe but he's a little newer

#17

smthlikeyou11

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smth reyna should be in pretty clear
edit: now that i think ab it i dont think its personally debatable even

#86

Yuh_aye

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upon further reflection I think you're right. updated it

Good call

#23

StutterSt3p

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idk I think jinggg > jawgemo raze, at least it's debatable for sure. If we're going in terms of actually how good they were at the agent, sugarz3ro gotta be up there for Astra. I feel like jawgemo has to be considered for best neon, even with the small sample size, simply for his movement alone. Also, cypher is nAts and that's fairly clear in my opinion, but not a bad list though.

#25

reaper_rega08

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More Non-Debatables :
Cypher - Benjyfishy
Iso - Alfajer
KJ - Alfajer( you might disagree)
Astra - SugarZero

#35

Yuh_aye

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https://youtu.be/GCTvdm4XF4Y?si=CSDcb6I1_iVbCsrA

#58

reaper_rega08

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https://youtu.be/xvFZjo5PgG0?si=SashlO8-5MtkdUms

#26

zephyrara

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i think jinggg shld be raze and jett shld be debatable

#52

Zyrux

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yeahh something is definitely better jet than aspas

#60

zephyrara

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jett movement yeah but of all time im not sure

#75

alienista1

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Something: 132 Jett games, 1.16 stats

Aspas: 173 Jett games, 1.26 stats

There is no comparison between Jett of the two. Aspas has more titles with Jett, more iconic Clutches, more matches, more stats, more everything.

#82

smthlikeyou11

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hes talking purely about jett movement
but yea aspas clears smth all time on jett and its not very debatable

#123

zephyrara

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yeah somethings jett movement is unmatched but overall aspas is still better probably bcos hes been in the scene longer

#63

Dhrom49

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0/8

#27

Shizzle

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yoru - tenz

#124

Manas_o_0

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Best yoru of Streamer showdown 🤡

#28

composthe

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Viper - Nats

he found all of the viper setups that were meta in 2020-22, some of his setups are still used like on bind

#41

UvuvwevwevweOnyetenyevwe

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Viper - nAts
Kj - Alfajer (Definitely better than an overrated player who is inconsistent and never an MVP)

#47

Yuh_aye

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First saying the first group is debatable and now this

Stop tryna be different bruh 😂😂😂

#49

UvuvwevwevweOnyetenyevwe

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The first group is debetable and this is my opinion
Bro, you don’t even watch Valorant you put Alfajer as the best Cypher

#51

Yuh_aye

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If you don't think Alfajer has a case for GOAT cypher (its in the 'debatable' group), then you are clueless.

The people in group 1 are the Valorant Agent equivalents of asking who's the best 3-point shooter in basketball. If you think its anybody other than Steph Curry you're just wrong. There's nothing to debate

#59

UvuvwevwevweOnyetenyevwe

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You are wrong. Alfajer is a better player with Killjoy than with Cypher. Also, I don’t believe the players in Group 1 are "Non-Debatable". There are many factors to consider, and different players can make a strong case for being the best. It is important to have these discussions.(Alfajer-Less or nAts-Less)

There is not a player like Steph Curry in Valorant.

#29

Rico98

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Reyna - Scream

#33

Itz_Ayat

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Sage - Ardiis ☠️

#36

Aayan

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If we're measuring by peak I'd consider marved for omen, but even then I think mako takes it imo

#39

Yuh_aye

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Marved and Mako have met in 3 series. Marved has won all 3 times. 3-0 Marved

In those series, Marved had a better overall rating once (by .15), Mako once (by .11), and they had an exact tie once. 1-1-1 Tie

In the one time they both played in an omen mirror matchup, Marved was better (by alot). 1-0 Marved

Marved has 3 finals appearances. 3-0 Marved

Marved has a Trophy. 1-0 Marved

Mako has been great for longer, but you can also rephrase that as Marved has achieved much more in much less time.

#53

uwukitten

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are you retarded?

#37

EndMePleaseUwU

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Sage - Either Scream or Jinggg

#40

straybullet

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jawg sage icebox

#55

MrBlooBloom

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mf aced once and y'all act like he's the goat, that's crazy shit to say when bth jingg and d4v4i exist

#38

UvuvwevwevweOnyetenyevwe

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group 1 is debatable from top to bottom

#42

straybullet

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xcc & laz dominating Pacific with chamber, meanwhile yay using viper & raze 💀

#44

UvuvwevwevweOnyetenyevwe

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I don't know about xcc but laz will definitely be in this discussion

#43

Ultia

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This is my list. It’s not about tenure but about who has shown the highest peak for the agent so far. I’ve placed asterisks by those who are debatable.

Jett: Aspas
Raze: Jawgemo*
Neon: KangKang
Yoru: Derke
Phoenix: Jingg
Reyna: Something
Iso: Alfajer

Sova: c0m*
Fade: Leo
Kayo: Ethan
Breach: Cauanzin
Skye: Ethan
Gekko: Sacy

Omen: Tenz
Astra: Karon
Brimstone: Demon1
Harbor: s0m
Viper: Less
Clove: Smoggy

KJ: Meteor
Cypher: Benjyfishy
Chamber: Yay
Sage: D4v4i
Deadlock: Mazino
Vyse: ?

#48

Yuh_aye

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if its by peak then I still think Yoru should be Meteor and Cypher should be Alfa

rest looks good

#56

MrBlooBloom

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everyone forgetting about forsaken yoru is kinda crazy ngl

#54

uwukitten

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sacy gekko is garbage wtf
also just noticed you gave sacy best sova 💀💀💀this has to be a joke

#61

Froxe

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Derke yoru

#62

charleser

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Yoru is a weird one because I feel like there should be someone else other than Meteor who is an A or S tier yoru player, but I can't think of anyone
Aspas is an excellent Jett but Something has arguably mastered the agent more than him, he's THE jett op player
Sova has a top 3 of Leo, Sacy and c0m, I'd pick Leo but it's close
Sage is probably Davai, he's always doing something unique with the wall and fragging on the agent

great choices you got overall

#64

Pato_Galactico

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Nats literally carried the cypher meta
Tuyz proved everyone that harbour was a good agent and not garbage
Ethan is no goat for nothing, he only had one good season

#65

Tadpole3

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Karon was a literal Rookie this year do you know what GOAT means

#67

Demon1_The_GOAT

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Demon1 Jett diffed Aspas during Champs 2023 when it mattered. Thats all I'm going to say.

#87

Pras1mos

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Check Loud vs EG all games stats, and see Aspas x Demon1, all maps, all games. 💀

#69

sklein

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yoru: marteen
kj: suygetsu
raze: jing
omen: mako
sova: leo
sage: sheydos

#70

tiAsunNS

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harbor - s0m, no contest.

#71

eric_5008

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This a very outdated take but SicK's Phoenix is Goated. I have a hard time picking a more recent player because it is barely played outside of benny.

Raze has to go to Jinggg, bc its iconic.
Another outdated take but sugarzero has the best astra imo
What about forsaken yoru?

#72

Soddalele

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idk why u feel the need to projectile vomit your opinions like they matter.

its just jibber jabber everytime trying to get your stars back.

#73

xhaetae

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DUELISTS:
Jett - aspas
Phoenix - Jinggg
Raze - jawgemo/Jinggg (Debatable)
Reyna - something
Neon - ZmjjKK
Yoru - f0rsakeN
Iso - Alfajer

INITIATOR:
Sova - Leo
Skye - cauanzin
KAYO - Ethan
Breach - S1mon
Fade - Leo (HM: Shao, trexx)
Gekko - Something/RieNs

CONTROLLER:
Omen - Mako (Debatable)
Astra - SugarZ3ro
Brimstone - Demon1
Viper - Less
Clove - Smoggy
Harbor - s0m

SENTINEL:
Cypher - benjyfishy
Killjoy - Alfajer
Chamber - yay
Sage - d4v41 (Debatable)
Deadlock - (?)
Vyse - (?)

Honestly I left Deadlock and Vyse blank because not enough play in Tier 1. Iso, we’ve barely seen him in play but from the looks of it Alfajer and Wo0t are really good on him.

#74

foythvlr

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Jett is debatable on either aspas or demon1 (both valid answers)
Kayo i think saadhak is better
Fade is Leo (maybe Sova too, is debatable)
Omen is Mako
Skye is Cauanzin
Kj is alfa and Cypher is nats (Less is a better overall sentinel to me but he exceeds on Viper)

otherwise good list

#76

alienista1

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Jett is not debatable. Demon1 has 1.12 Jett stats in 83 matches, while Aspas has 1.26 Jett stats in 173 matches. Even if you are talking about peak, it wouldn't make sense. At the height of Demon1, at Champions 2023, Aspas was the best Jett in the Camp, with the most impact and stats.

#78

foythvlr

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I agree, i think its aspas, but i do think saying demon1 is not absurd

#89

Pras1mos

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Fala a verdade, tu ta falando isso pros gringo não encher o saco.

#91

foythvlr

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Pior que não maninho, EU acho o aspas superior na jett pela mov dele, mas o Demon1 de Jett é um absurdo real também, diria que ele tem a melhor ult de jett do mundo, não acho loucura achar ele melhor no boneco em si não (mas como jogador geral não tem debate o aspas é melhor)

#93

Pras1mos

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Entendo seu ponto, o meu problema é que ele jogou que nem um deus em apenas 1 torneio, depois disso sumiu, mas de fato ele tem uma ótima mira.

#95

foythvlr

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É justo, aí vai de critério mesmo

#94

Yuh_aye

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it its by peak it could be demon1

but since his international debut aspas has been a min top 3 jett in the world at any point in time

the only people better at any point where - Optic Yay, EG Demon1, and MAYBE Ardiss/Texture - big maybe on those last two

#96

foythvlr

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Yeah, it depends on criteria. But i would choose aspas in any day. I'm just saying choosing demon1 is fair enough, because he's also a beast with the character.

#77

Kiko

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Phoenix - drone

#81

Itsover

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Viper Cypher- nAts by miles.

#97

destroylonely

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shAts keke Less clears him

#117

Itsover

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l0ss is watching nAts vods daily

#88

bfrparker

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KAYO IS SAADHAK FOR A LOT

#100

Yuh_aye

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The best shotgun using Kayo forsure

#102

bfrparker

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It's the best Kayo overall, very underrated

#104

Yuh_aye

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You need to rewatch EG vs Loud lowers Ascent

Don't even look at the stats, just watch the game and tell me who seems to be the better KAYO. It's pretty clear from pretty early on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4wAoMfTtJo&list=PLMJ9cfx_WDdybdHDw28uCEFnxQvprJ59W&t=2424s

Rounds 4 and 7 in particular show the little things that Ethan does that make the difference in a big way.

#105

bfrparker

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Saadhak has more games with Kayo, he has more kills, more rating, more assists, more acs, when it comes to just the game, I recommend you research Saadhak with Kayo and you will see

#109

Yuh_aye

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Ethan has better All time stats on KAYO

https://www.vlr.gg/player/727/saadhak/?timespan=all
https://www.vlr.gg/player/11225/ethan/?timespan=all

Better Rating, Better ACS, Better K/D, Slightly Better Assists Per Round
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If you wanna look at both times they met:

Much Better KAYO at Tokyo: https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=kayo

Much Better KAYO at Champs : https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1657/valorant-champions-2023?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=kayo
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If you compare Saadhak's KAYO from when he won champs to Ethan's KAYO to when he won champs:

https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1657/valorant-champions-2023?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=kayo

https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1015/valorant-champions-2022?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=kayo

Ethan is much better

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If you look at all time stats for KAYO players against good opponents (I chose '1950' rating, which I think is fair)

https://www.vlr.gg/stats/?event_group_id=all&event_id=all&region=all&min_rounds=200&min_rating=1950&agent=kayo&map_id=all&timespan=all

Ethan is much better
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If you judge by Eye-test, Ethan is better

#111

bfrparker

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Weren't you the one who, up until 2 comments ago, said to go beyond statistics? Watch Saadhak play as Kayo and you will understand this, Ethan is better when it comes to aiming, hence the higher numbers in these specific statistics, Saadhak dominates the agent like no other

#112

Yuh_aye

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Yes but after that you said Saadhak had more rating, more acs (neither true), so I went and found the statistics. By statistics Ethan wins clearly.

By most people eye-test Ethan also wins

#113

bfrparker

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I recommend you watch Saadhak's matches with Kayo in Challengers Brazil 2022 and Champions Istanbul, maybe it will change your vision a little

#114

Yuh_aye

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Which Champions Istanbul match should I watch

continue thread →

#90

CanadianLegend

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People just don’t know about Sacy’s Skye…..

#92

Whysoseriousss

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People see stats , headshots, clutches and not the game . Same people can't accept when their favourite aimer gets blocked by insane utility and can't do whatever he want and call him chocker instead of praising that utility player .

#101

Yuh_aye

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he's a pretty good skye def not near goat of the agent. I'd take Leo's skye over Sacy's everytime and he's not even my pick

#98

destroylonely

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Less is there twice goat also contender for top 3 cypher if not top2

#99

Yuh_aye

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he probably would have a decent case for #1 if he just played it more which is pretty absurd

#103

SuperRoss

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Bit early for a "clove goat", no?

And isn't derke a better yoru or am i missing something?

#106

Yuh_aye

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I mean it is a little early but he's so far ahead (literally won a championship on clove whereas nobody else even really plays her) that I think its fair to say it's him with no real competitors. Like look at this, and note the rounds as well: https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/2097/valorant-champions-2024?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=clove

Derke hasn't come close to winning a tourney with Yoru, whereas Meteor's Yoru was a clear key to GENG's dominance on Breeze. Even with stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet like the tp's in spawn that keep you paranoid.

#107

thenutoriousPRO

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nats is pretty easily viper
asuna for kayo
astra is zombs

#108

USCK

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He may be washed now but cNed is the goat of jett crazy no one mentioned him

#110

indomie

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dayum ethan with 2 agents is wild

#116

Pyr0t

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Too early for neon as well imo, at least with how the agent works now. You could split it up into a pre 8.11 and post 8.11 but that's probably somewhat antithetical to the "spirit" of these sorts of discussions.

#118

Chazzicle_

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nah saadhak is my chamber GOAT

https://www.vlr.gg/189054/loud-vs-evil-geniuses-champions-tour-2023-americas-league-ubf/?game=123173&tab=overview

#120

wigglx

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kayo = saadhak

#121

masterX

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Viper is debatable because there is chronicle

#122

masterX

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Raze jawgemo? Pfft zekken still alive dude