I think he's the second best player on SEN rn, but realistically, is he the problem? I think sen are missing sacy more than tenz right now, Sacy's util allowed zekken to be a lot better than he is atm, and I think sen have been struggling with role problem ever since.
If ur Sen's coaching staff, what would you actually do? Would you drop n4rrate?
Didn't they already dismantled that myth?!
When I watched those behind the scenes videos of Sentinels on YT, I feel like kaplan and also some players said N4RRATE added a lot of communication and especially calling out mistakes. I think the man is insanely competitive and works his ass off, so a totally different situation than Vernos.
100%. Leo is first and foremost so insanely famous because he also makes a ton of kills and is just gifted by his mechanical abilities - but the actually heavier impact was always accomplished by his insane util with Sova, Fade and Skye.
Another good example is something from PRX as a learned Duelist. He plays a lot of Initiator recently and even though he still flicks the sh*t out of people his role impact is not even comparable with a Leo or a trent (or a Sacy), simply because his util with Sova and Fade is not on this crazy level yet (with Breach and Gekko it works).
He has a significant mentality problem. I remember a moment during a professional match, possibly against MIBR or just before that game, when he sighed into the microphone. Zellsis shouted at him not to make those sighs and to stop that behaviour, reminding him that they had it under control. I understand that times can get tough in some games, but actions like that are not characteristic of a tier-one player, regardless of how you look at it, in my opinion.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSHKrngMD2s) is where the quote comes from, "We don't have much confidence in each other," he would never have said that about Tenz and Sacy. I'm wondering if the arrival of Bang and Narrate has made a difference in this regard, especially with Narrate sighing on the mic. John, Zellsis, and Zekken still appear unchanged to me. The only potential issue seems to be Bang and Narrate having differing ideas.
In a situation reminiscent of when (https://www.vlr.gg/player/5004/nathan-bocqueho) was allegedly dropped from Leviatan due to having "differing ideas" with both Net and the coaching staff (if I recall correctly), I believe that having a good team requires diverse perspectives. If you want to succeed, it's essential to have players who think differently. I can guarantee that players like Aspas, Derke, Leo, and Nats are all incredible talents, but they will have different ideas compared to outstanding players like Less, Mako, and Meteor, who each excel in their own right, This situation is different because there's a genuinely personal reason on narrates side that needs to be solved in himself, The team cannot help with that unlike with Nathan where he was dropped for differing ideas which imo is just fundamentally stupid for the reasons shared above.
TL:DR, Nothing else changed and Zellsis has been having to really whip narrate into shape on stage, imo that shows he is the problem. I think the best course of action would be to try and get Narrate up to shape quickly and if he isn't there by stage 2 personally I'd drop him and get a new player in.
Zellsis legit slammed the table in the same match but sighing is where we draw the line of a mentality problem…? This over emphasis on n4rrate mental as if it’s actually a major reason as to why the team is playing horribly is such and interesting angle to take just considering this was never even MENTIONED during his time on kc.
Why is that your default assumption. Sighing is not an inherent indicator of giving up nor that you can’t build back up. You can sigh simply because someone was in an angle you were expecting and you’re annoyed you died by that, you can sigh because you know you made a dumb mistake. You can sigh for numerous reason that don’t tie into someone having given up. N4rrate after this proceeds to put blame on himself rather than the team or anyone else saying “I just need to…” frustration with one’s self is not a sign of giving up it’s a sign of the opposite actually he’s frustrated that he’s done something wrong and is then actively looking for the solution.
Well that table slam is mostly only because he's frustrated at his own self dying to a knife on a winnable round and I mean he is human too so he will be mad and be sorry to his teammates for "throwing" a crucial round. Obviously it can be a little hypocritical but Zellsis for the most part is always trying to keep the mood up and tries to control his mentality. Narrate tries too obviously but it seems to be a little hard for him
First things first, does Zellsis have a history of slamming desks in ranked matches when the outcomes don't really matter? Has he displayed a pattern of toxicity, including using slurs and behaving poorly towards other professionals in the scene? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhPtOQwgvpI).
It's not just the sighing that indicates a mentality problem; it's the consistency of his behavior. While one instance of poor behavior can be forgiven, when patterns form—such as in the clip showing him being toxic, sighing, and getting extremely tilted in ranked—it's indicative of a deeper issue. At the start of the event, he also stated, "There are no good teams in this event. The level of play is low."
Regarding your point about "overemphasis," I mentioned both Bang and N4rrate. However, I can only comment based on what I observe. I haven't seen Bang do anything problematic, which is why I don't have concerns about him, but I do regarding N4rrate.
I never claimed that this was the primary reason for the team's poor performance; I clearly stated that I believed it was "a problem," not the sole reason for their struggles. I also emphasized that "this situation is different because there's a genuinely personal issue on N4rrate's side that needs to be addressed." This issue isn't solely about Sentinels; it's personal. However, it can still impact games and scrims, affecting how other players perceive his attitude.
It's important to remember that when there are five people on a team, and all five are trying their hardest, they can lift each other’s performance. But if one individual keeps getting tilted, calling others "braindead," trolling, and being toxic, it can seriously hinder the motivation of the rest of the team. The same concept applies to a professional team. Their mentalities may be stronger, but they aren't immune to these issues.
"This was never mentioned during his time at Karmine Corp." While it matters how he is acting on Sentinels, the focus should be on his current behaviour rather than how he behaved at Karmine Corp. If you want to argue why it may not have been brought up, it's worth noting that Karmine Corp has a long history of having seriously toxic ultras and fans in League.
I also agree with what #18 says: Zellsis shows that he is invested and wants to win that round. I've reacted similarly in my past games, but I've never intentionally kept my mic on to sigh into it. That is a conscious action, and at that point, you're just bringing down the vibes.
Edit. I wanted to add this as extra since u are clearly not convinced, I think it's fair to say Aspas has a good mentality and u can see the differences here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKOaqhvwSVQ (N4RRATE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg34KQ9DVWU (Aspas)
Both DM vods, One is five minutes, one is 50 minutes and I guarantee you without watching Aspas' that N4rrate complains 10x more than Aspas in 5 minutes than Aspas does in that 50 minute vod.
In this clip you’ve show N4arrate says “shoot the eye dumbass” whilst he’s playing fade… clearly not talking to anyone on his own team as none of the opposite team have a agent that uses and eye… aka Reyna and fade. So he’s just talking trash to the other team… “There are no good teams at this event this level of play is low” what is this other than over confidence which is perfectly fine to have? This is “toxicity” Zellsis has admitted that every time he’s stands up he’s yelling across the stage to the other team… yet we draw the line here? Zellsis can do this “https://youtu.be/0mA1gOstMr0?si=15x8g-MFoJHSJ8i7” but N4arrate is where we draw the line? Boostio can say china will never be on the level of americas. But “There are no good teams at this event is where we draw the line” Demon1 2023… need I say more? But we draw the line at N4rrate. I mean if we’re going to be THAT sensitive lol we can even look at today. Buzz saying “who’s the best, who’s the best team in Korea now” is fine? I could go on and on. I don’t know if you realize this but pro players on a stage don’t “keep their mic on” players have mentioned before how they deliberately mute there mic to cough so their mike is always active as I said to #18… sighing just like slamming your hand on a desk can come from your own frustration with yourself expect slamming your desk is lost more dramatic than sighing… I’m sorry I’m simply not for this narrative. I never said you said he was the primary problem I said you said he was a major problem which is evidently the case were not going to consider roster changes for minor problems. Sorry to say but this entire tangent just comes off at you have a inherent distaste and bias against narrate.
"In this clip you’ve show N4arrate says “shoot the eye dumbass” whilst he’s playing fade…" Now you're just completely lying about the context to protect the argument, He says "braindead, braindead, BREAK THE EYE DUMBASS" no one secure in themselves needs to call anyone else a dumbass or braindead as proven in players like Zekken, Aspas, S0m, and countless other secure valorant players in the scene not needing to trash talk others to feel good about themselves, They know they are good and that's enough for them, You're also acting as though because it's not towards his team or him it's not toxic? are u okay that argument is a very easy one to dismantle and going into your argument of "omg but everyone trash talks" I don't agree with their trash talk either but it's what childish valorant fans want, so it's what most (prod, sinaatraa, shanks, etc) will give them and it creates a horrible community of racism, sexism and toxicity normally happening and being universally accepted.
"what is this other than over confidence which is perfectly fine to have?" this isn't "Confidence", that word is fully based on the person themselves, whether they have confidence either in themselves or their team if they do that's fine, but once again just because G2 are looking great right now it doesn't mean they are calling all other America's teams a "low level of talent" it's just fundamentally a stupid statement that only someone who wants to get in your head or an insecure person would say and in a game like this fundamentally u should never be overconfident because overconfidence means u aren't reviewing the circumstances logically and rather relying on cognitive bias' and neglecting facts, considering there was a low level of talent and SEN went out it shows how overconfident n4rrate was in reality.
"inherent distaste and bias against narrate." if u believe that go ahead, I won't try to disprove you, If u rather look at the person and strawman rather than debate the facts then it's inherently useless to debate you to begin with anyway because you will just attack character, expectations, misconstrue arguments, etc to make your point fundamentally seem stronger through character assassination and whatnot while it in fact isn't
Edit: U also didn't even try to disprove the main point which was the consistency of his toxicity, all over your response was "everyone is toxic, why is this person being toxic a problem" imagine saying that to a victim of domestic abuse, I'm sure that would go down well.
Brother just say you're a snow flake I dont need all this yap. N4arrate saying BRAINDEAD isn't doing to initiate the community to be sexist and racist, genuinely wtf are you talking about lmao. Trash talk on a stage of people who are all going to shake hands and be cool after the game is COMPLETELY fine... I mean jesus how soft are you? This isn't my argument either lmao YOU asked if Zellsis showed a pattern of “Toxicity” and yes... I proved, he and many other pros do... you're not even keeping track of your own argument. “ Just because G2 are looking great right now it doesn't mean they are calling all other America's teams a “low level of talent” BROTHER??? Leaf legit said before facing sentinels in an interview “They know they're bad they just rely on individual plays” G2 LITERALLY DOES DO THAT you're actually clueless holy shit... this is purely N4rrate seeing himself and his team as the best whether that true to you or not is irrelevant that's the mindset you SHOULD have in a competitive sport. You just unironically compared trash talk on a video game to domestic abuse, please seek help.
U didn't prove anything in regards to "I proved, he and many other pros do..." u said instances where one person has said something possibly toxic and mentioned multiple of those times with different people, none of those people are toxic characters who have consistently been toxic apart from maybe boostio and some of the old EG boys other than him, but the same argument can be made, It is clear it's all for show with those people, I could believe Ethan and Boostios rivalry could be real but once again that is them pushing each other and it will only lead to both getting better in the long run, once again I mentioned it doesn't matter to me who is being toxic, it matters to me fully how someone is being toxic.
there is a fundamental difference between Boostio and Ethans toxicity and N4rrates, N4rrate gets mad that people jiggle too much in a deathmatch where no one is watching, where whether he dies a few extra times to bs doesn't matter, if u ask any good pro for advice they would say "why tf do u care what other people are doing, just focus on yourself", n4rrate doesn't get that while Ethan and Boostio have a rivalry because they were teammates and now they both want to prove one another is better, there will be times where Ethan has had to sit down and tell himself that he's better than Boostio but he needs to prove it or no one will notice it, That is confidence, When he proves it then he has the right to talk shit, Narrate has achieved nothing yet notable in his career and to be as cocky and overconfident while having so many very noticable flaws shows how truly delusional he's being in regards to the truth.
"They know they're bad they just rely on individual plays" None of this statement is inherently toxicity, Toxicity is "abusive or disrespectful behaviour exhibited by players towards other players in online multiplayer games", you can argue it's disrespectful but considering Zellsis came out after they lost and said (paraphrasing) "yeah we played shit, we need to work on it", It's sadly just Leaf's read of Sentinels and it turned out to be the truth too, It's important to notice these small differences because how people act especially in their position is important.
You might want to take out the beginning part cause I thought you were being rhetorical since zellsis is in fact pretty toxic in ranked matches and does have a history of toxicity in the pro scene. He was literally suspended a couple of a years ago because he was being racist/sexist to a staff member. If anything the beginning makes it seem like you are defending Narrate since what you said in that first section could be applied to both
As I've said above, We aren't talking about N4rrate on mad lions or kcorp or anything else, we are talking about his behaviour now same goes for Zellsis, It's blatantly obvious Zellsis is a Tyler1 type character and he is messing around when he's toxic not actually being toxic, yes that can spiral into a problem or a suspension if people don't "get it" and don't understand someone's character yet but if u cannot see the difference between Zellsis and N4rrate now then I would personally ask u to get your eyes checked.
Edit: Spelling
this is all pretty much true but we got to remember that this team with the addition of Bang and Narrate has been a team for only a few months now while last year's roster has been around for about a year+ only adding Zellsis as a new player and yes they had good chemistry almost right away but still adding one ~new player and adding 2 totally new members is different and they would need to work around a lot of things to be able to sync together with a lot of trust. A single change in a team environment can really change up a lot of how a team can work.
You have a point, but after the disappointing results, don't you have to think if they fit into the team as well as you hoped & try something else?
While reading your post, I was thinking about how EDG transformed into a championship-winning team with the addition of S1mon and changing their IGL to Nobody, all within a month.
Bang and Narrate are great players but SEN needs to find ways to meshing them into the roles that will elevate their teamwork. Team synergy isn't the only problem, in my opinion.
i think they are right in general but with the current roster and johnqt specifically, there's no reason to try and force off roles for some idea of a higher ceiling when its clear that you are majorly lowering your floor. If you had nats on your team, you wouldn't put him on initiator, even if you have these ideas of sentinel igls not being viable
Team chemistry and vibes aren't there anymore. SEN's matches during the first half of 2024 were excellent valorant and their performance right now is nowhere near Madrid form. Narrate is mechanically an excellent player with good flexibility but hasn't fit into SEN at all. If they don't get it together by stage 2 I think changes will have to be made. Right now I think roles need to be switched and time has to be given to them.
I think sen aren't like bad but are missing the experience and composure that sacy and tenz bought in vital and bad situations also this team chemistry isn't top of the box like that kamyk 1v4 , zekken and narrate jumping at the same time, or bang on that 12th bind round not holding spawn and turning to the front meaning he doesn't have full trust on teammates to hold front
John shouldn’t be an initiator if he’s not willing to take a single step on site. And Zellsis mid rounding has declined this year so far. It it’s extremely obvious when they look super structured to start of a round and then start crumbling and hesitantly peeking things with no real team coordination. Nats 1v4 you can tell John didn’t want to swing there. Kamyk 1v4 you can tell Zellsis didn’t want to peak but Zekken was overheating and so Zellsis felt obligated to swing with him. And then n4rrate didn’t want to peak just spammed the box. But then zellsis peaks so n4rrate feels obligated to peak. It’s exactly how I play when my teammates are doing dumb things and I feel, well sure at the very least let’s do it together but because of my split second hesitation because I know it’s not the right play. Pro players making mistakes I would make is not a good thing…
Mid-rounding largely relies on information you can get from your initiators. Sacy was one of the best at providing information which makes sense why SEN struggle so much this year at that aspect. This also is the reason why crashies is still being picked up, but people just be looking at stats and hating on him not understanding the value he brings
Yeah but that’s the thing they aren’t playing him on initiator. He’s playing fade breach omen iso gekko skye. I mean he’s literally playing more agents than their flex… which begs the question of if this flex should still be on the team… if you want narrate to fill those roles they sacy filled well I mean… let him fill them. People will put the blame of the role issues on N4arrate being on the team but those issue only occur when you have John off of senti. It’s giving me 2023 sen this decisions from Kaplan role wise just don’t seem to have any clear picture or longevity.
honestly n4rrate is getting a lot of hate yes he does deserve some of it but I feel bang also deserves some hate like in the current meta an omen player must be aggressive he is playing for the end round sorta clutch situations . I feel he needs to incorporate aggregation in his gameplay. I feel sen should return to their off season roles where narrate played senti and zellsis was playing flash initiators and viper,like narrate is a good fade and gekko player but he is not as good on others initiators and he is good at pouncing on small windows so he shud move to senti . Zekken doesn't op as much on jett so on jett maps n4rrate switches to jett . John needs to play every single recon initiator and be more aggressive . They need to fix their spacing issues and overheating issues I have faith in Kaplan and John . The biggest problem this team lacks character and personality like they always give up bro if tenz or sacy were there and sen was 7-0 8-0 down they would be like forget about the score do what got us here and take it one round at a time , even before map 3 started tthey looked like they had lost IDK wat Kaplan said before the map but anything instead of yall played gr8 abyss was their best map and we could have won it there but its ok you all have showed a lot of character and its bind now and then they discuss the tactics .Like anything but that is trolling
It doesn't create role issues unless you're doggardly convinced sentinel IGL is untenable which has literally no evidence. Boostio won Champs as a sentinel IGL. John won Madrid, as a sentinel IGL. Nats beat them, literally in their last game, as a sentinel IGL.
Stop forcing John to play initiator instead of creating a system that allows him to IGL properly on Senti, like other teams clearly can. Then N4rrate can play at his best. If Bang isn't comming enough to enable that, cut him, his pacing is already also an issue.
Zekken is playing ww3 every time he wants to entry, he gets picked off while entering without a trade way more this year then he ever did last year. The loss of the aggressive omen play style and the extremely good supporting util by sacy, zellsis and tenz is costing them pretty heavily
Also they tilt super easy
I had n4rrate on my team in ranked once and he was 10-18, and very tilted towards our team (he ended up popping off later in game i think) When overtime came I said “ok igl what’s the plan” (he was igling entire first attack half) and he said. “There is no plan. You’re all fucking morons”. For some reason though, it didn’t seem super hostile
I think n4rrate hate is extremely overblown, there are tons of toxic/faux toxic players on teams besides sen that are as bad/worse than him but because it's sentinels and their fans are insane and people know the teams for the good vibes he is called out. he's extremely competitive and hard working and I think he has been playing fine for what he's had to change and move to.
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