Men dont have a biological advantage

#1

CoCloudy

This bum ass take of trans mtf have an advantage because they are biological males makes absolutely no sense
Multiple studies and articles show that gender has no association with how skilled they are in video games
Yet individuals still harp on about trans mtf containing an advantage
The reason we see more trans mtf have more success in GC is because of the general culture and social norms about cis women in gaming
These social norms and discrimination from the people in gaming communities just stray women away from video games and potential competitive aspirations
and if less sample space of women wanting to pursue competitive sports
theres going to be less of those extremely talented women like the demon1's or aspas's of gc

However with time, this will improve. As less of these social norms are broken as we get older
more women will be willing to pursue esports and we will eventually get much more competitive teams and players hopefully in a couple years or so

(i also dont know if this should be in off topic or general cause, Im assuming its general because im talking about GC val)

#2

DelusionalNRGFan

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im glad it seems more ppl on here are understanding this but there's still a bunch of hate

#3

bronzil_enjoyer

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not reading allat

#4

smthlikeyou11

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ive always thought of it as men sociologically are proven to be more likely to play shooters thus leading to a lot of male pro players that are good at game vs a very small amount of female players in general
with more time theres gonna be more women playing valorant
its only a matter of time before women catch up, albeit a fairly long one as of how things are progressing rn

#6

Conut

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biological men play more videogames so it only makes sense i guess

#8

Conceit

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Yeah, that's kind of part of the thing with social norms. It's more stereotypical for a man to play a shooter game than a woman so it's more likely for a man to than a woman. Part of it is also marketing, since they purposefully tried to market and make shooter games for men for a very long time. Valorant is really kinda the only one I can think of besides like Overwatch that is appealing to both genders

#67

AlexIsACoolGuy

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men are sociologically more likely to play shooters, not psychologically.

This is because of the way young men are socialised whilst growing up, and videogames in general are marketed towards young men more than young women- shooters especially so.

You had the right idea, but it's important to make the distinction between sociological reasons and psychological reasons- because psychological reasons could imply biological reasons.

#89

valkin

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based

#96

smthlikeyou11

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english is not my first language thanks for the correction king W first post from a guy who created his account 3 and a half years ago

#5

Conceit

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Yep, but people will still constantly complain it's a problem anyway

#7

chauste

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im not gonna lie i absolutely used to believe this but the sheer number of mtf trans dominating in game changers is so ridiculous im starting to lean the other way

#9

Conut

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name 5 that are "dominating"

#119

ATBSniper

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sounds wrong without the context 😏

#13

Conceit

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There isn't actually that many lol, it's just kinda the ones that get blown out of proportion. I mean, out of the top 4 GC teams last year there were only 2 trans players, both on Shopify. Hell look at Supernova, they're pretty much all trans I believe and they're straight ass.

#15

koromast

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there were only 5 trans players on gc championship last year and only flor and sarah dominated because they were igled by mel and mel and noia werent even far from them statistically so this doesnt make sense

#17

CoCloudy

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literally just flor and Bob

dont get what you mean by sheer number...

#20

Conut

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best part is that bob doesnt even play game changers xD

#48

lielahh

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correlation doesnt equal causation. scallop had 3 trans players myself included, unsw has none and we got eviscerated. its just a matter of dedication and its random chance that flo is a grinder as well as trans (theyre unrelated)
https://www.vlr.gg/287054/unsw-purr-vs-scallop-united-esports-summoner-society-x-game-changers-2023-oceania-lf

#110

grisx23

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Not saying that stuff is wrong but that correlation and causation quote is absolutely horseshit. Correlation is the causation.

#121

lielahh

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Do u know what the quote means. It means that two things being correlated doesn’t mean that the one things cause another? I’m saying just because there is a few good trans women it doesn’t mean being trans is WHY they’re good

#10

smthlikeyou11

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Another reason i speculate but idk if i should say is and not to be sexist and stuff but girls think differently on a psychological way. They usually think more "nice" and gentle if u get what i mean. Like sometimes theyll feel bad for killing an enemy or whatnot, and another thing is theyre kinda mostly steryotyped to play the support agents when theyre more of a natural on other agents

#12

Conut

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Im not sure if biological women "feel bad for killing an opponent" but i understand what you are trying to say lol

#14

smthlikeyou11

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i cannot think of an example so thats what i went with or theyll feel bad for killing winman or smth theyll be like noo hes so cute! not all women are like this but some i know are this type

#19

Conut

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lmao i get it, tbh if anyone does that surely it would be a bronze player lol

#21

CoCloudy

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In simpler terms
again the social norms and people who discriminate, gate keep women and discourage them to not pursue esports

#11

goofyahh1447

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This bum ass take of trans mtf have an advantage because they are biological males makes absolutely no sense

Proof? You should cite some sources.

#16

CoCloudy

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theres been a shit ton of vlr posts that state the same and provide proof with sources
If you want me to i cam mention it
but with the amount of times that its been shown I feel like its just common knowledge at this point
i can still cite them if you want me to

#34

stackk__

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well not to be rude, but you should be citing sources instead of asking because your making the claim that "men don't have a biological advantage"

#82

TheHardStuckImmortal

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https://www.vlr.gg/187609/why-boys-girls-in-esports

refer to thread 23.
ive debunked this bum ass take so many times now.

#18

raka

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comment #46, https://www.vlr.gg/289916/flor-murders-semmler

It is okay to accept the fact that men are genetically superior when it comes to video game performance without shaming women for wanting to play competitive esports

#22

justforthis

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It is just about fairness. What creates skill is total playtime, so it is just about a boy that is allowed to play for 24 hours a week vs. a girl that is not allowed to touch a PC unless she cleans the house first. Idk, I have a big sister and a big brother and a little sister and a little brother, and simply my sister is not allowed. That is why I have an idea: why not just create a 1-hour playtime league so everybody who plays only 1 hour a day can get the same skilled opponent. And back to the topic, I don't like Florescent play on GameChanger simply because the total hour of playtime is so in contrast to the competitor.

#23

Conut

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is this a copypasta or are u daft

#122

benjy

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daft guy🐰

#24

smthlikeyou11

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one hour a day playtime league is not going to work

#30

Kirya

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LOL

#25

raka

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Also how do you explain SR destroying everyone in game changers, yet unable to beat random tier 4 mix in an open tournament

#26

smthlikeyou11

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because the game changer scene is not that good lol

#27

Conut

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because the gamechangers league sucks lmao, most of the players arent even immortal

#69

raka

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and why do you think that is

#72

Conut

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Because there aren't enough good players that are gc eligible

#74

raka

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and whose fault is that

#90

valkin

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is this deadass

#28

realvizierr

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diamond1
I've never seen any full female team take on a full male team at the highest level of ANY game at all.
If there really is no biological advantage, how do you argue against point 2?
If there really is no biological advantage, why are no females on any half-decent t2 team or t1?
If all women need is experience to become as good as men, why allow men to play in a league that should be for women?

Truthfully I'm not transphobic for as much as it would seem in previous posts, I find the whole idea of that a bit disturbing but I tolerate other's life decisions, but it's the same problem as it is with any other sport in history: men are usually better than women at them. So if your goal is to create a balance between them in eSports ( where you claim there's no biological difference ), why make a league where some men can compete against women? You can identify as whatever you want, but you were born a man or a woman, so you should play in the right league.

#31

Conceit

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Most, if not all of your points were discussed in this post lol

#32

CoCloudy

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these takes that your making just show that you didnt read anything I said or you read it but dont have the comprehension to understand texts
allas ill explain it either way

Answer for 2 and 3: Ok first lets agree that if one gender has more players there will be better players of that gender, atm the gender disparity shifts towards males which is why we see better male players because there is just more of that gender playing.
and I literally mentioned the reasons such as: social norms, gate keeping communities and cultural background being a much bigger reason for why women arent at the level that men are at, and its not cause "Men are better at sports" 🤢

answer for 4: lack of opportunities, a while ago we saw that mel was denied spots in high level teams because she was a girl, so it is safe to assume it has happened times before.
Less orgs as of right now arent as willing to push mixed gender rosters (except maybe EG back then).

Answer for 5: "why allow men to play in a league that should be for women?" Literally just transphobia stop tryna cope 💀

#35

realvizierr

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All of your points display inconsistencies that approve of my points.

You're telling me that if there's more male players than female players, inevitably there'll be a larger amount of talent amongst men than women which is fair and I admit can be true, you attribute this to the problem of "social norms", "gatekeeping communities" and "cultural backgrounds" which, up until some point, is true.
However, you never really take in consideration what I'm actually saying and why #5 is not "cope" lol

ESports has been around for a really long time, obviously not longer than all these social norms you're talking about, but it's been long enough to at least give women some opportunity to participate against men. I've never, literally never, seen a full woman team compete against a full men team at the highest level of any game, or have never seen any record of such scenario in, probably, all the decades of esports history.
This only tells you one thing: Men are dominant over women in gaming. That is a solid truth.

You can say the cause for that is the inexperience of women in gaming compared to men, but then again the question is:

Throughout the whole history of Esports, not a single team of women can compete at that level of any game?
I'm not even talking about winning everything over men, any sort of recognition would suffice.

I'll set up a quick example for you to grasp an idea: The Guard's struggle to secure a spot in franchise.
I've never seen a team of women in Valorant, or in any game, do something similar: climb all the way up from the very bottom. (even if G2 suck dick now)

Now, when I say that a person born a man shouldn't play in a mostly women league is because the experience and individual skill of that guy will heavily outperform any woman in the league, as clearly demonstrated in GCC.

This is also a bigger message for organizations to give less opportunities to women because all they want is to make money, so why would they get 5 players who are worse when they can get another 5 who are better and more experienced, and for the same price?

That's just what I think of it.
Also I'm pretty sure meL was given a TRIAL for a team, and eventually she was told no. Not because she was a female, but probably because they just didn't want her. In any case, it's just another example of what I said before.

#39

CoCloudy

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You say decades but esports really only has started giving opportunities to women after 2010s
and even then most of what they got was pretty scarce
They just need more time, you cant expect gc to be around for 3 years and already be able to beat teams full male teams.
Riot is really the only company pushing for equality in esports, so yes its gonna take time but it will eventually be a reality and you cant deny that.

and also mel was denied cause one of the players didnt want to play with a girl, that was confirmed and you can check your self

#44

realvizierr

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Cool, you got one of the points. If there's no biological disadvantages, then they need their space and time for improvement.
The other question is the one that defends the integrity of that space and time which goes against the transgender idea of "If I identify as..., I can play in..." which only conflicts with what you and I both agree on: women are not at regular league's level but can improve.

Why set them up against players who should be playing in the regular league when what we're aiming for us equal opportunities as a whole?
That's where everyone's argument defending that side goes wrong, you don't understand you're doing more harm than good.
I admire the people's enthusiasm with including "marginalized genders", but not in a league that women need to be able to compete in higher levels.

#59

CoCloudy

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You say it as if its a major issue when the only 2 trans people dominating are Bob and Flor
and one of them doesn't even play in gc anymore 🤣
Supernova is like mostly trans players and they still ass
If too many trans people start domininating then im sure it can be considered a problem but its really not

#29

Rocky54

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I disagree

#33

CoCloudy

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ty for input gang

#36

Kryomeister

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Men have advantages

#37

Conut

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then why arent you better than Melanji LOL

#87

Brimstan

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Even the worst pros are better than the average joe;

#38

ZettGundam

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Uhh for Turn Based Strategy game like Chess I absolutely agree but idk about real time games tho

#40

u28217xh

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I don't really believe that "society says women can't play videogames" is the prime deterrent preventing females from competing with males and male-to-females in professional eSports. I also don't think it's down to biological differences like reaction time.

It could genuinely just be that most women don't really care about eSports...Especially not enough to invest the time and training required to become better than 99% of the player base. This may sound a little sexist but these types of gendered trends are observable in every area of life; there are just certain things men are more likely to be interested in than women, and grinding competitive eSport titles just happens to be one of them.

Riot can try to develop the talent pool amongst women and provide them with an audience, but the female players also need to care enough to out-train and out-compete the male players they'll eventually be up against. I am also not a fan of the "lower player pool" excuse as to why the female talent is lagging behind...Play with the males!? Even arranging scrims with a few ranked demons would be better training than stomping GC teams that aren't fighting back.

#42

CoCloudy

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"society says women cant play videogames" is an oversimplification of the point im trying to create.
there are general cultural expectations in a household that could be the cause of girls not being motivated to try or compete
Including the people that surround them that are considered friends could also be discouraging to girls more rather than men.

Also, gc teams do try to scrim with proper teams BUT why would a team want to scrim against such low level teams
so no its not an excuse, its a legitmate reason.

#46

u28217xh

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There are general cultural expectations in a household that could be the cause of girls not being motivated to try or compete.

Why has this not been represented in other areas of "cultural expectation"? Women currently dominate education and are prevalent, if not overrepresented, in other areas that were once "for men" e.g. medical careers. "Culture" isn't really doing a good job at holding women back if this has been the result.

I will not accept that being good at videogames is so much of a challenge for women, that the reason they aren't as good as men is due to other people holding them back. GC is not comprised of women from Afghanistan, it is comprised of players from countries which actually recognise women's rights and opportunities. If most women are expressing those rights in directions which don't lead to eSports, then so be it.

Also, gc teams do try to scrim with proper teams BUT why would a team want to scrim against such low level teams
so no its not an excuse, its a legitmate reason.

I'm recommending playing with better players, they do not have to be established teams. Most GC players are not highly ranked, and so even highly ranked players would suffice.

#60

CoCloudy

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Why has this not been represented in other areas of "cultural expectation"?

cause were talking about esports broski, obviously its going to be different in significantly different proffesions

they aren't as good as men is due to other people holding them back.

I dont get how you cant grasp the concept of women finding it harder to find success in male dominated spaces
Riot is trying their best to help them out by creating GC
so we can get to a point where eventually its equal or similar

players from countries which actually recognise women's rights and opportunities.

You generalising an entire nation of girls, just cause one girl had the support and opportunity to compete doesn't mean they all have them

#75

u28217xh

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This turned out way longer than I expected but I wanted to be thorough.

I dont get how you cant grasp the concept of women finding it harder to find success in male dominated spaces

I understand this concept, I just don't agree it is for the reason people claim (being held back). That is why I made the point that we could just be witnessing a lack of interest and drive from most women in this area.

so we can get to a point where eventually its equal or similar

This is assuming that the lack of female Esport talent is due to discrimination and not lack of interest. There is no need to "fix" something if it simply comes down to a lack of interest from the underrepresented group. For example, we don't need to fix the lack of female oil rig workers.

You generalising an entire nation of girls, just cause one girl had the support and opportunity to compete doesn't mean they all have them

Gaming, for a long time, has been looked down upon as being for losers (which is still also the opinion of many women, mind you), yet despite this men have continued to play video games and become good at them. You make it seem as though male gamers are blindly supported and that is why they do well, which is not true.

cause were talking about esports broski, obviously its going to be different in significantly different proffesions

If women can defy entire career fields and replace the majority of men in those fields, is it believable that they would be held back from being good at Valorant, of all things? I don't know about you, but my opinion of women is higher than that.

In Rocket League there was a female player (Karma) who competed in a co-ed team against other male teams. Other female Rocket League players were inspired by her and wanted to compete one day too, but guess what? They were not putting in the effort that she did to get to her level, and so they never got there. GC, at the moment, looks the same way. Where you have players like Mel taking as many opportunities as they can to try and compete but then a larger group of female pros whose commitment I honestly question. There is no excuse for not being able to at least get to Immortal and compete with ranked players when you are an employed "pro" player.

#78

CoCloudy

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be witnessing a lack of interest and drive from most women in this area.

The lack of interest comes from how gaming is marketed and gate keeping communities, Clearly companies and gaming culture havent tried to market towards more girls, maybe only recently in 2010's after league and val came out. I'm also referring to certain communities discouraging women to join and play (look at cs and r6 LOL). Theres more to it then them just being held back.

simply comes down to a lack of interest from the underrepresented group

again, I don't think lack of interest is the fault of females. Theres just too many factors to discourage them from showing interest.
And eventually we will get to a point where they will, as more girls are getting into gaming at younger ages, whether it be through their ipads or phones.

You make it seem as though male gamers are blindly supported

Well, not what I said. I said females get less support over males. I never said males get 100% support.

is it believable that they would be held back from being good at Valorant, of all things?

Esports is not yet recognised as much as any other proffession, so yes women will be held back in this industry more because of how new it is. Also the factors for women joining are much different.

Also you bringed up karma, as a way to say gc players arent trying hard enough. And tbh there isnt really a way to verify this, we dont know how much they are sacrificing or effort they are putting in to get low results. Hard work doesnt always equal wins

#41

0fcuZ

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It's basically the same reason why there more cracked Valorant/Csgo players in EU and NA than in Apac. We just need to give it some times.

Not because of biology.

#43

Shinxly

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Women in general are just not as aggressive. There aren't any biological advantages but mentality differences.

#45

0fcuZ

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How tf is that supposed correlates with being good at Valorant lmao

#47

trikecycle

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It means that women play a slow defaulty style, and it is quite one dimensional as there are no pace mixups, leading to failure in open qualifiers

#49

0fcuZ

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Most dumb takes ever. At least you can farm impressions from the incels.

#52

trikecycle

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You do know I’m joking yeah?

#53

u28217xh

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Even if he isn't serious, is it that dumb? I really don't get what good there is when people just dismiss things like this which are evident in our history/nature/biology. Maybe it's too deep of a conversation for a video-game. But is it really that bad to recognise if the average female gamer plays differently to the average male, maybe that actually plays a role in this whole "there are less women in eSports" conversation?

Maybe I am too open to discussion but I don't see the value in ignoring something like that as just "incel" stuff.

#58

0fcuZ

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Insignificant difference. Only incels would take it too deep, and spread misinformations. If it's physical sports then I can understand. I am personally not open to discuss some b.s.

#51

u28217xh

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I started watching GC some time last year and this was the first thing that I noticed, their playstyle is very different. I wonder if it's similar in other games.

#50

Yennefer_Of_Vengerberg

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I agree that men, women and trans people should have equal rights and be treated equally as well.
But denying the fact that biological male humans on average have certain advantages does not help this cause .

Men play more video games, men have better reaction time. Again - on average. Sure, there are some women who play more than average man does and have better reaction time than that of an average man.

Instead of blatantly twisting the truth, we should better focus on explaining to those hyperfixated on blunt mysoginistic idea "man>woman" that this is not the case because succes in Valorant does not ONLY depend on biological factors but on SO MUCH MORE and further elaborate on what the "MORE" means.

Do not fight a lie with another lie. This will never lead to anything good.

#84

asdfgh

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exactly

#54

TEHMANISDINGIN

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most men start playing games at a very young age, while women play games when they are teenagers or adults, that's why men have an advantage over women, when women learn how to shoot or aim, men are already proficient at it, when women are proficient, men are already masters.

#55

yuriito

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biological advantage on videogame kkkk

#56

ItzS1N

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As someone who has a legit degree in the sporting field I can tell you this is just false,
To not offend anyone when reading this I will be talking about SEX not Gender, If i say Women or Female i mean AFAB, If i say Man or Male i mean AMAB.

Due to different levels of hormones when going through puberty (hormone replacement therapy (HRT) will happen after this) men have distinct biological advantages over women.

1) Reaction time - I think we can all agree that in valorant having a better reaction time will make you a better player and studies have shown that Males have and average of 23ms quicker reaction time Souce - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198384/#:~:text=The%20mean%20fastest%20reaction%20time,ms%20and%20121%20ms%2C%20respectively.

2) Muscle Memory - Muscle memory in my field is called Proprioception, this is a summary of information from: muscle spinels, golgi tendon organs and joint receptors. These are all found in Muscles Tendons and ligaments, Due to an increased level of testosterone Males will have an increased amount of these Specialized cells in their bodies. This allows for a quicker learning of "muscle memory" due to more information going to the brain meaning a better proprioceptive output

I have more reasons but I don't want to spend 3 hours writing a paper any more info i will do a quick reply in the replies

#63

0fcuZ

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I heavily disagree, these biological differences are insignificant. It's mainly because of social stereotyping. If you really think that you are cooking with your logics then you've wasted your, years as an academic scholar. You don't need no degree to know this, it should be a common sense. Also there are some cognitive function tests where females exceed on average higher scoring than males. Not to mention the limitations on these studies that have been done...

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4129348/#:~:text=Conclusion%3A%20Male%20cognitive%20functions%20were,)%2C%20as%20compared%20to%20males.

#68

Yennefer_Of_Vengerberg

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How can you deem ~24 ms reaction time difference as insignificant when talking about FPS?

#77

CoCloudy

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hes talking about average ms reaction where some women have a higher reaction time than some men
(i think thats he is talking about)

#83

TheHardStuckImmortal

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because it is. A deviation of 24ms can be so insignificant, that it can be caused due to players using different peripherals.

IF that 24ms was SO SIGNIFICANT, wouldnt a regulatory body make sure that the peripherals used by players, be equal in capability such that the only determinant is their natural reaction time?

edit: mfs just downfrag cause they are stumped.

#102

Yennefer_Of_Vengerberg

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2 things:

1) Even if you think that a certain advantage is not "SO SIGNIFICANT" you can't just pretend it doesn't exist!
2) No, 24 ms is not 0. And it all does not come down to the 24 ms. It is not insignificant either though!

#105

TheHardStuckImmortal

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Where am i pretending it does not exist and your just repeating the same talking points without any reason whatsoever.

If its not insignificant, why hasnt Riot among other esport authorities addressed this or banned- say the wooting keyboards in Pro play which have 50-100ms FASTER relay time between keystrokes than your average mechanical keyboard.

#91

0fcuZ

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First of all, this study was being done with many limitation factors, the 21ms difference is because of the one big outlier, if you actually click his source and read the article, it infact stated that

At the 99.9% confidence level, neither men nor women can react in 100 ms, but they can react in as little as 109 ms and 121 ms, respectively.

Secondly, in fps esport, reaction time is not just one big factor with how well you can perform.

Prove: We can agreed that the age plays big role with your reaction time. As you age, your reaction time slows down, which should be a common sense... If that's the case then in AMERICA VCT 2023 NRG who has in an average of age of 25 has better performance than MIBR who has in an average of age of 20.6.

Source: https://www.vlr.gg/170707/valorant-franchised-teams-average-ages

#93

XQOM

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Human reaction time peaks around early-mid twenties. Here's a study that says reaction time peaks at 24; https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0094215. There is plenty of other studies as well pointing to similar conclusions. Of course reaction time is just one of the many factors of Valorant but it is still meaningful. When talking about the best of the best even the smallest advantage margins can make a difference.

#95

0fcuZ

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In esports, which mainly requires mental capabilities, and not physicality, male and female has little to no difference. The only reason sole reason why we have not seen female dominance in esports is because of social influence and stereotyping from the past history.

#98

XQOM

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What you don't understand is it doesn't have to be the "main" reason. Physical capabilities still somewhat change how good a player can be, especially FPS games. Reaction time, hand-eye coordination, muscle memory, etc all play a part. As I said my post above when you are trying to be the best of the best, minor advantages can be the difference maker.

Now if we are talking about why there is a lack of women representation at the highest level of competitive Valorant I do think genetics play a small role BUT it's not even close to the main reason why. The main reason is numbers. The number of women Valorant players is lower then men, and the number of women valorant players who have aspirations to play professional is significantly lower. To see an increase in numbers the social environment around women in gaming as whole needs to drastically improve.

#99

0fcuZ

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So does some female has better reaction time than some males, which is why those small differences are insignificant, so stop bringing it up to compare why more male are successful than female at this moment. It's literal b.s and just pure incels, ignorance, and narcissistic takes. I have been a fan of esport for a while, I can tell you that the experience is far more important than any other attributes.

#106

XQOM

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If on average men have a faster reaction time than women of course it would make a difference. It's not B.S. but as we discussed before there is more significant reasons on why there is a large disparity in high level valorant.

Side note. I don't really believe the "been a fan for awhile" claim. No chance you are above the age of 16 😂

#107

0fcuZ

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You're fuckin delusional, I am not going to waste my time any longer by trying to prove a point to an incel. Have a good life 👋

#71

raka

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but but but you are sexist !!!!

finally someone with brain, thank you for rationing that woke idiot

#80

TheHardStuckImmortal

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*knocks on echo chamber

you good in there bro?

#92

0fcuZ

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Imagine thinking men are genetically more gifted than female to play a videogame is a rational thinking LMAO.

#118

raka

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this isn't about what anyone thinks, it's about facts supported by science

go outside, get some fresh air, and maybe your small libtard brain will be able to cope with facts rather than spew random woke bullshit

#79

TheHardStuckImmortal

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There are several inconsistencies regarding using that study to substantiate your argument, and that would take a fuckton to type.

Simply said, using the exact same argument, would you agree then that teams with an average younger age would be more dominant as they would have a lower reaction time? Why is that not the case then in multiple esports titles?

I also don't see how physiological differences are even arguable in the field of esports just due to the diversity of players. Different age groups, different lifestyles etc etc.
My point is you cannot say for sure that men are better than women in FPS because of physical differences.

A good way to describe the current status of Female FPS Teams is to the condition of LCS teams in NA and Europe. NA and EU teams often get stomped by their Asian counterparts. Do the Asian pros have something in their genetics that makes them exceptionally better than the others?

#117

Targu1n

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To quote your linked article: "However, that sex difference in reaction time is likely an artifact caused by using the same force threshold in women as men" - As the article itself explains theyre talking about "response time" and not reaction ("which is the sum of the premotor time, the electromechanical delay, and the time required to generate a given foot force against the starting block") and heavily incorperate on the force aspect for their argumentation. How do the differences in Spatial Ability scale when it comes to small movements like in esports?

Theres also the problem with using sprints as a source for reaction based research since the correlation between reaction time and results isnt generally accepted. From https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/fulltext/2013/04000/reaction_time_aspects_of_elite_sprinters_in.3.aspx (an article in favor of correlation): "Mero et al. (16) and Smirniotou et al. (20) reported no correlation between reaction time and performance level. Delalija et al. (9) observed a significant correlation [...]".

But most importantly the article I linked concludes " that male athletes younger than 18 years had a significantly longer reaction time (0.170 ± 0.031 seconds) (p < 0.01) than the other age groups [of male athletes]". 26–29 years is the "optimal" age according to their numbers with "0.150 ± 0.017 seconds". The >18 year olds RT is a whole 0.017 longer than more than 30 year old females ("0.153 ± 0.020 seconds").

Would this be a conclusion you agree with by looking at Valorant or CS pro players? Is the scene dominated by 26-29 year olds because they have a significant (up to 0.02 seconds!) biological advantage over their younger competition?

#57

bronzil_enjoyer

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damn one of the biggest threads 🗿

#61

Nilonesia

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Yip yap

#62

Poge

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im ritard

#64

espeon

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good thread

#65

cloudywolf

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I know we are on vlr so everybody is talking with valorant in mind, but when you think about it there are a lot of other esports which are not a fps like LOL, rocket league, dota, tft etc. Which doesn't require high reaction time etc but we don't see any females players in those league either(if there are i am sorry i didn't know). I don't think it has anything to do with being a guy or girl, its mostly mindset i think. Most of the time i have observed it is easier to get a guy with no experience in gaming to get hooked to video games rather than a girl. This is just my personal experience, i am not speaking for everyone.

As OP said it will probably improve with time.

#66

Cromawarrior48

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they do tho

#70

raka

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I thought this was a real post until I saw this comment

https://i.gyazo.com/96bc314dc14796e89aa53226ea342688.png

he baited all of us lmfao well played

#73

Ullyr

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damn this post has some spicy takes

#76

hellfire

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8/8

#81

dapada

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he won't suck your dick lil bro

#86

CoCloudy

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stolen + flair + u r a loser + ratio

#88

dapada

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trying so hard to get his dick sucked by a dude 🤣

#94

0fcuZ

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Bro dropping 11 years old's type of insults lmao

#111

dapada

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another one 🤣
he won't suck your dick bro, or both of you could just suck each others dick 🤣

#112

0fcuZ

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Bro can't write a sentence without mentioning 'dick' like it's in his mind all the time lmao

#115

dapada

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look at bro trying to impress a legitimate dude by being his white knight😭

#124

0fcuZ

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It's ok man, you seem like you are projecting your insecurity right now. Time to come out of the closet buddy :)

#85

TakoSaki

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W PRX cloudy

#97

333triplethreat

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heres the thing though, we can literally get a random tier 3 male group(like qualifiers) who really dgaf and literally know they wont qualify. yet with a team that is fully backed up with orgs with real coaches arent even able to beat tier 3 teams. Just because the amount of gc players are small, they are literally putting in effort everyday, practicing and scrimming and overtime they should get better, yet they still cant get pass tier 3 teams.
maybe its cuz men on average have a faster reaction and better hand eye coordination

#100

horse69

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sure, but that doesn't change the fact that not a single GC player is good enough for T1 (not even high level T2)

#101

ALoKi007

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There are only two genders

#103

goatman123

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but then explain this - there are way way way way way less trans women than there are cis women

trans women still perform (on average) better than cis women

why?

#104

0fcuZ

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With your logic, Eg should've dominated the last year GC tournament. And loud should've won against liquid in the qualifier, no?

Edit: of course, no response from the incels (just downvoting 😿)

#108

Saiki_taha

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My counter: No

#109

Vividogre

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It's simply the amount of players playing the game.
If equal amount of men and women were playing the game we would have almost equal amount of pro players of each gender.

#113

cohnr

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the only thing i really know about this is that biological males are biologically slightly quicker in most aspects (reaction time ~10/20ms faster, movement is quicker and can be kept at top speeds for longer etc)
so there is technically an advantage but it isnt much

#114

CoCloudy

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depends on person to person
the average male has a 20ms reaction diff compared to female
but there are still women out there with higher ms reaction than most men
same goes for men

#116

velocity05

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Men just have a huge social advantage

#120

tsmsobadholy

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allat + if i speak...

#123

CoCloudy

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flair