The 2023 EG disrespect is ridiculous

#1

Yistyy

Did you guys even watch vct that year? It was so clear that team was head and shoulders above everyone else. I mean, they made it to the grand fucking finals at Tokyo while playing with a half baked gameplan. For context, EG were scrimming with REFORMED the whole time and the whole tokyo game plan was around him because demon1 had visa issues. They assumed he wasn't going to show up. They changed roles and everything, and EG were still so damn good and able to make it to the finals.

Once they were no longer nerfed, they decimated their competition completely at Champions. I said it perfectly in the other thread: "EG played some of the most tactical valorant of all time, everything they did had a purpose, and every opponent was gameplanned against extremely well. Their comps and maps were so clearly a level above everyone else, and their synergy and teamwork was unmatched. And among all else, every single player was playing at an elite level, especially demon1 who was unarguably the best player itw after champs."

Even if they played fnatic, they would have probably smoked them. At Tokyo they were extremely close to beating them with a on-the-fly stratbook, and not to mention fnatic looked a lot weaker and shakier at champions. Not just by eyetest, but at times they looked really messy and it was clear they were relying on hero plays from their star studded roster. Like for example, they choked 13-1 against DRX on fnatic's own map pick, bind. They went on to win that series, but it was so clearly not the same fnatic that could steamroll everyone like they did at Tokyo.

Loud and PRX didn't choke either, they put up a great fight and were absolutely elite, but Potter and Boostio outcalled and outplayed them pretty convincingly. Also all of those players were so insane that 2nd half of the year, obviously demon1, but especially Ethan and Jawgemo. And c0m had some elite utility usage and clutch rounds. The competition could also not do squat against his lurks.

Basically, yall need to stop disrespecting EG because you guys are outing yourselves as casuals.

#2

Nef0r0

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thing with EG is that their prime was so short you can't rank them adequately. What if Demon1 still experiences the slump he had in 2024? Then the entire EG roster probably falls off due to the loss of fire power

#4

nobody___100

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no loss of firepower. potter is a perfect coach. demon1 would play astra/brim/chamber/jett like he did in 2023 and eventually move on to iso and neon

#7

zhongZHI

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demon 1 on neon.... bro did u watch his aim on lev and nrg? he is lowk a bit finished sadly

#9

Yistyy

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He looked very good against mibr tho. I think he's not really suited to play entry duelist, that was always Jawgemo's job on EG. Put him on controllers, sentintels, chamber, or a baity role on jett and he could genuinely start frying again.

#45

zhongZHI

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istg just give him back to potter

#47

Yistyy

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Agreed, Potter would 100% make him elite again.

#40

shaq_attaqr

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jawg would obviously be on neon dude

#62

Blue_Iced_Tea

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Bruh demon1 is one of my fav players oat but you can’t be putting him on neon while Jawg is on the team

#64

nobody___100

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yeah i tweaked out there a bit. but demon1 would probably run iso a lot and maybe he would play yoru given time

#6

Yistyy

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that slump in 2024 was due to personal issues in his life. like i had to bring this up, but his gf was losing bone and extremely sick. it makes sense he could not focus up with all the shit going on in his life.

#11

Nef0r0

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I am not blaming him, but that's just the key player not being able to play at his best, giving like half his output

#13

Yistyy

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Imo, I still think that team would have be really good in that case, because demon1 wasn't even playing that well at tokyo and they still were owning everyone.

#57

CraftyForever966

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Can you please stop this insane narrative of "Demon1 had such a rough year taking care of his EXTREMELY SICK girlfriend!" She has rheumatoid arthritis lmao, it really isn't that serious.

It also doesn't help that there is a literal example of a pro player actually dealing with a significant others ACTUAL serious illness with Tenz and Kyedae, who had LEUKEMIA at the exact same time as you children were spouting this nonsense of her "BONES BETRAYING HER."

One of them is a life threatening blood cancer, one of them makes your joints ache a bit.

#60

Yistyy

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Rheumatoid arthritis can be mild, but in this case it was pretty serious. you should try to respect and understand that it wasn't an easy situation for demon1.

#67

CraftyForever966

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First of all, you clearly have no knowledge on these illnesses in general, let alone any specific information on her actual case and situation, so making all of these claims that her illness is the most severe case of rheumatoid arthritis ever doesn't make sense, and you wouldn't even know what that looked like in the first place.

Scratch all that, what the hell are you even doing here? You are trying to equate a manageable chronic illness that was caught extremely early to a BLOOD CANCER WITH A 30% SURVIVAL RATE.

You do NOT need to go this far to defend the video game player/team you like the most. This level of parasocial behavior is super weird and unnecessary. It is NOT a big deal if videogamer Demon1 doesn't win as many videogame matches as before. Grow the hell up.

#69

Yistyy

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most severe case of rheumatoid arthritis ever

when did i say this exactly? maybe it was a stretch for me to say "extremely sick" but now you're just reaching. Also, I am in no means "equating" this illness to cancer, you were the one who brought it up, not me.

This level of parasocial behavior is super weird and unnecessary.

How is this being parasocial? I'm just saying you should be more understanding that it wasn't an easy situation for demon1. if anything, you should grow up because you clearly are more passionate about this than I am.

#71

SleepingSnorlax

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Leukaemia is more dangerous than arthritis bro very less people survive

#73

Yistyy

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I know, but I never mentioned leukaemia, this guy did. My point was that we shouldn't discard what demon1's wife was going thru just because someone else has it worse.

#3

wagonVAL

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Did you guys even watch vct that year? It was so clear that team was head and shoulders above everyone else. I mean, they made it to the grand fucking finals at Tokyo while playing with a half baked gameplan. For context, EG were scrimming with REFORMED the whole time and the whole tokyo game plan was around him because demon1 had visa issues. They assumed he wasn't going to show up. They changed roles and everything, and EG were still so damn good and able to make it to the finals.

Once they were no longer nerfed, they decimated their competition completely at Champions. I said it perfectly in the other thread: "EG played some of the most tactical valorant of all time, everything they did had a purpose, and every opponent was gameplanned against extremely well. Their comps and maps were so clearly a level above everyone else, and their synergy and teamwork was unmatched. And among all else, every single player was playing at an elite level, especially demon1 who was unarguably the best player itw after champs."

Even if they played fnatic, they would have probably smoked them. At Tokyo they were extremely close to beating them with a on-the-fly stratbook, and not to mention fnatic looked a lot weaker and shakier at champions. Not just by eyetest, but at times they looked really messy and it was clear they were relying on hero plays from their star studded roster. Like for example, they choked 13-1 against DRX on fnatic's own map pick, bind. They went on to win that series, but it was so clearly not the same fnatic that could steamroll everyone like they did at Tokyo.

Loud and PRX didn't choke either, they put up a great fight and were absolutely elite, but Potter and Boostio outcalled and outplayed them pretty convincingly. Also all of those players were so insane that 2nd half of the year, obviously demon1, but especially Ethan and Jawgemo. And c0m had some elite utility usage and clutch rounds. The competition could also not do squat against his lurks.

Basically, yall need to stop disrespecting EG because you guys are outing yourselves as casuals

#5

zhongZHI

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all you say is true. but if all of them look shit on their respective teams or the teams do shit kinda throws all that to the trash in some peoples eyes.cuz then we just saying that potter with like 5 good aimers like on eg couldve done the same thing if only strategy made them go so far and seeing that literally none of them can carry their teams to an event (bar jaw who finanlly turned on his pc recently).

#8

Yistyy

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But the disrespect on that 2023 team in particular is completely unjustified. Just because the players peaked early and can't find the same success after splitting up does not mean that 2023 team fluked, or got lucky, or whatever straight bullshit people are saying.

#10

AK3

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2023 EG was the best team ever formed in this game, they thrived in a year were LOUD FNC PRX and other teams were considered to get trophies, end of the story any1 who deny EG was the best team is delusional kid who thinks EDG would have won back to back trophies and NRG were a super team.

#12

sentinelmain377

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bro they lasted 2 events (shortest lifespan in S tier from all Trophy-winning teams)

#14

Yistyy

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They had to break up because EG wasn't paying them enough. If they stuck together they 100% would have beaten SEN at Madrid.

#19

Azzelastia

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eu 0 team region 😹😹😹😹
where is b0tality 😹😹😹😹😹😹

#15

Yistyy

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You're exactly right. To be convincingly better than Prime PRX, 2nd best version of LOUD who were still extremely elite, and a FNC coming off a repeat is so underrated by VLR. 2023 EG deserves so much more credit it's actually insane.

#16

AK3

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yes thats my argue but these kids doesn't give credit were it have to be given tbh.

#17

foythvlr

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just so you know my comment on that thread wasn't negative. even if they got perfect timing and luck like i said they still needed competence and talent to pull it off and they did because they were a great team. what i meant is that they were the perfect team for that situation and context and it likely wouldn't work on any other year/meta/team and that's not something bad because it just shows how good they were at the time

#21

Yistyy

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I understand your point, but I disagree with them not being good in a different era. If anything that applies to Optic more. EG could definitely adapt to whatever meta emerges, and if they stuck together I have no doubts they would have won Madrid.

#24

foythvlr

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Fair enough. I don't really know cause 2024 meta was too weird and idk how they would work out role wise, but they could, i just don't really see it. But being fair even if they individually fell off separated later they probably wouldn't if they kept the team and the momentum going. Too much what ifs but its what happens when the team is really special

#18

nutab1e

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I am NOT reading all that it's been 2 years

#20

Yistyy

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I brought it up because of people in this thread

https://www.vlr.gg/456678/how-did-eg-win-champs/#36

#22

mustbelupus

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as a huge 2023 eg fan, admittedly that roster was maybe the weakest roster player-wise to ever win a trophy in the history of the game and yet the team looked so strong which makes it all the more impressive

#23

Yistyy

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If you look at the players now, they aren't as good individually, but that year they all looked like some of the best players itw. Kinda like how yay was undoubtedly the best in 2022, but just because he's washed now doesn't mean we should be revisionists and say he was never good. The point is, I don't think the players are the weakest to win a chip, they just haven't been able to find the same success since, which doesn't mean they weren't that good to begin with.

#26

mustbelupus

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yeah just goes to show how having enough synergy and faith in yourselves can turn any team into world beaters which is why eg was so special

#25

dreambasgod

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Demon1 is ass the end

#27

Yistyy

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Nah, coach just needs to take him off entry.

#28

Yamigas

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LOUD 2022 clears

#29

Yistyy

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It's definitely a good debate, and I can for sure see the vision there.

#30

NRGSUPERFAN

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they were the best that tournament but 1 meta change cooks that team. also all the players from that team (except jaw) are not even top 5 in their respective roles anymore making it seem like a fluke.

what they did that year is really good but FNC was deffo better overall.

#31

Yistyy

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I disagree, this team could have easily adapted to any meta shifts, all the players are flexible (yes, even demon1), and Potter could definitely cook something up. "Not top 5" is some crazy recency bias, they were all EASILY top 5 in their roles with how everyone played that year. And even if that was true, that doesn't mean it was a fluke, they clearly outplayed all their opponents. If they didn't that would be grounds for a fluke. Also FNC might have seemed better because of the lack of competition early in the season because rosters hadn't gel'd yet. I can understand and respect the argument that they might have been better than fnc, tho, even if I personally don't agree with it.

#35

NRGSUPERFAN

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4/5 of old EG are not top 5 anymore which is my arguement. if you could only thrive under 1 coach in 1 meta that just further proves how much of a fluke it was even if they outplayed everyone.

Granted we cant for sure know that they couldnt have mantained this level of form since they split up but from what we see from each player right now, i would argue that they wouldnt have done so well further down the line.

also FNC was better. every tactic and comp was taken from them and they quickly figured out the meta. only reason why FNC didnt do well at champs was because they basically played the maximum amount of games a team couldve played.

#38

Yistyy

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if you could only thrive under 1 coach in 1 meta that just further proves how much of a fluke it was even if they outplayed everyone.

Um lol? That's like saying yay's performance in 2022 was a fluke. I don't think you understand what that word means.

Also your fnatic take isn't even true, only 2 of the series they played went to 3 maps. Playing a lot of games is also a bad argument because it didn't affect EG, who played more maps that tournament.

#72

SleepingSnorlax

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Ethan and Jawg still look great but not sure about others

#74

Yistyy

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the others aren't at the same level anymore individually, but that shouldn't detract from how good they used to be.

#32

kingop3n

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luck

#33

Yistyy

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Cope. They were just better than everyone else.

#41

kingop3n

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they got there by luck. MiBR had to beat 100T. that was already goldilocks enough lmao. fnc played Loud, the brackets were so questionable lmao and PRX had a bad map pool. everything was tipped in EGs favour

#43

Yistyy

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The mibr thing was before they even clicked as a team. You have to keep in mind, early in the season they were playing with bcj, so they needed time to gel together. Their season was kinda half cooked because of that, which is why they were even in that spot. I already stated in the post why they would have beaten fnatic. And the prx map pool is not only false, but even if it was true, how does that make EG worse lol.

#34

sergueiessenine

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give prx a mental coach they run over eg

#36

Yistyy

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Run over is a massive over exaggeration, but I can definitely see this argument. I don't agree with it tho, because EG's map pool was deeper than PRX's.

#48

archetype

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it wasn't necessarily deeper lol. EG and PRX literally had the exact same map pool, that's partly why EG won Champs GF

#49

Yistyy

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I disagree, not only is a bo5 the best determinant for which team has a better map pool, but PRX literally had the map advantage and still lost 3-1. And the one map they won, went to 24 rounds, so EG almost defeated them 3-0 even with map disadvantage.

#50

archetype

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EG had the BETTER map pool, but it wasn't DEEPER.

Deeper means they are good at more maps than PRX, which isn't true considering they have the exact same map pool lol.

EG had no map disadvantage because EG and PRX had the exact same permaban and EG knew PRX would ban Fracture after. Potter herself literally said this in an interview somewhere.

#51

Yistyy

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Okay, you make a good point and I can agree with it. But the one thing I will say is it that EG still had a disadvantage, even though they had the information PRX would ban fracture, getting your best map banned and not being able to counter back (my guess would be bind) is still a disadvantage.

#55

archetype

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sure but when you know far in advance that your best map will be banned it's a lot easier to prepare for a rematch. If you think about it, it was basically going to be the same maps in their first matchup + 2 more. That means it's more about refining and fixing mistakes that occurred the first time around and there's actual footage to look at that shows you what went wrong.

#56

Yistyy

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Yeah, you're right man. But I think it goes both ways too, just cuz PRX won their first matchup, doesn't mean they also aren't watching a ton of footage and refining their game. My original point still stands tho, even if it's not a massive disadvantage because EG have the information, doesn't mean it isn't a disadvantage at all, since EG can't respond back and ban one of PRX's best maps.

#58

archetype

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well the biggest difference is that PRX didn't know who they were going to be up against until EG won lower finals, and they didn't have a B team to reliably run scrims against, so fixing mistakes is gonna be a bit harder for them than for EG.

I think the map pool wasn't necessarily disadvantageous for EG because they knew exactly what to fix and had the resources (B team, VOD footage) to do it. Time wise, both PRX and EG were limited, but one team had a scrim partner ready to go at any point during the day, capable of emulating the exact scenarios PRX had forced mistakes in.
EG were the better team, let me clarify, this isn't me detracting from how good they were. Their B team and their intelligence in preparation and management would have gotten them through even if they had a real map disadvantage, but I can't say the map pool wasn't comfortable for them.

#61

Yistyy

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Good points, I see what you mean. I appreciate your analysis, clearly some thought put into it.

continue thread →

#37

Stormyv8

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Here's the thing, there are a lot of "What If"s when we are talking about that roster, because of the roster change.

The best teams from that season (that weren't drastically changing their rosters), if we look at their 2024 form:
FNC : Good in Regionals, but struggled in intl's
PRX : Won 1 regional, but got grouped in champs & bad masters.

Other good teams that were drastically changed their compositions, such as:
LOUD: Only qualified for 1 masters, regressed since
DRX : 5-6th in champs
NRG : No international appearance
NAVI : No international appearance.

(I define "best" teams that finished top 4 in masters/champs) And we have not even talked about their 2025 forms..

My point is, I don't think many of us disregarded their 2023 achievements, but their short lifespan + their break-up IMO hindered their reputation. Like they were undoubtedly the best team in 2023 but saying they will destroy everyone in 2024 is kinda naive with how dynamic the game is.

If anything the roster change kind of preserved their legacy in a good spot, as in if they flop the next year the fluke allegations would be insufferable (not that I think it would happen)

#39

Yistyy

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You make good points, and I agree with most of it. Some things I will add tho, is that I saw people saying their run was luck, flukey, and matchup dependant, which led me to making this post. So there were a lot of people undermining their achievements.

Also I didn't say they would destroy everyone in 2024, I just think they would have won Madrid at least. But that's more speculation and kinda besides the point, so take it with a grain of salt.

#42

kingop3n

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valorant has luck involved. you cannot deny that when their spot at champs was based on arguably one of the worst teams in that year beating a mid team.

#44

Yistyy

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#43

#46

Hyxagon

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i rooted against eg the entirety of champs 23 and even i can agree they looked insane

#52

Zerphyr1

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eg in 2023 were insane but I would still put fnc in tokyo above them

#53

Yistyy

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I can respect this take, even if I don't agree 100%. I only made this post because I saw in another thread everyone was saying 2023 EG's run was only because of a lucky bracket or that loud and prx choked.

#54

Zerphyr1

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those guys are probably newgens

#59

DAIH

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I think they were very good at their peak but they didn't have a better 2023 than Fnatic. You're conveniently leaving out that they were pretty mediocre for like the first 3-4 months and only barely even made it to Tokyo in the first place.

They weren't extremely close to beating Fnatic at Tokyo, that was one of the most dominant tournament performances by any team in Valorant history. Comparatively EG did actually lose a match against Paper Rex on their run to becoming champions and came close to losing against LOUD (3-2 victory including needing overtime on Ascent). Those two tournament runs are not comparable.

Fnatic only lost to 2 teams that entire season, Team Liquid (once, after beating them twice before that series) and LOUD (twice at champs, after beating them before in the LOCK//IN Final). They also only lost 13 maps all season: 6 against LOUD, 3 against Liquid, 1 against BBL, 1 against FUT, 1 against DRX and 1 against EG). Just as a comparison: EG lost 14 maps already before they got to the play offs for the Americas League, and ended the season losing 33 maps total and 11 series total.

The only thing EG has over Fnatic in 2023 is that they had a better record against LOUD (still not a winning record being 2-2 overall though) and the fact that they won Champs which is the biggest tournament (though again, I would say LOCK//IN + Masters is more impressive than just Champs).

I like EG, the run was a true fairytale moment, I loved their playstyle and they proved that they were one of the best teams in the world in 2023 by having two incredible performances back to back at the two biggest tournaments. I also think that the continued succes for most of the EG 2023 players (Boostio improved 100T a lot, Jawgemo was still frying on a heavily weakened EG, C0M made a deep run at Champs again) proves how much individual talent that squad had. However, saying Fnatic was better is not disrespect towards EG, it's just facts.

#63

Aayan

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Well said

#66

Yistyy

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Hi Aayan ^_^

How are you feeling about the grand finals tomorrow?

#68

Aayan

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Pretty excited
tbh I'm happy for either team to win but I want T1 to win slightly more

#65

Yistyy

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You're conveniently leaving out that they were pretty mediocre for like the first 3-4 months and only barely even made it to Tokyo in the first place.

Well that's because demon1 wasn't fully integrated into the team until week 3 of the season. They needed time to gel and synergize as a team. I agree, that they weren't as good before Tokyo, but that shouldn't take away how damn good they became after the regular season ended.

They weren't extremely close to beating Fnatic at Tokyo,

I disagree, they actually were pretty close to beating them. The two series EG played against FNC were very competitive. In the first matchup, FNC almost lost the series if Leo didn't go nuclear and clutch up on split. And the second matchup all 3 maps were very close and could have gone either way.

But your take that Fnatic was better than EG that year is completely respectable. This post is more catered to the dumbasses who said EG only won because of lucky matchups or because PRX and LOUD choked.

#75

monkeyman17

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The thing I hate the most about valorant fans is that they don’t seem to understand that the a players comfort in the role and system he is playing in makes a MASSIVE difference. Like how often do we see players absolutely fry on one team then join another and look like ass. So no, EG 2023 wasn’t a fluke, it was a very good coach putting together 5 players with the ability to play at the highest level who mesh well with each other.

#76

Yistyy

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I 100% agree with you.