I dont understand how this year has debate on the best team of 2024. I believe EDG has the strongest case for 3 facts.
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They won the most titles of any team this year
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They won the most important title this year
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Most champs points of any team
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Best team of 2024
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nihso [#2]No one agrees with you.
but how do you argue with most titles and winning the most important tournament.
Camden [#3]but how do you argue with most titles and winning the most important tournament.
Champs is on par with Masters. Gen.G 5 Grand Finals > Whatever EDG did.
nihso [#4]Champs is on par with Masters. Gen.G 5 Grand Finals > Whatever EDG did.
Champs is literally not on par with masters but do you know whats actually on par with eachother? Regional titles which EDG has more of than GENG. GENG only made 4 grand finals and lost 2 of them while EDG made 3 and won all 3.
SomeoneLikeU [#6]GenG with a masters win and 2nd at another and getting grouped by 2/the top 4 is more impressive than going out in 3 games and 2 games per international till champs.
EDG beat everyone in the top 4, won 2 regional titles and had the most champs points
Camden [#8]EDG beat everyone in the top 4, won 2 regional titles and had the most champs points
Gen.G also won 2 regionals. They also made 2 extra Grand Finals and won 1 of the LANs. I do not know how you're arguing this. This is like saying OPTIC had a worse year than LOUD, or FNC had a worse year than EG.
nihso [#9]Gen.G also won 2 regionals. They also made 2 extra Grand Finals and won 1 of the LANs. I do not know how you're arguing this. This is like saying OPTIC had a worse year than LOUD, or FNC had a worse year than EG.
GenG only won 1 regional title they lost to PRX at the first one. They only made 1 extra grand final. EDG has a 100% finals win rate 3/3 while geng is 2/4. Your information is incorrect
Camden [#10]GenG only won 1 regional title they lost to PRX at the first one. They only made 1 extra grand final. EDG has a 100% finals win rate 3/3 while geng is 2/4. Your information is incorrect
No technically GenG win 2 regional and EDG 3 if u count kickoff finals
_Nonsense [#11]No technically GenG win 2 regional and EDG 3 if u count kickoff finals
Oh i understand my mistake. That does not change my main argument about how EDG has the most titles this year and are 100% winrate in grandfinals. Also I do not actually believe kickoff counts. I don't think prize money was awarded
Lucrix [#13]sadly, no even as the biggest edg glazer, geng deserved this by a mile
I unironically like GENG more but i am just being objective.
yellow_donkey [#15]Objectively it's GENG. EDG's Masters run was really disappointing and this sort of hinders their chance as being named as the 'best team in 2024'. Them winning champs really boost their worth of being top 3 of 2024 tho.
but edg had the most titles and the most important win of the year and the most points. They compete in VCT which is a tour that leads up to champs
Camden [#16]but edg had the most titles and the most important win of the year and the most points. They compete in VCT which is a tour that leads up to champs
When we decide which team should be represented as the best, we look at international placements more than regionals and at the end of the day, international placements are the major stats that matter the most. You can't be choking in masters, bombing out with 1 win or no win but wanting to be called the BEST team in 2024 because you won champs.
Champs is the biggest major, for sure. But 2024? EDG's international tournaments leading up to champions was VERY disappointing so its a HUGEEE no for me.
Camden [#12]Oh i understand my mistake. That does not change my main argument about how EDG has the most titles this year and are 100% winrate in grandfinals. Also I do not actually believe kickoff counts. I don't think prize money was awarded
There was no prize money, correct
Camden [#10]GenG only won 1 regional title they lost to PRX at the first one. They only made 1 extra grand final. EDG has a 100% finals win rate 3/3 while geng is 2/4. Your information is incorrect
2 LAN Grand Finals > 1 LAN Grand Final
if China were a more competitive region, I'd understand the case you're making. but let's be realistic - FPX and Trace were the closest to EDG, and the deepest run either of them made were quarters in internationals. they both upset some good teams, but weren't good enough to do it consistently.
that's to say - the argument that their 3 regional wins in VCT CN make them objectively the best is not as big of a win in the international circuit as it may seem
1cameh [#25]if China were a more competitive region, I'd understand the case you're making. but let's be realistic - FPX and Trace were the closest to EDG, and the deepest run either of them made were quarters in internationals. they both upset some good teams, but weren't good enough to do it consistently.
that's to say - the argument that their 3 regional wins in VCT CN make them objectively the best is not as big of a win in the international circuit as it may seem
kangkang literally said after winning champs that why couldnt a chinese team win. okay so what youre saying is that edgs 3 regional wins arent as impactful as wins on the international circuit however technically everything is just a lead up to champs. basically what im saying is that edg was the most successful team regionally and internationally (by winning the most important tournament) in 2024
C0nfedant [#22]let's be real here
top 1: geng (master 2 winner, master 1 second place, 2 regionals)
top 2: edg (champions winner, 3 regionals)
top 3: sen (master 1 winner, 1 regional, top 4 champ)
yea so the team thats most successful internationally and regionally should be crowned as the best team. In the valorant CHAMPIONS tour i believe the team with the most CHAMPIONS points and the CHAMPIONS winner should be the best team of 2024. That team literally being EDG
Most champs points cause they play in cn and that why they have all three regional trophies as well, cn has some good talent teams but let's be real , they are just two three and none of them can actually beat edg when they play serious , also bro edg heavily underperformed in first two internationals and so having a trophy in the third one doesn't just compensate for the other two,
Camden [#7]Champs is literally not on par with masters but do you know whats actually on par with eachother? Regional titles which EDG has more of than GENG. GENG only made 4 grand finals and lost 2 of them while EDG made 3 and won all 3.
Champs > Masters and NOBODY gives a fuck about Regional Titles
yellow_donkey [#17]When we decide which team should be represented as the best, we look at international placements more than regionals and at the end of the day, international placements are the major stats that matter the most. You can't be choking in masters, bombing out with 1 win or no win but wanting to be called the BEST team in 2024 because you won champs.
Champs is the biggest major, for sure. But 2024? EDG's international tournaments leading up to champions was VERY disappointing so its a HUGEEE no for me.
Yea so EDG has the best international placement because they compete in the VCT valorant CHAMPIONS tour and they won champions so they became the most successful team internationally and leading up to champions they were technically the most successful team having the most CHAMPIONS points as well as being the most successful team regionally
Camden [#7]Champs is literally not on par with masters but do you know whats actually on par with eachother? Regional titles which EDG has more of than GENG. GENG only made 4 grand finals and lost 2 of them while EDG made 3 and won all 3.
no one gives a flying fuck about chinese regional titles. if i put evil geniuses in china, they'd be in every cn grand final this year. apac regional titles are actually harder because more than 2 teams are good in that region.
Camden [#26]kangkang literally said after winning champs that why couldnt a chinese team win. okay so what youre saying is that edgs 3 regional wins arent as impactful as wins on the international circuit however technically everything is just a lead up to champs. basically what im saying is that edg was the most successful team regionally and internationally (by winning the most important tournament) in 2024
the argument that champs is a more important tournament because Riot allocated more points toward it as part of their circuit is bullshit. it is just another tournament.
it has more teams than Masters tournaments, but EDG was absent in comparison to other top teams at every other international event other than Champions
1cameh [#36]the argument that champs is a more important tournament because Riot allocated more points toward it as part of their circuit is bullshit. it is just another tournament.
it has more teams than Masters tournaments, but EDG was absent in comparison to other top teams at every other international event other than Champions
Riot makes the entire year revolve around champions. Champions has the largest prize pool. Teams even qualifying for champions generates a lot of money for the orgs. Champions is not the same as masters
1cameh [#36]the argument that champs is a more important tournament because Riot allocated more points toward it as part of their circuit is bullshit. it is just another tournament.
it has more teams than Masters tournaments, but EDG was absent in comparison to other top teams at every other international event other than Champions
winning champions made you more than madrid and shanghai combined
1cameh [#36]the argument that champs is a more important tournament because Riot allocated more points toward it as part of their circuit is bullshit. it is just another tournament.
it has more teams than Masters tournaments, but EDG was absent in comparison to other top teams at every other international event other than Champions
Masters used to be a regional tournament. Champions has always been an international tournament
nobody___100 [#34]no one gives a flying fuck about chinese regional titles. if i put evil geniuses in china, they'd be in every cn grand final this year. apac regional titles are actually harder because more than 2 teams are good in that region.
all regions are equal but winning champions is the equivalent prize pool wise as winning 2 masters
kanyefan4238173 [#29]id prefer edwards year to everyone elses.
they werent the best team of the year but they had the best year ykwim?
it’s the thought that counts!
1cameh [#36]the argument that champs is a more important tournament because Riot allocated more points toward it as part of their circuit is bullshit. it is just another tournament.
it has more teams than Masters tournaments, but EDG was absent in comparison to other top teams at every other international event other than Champions
id say maybe in 2021 and 2022 this statement is true but in 2023 and 2024 the prize money for winning champs skyrocketed to a million making it worth more than both masters combined
KClaw [#30]Most champs points cause they play in cn and that why they have all three regional trophies as well, cn has some good talent teams but let's be real , they are just two three and none of them can actually beat edg when they play serious , also bro edg heavily underperformed in first two internationals and so having a trophy in the third one doesn't just compensate for the other two,
If we consider placements at all 3 international tournaments they won the most money across all 3 tournaments. So we got a team that ended the year with
the most important international win
made the most money
had the most titles
had the most champions points
Camden [#42]id say maybe in 2021 and 2022 this statement is true but in 2023 and 2024 the prize money for winning champs skyrocketed to a million making it worth more than both masters combined
what does money have to do with anything? you think teams try more because there's more money?
the teams care about winning. the prize money is second.
1cameh [#44]what does money have to do with anything? you think teams try more because there's more money?
the teams care about winning. the prize money is second.
So you are basically telling me that you still believe that champs is equal to a masters when the VCT is basically just a tour leading up to champs. And youre telling me that the best team in 2024 isnt the team that had the most champs points, most titles, won the most money. champs having a 1st prize equal to 4x madrid 1st places and almost 3x shanghai 1st places.
kanyefan4238173 [#29]id prefer edwards year to everyone elses.
they werent the best team of the year but they had the best year ykwim?
But why aren’t they the best team of the year
-most titles
- most successful regionally
- most successful internationally
- most champs points
- won the most important tournament
- highest prize pool earnings
Look man be honest and tell me straight to my face that GenG in Shnaghai form would have lost to Edg. Only reason TH list is because they are a team of rookies that always choke BO5s. Edg might have won some regional titles, but they looked like an absolute clusterfuck of a team through 80% of the year, and they only turned up for champs. Also China would be a bum region with 0 good teams without Edg, so regional titles mean jackshit for them. Pissific is shit but at least they have some decent teams like Drx and PRX. Chinas #2 seed shit the bed big time after 1 close series against TH. Edg played very well, I can’t deny that, but if fnatic, g2, lev, sen, geng, and th didn’t kill each other first, one of them would have lifted the trophy. Run this tourney back rn and edg are out round 2. Genuinely look into your soul and ask yourself if you actually think that Edg are even in consideration for best team of the year, let alone actually the best.
Two_Percent [#49]Read the room retard
I get that everyone disagrees but based off the hard evidence how can you say EDG aren’t the clear cut best team of 2024. I feel that people are using their bias because they think GenG deserve it
yellow_donkey [#17]When we decide which team should be represented as the best, we look at international placements more than regionals and at the end of the day, international placements are the major stats that matter the most. You can't be choking in masters, bombing out with 1 win or no win but wanting to be called the BEST team in 2024 because you won champs.
Champs is the biggest major, for sure. But 2024? EDG's international tournaments leading up to champions was VERY disappointing so its a HUGEEE no for me.
Based off international placement EDG won the most money by a long shot
Two_Percent [#47]Look man be honest and tell me straight to my face that GenG in Shnaghai form would have lost to Edg. Only reason TH list is because they are a team of rookies that always choke BO5s. Edg might have won some regional titles, but they looked like an absolute clusterfuck of a team through 80% of the year, and they only turned up for champs. Also China would be a bum region with 0 good teams without Edg, so regional titles mean jackshit for them. Pissific is shit but at least they have some decent teams like Drx and PRX. Chinas #2 seed shit the bed big time after 1 close series against TH. Edg played very well, I can’t deny that, but if fnatic, g2, lev, sen, geng, and th didn’t kill each other first, one of them would have lifted the trophy. Run this tourney back rn and edg are out round 2. Genuinely look into your soul and ask yourself if you actually think that Edg are even in consideration for best team of the year, let alone actually the best.
#52
Two_Percent [#47]Look man be honest and tell me straight to my face that GenG in Shnaghai form would have lost to Edg. Only reason TH list is because they are a team of rookies that always choke BO5s. Edg might have won some regional titles, but they looked like an absolute clusterfuck of a team through 80% of the year, and they only turned up for champs. Also China would be a bum region with 0 good teams without Edg, so regional titles mean jackshit for them. Pissific is shit but at least they have some decent teams like Drx and PRX. Chinas #2 seed shit the bed big time after 1 close series against TH. Edg played very well, I can’t deny that, but if fnatic, g2, lev, sen, geng, and th didn’t kill each other first, one of them would have lifted the trophy. Run this tourney back rn and edg are out round 2. Genuinely look into your soul and ask yourself if you actually think that Edg are even in consideration for best team of the year, let alone actually the best.
Also to answer the question it really depends if we are playing in this current map pool or the Shanghai map pool
It also depends if it’s bo5
They played in Madrid we know GenG got a little better by Shanghai and we know EDG got a lot better later on
EDG destroyed them on icebox
Geng destroyed EDG on split and breeze but breeze and split are out of map pool
nihso [#4]Champs is on par with Masters. Gen.G 5 Grand Finals > Whatever EDG did.
EDG had 4 grand finals
Gen G won 3/5
EDG won 4/4
Also, champs is a level much higher than masters
merciless-pity8989-89 [#55]EDG had 4 grand finals
Gen G won 3/5
EDG won 4/4Also, champs is a level much higher than masters
thank you
nobody___100 [#34]no one gives a flying fuck about chinese regional titles. if i put evil geniuses in china, they'd be in every cn grand final this year. apac regional titles are actually harder because more than 2 teams are good in that region.
CN had 2 teams in playoffs, APAC had 1. stage 2 cn > stage 2 pacific\
EG dont make top 5 in cn as well
Camden [#52]You’re making up hypothetical but the clear fact of the matter is that EDG had the most successful year.
Won the most money internationally and regionally
4/4 grand finals wins
Most champs points
Won champs
Can all themselves world champions (riot don’t call masters winner world champions)
1) I don’t give a fuck about prize money, that doesn’t determine which team is good or not (players play to win, not for prize money)
2) Again, 3/4 of their grand finals were against FPX, a team that literally has no business being considered a good team
3) again, they get champs points from farming shitty Chinese teams that can barely play the game
4) explain to me how a champions win is better than a masters win. Idfc about the money or venue or hype, just explain how it takes more skill and effort to win a champs trophy. “oH iT hAs FoUr MoRe TeAmS” yeah bs teams like kru blg and talon just embarrass themselves by shitting the bed in groups
if the question is asking best team of the entire year, then the fact that EDG bombed out of the first 2 international LANS should automatically disqualify them as the absolute #1. regional accomplishments hold far less weight because we have to include all other regions to answer this question, and international results are the biggest factor to this. sure champs was the most important tournament, but it doesn't make up for showing 0 success in 2 out of the 3 global tournaments in the year
Loomer [#59]if the question is asking best team of the entire year, then the fact that EDG bombed out of the first 2 international LANS should automatically disqualify them as the absolute #1. regional accomplishments hold far less weight because we have to include all other regions to answer this question, and international results are the biggest factor to this. sure champs was the most important tournament, but it doesn't make up for showing 0 success in 2 out of the 3 global tournaments in the year
but EDG won the most prize money when totaling all 3 international lans
Camden [#60]but EDG won the most prize money when totaling all 3 international lans
yeah bc riot put the most money into champions. doesn't excuse only 1 international match win prior to champs
Camden [#54]Also to answer the question it really depends if we are playing in this current map pool or the Shanghai map pool
It also depends if it’s bo5
They played in Madrid we know GenG got a little better by Shanghai and we know EDG got a lot better later on
EDG destroyed them on icebox
Geng destroyed EDG on split and breeze but breeze and split are out of map pool
I don’t give a shit about map pools or their performance a million months ago.
The fact is this:
Gen G won kickoff fair and square. I’m not going to argue that it was dominant, because they were given tough matches by teams like RRQ and PRX, but nonetheless they won kickoff.
Gen G looked extremely dominant in Madrid, but got barely edged out by Sen, who were also a serious force
They cooled down in split 1, but still were dominant over 90% of pissific, getting 2nd place.
They shit on everyone in Shanghai, havinng a performance rivaling Fnc at Tokyo, despite the fact that they had almost no supporters, barely any teams wanted to scrim with them, and on top of that the team was sick.
Cooled down again split 2, although still looking dominant especially towards the end, getting 1st seed champs
Got grouped in champs to a fully rejuvenated sen roster and an eventual 2nd place TH (Although I will admit their second game against sen didn’t make them look too hot)
Compare this to EDG:
1st place in Kickoff, split 1, and split 2. Sounds insane on paper, and even though it does show that they are clearly the best in the region, their only competition was FPX, which were obviously not a force to be reckoned with. EVEN THOUGH they placed first in split 1+2, they still lost to literal bottom of the barrel teams like DRG and wolves, but hey, it’s league play so I won’t hold it against them.
Grouped in Madrid, initially beating a new PRX, where they did play pretty well, only to get fucking bodied by Loud, in one of the most embarrassing matters in VCT history.
Bombed out in Shanghai, I don’t really remember much of them in that tournament, mostly because they only played 2 games lol, but hey, it happens and I can’t hold 1 bad tournament against them too much
Played out of their minds during champs. I will admit, Edg deserved the trophy. But to be fair, they were riding a hot wave. If during any point Chichoo, smoggy, or kk didn’t go crazy, they would have been eliminated by Sen, Lev, or th. Not to mention they got an extremely easy placement, being drawn into trace r1. Th on the other hand had to go against Fnc, Lev, Drx, and Sen to get to GF. If we were to compare these teams objective skill in champs, and not just Edg players feeling it, teams like Th, lev, or sen played objectively better valorant, they just didn’t have Lady Luck on their sides and had to play much harder teams to get to were they were.
In conclusion: Yes, edg deserved to win champs, part of winning a tournament involves showing up performance wise for the day, and getting good draws, and I can’t hold that against edg. On the other hand, though, other teams were dealt with much worse circumstances and provided better results than edg for most of the tournament (the only time edg played like the best team in the world was in UF and GF) and if we were to run these matches again, or even compare average skill, peak skill, or any metric, edg at most gets to top 3 teams throughout the entire year, and that too is a stretch. Learn the difference between whether a team wins a tournament vs their individual prowess and skill throughout a season.
Two_Percent [#62]I don’t give a shit about map pools or their performance a million months ago.
The fact is this:
Gen G won kickoff fair and square. I’m not going to argue that it was dominant, because they were given tough matches by teams like RRQ and PRX, but nonetheless they won kickoff.
Gen G looked extremely dominant in Madrid, but got barely edged out by Sen, who were also a serious force
They cooled down in split 1, but still were dominant over 90% of pissific, getting 2nd place.
They shit on everyone in Shanghai, havinng a performance rivaling Fnc at Tokyo, despite the fact that they had almost no supporters, barely any teams wanted to scrim with them, and on top of that the team was sick.
Cooled down again split 2, although still looking dominant especially towards the end, getting 1st seed champs
Got grouped in champs to a fully rejuvenated sen roster and an eventual 2nd place TH (Although I will admit their second game against sen didn’t make them look too hot)
Compare this to EDG:
1st place in Kickoff, split 1, and split 2. Sounds insane on paper, and even though it does show that they are clearly the best in the region, their only competition was FPX, which were obviously not a force to be reckoned with. EVEN THOUGH they placed first in split 1+2, they still lost to literal bottom of the barrel teams like DRG and wolves, but hey, it’s league play so I won’t hold it against them.
Grouped in Madrid, initially beating a new PRX, where they did play pretty well, only to get fucking bodied by Loud, in one of the most embarrassing matters in VCT history.
Bombed out in Shanghai, I don’t really remember much of them in that tournament, mostly because they only played 2 games lol, but hey, it happens and I can’t hold 1 bad tournament against them too much
Played out of their minds during champs. I will admit, Edg deserved the trophy. But to be fair, they were riding a hot wave. If during any point Chichoo, smoggy, or kk didn’t go crazy, they would have been eliminated by Sen, Lev, or th. Not to mention they got an extremely easy placement, being drawn into trace r1. Th on the other hand had to go against Fnc, Lev, Drx, and Sen to get to GF. If we were to compare these teams objective skill in champs, and not just Edg players feeling it, teams like Th, lev, or sen played objectively better valorant, they just didn’t have Lady Luck on their sides and had to play much harder teams to get to were they were.
In conclusion: Yes, edg deserved to win champs, part of winning a tournament involves showing up performance wise for the day, and getting good draws, and I can’t hold that against edg. On the other hand, though, other teams were dealt with much worse circumstances and provided better results than edg for most of the tournament (the only time edg played like the best team in the world was in UF and GF) and if we were to run these matches again, or even compare average skill, peak skill, or any metric, edg at most gets to top 3 teams throughout the entire year, and that too is a stretch. Learn the difference between whether a team wins a tournament vs their individual prowess and skill throughout a season.
well if you dont care about map pools in this current map pool id side with EDG champs form over GENG in shanghai form but without breeze and split.
Idk how you can compare a master win to a champs win bc a second place at champs give you more money than either 1st place masters win
Camden [#63]well if you dont care about map pools in this current map pool id side with EDG champs form over GENG in shanghai form but without breeze and split.
Idk how you can compare a master win to a champs win bc a second place at champs give you more money than either 1st place masters win
Why are you so insistent on prize money? It plays no role in how good a team is. If we cared about money TSM would still be the best team in the world. Use your brain before your keyboard
Camden [#50]I get that everyone disagrees but based off the hard evidence how can you say EDG aren’t the clear cut best team of 2024. I feel that people are using their bias because they think GenG deserve it
No one said Gen G deserved champs. We said that Edg winning champs (a win they deserved) doesn’t prove that they are the best team of the year. You’re trying to shoot down points that no one provided
Camden [#45]So you are basically telling me that you still believe that champs is equal to a masters when the VCT is basically just a tour leading up to champs. And youre telling me that the best team in 2024 isnt the team that had the most champs points, most titles, won the most money. champs having a 1st prize equal to 4x madrid 1st places and almost 3x shanghai 1st places.
You aren’t answering the key question: What does money earned have to do with how good a team is?
Two_Percent [#68]You aren’t answering the key question: What does money earned have to do with how good a team is?
because in esports the prize pool determine the tier of tournament it is. Thats what makes regionals less than masters and masters less than champions
Camden [#48]EDG won 4/4 lan grand finals
Buddy china doesn’t count. Fpx/Te were the only competition and the most they’ve ever done is upset like 1 good team. China is literally a 1 team region by definition
Camden [#51]Based off international placement EDG won the most money by a long shot
Bro thinks the amount of money won = skill. Where do you get this idea?? Explain to me I want to be as enlightened or crack pipe high as you are
Two_Percent [#62]I don’t give a shit about map pools or their performance a million months ago.
The fact is this:
Gen G won kickoff fair and square. I’m not going to argue that it was dominant, because they were given tough matches by teams like RRQ and PRX, but nonetheless they won kickoff.
Gen G looked extremely dominant in Madrid, but got barely edged out by Sen, who were also a serious force
They cooled down in split 1, but still were dominant over 90% of pissific, getting 2nd place.
They shit on everyone in Shanghai, havinng a performance rivaling Fnc at Tokyo, despite the fact that they had almost no supporters, barely any teams wanted to scrim with them, and on top of that the team was sick.
Cooled down again split 2, although still looking dominant especially towards the end, getting 1st seed champs
Got grouped in champs to a fully rejuvenated sen roster and an eventual 2nd place TH (Although I will admit their second game against sen didn’t make them look too hot)
Compare this to EDG:
1st place in Kickoff, split 1, and split 2. Sounds insane on paper, and even though it does show that they are clearly the best in the region, their only competition was FPX, which were obviously not a force to be reckoned with. EVEN THOUGH they placed first in split 1+2, they still lost to literal bottom of the barrel teams like DRG and wolves, but hey, it’s league play so I won’t hold it against them.
Grouped in Madrid, initially beating a new PRX, where they did play pretty well, only to get fucking bodied by Loud, in one of the most embarrassing matters in VCT history.
Bombed out in Shanghai, I don’t really remember much of them in that tournament, mostly because they only played 2 games lol, but hey, it happens and I can’t hold 1 bad tournament against them too much
Played out of their minds during champs. I will admit, Edg deserved the trophy. But to be fair, they were riding a hot wave. If during any point Chichoo, smoggy, or kk didn’t go crazy, they would have been eliminated by Sen, Lev, or th. Not to mention they got an extremely easy placement, being drawn into trace r1. Th on the other hand had to go against Fnc, Lev, Drx, and Sen to get to GF. If we were to compare these teams objective skill in champs, and not just Edg players feeling it, teams like Th, lev, or sen played objectively better valorant, they just didn’t have Lady Luck on their sides and had to play much harder teams to get to were they were.
In conclusion: Yes, edg deserved to win champs, part of winning a tournament involves showing up performance wise for the day, and getting good draws, and I can’t hold that against edg. On the other hand, though, other teams were dealt with much worse circumstances and provided better results than edg for most of the tournament (the only time edg played like the best team in the world was in UF and GF) and if we were to run these matches again, or even compare average skill, peak skill, or any metric, edg at most gets to top 3 teams throughout the entire year, and that too is a stretch. Learn the difference between whether a team wins a tournament vs their individual prowess and skill throughout a season.
"teams like Th, lev, or sen played objectively better valorant" eh that's just not entirely true. Zmjjkk and S1mon's teamplay was arguably the best of the tournament. That was objectively excellent valorant. You really were not seeing flash initiators and duelists THAT coordinated and that successful with their plays and timings. Also Nobody outcalled every igl in the tournament except valyn. He definitely called some rough maps (Haven against TH) but for a new igl he called objectively great site executes. EDG definitely played good valorant with actual teamwork. If they were playing 'chinese valorant' like FPX does they wouldn't have won shit.
Camden [#69]because in esports the prize pool determine the tier of tournament it is. Thats what makes regionals less than masters and masters less than champions
Players play to win to prove that they are the best in the world at that given moment, not for any amount of money. Simple as that. Money is there so there is an objective reward for winning. If I were to have a race at an elementary school for $500,000 prize money but host an Olympics race with $25,000 prize money that doesn’t mean the elementary school race is more important, does it? There can be multiple prizes for winning, but the biggest is the claim for being the best in the world at that given moment, not whatever bs argument that you’re presenting “oh more money won equals team better duhhhhh”
I would put EDG around 3rd best team this year. Some don't believe they were better than SEN but I think they were considering they made it to all 3 internationals and beat SEN to win champs. But GENG were the better team. Not just looking at stats, but just use your eyes. GENG played unbelievably good valorant. Like out of this world good and their Shanghai form was unmatched.
charleser [#72]"teams like Th, lev, or sen played objectively better valorant" eh that's just not entirely true. Zmjjkk and S1mon's teamplay was arguably the best of the tournament. That was objectively excellent valorant. You really were not seeing flash initiators and duelists THAT coordinated and that successful with their plays and timings. Also Nobody outcalled every igl in the tournament except valyn. He definitely called some rough maps (Haven against TH) but for a new igl he called objectively great site executes. EDG definitely played good valorant with actual teamwork. If they were playing 'chinese valorant' like FPX does they wouldn't have won shit.
THIS is a valid take. I would disagree by saying that the amount of top teams that edg had to take down was much less (only Sen, lev, and Th), but I’m not going to deny that they played kino valorant
Camden [#60]but EDG won the most prize money when totaling all 3 international lans
prize pool ≁ difficulty/skill
EDG were the best team at champs, that's why they won it.
But that doesn't make them the best of the whole year end of.
Two_Percent [#71]Bro thinks the amount of money won = skill. Where do you get this idea?? Explain to me I want to be as enlightened or crack pipe high as you are
regardless of the money champs is still way more important than master. Riot themselves say EDG are the world champions when they won while when GenG and Sen won masters they just say masters winners. so we refer to how 3 regionals < 2 masters < 1 champs. We are comparing a team with all 3 regionals and 1 champs to a team with 1 masters and 2 regionals. You are arguing the placement of EDG and GENG at the other international tournaments so i use prize awarded by riot to determine the worth of each placement. EDG placed at all 3 international tournaments totaling a grand total prize pool winnings over any other team
Camden [#77]regardless of the money champs is still way more important than master. Riot themselves say EDG are the world champions when they won while when GenG and Sen won masters they just say masters winners. so we refer to how 3 regionals < 2 masters < 1 champs. We are comparing a team with all 3 regionals and 1 champs to a team with 1 masters and 2 regionals. You are arguing the placement of EDG and GENG at the other international tournaments so i use prize awarded by riot to determine the worth of each placement. EDG placed at all 3 international tournaments totaling a grand total prize pool winnings over any other team
I don’t care what riot says, I don’t care about prize money, just explain to me: how does winning champs prove that you’re a better team than winning a masters. Don’t give me bs answers about prize money, titles, hype, venues, or any of that bs. Answer the question straight
Two_Percent [#78]I don’t care what riot says, I don’t care about prize money, just explain to me: how does winning champs prove that you’re a better team than winning a masters. Don’t give me bs answers about prize money, titles, hype, venues, or any of that bs. Answer the question straight
because you have the title of "world champions" you can literally call yourselves the best in the world. 17 teams have won a masters and 4 teams have won a champions
Camden [#77]regardless of the money champs is still way more important than master. Riot themselves say EDG are the world champions when they won while when GenG and Sen won masters they just say masters winners. so we refer to how 3 regionals < 2 masters < 1 champs. We are comparing a team with all 3 regionals and 1 champs to a team with 1 masters and 2 regionals. You are arguing the placement of EDG and GENG at the other international tournaments so i use prize awarded by riot to determine the worth of each placement. EDG placed at all 3 international tournaments totaling a grand total prize pool winnings over any other team
how can you say "regardless of money" and then go back to using the total prize pool argument?? also edg "placing" at all 3 internationals means missing playoffs in madrid and not winning a game in shanghai. thats 2 out of 3 international tournaments in the year that they didnt do well in, which means they are not the best for the whole year
Camden [#79]because you have the title of "world champions" you can literally call yourselves the best in the world. 17 teams have won a masters and 4 teams have won a champions
I don’t care about the title!! Call yourself whatever, but how does that make you a better team throughout the ENTIRE year?? If you said the best team at champs, then ok, there is a valid argument to be made, but 1 title doesn’t determine your overall performance throughout a year!
Loomer [#80]how can you say "regardless of money" and then go back to using the total prize pool argument?? also edg "placing" at all 3 internationals means missing playoffs in madrid and not winning a game in shanghai. thats 2 out of 3 international tournaments in the year that they didnt do well in, which means they are not the best for the whole year
well obviously their not the best team throughout the whole year or else they wouldve won all 6 tournaments but overall 2024 theyve had the best year
Two_Percent [#81]I don’t care about the title!! Call yourself whatever, but how does that make you a better team throughout the ENTIRE year?? If you said the best team at champs, then ok, there is a valid argument to be made, but 1 title doesn’t determine your overall performance throughout a year!
well throughout the whole year their are 6 tournaments. obviously they didnt win all 6 tournaments thoughout the year so at some points they weren't the best. If we look at the overall year they've definitely achieved the most by winning the most titles. just remember 3 regionals < 2 masters < 1 champs. im taking the 2024 team that won 3 regionals and 1 champs over a 1 masters 2 regionals team
Camden [#83]well throughout the whole year their are 6 tournaments. obviously they didnt win all 6 tournaments thoughout the year so at some points they weren't the best. If we look at the overall year they've definitely achieved the most by winning the most titles. just remember 3 regionals < 2 masters < 1 champs. im taking the 2024 team that won 3 regionals and 1 champs over a 1 masters 2 regionals team
Where does this logic come from lil bro. How does winning champs mean you are a better team than if you win a masters. They are both international events with large amounts of competitive teams
Look man, explain one thing to me and I will understand your argument completely without question: How does winning a champions mean you are a better team than winning a masters? Don’t give me any bs about titles, prize money, or whatever riot says. Answer the question fair and square without dodging anything.
Two_Percent [#70]Buddy china doesn’t count. Fpx/Te were the only competition and the most they’ve ever done is upset like 1 good team. China is literally a 1 team region by definition
how is saying china doesnt count even a point?
Two_Percent [#84]Where does this logic come from lil bro. How does winning champs mean you are a better team than if you win a masters. They are both international events with large amounts of competitive teams
idk how you believe that the VCT valorant champions tour has a masters equal to a champions. masters winners literally award champions points in which EDG still had the most of. Theres 17 masters winners and 4 champions winners. Do you think that the nbas mid season tournament is equivalent to the nba championship or msi is equal to worlds?
Camden [#82]well obviously their not the best team throughout the whole year or else they wouldve won all 6 tournaments but overall 2024 theyve had the best year
“Best year”:
1st place kickoff, split 1+2 in Cn (means nothing bc most of these teams play worse than teams from 2021) all the while losing to some of the worst teams imaginable (Drg, Wolves, etc)
Bombed out of both Shanghai and Madrid with abysmal (to say the least) performances.
Played really well at champs
Ok so they had 1 good international lan
Camden [#82]well obviously their not the best team throughout the whole year or else they wouldve won all 6 tournaments but overall 2024 theyve had the best year
even then that's not even remotely true. regionals are nothing more than qualifications and seedings for internationals. making 2 international grand finals and winning 1 is far more relevant to the question of having the best overall year than winning one after bombing out most of the year
Two_Percent [#88]“Best year”:
1st place kickoff, split 1+2 in Cn (means nothing bc most of these teams play worse than teams from 2021) all the while losing to some of the worst teams imaginable (Drg, Wolves, etc)
Bombed out of both Shanghai and Madrid with abysmal (to say the least) performances.
Played really well at champs
Ok so they had 1 good international lan
so i dont get your arguement. You basically say that masters = champs but china region < every other region. Youre downplaying EDGs achievements. The reality of the situation is champs > masters > all regionals
Camden [#87]idk how you believe that the VCT valorant champions tour has a masters equal to a champions. masters winners literally award champions points in which EDG still had the most of. Theres 17 masters winners and 4 champions winners. Do you think that the nbas mid season tournament is equivalent to the nba championship or msi is equal to worlds?
Explain this: how is a team winning champions better than a team winning a masters (considering both are at their tourney winning form) I agree that champs is more important due to the venue, the fact that it’s the big tournament of the year, and the prize money, but that doesn’t mean that it’s any more of a win. Teams play as hard to win during a masters, and just because there aren’t as many rewards shouldn’t discredit their win (only case where you can argue an exception is Madrid, as there were only 8 teams)
I DO believe winning a champions title is more important for a team, as it is the biggest and last tournament of the year, but that doesn’t mean that a team that wins champs is any better than a team winning a masters.
If we’re looking at Edg at their peak (champs) vs suppose Gen G at their peak (Shanghai) the fact that edg won champs doesn’t make them better in any way. Sure, it might make them more important, but it’s not a valid reason to argue that they are better whatsoever
Camden [#86]how is saying china doesnt count even a point?
edg never loses in their region cause the majority of their teams are shit. dont act stupid
Loomer [#89]even then that's not even remotely true. regionals are nothing more than qualifications and seedings for internationals. making 2 international grand finals and winning 1 is far more relevant to the question of having the best overall year than winning one after bombing out most of the year
you can say the same thing for winning masters its literally giving champs points for qualification for champs. In which edg had the most points
Camden [#93]you can say the same thing for winning masters its literally giving champs points for qualification for champs. In which edg had the most points
except international placements are the direct determination of the best teams over the course of the year. and since edg did not even come close to placing top 3 in the first 2 international tournaments, they did not have the best overall year
Two_Percent [#85]Look man, explain one thing to me and I will understand your argument completely without question: How does winning a champions mean you are a better team than winning a masters? Don’t give me any bs about titles, prize money, or whatever riot says. Answer the question fair and square without dodging anything.
I'd love to see his answer that's anything besides fucking prize pool amounts and regional qualifiers because I haven't seen anything that's not those yet
Camden [#33]Yea so EDG has the best international placement because they compete in the VCT valorant CHAMPIONS tour and they won champions so they became the most successful team internationally and leading up to champions they were technically the most successful team having the most CHAMPIONS points as well as being the most successful team regionally
you are repeating yourself and just not reading my points AT ALL.
Camden [#63]well if you dont care about map pools in this current map pool id side with EDG champs form over GENG in shanghai form but without breeze and split.
Idk how you can compare a master win to a champs win bc a second place at champs give you more money than either 1st place masters win
dont care about map pool -> GENG still clears.
'Money" is never a factor in determining whos better.
If we talk about consistency in international.
EDG only amazing in Champs, but really flop in Master Madrid and Shanghai, also lose to G2 and ofter lose map 1
SEN, great in Madrid, show how their mentality win the game, lose fundamental in stage 1 and stage 2 and regain it in Champs
Gen.G, 2nd best in Madrid, win Shanghai, lose to TH (banger match) and SEN (mentality and map pool)
TH, didn't win any international but 2 twice as runner up, never lose to bad team
We have top 4 but no absolute #1 Team
Two_Percent [#58]1) I don’t give a fuck about prize money, that doesn’t determine which team is good or not (players play to win, not for prize money)
2) Again, 3/4 of their grand finals were against FPX, a team that literally has no business being considered a good team
3) again, they get champs points from farming shitty Chinese teams that can barely play the game
4) explain to me how a champions win is better than a masters win. Idfc about the money or venue or hype, just explain how it takes more skill and effort to win a champs trophy. “oH iT hAs FoUr MoRe TeAmS” yeah bs teams like kru blg and talon just embarrass themselves by shitting the bed in groups
are you pulling the 4 extra teams from the 3rd seeds or circuit point qualifiers bc that can be TH or SEN. Champs it takes more games to win the tourney than masters.
Two_Percent [#64]Why are you so insistent on prize money? It plays no role in how good a team is. If we cared about money TSM would still be the best team in the world. Use your brain before your keyboard
what are you saying im not talking about random orgs money I'm talking about the prize pool which is literally what determines the difference between an S tier tournament and a B tier tournament
Cezka000 [#99]If we talk about consistency in international.
EDG only amazing in Champs, but really flop in Master Madrid and Shanghai, also lose to G2 and ofter lose map 1
SEN, great in Madrid, show how their mentality win the game, lose fundamental in stage 1 and stage 2 and regain it in Champs
Gen.G, 2nd best in Madrid, win Shanghai, lose to TH (banger match) and SEN (mentality and map pool)
TH, didn't win any international but 2 twice as runner up, never lose to bad teamWe have top 4 but no absolute #1 Team
Everyone keeps saying international consistancy but if you average GENG's placings with EDG placings they are almost the same. TH has the most "consistent placement" so are they the best team of 2024?
Two_Percent [#85]Look man, explain one thing to me and I will understand your argument completely without question: How does winning a champions mean you are a better team than winning a masters? Don’t give me any bs about titles, prize money, or whatever riot says. Answer the question fair and square without dodging anything.
champions is a bigger tournament and more important than a masters but it does not necessarily mean u had a better year as a whole
Two_Percent [#88]“Best year”:
1st place kickoff, split 1+2 in Cn (means nothing bc most of these teams play worse than teams from 2021) all the while losing to some of the worst teams imaginable (Drg, Wolves, etc)
Bombed out of both Shanghai and Madrid with abysmal (to say the least) performances.
Played really well at champs
Ok so they had 1 good international lan
so if we average out GenG international placings we get 4.5 and if we average out EDG placings they are slightly behind at 4.6 but TH would average 3.8. So would you say that TH is the best team of 2024?
Loomer [#95]except international placements are the direct determination of the best teams over the course of the year. and since edg did not even come close to placing top 3 in the first 2 international tournaments, they did not have the best overall year
so if we average out the placements GENG had 4.5, EDG had 4.6, TH had 3.8 would you say TH had the best overall year?
Two_Percent [#73]Players play to win to prove that they are the best in the world at that given moment, not for any amount of money. Simple as that. Money is there so there is an objective reward for winning. If I were to have a race at an elementary school for $500,000 prize money but host an Olympics race with $25,000 prize money that doesn’t mean the elementary school race is more important, does it? There can be multiple prizes for winning, but the biggest is the claim for being the best in the world at that given moment, not whatever bs argument that you’re presenting “oh more money won equals team better duhhhhh”
So since you bring up the olympics. What makes the 100m in the olympics any different from the 100m at the world athletics championship. They are the same race right with the same athletes competing just like champions vs masters. The difference is the prestige that we set to it also the frequency. Valorant champions is 100% more prestige and has only happened 4 times vs the 17 masters tournaments. Olympics happen every 4 years and the world athletic championships happen every 2 years
Two_Percent [#58]1) I don’t give a fuck about prize money, that doesn’t determine which team is good or not (players play to win, not for prize money)
2) Again, 3/4 of their grand finals were against FPX, a team that literally has no business being considered a good team
3) again, they get champs points from farming shitty Chinese teams that can barely play the game
4) explain to me how a champions win is better than a masters win. Idfc about the money or venue or hype, just explain how it takes more skill and effort to win a champs trophy. “oH iT hAs FoUr MoRe TeAmS” yeah bs teams like kru blg and talon just embarrass themselves by shitting the bed in groups
refer to #106
Camden [#106]So since you bring up the olympics. What makes the 100m in the olympics any different from the 100m at the world athletics championship. They are the same race right with the same athletes competing just like champions vs masters. The difference is the prestige that we set to it also the frequency. Valorant champions is 100% more prestige and has only happened 4 times vs the 17 masters tournaments. Olympics happen every 4 years and the world athletic championships happen every 2 years
EDG won the most titles of the year - regionally, they are the best. At the world stage, they won Champions. They have the most accolades of any team, objectively
But they aren't the best team of the year
Camden [#105]so if we average out the placements GENG had 4.5, EDG had 4.6, TH had 3.8 would you say TH had the best overall year?
no, because none of their placements resulted in wins. it is the combination of global tournament wins and placement of the ones they didnt win. global placements take precedence over all other factors when we're talking about the best team of 2024. and the fact is gen g made 2 grand finals in the internationals and won 1, giving them the best argument for team of the year
1cameh [#108]EDG won the most titles of the year - regionally, they are the best. At the world stage, they won Champions. They have the most accolades of any team, objectively
But they aren't the best team of the year
Okay so the main argument i hear against EDG is that they didn't perform internationally, however GENG had an average placement of 4.5 place while EDG had a slightly worse placement of 4.6. TH had the best at 3.8.
So with this information added to information already provided on how they are the best regionally and internationally only behind Th and slightly behind GENG. Dont you think that since EDG won the most important tournament and their average placement is 0.1 different from GENG that you would have to give the edge to EDG on the international stage?
fawning [#65]mid all year until it mattered, not the best.
IDK how they are mid "all year" if they had the most champions points. 1/5 teams to qualify for all 3 lans. The only team to qualify as the 1st seed at all 3 lans. Finally 1/3 teams to win one the lans
Two_Percent [#91]Explain this: how is a team winning champions better than a team winning a masters (considering both are at their tourney winning form) I agree that champs is more important due to the venue, the fact that it’s the big tournament of the year, and the prize money, but that doesn’t mean that it’s any more of a win. Teams play as hard to win during a masters, and just because there aren’t as many rewards shouldn’t discredit their win (only case where you can argue an exception is Madrid, as there were only 8 teams)
I DO believe winning a champions title is more important for a team, as it is the biggest and last tournament of the year, but that doesn’t mean that a team that wins champs is any better than a team winning a masters.
If we’re looking at Edg at their peak (champs) vs suppose Gen G at their peak (Shanghai) the fact that edg won champs doesn’t make them better in any way. Sure, it might make them more important, but it’s not a valid reason to argue that they are better whatsoever
Ur arguing with a broken record bud
Camden [#86]how is saying china doesnt count even a point?
When has another Chinese team other than EDG (only good Chinese team) done anything internationally?
Camden [#28]yea so the team thats most successful internationally and regionally should be crowned as the best team. In the valorant CHAMPIONS tour i believe the team with the most CHAMPIONS points and the CHAMPIONS winner should be the best team of 2024. That team literally being EDG
champions points dont matter much it is just something to qualify for an event, and geng has been the most consistent team throughout 2024 edg won the biggest event but they only locked in in that tournament
C0nfedant [#114]champions points dont matter much it is just something to qualify for an event, and geng has been the most consistent team throughout 2024 edg won the biggest event but they only locked in in that tournament
The most consistent team at international events happens to be TH with an average placement of 3.8 while GENG and EDG have a similar average placement at 4.5 and 4.6. So does GENG's average placement of 0.1 better makes up the difference between a champions vs a masters trophy?
nihso [#113]When has another Chinese team other than EDG (only good Chinese team) done anything internationally?
fpx won masters
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