Explain why he is in the goat conversation according to shitmea fans? He has never even been the best player on his teams. He is the Robert Horry of valorant, won trophies with players better than him.
2021 - nAts
2022 - didn't even make it to LAN
2023 lock/in - leo
2023 tokyo - alfajer
2023 champs - leo and alfajer
2024 - derke
not saying he is bad but he isn't dominant at all to be considered goat. just good at his role.
unknown_trash [#2]3 trophies. Enough said
Compare it to real sports. Tophy argument gets thrown out the window when you apply context. Like I follow nba for example, guys like Bill Russell and Robert Horry have more rings than Jordan, that does not mean they are the Goats of basketball.
idkmanwth [#5]yall hyped up demon1 for one nice and one good tournament so i think its fair we hype up chronicle who has had good years not good tournaments
but the difference is nobody said demon1 was the greatest player to play the game tho.
Yistyy [#12]but the difference is nobody said demon1 was the greatest player to play the game tho.
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/449/valorant-champions-2021, 4th highest rated player
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo, 3rd rated player in the tournament
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/466/valorant-champions-tour-stage-3-masters-berlin, 3rd rated player in the tournament
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/2097/valorant-champions-2024, 4th highest rated player
so according to you, this consistency is not worthy of shoutouts?
idkmanwth [#14]https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/449/valorant-champions-2021, 4th highest rated player
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo, 3rd rated player in the tournament
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/466/valorant-champions-tour-stage-3-masters-berlin, 3rd rated player in the tournament
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/2097/valorant-champions-2024, 4th highest rated player
so according to you, this consistency is not worthy of shoutouts?
its good, just not goat worthy. i haven't seen him be DOMINANT.
Yistyy [#15]its good, just not goat worthy. i haven't seen him be DOMINANT.
LMAO. being top 3-5 consistently is more goat worthy than being top 1 once and dipping, who would you consider goat worthy then
ArterieX [#6]he provides enough for his role to be considered on of the bests and his stats speak
tho i would liek to see more clutches from him
he's impactful, but he's never been the very best.
He has never even been the best player on his teams
Why do you think that? Just because he's not the guy with the shiny plays?
He always has been a very consistent support for all the teams he passed. Three majors absolutely pass through him. "But he wasn't the best player in any of them" It's still three majors and no one has the same number. It's no coincidence. He was a very important piece for all of them. Although it's too early to talk about goats of the not even 5 year old game he should absolutely be in the goat conversation
And it's pretty dishonest to talk about 2022 like his country wasn't at war and he got directly affected by it lol
babysasuke [#19]Don't ever try to understand the mental gymnastics of a SHITMEA fan. They're stuck in 2021 and have no sense of honor, just saying shit for the sake of saying shit.
alr babysasuke, it is time to take your meds again
Yistyy [#8]Compare it to real sports. Tophy argument gets thrown out the window when you apply context. Like I follow nba for example, guys like Bill Russell and Robert Horry have more rings than Jordan, that does not mean they are the Goats of basketball.
The problem is you're comparing apples and oranges
idkmanwth [#16]LMAO. being top 3-5 consistently is more goat worthy than being top 1 once and dipping, who would you consider goat worthy then
there is no goat. to be the goat you need consistency, yes its true. but chronicle doesn't have the peak which is just as important. guys like tenz, yay and demon1 are on the other end of the spectrum where they have extremely high peaks but no longevity. so therefore there is no conversation.
cloudberry [#21]The problem is you're comparing apples and oranges
no the problem is he doesn't have a high peak. can't be the goat if you've never even been the best.
foythvlr [#18]He has never even been the best player on his teams
Why do you think that? Just because he's not the guy with the shiny plays?
He always has been a very consistent support for all the teams he passed. Three majors absolutely pass through him. "But he wasn't the best player in any of them" It's still three majors and no one has the same number. It's no coincidence. He was a very important piece for all of them. Although it's too early to talk about goats of the not even 5 year old game he should absolutely be in the goat conversation
And it's pretty dishonest to talk about 2022 like his country wasn't at war and he got directly affected by it lol
Why do you think that? Just because he's not the guy with the shiny plays?
Leo is also not flashy, yet was always more impactful based on rating.
You make reasonable points, to me winning trophies means you are a valuable asset to any team. But if you aren't even the best player for any of the 3, you can't be the greatest to play the game. He doesn't have the peak.
And it's pretty dishonest to talk about 2022 like his country wasn't at war and he got directly affected by it lol
That's tough, but for fair discussion, I can't just ignore missing out on an entire year of high level competition even if he was a victim of circumstance.
Yistyy [#22]there is no goat. to be the goat you need consistency, yes its true. but chronicle doesn't have the peak which is just as important. guys like tenz, yay and demon1 are on the other end of the spectrum where they have extremely high peaks but no longevity. so therefore there is no conversation.
this the type of guy to say peyton manning is the goat vs brady
just accept that chronicle is the greatest of all time of valorant history
2021 he won a dominant trophy and SHOULD HAVE WON ANOTHER IF RIOT DIDNT FUCK GAMBIT OVER
2022 his team goes to shit, still performs
2023 wins 2 trophies on the best team ever
2024 even when his team plays like shit he's still hard carrying
what more do you want the guy to do
c4rrotstix [#27]this the type of guy to say peyton manning is the goat vs brady
just accept that chronicle is the greatest of all time of valorant history
2021 he won a dominant trophy and SHOULD HAVE WON ANOTHER IF RIOT DIDNT FUCK GAMBIT OVER
2022 his team goes to shit, still performs
2023 wins 2 trophies on the best team ever
2024 even when his team plays like shit he's still hard carryingwhat more do you want the guy to do
what more do you want the guy to do
I thought I made it clear already. I want the guy to win a chip as THE BEST player in the entire tournament or at the very very least, on his team which he hasn't done yet. The other crap you listed doesn't really mean anything.
Yistyy [#28]what more do you want the guy to do
I thought I made it clear already. I want the guy to win a chip as THE BEST player in the entire tournament or at the very very least, on his team which he hasn't done yet. The other crap you listed doesn't really mean anything.
not engaging in a bad faith argument, have a lovely day
babysasuke [#19]Don't ever try to understand the mental gymnastics of a SHITMEA fan. They're stuck in 2021 and have no sense of honor, just saying shit for the sake of saying shit.
Yeah, trying to have genuine debate and discussion is impossible with them.
Yistyy [#30]Yeah, trying to have genuine debate and discussion is impossible with them.
Like even the post below mine, they don't say anything of value and just expect you to take their word for it:
2021 chronicle was just as good as nAts
shAts is overrated too
he was just the best player on m3c
No, that was nAts lurking around the map and shooting people that weren't looking at him
made 4 gf winning 3 of them
One of them is lockin so it doesn't even count, Tokyo is a mickey mouse tournament because of the Franchising shakeup, and the other win was 5 years ago and entirely carried by nAts
and chronicle was incredible in champs for fnatic
Based on what? I'm pretty sure that was his worst showing of 2023 and they didn't even make a podium finish.
babysasuke [#31]Like even the post below mine, they don't say anything of value and just expect you to take their word for it:
2021 chronicle was just as good as nAts
shAts is overrated too
he was just the best player on m3c
No, that was nAts lurking around the map and shooting people that weren't looking at him
made 4 gf winning 3 of them
One of them is lockin so it doesn't even count, Tokyo is a mickey mouse tournament because of the Franchising shakeup, and the other win was 5 years ago and entirely carried by nAts
and chronicle was incredible in champs for fnatic
Based on what? I'm pretty sure that was his worst showing of 2023 and they didn't even make a podium finish.
I agree completely, I just figured it wasn't even a worth a response.
Yistyy [#25]Why do you think that? Just because he's not the guy with the shiny plays?
Leo is also not flashy, yet was always more impactful based on rating.
You make reasonable points, to me winning trophies means you are a valuable asset to any team. But if you aren't even the best player for any of the 3, you can't be the greatest to play the game. He doesn't have the peak.
And it's pretty dishonest to talk about 2022 like his country wasn't at war and he got directly affected by it lol
That's tough, but for fair discussion, I can't just ignore missing out on an entire year of high level competition even if he was a victim of circumstance.
yet was always more impactful based on rating.
Don't take statistics 100% serious without looking at context, specially rating. Leo was indeed the best player in the world to me on Fnatic, and he can and should also be on the GOAT conversation. But his impact on the team was not much bigger than Chronicle, if anything, it was pretty similar.
You can think that Chronicle is not the GOAT, and that's fair, because i don't think he is either. But i do think it's also fair to anyone else think he is, and that he undeniably should be in the conversation
I can't just ignore missing out on an entire year of high level competition
While i understand your point, i think you can't just ignore historical context either. Like i said, looking just at data without considering the context is misleading. Dude was getting sabotaged by the world, of course he "fell off" for a while. It shouldn't be a definitive factor
babysasuke [#31]Like even the post below mine, they don't say anything of value and just expect you to take their word for it:
2021 chronicle was just as good as nAts
shAts is overrated too
he was just the best player on m3c
No, that was nAts lurking around the map and shooting people that weren't looking at him
made 4 gf winning 3 of them
One of them is lockin so it doesn't even count, Tokyo is a mickey mouse tournament because of the Franchising shakeup, and the other win was 5 years ago and entirely carried by nAts
and chronicle was incredible in champs for fnatic
Based on what? I'm pretty sure that was his worst showing of 2023 and they didn't even make a podium finish.
"One of them is lockin so it doesn't even count, Tokyo is a mickey mouse tournament" yh man mb bro apparently every tournament is a mickey mouse fluke lol
GambleNats [#34]"One of them is lockin so it doesn't even count, Tokyo is a mickey mouse tournament" yh man mb bro apparently every tournament is a mickey mouse fluke lol
LOCK//IN is as credible as RBHG, Tokyo was like 2021 all over again.
Shake up all the rosters, give no time for a meta to develop or teams to prep, fluke a winner, jerk them off like they could have competed with 2022 Optic or LOUD for the rest of eternity.
GambleNats [#26]2021 chronicle was just as good as nAts
he was just the best player on m3c
made 4 gf
winning 3 of them
and chronicle was incredible in champs for fnatic
He was also the mvp of masters berlin before the rating change and he's also really good people just think kills = impact
Galactc [#38]He was also the mvp of masters berlin before the rating change and he's also really good people just think kills = impact
b4 the rating change and rn they are both the same no?
GambleNats [#40]b4 the rating change and rn they are both the same no?
Yup only person with a higher rating is yay but this is 2021 so jett 1-trick moment
Yistyy [#24]f0rsaken is too, so bad argument.
F0rsaken hasn't won a trophy yet and hasn't played on the best team of 2023.
unknown_trash [#44]F0rsaken hasn't won a trophy yet and hasn't played on the best team of 2023.
played on the best team of 2023
that's exactly my point, bro only won because he was on a stacked team.
Yistyy [#45]played on the best team of 2023
that's exactly my point, bro only won because he was on a stacked team.
He is only in goat conversation because he was part of the stacked team. If he was on a bad team, then he would get blamed for their failure but on a good team some of the success of the team would be associated with him. You make it sound like fnatic and gambit were carrying chronicle instead of him contributing to the teams success.
Yistyy [#45]played on the best team of 2023
that's exactly my point, bro only won because he was on a stacked team.
he was on a stacked team, brother he was the part of the "stack"
Because there is no one who has been at the top like him.
I saw some comments talking about how the GOAT should be someone who was top 1 of the year, but im Valorant we don't have someone like that at the moment. Just looking at all the winners of events across valorant history, the other contender would be Aspas by winning champs 22 and top 3 in 23 and 24 but he wasn't considered the best of 2022 iirc.
In the four years of competitive valorant Chronicle is definitely the most consistently good (excluding Aspas)
gambusia1302 [#51]Because there is no one who has been at the top like him.
I saw some comments talking about how the GOAT should be someone who was top 1 of the year, but im Valorant we don't have someone like that at the moment. Just looking at all the winners of events across valorant history, the other contender would be Aspas by winning champs 22 and top 3 in 23 and 24 but he wasn't considered the best of 2022 iirc.
In the four years of competitive valorant Chronicle is definitely the most consistently good (excluding Aspas)
I'd argue aspas was kinda ass in 2022 compared to later years in the years after though he was really good but only on duelist so imo not really the goat
Yistyy [#23]no the problem is he doesn't have a high peak. can't be the goat if you've never even been the best.
You can be the goat if you're consistently ONE of the best and have trophies to back it up. No player in the game has been the best in the world for multiple seasons. So there is no definitive goat in the game, but Chronicle is definitely on the shortlist of players who should be considered.
Galactc [#52]I'd argue aspas was kinda ass in 2022 compared to later years in the years after though he was really good but only on duelist so imo not really the goat
Yeah like aspas was good in 2022 but he turned demonic in 2023 that's why he's so well known
KClaw [#54]Yeah like aspas was good in 2022 but he turned demonic in 2023 that's why he's so well known
Yeah but then he definitely can't be the goat
BEHEMOTH [#57]Because only obese wannabe shiitsuke piglets like you say otherwise and like they say, if a bum ass says something, automatically assume that the opposite is true.
lmao, you always call me fat but I'm actually skinny asf
Yistyy [#8]Compare it to real sports. Tophy argument gets thrown out the window when you apply context. Like I follow nba for example, guys like Bill Russell and Robert Horry have more rings than Jordan, that does not mean they are the Goats of basketball.
wow its almost like theres been a hundred NBA finals and valorant has had waaaay less
sentekken [#59]wow its almost like theres been a hundred NBA finals and valorant has had waaaay less
its almost like valorant has 3 majors a year whereas nba has 1...
Yistyy [#60]its almost like valorant has 3 majors a year whereas nba has 1...
The NBA was created on August 3, 1949
idkmanwth [#16]LMAO. being top 3-5 consistently is more goat worthy than being top 1 once and dipping, who would you consider goat worthy then
I mean, I would argue to be the greatest of all time you would have to be the greatest at some point. If you are familiar with league esports, Faker is considered the greatest of all time in league but that's because he truly was the greatest at points in his career. Even in recent history, he basically solo carried T1 through their two recent worlds runs in the JDG series and in the BLG series. Chronicle has been consistently really good for a while, but he has never been considered the greatest player at any point, as even within his own team he is always outshined. He hasn't had the peak that players like Faker, Yay, Demon1, Aspas, and more have had. Being good forever will never make you the greatest forever. Not to say that he isn't one of the best, but he has never been the best at any point, just really damn good consistently.
K4ziuHa [#61]The NBA was created on August 3, 1949
tf does that have to do with anything. mfs don't play basketball for a 100 years straight lol
Yistyy [#63]tf does that have to do with anything. mfs don't play basketball for a 100 years straight lol
the point is, no matter how old a valorant player is rn, he only had the chance to compete the last 4 years
Yistyy [#63]tf does that have to do with anything. mfs don't play basketball for a 100 years straight lol
the point is, no matter how old a valorant player is rn, he only had the chance to compete the last 4 years
Yistyy [#63]tf does that have to do with anything. mfs don't play basketball for a 100 years straight lol
youre such an idiot omg not everything is so technical you get the point
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