Are IGLs overrated?

#1

Hitscan

The "GOAT" IGLs are FNS, Boaster and Saadhak
Then we have people like JohnQT, Valyn, k1nggg, Ange1

But these guys always had the best possible teams and players

Boaster literally had Derke, Leo, Aflajer and Chronicle in their primes. If he just says rush B every time it will work.

FNS had prime yay

Saadhak had Prime Loud with aspas

JohnQT had Prime Tenz and Zekken
Valyn probably isn't best known for his srats and stuff since he frags a lot
Ange1 had prime ardiis and suygetsu

Are IGLS really that important?

#2

ShibaIZu

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Munchkin clear all

#3

delighted

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not really

#4

Alzi

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Star players win games, IGLs win titles

#49

w1atrak

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Love that

#5

WatsomN

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prx asking the same question

#6

Divine_Thunder

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u see player's prime performance because of team strats and team chemistry. why do u think demon1 flopped in nrg his aim might be off but he isnt that bad no?

#14

Hitscan

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I don't think an igl will help him win aim duels. Rewatch the NRG games and only focus on demon1. He lost a lot of aim duels the times they lost

#67

Divine_Thunder

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yeah thats why i said " his aim might be off but he isnt that bad".

#68

Hitscan

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I mean a star player has to frag especially when the team is centered around him

#69

Divine_Thunder

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team was not centered around him tho+ he had trashies in the team.

#72

Hitscan

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It was pretty centered around him. If you look at their site executes, they always try to give demon1 all their util but things just don't work out

#100

Slimee

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It wasnt centered around him the players gotten were just bc of achievements

#103

Hitscan

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The roster wasn't centered around him but the strategy and game plan was to make him frag which obviously didn't work

#106

Medic329

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And their execs didn't cover him well because their igl was making suboptimal calls, reducing overall fragging power and losing the game. Shocking, right?

#20

windwine

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ya im pretty sure platoon val made a video on it and like demon1 was actualy good in the first few games and he also had something going on in his personal life so definewtly affected him

#32

FiredSkull

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NRG playstyle had demon1 to take first engagement/ hard entry role, that does not suit his playstyle of getting impact kills in mid round and late round scenarios, that's why he performed very bad. Just ignore users with SA Flags. I

#35

Hitscan

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I'm not sure if you watched 2023 EG at all. They had demon1 solo entry on jet a lot of the times and jawgemo was on smokes. Demon1 used to have explosive entries with Jett as well. I'm not sure where people got this mindset where demon1 can't entry at all.

#51

mustbelupus

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THIS, one platoon video and everyone is suddenly brainwashed into believing demon1 is a brick of a player who cant entry when a shit ton of his best clips from eg are him taking first contact or opening up a site on attack. while his non-jett entry duelist is still poor, he only looked especially horrible on nrg because his supporting util or trades were usually nowhere in sight and the igling and coaching around him was piss poor, ignoring the solo duels he kept losing which i would say were due to rust and mental

#91

FiredSkull

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https://www.vlr.gg/458963/eg-2023-fk-fd

#7

Final_Unemployed_Boss

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Yes IGLs are overrated, particularly its their job to make calls. To make the calls work and the rest 4 players must exec perfectly and win their duels.

#8

howsyfps

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this might be the dumbest post in vlr history

they have the best possible teams because they found success and an igl is a huge part of the teams sucess

if these teams like optic fnatic loud were ass then no one would be saying they were the best team

they BECAME the best

this reminds me of the thread about how all successful teams have a "great duelist" not just a "good duelist"

you don't start off as a great duelist you BECOME a great duelist once you win

its not like these igls joined the teams after they found success they were all a part of the teams story

#13

Hitscan

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Boaster legit won nothing before and after the 2023 fnatic roster.
All fnatic players were insane before joining fnatic.
Chronicle already had a trophy, derke was smurfing in tier 2 and Aflajer was smurfing in Turkish valorant.

For envy/optic, yay was cons a top 5 player even in andbox.

For loud, look at saadhak now. He's nothing without aspas and a superteam

I don't even want to talk about Ange1

#17

howsyfps

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rage bait

#18

Hitscan

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Nope

#19

howsyfps

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ur doing mental gymnastics

no shit an igl needs a good team bro what do u expect the igl to do? solo carry a vct team?

obviously a team with better players is gonna find more success but just having good mechanics alone does not win you events

a good igl leads their team to success and brings the best out of his star players

look at PRX and 2024 NRG

#26

Hitscan

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Yeah an IGL needs a good team but having a team with players top 1/2 in their respective roles would win regardless if the IGL is bad or not lol.

For 2024 NRG,

marvel legit had beef with the org and didn't have great chemistry with Demon1 and Ethan. Not to mention, Chet was the coach.

Also, the games they lost, demon1 was always having a bad time. And it was 80% his fault. If you rewatch the lost NRG games and focus only on demon1, you'll see him losing a lot of aim duels.

Demon1 was the main reason why NRG was called a super team and if your super player isn't performing, it's not a super team.

#34

howsyfps

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Demon1 didn't fail NRG, the team failed him as well as used him wrong

A good igl (which Ethan was not, Ethan is a good player but not igl) as well as coach would be able to understand each players strengths and weaknesses

they tried putting Demon1 on a solo entry duelist role like Aspas but it didn't work out because it isn't his playstyle and isn't what he found success on, thats like putting a star midfielder on striker and wondering why hes bad

2023 EG had a good system and structure where each player could thrive lead by Boostio (an actual good igl)

look at EDG, they changed their igl put Haodong on coach and picked up S1mon and won champs

they did not add a star player

#38

Hitscan

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Demon1 used to solo entry on Jett a lot in EG and jawgemo used to be on smokes. Demon1 was a pretty good entry player. I don't think an IGL can help him hit his shots. Also, like I said, look back the lost NRG matches and focus on demon1. Look at how many aim duels he loses. He himself stated he was going through some stuff irl and it's understandable that his performance dropped. Platoon also made a pretty good video about this.

EDG legit fluked champs cuz of neon but whatever. Also, I think kank Kang shooting people out of the air and hitting impossible shots on a broken agent was the main reason why they won instead of that change lol.

They didn't add a star player cuz they already had the best player in china lmao?

#39

howsyfps

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LMAOOOOOO

most obvious bait of all time, but in case you aren't baiting ill answer

Demon1 was NOT a hard solo entry the same way other duelists are, Jawgemo was always the entry player.

EDG did NOT fluke champs lmao, also KangKang wasn't even the mvp until the grand final. EDG got third in Bangkok so ur objectively wrong

"They didn't add a star player cuz they already had the best player in china lmao?"

thats not the point lmao, they won champs after making a roster change for a support player, putting Haodong on assistant coach and changing Nobody to igl. it was not a coincidence

#43

Hitscan

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Demon1 used to solo duelist in 3 maps Ascent, Lotus, Pearl and Haven. They always perma banned two maps but I don't remember them. Every eg game had pearl, ascent, lotus and sometimes fracture. Also, the map pool changed right after champs so demon1 is also at fault for not being able to adapt. The meta also favored single duelist and cypher was at it's peak with sunset as well so double duelist was out of the question. Also, Jett got nerfed after champs.

EDG had the easiest run after champs. They farmed their own shit region, beat liquid (mid team carried by nAts). Fluked against G2 and then got folded.

continue thread →

#42

howsyfps

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watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2_HzE3EAlI&ab_channel=AloneVal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCp6BCBCamE&ab_channel=Seiji

i dont care about your opinion you have no clue what you are talking about, u peaked plat 3

#44

Hitscan

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I'm not gonna watch some videos. I ended the act as immortal 2 #6000 something but nice guess

continue thread →

#29

Hitscan

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If you're talking about current PRX, they're terrible cuz they refuse to change. They've just fallen off in everything.

#36

howsyfps

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they are a team full of mechanical star players yet haven't won a title, and they are now picking up Patmen (an igl)

I wonder why

#40

Hitscan

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Their mechanics have fallen off and they're not a good team anymore. Players have become better than them.

#41

howsyfps

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no shit thats why they are picking up an igl, but even when they were in their prime they didn't win an international

#46

Hitscan

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I mean they beat every team that year except EG. Not much you can do when the best player on the opponent is dropping nukes on you every map

#22

windwine

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ok honestly the only one valid is boaster is i think he did have possibly the best team in history and his igling was never seen as on par with like saadhak and fns

#25

howsyfps

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lol what he has some of the best calling and leadership, hes easily one of the best igls of all time

he also got second in the first ever masters without alfa chronicle or leo

take away boaster and replace him with another player who isn't an igl and fnatic wouldn't have won anything

#31

windwine

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hmm i mean im not denying his leadership i do think hes a good leader im just saying his calling has never been that great . not hating on boaster but like not many look at him and see him as an insane caller plus like first champs acend won and like most of the team disappear and in 2023 , leo was the best player , alfajer was top 3 , chronicle probably just behind them and demon1 and derke was top few duelists

#37

howsyfps

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'his calling has never been that great" dude what are you talking about u peaked like diamond 2 u dont even understand what igls even do

Leo Alfa Chronicle and Derke were not the best players in the world coming into 2023, they became the best players in the world under Boasters leadership

#97

windwine

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lmao youre tripping abit how does peaking d2 come into play here and i said he is a good leader i just said his calling maybe isnt the best ... calling isnt = leadership , he can develop players into champions and etc and be a good leader but doesnt mean hes a insane caller

#98

howsyfps

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"calling isn't the best"

his calling won them 2 trophies so I think it's good enough

its hard for people to analyze an igl and what he does for the team unless you actually understand how a pro team works which 99% of people don't

#9

n1zf

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are you dumb?

#10

XiXiWiiPee

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lol everyone always calls crashies/victor trash, shit, overrated etc but now suddenly FNS had the best possible teams and players?

the only person who really got to build a team with the best players is boaster but now they are all gone basically, the rest (valyn, saadhak, fns, angel, etc) built and elevated the players around them

#15

Hitscan

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Crashies was a top 2 spva in 2022 and victor was a top 5 flex. Look as saadhak and angel right now bro. They're nothing without aspas, ardiis and a superteam

#24

Effluxi

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igl needs good team, team needs good igl.

real news at 7

#28

Hitscan

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Yeah cuz 23 fnatic wouldve been bottom 3 without boaster

#54

Effluxi

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They'd have crashed and burned either like this year VIT or PRX.

You ain't getting titles without a good igl, even if you can run headfirst into playoffs before you hit the wall.

#60

Hitscan

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All the teams you mentioned played well tho? Vitality lost against 2 grand finalists and PRX lost against the best team in the world with the best player in the world dropping a nuke every map

#64

Effluxi

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Like I said, you need the best of both worlds to win titles, not that you can't place with just aimers, especially early season.

#65

Hitscan

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I mean like PRX outperformed team with "experienced IGLs" so idk how and why you're using them as a bad example.

#82

Effluxi

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There's a world of difference between "Able to reach playoffs" and "Can actually play through the Bo5 and win a title"

#86

Hitscan

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PRX on a good day would've been able to beat EG. They already did it earlier. An IGL would make no difference for PRX. They beat fnatic, the team who won both masters that year

continue thread →

#11

nobody___100

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paper sex good example of no igl

#12

frizery

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i mean... 2024 nrg superteam wasnt really "super" for a reason

#21

Hitscan

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I mean like that roster had a marvel who had beef with the org and not great chemistry with Demon1 and Ethan. Not to mention, Chet was the coach.

Also, the games they lost, demon1 was always having a bad time. And it was 80% his fault. If you rewatch the lost NRG games and focus only on demon1, you'll see him losing a lot of aim duels.

Demon1 was the main reason why NRG was called a super team and if your super player isn't performing, it's not a super team.

#16

Level

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bonecold had no one and he won more champiosn trophies than FNS and boaster

#23

bakwas

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What a way to say 'I don't know anything about professional Valorant'

#T1WIN
#T1FIGHTING
#TogetherAs1
#BuZzZooming
#MeteoricImpact
#staxoverload
#SilkySylvan
#EasyForiZu

#30

Hitscan

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I bet you started watching in 2024 or 2025 lol

#33

bakwas

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Wrong again!

#T1WIN
#T1FIGHTING
#TogetherAs1
#BuZzZooming
#MeteoricImpact
#staxoverload
#SilkySylvan
#EasyForiZu

#27

HerRhythm

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PRX enters the chat

#52

TaniBoy7

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you need a person to make the calls and plays... if they were no IGLs, there can be situations in which every player wants to execute the round differently.... so they will have to decide among themselves how to finally do it and in the process hold angles and actually play the game. Sometimes it becomes very difficult to do so. Prx can be an exception to this rule but they haven't won anything (internationally) soo....

#63

IZAYA_ORIHARA

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you're partly correct. IGL dont matter really but you need a leader to rely on. And that leader should be smart and give good calls and keep the vibes of the team. (thats why prx crumbles in intense situations)

Vitality looked bad this masters with sayf igling.

to me the best igl is valyn. Coz he can frag and make decent calls while it might not be fns level.

#66

Pookie121

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yeah, esp Pijan. overrated + dementia bot fragger xdd

#71

A1pha1

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To know how important igl to a team is you just have to look at the difference between LCQ Sen 2023 and Sen 2024. You might even argue LCQ Sen 2023 had better firepower with Marved&Pancada duo being better mechanical players than Johnqt&Zellsis duo but the difference between these teams cant be more huge. Sen literally went from being one of the worst teams in Americas(literally 8-9) to the best team in the world. Some people might argue actual difference is tenz' role change but he still played initiator role in some maps and his fragging improved significantly from last year.

You need to have a good direction and leadership to let your star players shine as this was the case for Sen: tenz&zekken always carried the team's fragging and other 3 just had to clutch or get the trade kills.

#74

Hitscan

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I think you're forgetting tenz used to go 13/30 and -15 FK/FD on Jett every map in 2023.

Zekken on the other hand dropped nukes every map with massive + on FK/FD

#78

Apollo__

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"But these guys always had the best possible teams and players"

yeah because top players will flock to good IGLs

#79

foythvlr

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Saadhak had Prime Loud with aspas

Thats because he was the one who took them with Sacy. They were nobody before that. While Sacy and Saadhak already were pretty recognizable names internationally already with a mid team

#84

Hitscan

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Ok? And look at him without those players.

#88

foythvlr

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he was top 5 in the world already with an absolute dogshit of a team
https://www.vlr.gg/event/353/valorant-champions-tour-stage-2-masters-reykjav-k/main-event
he also pushed prime gambit to their limits with a pretty sad comeback
https://www.vlr.gg/51279/gambit-esports-vs-team-vikings-valorant-champions-winners-c/?game=57941&tab=overview

#90

Hitscan

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We ain't talking about valorant 45 years ago bro. I didn't even start watching at that time. Anything from that long ago is irrelevant

#92

LuffyVlr

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It shows how much you know nothing about the game

#93

howsyfps

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he knows nothing lmao

he doesn't even understand how igls work he thinks they just say "Go B"

he also just ragebaits

#95

Hitscan

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You're crying here as well. I was being fully civil and reasonable and you were being immature and started blatantly baiting at the end lmao

#96

howsyfps

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how was i blatantly baiting lol all i said was that ur clueless which u are

#101

Hitscan

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You said that cuz you were losing the argument and had nothing to reply back with and you brought up rank to bait lmao

#94

Hitscan

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yeah right lmao. I know nothing about the game cuz I didn't watch from the first event 😂

#80

MrHyphon

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Imagine being a US general in WW2 and just hearing “the 17000000 other soldiers carried you to victory, your achievements don’t matter because you had the US at its peak, are leaders that important?????”

#85

Hitscan

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Except this is valorant and 5v5

#81

lakpx

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no way this thread exists. IGLs are important just like every other role.

#87

Yistyy

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I can understand your point, but let's think of it the other way. There are almost no teams that have won trophies without an experienced IGL.

#89

awaky

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Yes, they are important.
https://www.vlr.gg/team/624/paper-rex

#104

Vegaaa

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Boaster literally had Derke, Leo, Aflajer and Chronicle in their primes. If he just says rush B every time it will work.
yes
FNS had prime yay
yes but he clearly out called a bunch of ppl
Saadhak had Prime Loud with aspas
early fragging igl and very revolutionary in agent comps and such
JohnQT had Prime Tenz and Zekken
fragger with good calling but true
Valyn probably isn't best known for his srats and stuff since he frags a lot
valyn actually does make good calls and keeps his team tight asf
Ange1 had prime ardiis and suygetsu
ange1 is the best worst player and igl we've ever seen