(This tread is just my opinion and 100% can be wrong)
Womans and Mans are separeted in Sport because of genetic diference.
But, why we separete womans and mens in Esports? Ik that womans wants to see a team that represent they, but there is no genetic advantage, both is equal, why we cant just create mixed rosters or put GC rosters in the main Val events?.
16
Gc shoud not exist
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It's cause women don't get a chance in esports, there's a lots of things like orgs being sexist, or some people just not being good enough because of the lack of experience/culture. Gc should exist for the sole purpose to give women an equal chance to compete in valorant and not be denied a spot on a team because of their gender.
There is an environment difference. Dudes easily finding dude gamers to create premier teams with, T1, challengers having better coaches, scrimming good teams more often, bunch of dudes reportedly not wanting to play with girls,... are the "competitive advantages". Gaming communities are objectively misogynistic, homophobic and transphobic. Tournaments likes GC are to try to fill that gap.
And yes Riot is already planning on having mixed gender formats for GC in the future.
number1_cned_hater [#4]It's cause women don't get a chance in esports, there's a lots of things like orgs being sexist, or some people just not being good enough because of the lack of experience/culture. Gc should exist for the sole purpose to give women an equal chance to compete in valorant and not be denied a spot on a team because of their gender.
Valid point, i disagree with the experience part, i belive there is a ton of Gc players who is better than some T1 players (Coff coff, Boaster and Victor).
But i agree with the part of giving a chance to the womans and another genders a chance, bc Val community is a lot misoginist, so ofc would be hard to grind to T1.
Still, i belive that would be good that Gc rosters plays in the main event, i see a lot of misoginy posts here saying "Gc players is terrible", "T7 event", so give a chance to they smash our T1, would be good to shut their mouths.
no,this narrative that men and women are equal in esports and men dont have inherit adnantages due to biology needs to stop,this take is so common especially here even tho its not based on anything but feelings. The facts are men have superior spatial abilities and reaction times and are better at solving cognitive tasks there are countless studies done for ever that have proven this,stop spreading this "equality" propaganda in places it just doesn't belong
Tadpole3 [#7]There is an environment difference. Dudes easily finding dude gamers to create premier teams with, T1, challengers having better coaches, scrimming good teams more often, bunch of dudes reportedly not wanting to play with girls,... are the "competitive advantages". Gaming communities are objectively misogynistic, homophobic and transphobic. Tournaments likes GC are to try to fill that gap.
And yes Riot is already planning on having mixed gender formats for GC in the future.
Like the post above said, it would be hard to grind to T1 bc of these dudes, tbh, its a gaming problem, but its MAINLY a Valorant community problem, other games have this same problem, but in a way more light than Val or Cs.
grisx23 [#3]except there is.
0/8
learn more about hormones
I do think there is some genetic difference but it is far less than in sports. There are also numerous other reasons why gc exists outside of genetic differences.
K4ziuHa [#13]bro i even have a tab on you https://i.imgur.com/7JxPL6V.png
youre THIS retarded
⚠️⚠️⚠️ALERT⚠️⚠️⚠️
Incel Baiter detected!!! Be carefull, he might beat his meat to hentai 🫨.
Pras1mos [#8]Valid point, i disagree with the experience part, i belive there is a ton of Gc players who is better than some T1 players (Coff coff, Boaster and Victor).
But i agree with the part of giving a chance to the womans and another genders a chance, bc Val community is a lot misoginist, so ofc would be hard to grind to T1.Still, i belive that would be good that Gc rosters plays in the main event, i see a lot of misoginy posts here saying "Gc players is terrible", "T7 event", so give a chance to they smash our T1, would be good to shut their mouths.
uh boaster is an igl whos won two trophies. victor isnt even playing anymore😭
Pras1mos [#8]Valid point, i disagree with the experience part, i belive there is a ton of Gc players who is better than some T1 players (Coff coff, Boaster and Victor).
But i agree with the part of giving a chance to the womans and another genders a chance, bc Val community is a lot misoginist, so ofc would be hard to grind to T1.Still, i belive that would be good that Gc rosters plays in the main event, i see a lot of misoginy posts here saying "Gc players is terrible", "T7 event", so give a chance to they smash our T1, would be good to shut their mouths.
boaster 1v5 99% of gc teams. victor can 0v5 that shit
Pato_Galactico [#18]My take is: It can exist but it should be a transition, and be like a Tier 3 league, this way players can aspire to enter tier 2 instead of gomfortably earning more money just for being women
W take, SRN was a mid T2 player and now he's the god of GC in Brazil, earning easy money, he's a liar also, not even Non Binary, I heard another T2 players in Brazil are going to GC this year.
p1lot [#20]W take, SRN was a mid T2 player and now he's the god of GC in Brazil, earning easy money, he's a liar also, not even Non Binary, I heard another T2 players in Brazil are going to GC this year.
I'm genuinely curious cause I've heard people say it but how do you know SRN is lying about being nonbinary?
Also SRN has only ever played for GC teams, you're actually on the website where you can easily check that kind of thing, they were never in T2 so I don't why you would say that
grisx23 [#3]except there is.
0/8
learn more about hormones
Please identify a physiological basis of which any gaming-adjacent physical trait is split by sexual dimorphism.
grisx23 [#3]except there is.
0/8
learn more about hormones
On a purely biological and psychological level, the differences between men and women are generally too subtle to create substantial performance gaps in tactical video games like CS
or Valorant. While men may have slight advantages in reaction time and spatial reasoning, women often excel in attention to detail and multitasking, which can balance out in a gaming context. Overall, these differences are small and, with adequate training and experience, both men and women can perform at comparable levels in competitive gaming
Conceit [#21]I'm genuinely curious cause I've heard people say it but how do you know SRN is lying about being nonbinary?
Also SRN has only ever played for GC teams, you're actually on the website where you can easily check that kind of thing, they were never in T2 so I don't why you would say that
SRN was caught in ranked saying 'stfu damn slut' to a woman in his ranked match. He was always toxic and misogynist. He has a girlfriend. It's common sense to the whole community in Brazil that he's a fake non-binary, and that's the reason he's hated in Brazil by 99% of the people who plays VLR...
p1lot [#25]SRN was caught in ranked saying 'stfu damn slut' to a woman in his ranked match. He was always toxic and misogynist. He has a girlfriend. It's common sense to the whole community in Brazil that he's a fake non-binary, and that's the reason he's hated in Brazil by 99% of the people who plays VLR...
Being misogynistic and having a girlfriend aren't mutually exclusive with being non binary, all these things can be true at the same time. "Common sense" is also not really a reason, if you could explain why it's common sense that would be nice. It genuinely sounds to me that because srN is not well liked people are using that as an excuse to be transphobic, but if you have other reasons I would actually love to hear them, I'm really curious about this situation
Jezy [#26]It exists cuz a lot of gamers don't know how to work with women with a common goal in mind , also most women / different orientations are shunned out of T2 and beyond. (Just my 2 cents based on perspective I can be far off.)
so many degens lol
Thats what I thought at first, considering it may be unfair, and just a way to put women in their island where they could never challenge men.
But more I think about it, more I think, GC could be in fact a good idea, because women face many barriers, from team not wanting mixed team because they are afraid they are some heart/love problem, hate in soloQ, and some study showing they put themself some mental barrier because an hostile environment, seing that everyear the gap between male and female are slowly closing, and Female are more and more close from T2, I started thinking it could indeed be beneficial.
You see, usually everyone want a meritocracy, so helping a group of people that are lesser good can be see as cheating, but indeed, merit dooesnt exist. If every team that win world since S3 have a Korean mid it's not because they deserve it in their gene, it's because they had the luck to be born in an environment that give them a chance to be the best, so if we want to stop unfair advatage we need to help weaker environnement to become stronger, and the only way to do that, is to give them more chance, more visibility, etc.
For exemple giving same amount of slot to a weak region than a strong region can be seen as an unfair advantage, but what we always forget is that the strong region have already many unfair advantages, being strong inspire more people of this region, so the pool is bigger, they already won world so they can be more confident, and thats how a region can snowball other region for eternity. When you run a tournament, a snowball that stay for years is the worst thing that can happen for everyone, for the weak region, no chance to ever win, for the viewer, no hype in champion, for the guy that own the game, less money because people are less entertained, and for the strong region... That just make the even boring and sometime even less hype than their domestic league.
It's the same for woman, they are already so many barrier to let them be strong, so helping them isnt an unfair advantage, it's a way to erase some part of unfair advantage and help to close the gap. If it wouldnt work I would agree with you, but G2G, BRGC, SR, all of them where closer than ever to qualify to Tier 2. Maybe 2025 will be the year it happen, thanks to GC (BRGC doesnt count)
Allat,
Meghannyah
no1_chichoo_enjoyer [#22]Please identify a physiological basis of which any gaming-adjacent physical trait is split by sexual dimorphism.
Cortisol plus high levels of testosterone provides men with significant amount of competitive drive, fight-flight response, stress management and aggressive playstyle. There are so much that can be translated from this like spatial awareness and reaction time.
aidmadeit [#23]On a purely biological and psychological level, the differences between men and women are generally too subtle to create substantial performance gaps in tactical video games like CS
or Valorant. While men may have slight advantages in reaction time and spatial reasoning, women often excel in attention to detail and multitasking, which can balance out in a gaming context. Overall, these differences are small and, with adequate training and experience, both men and women can perform at comparable levels in competitive gaming
google cortisol and testosterone
grisx23 [#30]Cortisol plus high levels of testosterone provides men with significant amount of competitive drive, fight-flight response, stress management and aggressive playstyle. There are so much that can be translated from this like spatial awareness and reaction time.
The claim that cortisol and testosterone provide men with a significant competitive edge through enhanced fight-or-flight response, stress management, aggressive playstyle, spatial awareness, and reaction time is overstated when applied to performance in tactical video games like CS
or Valorant. Let’s break it down scientifically:
Cortisol (Stress Management): While cortisol is crucial in initiating the fight-or-flight response, its prolonged elevation can impair cognitive functions, such as decision-making and focus, in both sexes. This stress hormone does not inherently enhance performance—high cortisol levels over time actually reduce attention and memory, negatively impacting key gaming skills
ENDOCRINE.ORG
LANGUAGED LIFE
. Therefore, it doesn't uniquely give men an advantage.
Testosterone (Competitive Drive and Aggression): Testosterone is often associated with aggression and competitive behaviors, which can drive an assertive or risk-taking playstyle. However, aggression doesn’t directly correlate with better performance in tactical video games. These games require a mix of precision, strategy, and teamwork, which are not necessarily enhanced by testosterone. Studies have shown that high testosterone levels can increase risk-taking but don’t significantly improve fine motor skills, spatial reasoning, or cognitive flexibility, all of which are essential for gaming
ENDOCRINE.ORG
LANGUAGED LIFE
.
Spatial Awareness and Reaction Time: Although men may generally perform slightly better on spatial reasoning tasks, this difference is minimal and can be easily offset by experience and training. Similarly, while men might have faster reaction times by milliseconds, this minor difference does not equate to a major advantage in games that rely heavily on tactics and strategy rather than pure reflexes
INFORMS
ENDOCRINE.ORG
.
In conclusion, while cortisol and testosterone can influence behaviors like competitiveness and aggression, they do not provide men with a substantial or consistent advantage in tactical video games, where success depends more on skills that are trainable and not purely biologically determined.
You are half correct my friend. The pure objective of GC is indeed to one day not be necessary and not exist like you say. But it's not the case rn
Think about it like a majority male job, like Engineers, where you're trying to show little girls that they can be engineers too by directing campaigns at them, engineer women giving speeches, and like making special clases to allow them to learn with certain advantages until it is normalized.
GC's intends to work in a similar way
SuperRoss [#33]plus 1
been saying this since gc's creation, makes no sense.
it's also honestly pretty insulting towards the players to suggest that they are "changing something",
as if video games are exclusively for men
But they kinda are that's the whole thing. How many women do you find on ranked? The whole purpose is to normalize it
Pras1mos [#8]Valid point, i disagree with the experience part, i belive there is a ton of Gc players who is better than some T1 players (Coff coff, Boaster and Victor).
But i agree with the part of giving a chance to the womans and another genders a chance, bc Val community is a lot misoginist, so ofc would be hard to grind to T1.Still, i belive that would be good that Gc rosters plays in the main event, i see a lot of misoginy posts here saying "Gc players is terrible", "T7 event", so give a chance to they smash our T1, would be good to shut their mouths.
gc teams are literally losing to t3 teams bro
theres some flaws behind the idea of gc
the whole point of gc is to like promote the women esports scene or whatever and nonbinary and all that shit to get them noticed or picked up or whatever but the reason why they arent getting picked up its cuz theyre too shit for t1
i dont understand why only women who arent good enough get a whole league dedicated towards them lol when even trans men cant even participate
it should just be if ur good enough then ur good enough, male or female
Mortadelo [#35]But they kinda are that's the whole thing. How many women do you find on ranked? The whole purpose is to normalize it
my question is why does that matter tho
ur watching valorant to watch valorant, ur not watching the player lol
if theyre good enough theyre good enough
if not, too bad
gender shouldnt influence skill level nor should it be a factor unless ur tryna gather female audience, but even then if ur baiting female audience to watch just cuz of female players thats still kinda fucked
esports is a male dominated scene and thats just how it is
smthlikeyou11 [#38]my question is why does that matter tho
ur watching valorant to watch valorant, ur not watching the player lol
if theyre good enough theyre good enough
if not, too bad
gender shouldnt influence skill level nor should it be a factor unless ur tryna gather female audience, but even then if ur baiting female audience to watch just cuz of female players thats still kinda fucked
esports is a male dominated scene and thats just how it is
esports is a male dominated scene and thats just how it is
Why is it what it is and has to stay that way just because? That's the whole point brother, trying to help it not to be so male do innate in the future.
And no it's not just to attract new clients or just to "bait girls into watching", Riot has a lot of policies for moral reasons and I suppose this kinda falls in that category
Mortadelo [#35]But they kinda are that's the whole thing. How many women do you find on ranked? The whole purpose is to normalize it
putting them into a separate league only works to reinforce such baseless beliefs
i actually find more women in ranked than you'd expect, it's like 1 every 7 or 8 players
smthlikeyou11 [#38]my question is why does that matter tho
ur watching valorant to watch valorant, ur not watching the player lol
if theyre good enough theyre good enough
if not, too bad
gender shouldnt influence skill level nor should it be a factor unless ur tryna gather female audience, but even then if ur baiting female audience to watch just cuz of female players thats still kinda fucked
esports is a male dominated scene and thats just how it is
also this, kinda
aidmadeit [#32]The claim that cortisol and testosterone provide men with a significant competitive edge through enhanced fight-or-flight response, stress management, aggressive playstyle, spatial awareness, and reaction time is overstated when applied to performance in tactical video games like CS
or Valorant. Let’s break it down scientifically:Cortisol (Stress Management): While cortisol is crucial in initiating the fight-or-flight response, its prolonged elevation can impair cognitive functions, such as decision-making and focus, in both sexes. This stress hormone does not inherently enhance performance—high cortisol levels over time actually reduce attention and memory, negatively impacting key gaming skills
ENDOCRINE.ORG
LANGUAGED LIFE
. Therefore, it doesn't uniquely give men an advantage.Testosterone (Competitive Drive and Aggression): Testosterone is often associated with aggression and competitive behaviors, which can drive an assertive or risk-taking playstyle. However, aggression doesn’t directly correlate with better performance in tactical video games. These games require a mix of precision, strategy, and teamwork, which are not necessarily enhanced by testosterone. Studies have shown that high testosterone levels can increase risk-taking but don’t significantly improve fine motor skills, spatial reasoning, or cognitive flexibility, all of which are essential for gaming
ENDOCRINE.ORG
LANGUAGED LIFE
.Spatial Awareness and Reaction Time: Although men may generally perform slightly better on spatial reasoning tasks, this difference is minimal and can be easily offset by experience and training. Similarly, while men might have faster reaction times by milliseconds, this minor difference does not equate to a major advantage in games that rely heavily on tactics and strategy rather than pure reflexes
INFORMS
ENDOCRINE.ORG
.In conclusion, while cortisol and testosterone can influence behaviors like competitiveness and aggression, they do not provide men with a substantial or consistent advantage in tactical video games, where success depends more on skills that are trainable and not purely biologically determined.
Thats a lot of "not so significant" but so many "little advantage"s that can be compounded to make men overall better players.
And reaction time/game sense while trainable to an extent, most are innate even amongst men. This is how people differentiate talent from hard work
Mortadelo [#39]esports is a male dominated scene and thats just how it is
Why is it what it is and has to stay that way just because? That's the whole point brother, trying to help it not to be so male do innate in the future.
And no it's not just to attract new clients or just to "bait girls into watching", Riot has a lot of policies for moral reasons and I suppose this kinda falls in that category
i never said it had to stay that way, its that way for a reason, and theres nothing WRONG with it, so therefore why interfere with the course of nature?
why fix something that isnt broken?
i dont get why u just have to introduce women into esports lol just let the way things be yall create problems just cuz it "feels" like a problem, however if people take time to think and ask,
"is there a reason why we HAVE to develop girls into the scene?"
im sure if girls were actually t1 material they would get picked up
https://valorantesports.com/en-GB/news/game-changers-2024-championship-expansion--new-mobility-policies
It's just one google search away
SuperRoss [#40]putting them into a separate league only works to reinforce such baseless beliefs
i actually find more women in ranked than you'd expect, it's like 1 every 7 or 8 players
You get more than a girl every other game? If that's the case, it's good, means we're closer to GC actually not being necessary
But no brother that's not it. Let me try to explain it with another analogy, imagine you decide tomorrow you're very passionate about becoming a Secretary, but you start looking for interviews and it's 95% women. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable if there was a course specifically for men to become a secretaries until you learn and enter the actual job with some confidence in the future?
Idk if I'm making any sense xD
How do none of you realize that it’s about money? Riot can make more money with more leagues. It’s a business strategy.
Also orgs know it’s a recipe for disaster, if there is 1 girl on a team 4 guys…. Orgs don’t want to run the risk of a relationship situation because it will throw off the whole vibe. It’d be like playing with edaters permanently for the rest of the team.and We all know how much we hate edaters… I mean imagine having to play with keznit and kat every day, gg
Mainly about money but also risk aversion
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#48]How do none of you realize that it’s about money? Riot can make more money with more leagues. It’s a business strategy.
Also orgs know it’s a recipe for disaster, if there is 1 girl on a team 4 guys…. Orgs don’t want to run the risk of a relationship situation because it will throw off the whole vibe. It’d be like playing with edaters permanently for the rest of the team.and We all know how much we hate edaters… I mean imagine having to play with keznit and kat every day, gg
Mainly about money but also risk aversion
but theres absolutely nothing stopping one girl from joining a team with 4 guys if shes good enough
smthlikeyou11 [#43]i never said it had to stay that way, its that way for a reason, and theres nothing WRONG with it, so therefore why interfere with the course of nature?
why fix something that isnt broken?
i dont get why u just have to introduce women into esports lol just let the way things be yall create problems just cuz it "feels" like a problem, however if people take time to think and ask,
"is there a reason why we HAVE to develop girls into the scene?"
im sure if girls were actually t1 material they would get picked up
You're missing the point, it's not "interfering with the course of nature". This is not gonna make girls go "Oh damn there is a GC circuit now I'm forced to play Valorant", the point is that the ones that are actually interested in Valorant see that they're welcome and that they're also the target of the product, inclusion
smthlikeyou11 [#49]but theres absolutely nothing stopping one girl from joining a team with 4 guys if shes good enough
Yea but that doesn’t mean any org is actually going to pick up a girl. To be fair, there’s gotta be a girl that’s better than the worst t2 player first to even have orgs interested
Anguibok [#29]Thats what I thought at first, considering it may be unfair, and just a way to put women in their island where they could never challenge men.
But more I think about it, more I think, GC could be in fact a good idea, because women face many barriers, from team not wanting mixed team because they are afraid they are some heart/love problem, hate in soloQ, and some study showing they put themself some mental barrier because an hostile environment, seing that everyear the gap between male and female are slowly closing, and Female are more and more close from T2, I started thinking it could indeed be beneficial.
You see, usually everyone want a meritocracy, so helping a group of people that are lesser good can be see as cheating, but indeed, merit dooesnt exist. If every team that win world since S3 have a Korean mid it's not because they deserve it in their gene, it's because they had the luck to be born in an environment that give them a chance to be the best, so if we want to stop unfair advatage we need to help weaker environnement to become stronger, and the only way to do that, is to give them more chance, more visibility, etc.
For exemple giving same amount of slot to a weak region than a strong region can be seen as an unfair advantage, but what we always forget is that the strong region have already many unfair advantages, being strong inspire more people of this region, so the pool is bigger, they already won world so they can be more confident, and thats how a region can snowball other region for eternity. When you run a tournament, a snowball that stay for years is the worst thing that can happen for everyone, for the weak region, no chance to ever win, for the viewer, no hype in champion, for the guy that own the game, less money because people are less entertained, and for the strong region... That just make the even boring and sometime even less hype than their domestic league.
It's the same for woman, they are already so many barrier to let them be strong, so helping them isnt an unfair advantage, it's a way to erase some part of unfair advantage and help to close the gap. If it wouldnt work I would agree with you, but G2G, BRGC, SR, all of them where closer than ever to qualify to Tier 2. Maybe 2025 will be the year it happen, thanks to GC (BRGC doesnt count)
Allat,
Meghannyah
Agree Vtuber-Chan 👍
Mortadelo [#51]You're missing the point, it's not "interfering with the course of nature". This is not gonna make girls go "Oh damn there is a GC circuit now I'm forced to play Valorant", the point is that the ones that are actually interested in Valorant see that they're welcome and that they're also the target of the product, inclusion
inclusion at the cost of level of play, doesnt seem fair to me
no one said they arent welcome, its that they arent good enough
im sure if they are actually t1 material they would be in t1
making a seperate league for girls and nonbinaries and allat just to be worse than the bottom of t2 and trans men cant even play, inclusion what?
theyre also not getting much experince playing against a bunch of immortal 2s all day
to improve u have to throw them in tier 2 at least
Mortadelo [#46]You get more than a girl every other game? If that's the case, it's good, means we're closer to GC actually not being necessary
But no brother that's not it. Let me try to explain it with another analogy, imagine you decide tomorrow you're very passionate about becoming a Secretary, but you start looking for interviews and it's 95% women. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable if there was a course specifically for men to become a secretaries until you learn and enter the actual job with some confidence in the future?
Idk if I'm making any sense xD
i've seen male secretaries,
i would feel pretty insulted if i saw a man-only course to become a secretary
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#52]Yea but that doesn’t mean any org is actually going to pick up a girl. To be fair, there’s gotta be a girl that’s better than the worst t2 player first to even have orgs interested
ur right about the money and marketing, from a financial pov thats the right move from riot, but not the players
im sure the t1 coaches wouldnt be misogynestic just to pick a guy
sure maybe if theres a guy and a girl who are the exact same skill level, i would pick the guy too
but im sure coaches will pick a girl whos better than a guy
smthlikeyou11 [#55]inclusion at the cost of level of play, doesnt seem fair to me
no one said they arent welcome, its that they arent good enough
im sure if they are actually t1 material they would be in t1
making a seperate league for girls and nonbinaries and allat just to be worse than the bottom of t2 and trans men cant even play, inclusion what?
theyre also not getting much experince playing against a bunch of immortal 2s all day
to improve u have to throw them in tier 2 at least
So you don't want inclusion at the cost of level of play but they shouldn't play separately? Isn't that polar opposite? Which one is brother you're loosing me here. I truly don't understand what you're trying to say or what it is even that you don't like
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#52]Yea but that doesn’t mean any org is actually going to pick up a girl. To be fair, there’s gotta be a girl that’s better than the worst t2 player first to even have orgs interested
There very much are girls better than bad tier 2 players rn
smthlikeyou11 [#58]ur right about the money and marketing, from a financial pov thats the right move from riot, but not the players
im sure the t1 coaches wouldnt be misogynestic just to pick a guy
sure maybe if theres a guy and a girl who are the exact same skill level, i would pick the guy too
but im sure coaches will pick a girl whos better than a guy
Yea maybe, then let’s say there’s a situation where the girl is sexually harassed by a player or coach. You would never see another girl picked up after that, riot might even change the rules. There’s a reason why dating isn’t allowed in the workplace. Also it’s not about misogyny, it’s avoiding risk.
If I was an org owner I would not run the risk. It’s really up to the org owner and what they think since rules allow for it.
If you were a t1 coach that picked up a girl and she ends up getting raped or harassed, you would feel horrible. The smart ones will avoid this risk, and the less wise will run the risks.
Pras1mos [#8]Valid point, i disagree with the experience part, i belive there is a ton of Gc players who is better than some T1 players (Coff coff, Boaster and Victor).
But i agree with the part of giving a chance to the womans and another genders a chance, bc Val community is a lot misoginist, so ofc would be hard to grind to T1.Still, i belive that would be good that Gc rosters plays in the main event, i see a lot of misoginy posts here saying "Gc players is terrible", "T7 event", so give a chance to they smash our T1, would be good to shut their mouths.
saying victor is just insanity seeing as he averaged 19 kills a map this season you clown
grisx23 [#30]Cortisol plus high levels of testosterone provides men with significant amount of competitive drive, fight-flight response, stress management and aggressive playstyle. There are so much that can be translated from this like spatial awareness and reaction time.
in that case, olympiads/other tests should also be gender specific since men have an advantage of having a "significantly higher competitive drive, stress management"
smthlikeyou11 [#58]ur right about the money and marketing, from a financial pov thats the right move from riot, but not the players
im sure the t1 coaches wouldnt be misogynestic just to pick a guy
sure maybe if theres a guy and a girl who are the exact same skill level, i would pick the guy too
but im sure coaches will pick a girl whos better than a guy
Ronaldinhooooooooooo's point isnt that t1 nad t2 coaches are misogynestic, obviously on paper it would make more sense to get a really good girl player than a mid male player but a team with 1 girl and 4 boys is just a really bad situation waiting to happen. There have already been many t1 and t2 players that have been outed for being creeps and adding a female player to the team would just increase the risk to the team, the org, and the scene
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#62]Yea maybe, then let’s say there’s a situation where the girl is sexually harassed by a player or coach. You would never see another girl picked up after that, riot might even change the rules. There’s a reason why dating isn’t allowed in the workplace. Also it’s not about misogyny, it’s avoiding risk.
If I was an org owner I would not run the risk. It’s really up to the org owner and what they think since rules allow for it.
If you were a t1 coach that picked up a girl and she ends up getting raped or harassed, you would feel horrible. The smart ones will avoid this risk, and the less wise will run the risks.
"There’s a reason why dating isn’t allowed in the workplace" only in the US
x_knowitall39_x [#59]ngl i dont care about it that much. but my god there is far too much money in GC. there is no reason why riot is pushing it so hard with the moolah when t2 orgs cant afford fucking shit
ya they giving too much money in gc, why would someone leave there if you recieve the same as a t2 player and is far more easy
Well there is a genetic advantage but it is honestly quite small but I think the problem is in culture and society. Its quite unpopular amongst women to play video games and the people that do often don't have that community that are able to support them and make them better. Not only that but there are so many people like you that aren't even willing to provide that support and just saying it shouldn't exist which is very demotivating towards them. The point of GC is to give a safer environment, community and support to help and encourage women to become better and bring them to their full potential. This is the same thing in sports not only is it already unpopular but many people don't want women in sports which creates that culture of unpopularity. Thats my opinion
Marhuee [#66]"There’s a reason why dating isn’t allowed in the workplace" only in the US
U.S. on top for a reason brotha. That being said every job I’ve had I’ve known people dating each other. The rule still makes sense and is good overall.
Anguibok [#29]Thats what I thought at first, considering it may be unfair, and just a way to put women in their island where they could never challenge men.
But more I think about it, more I think, GC could be in fact a good idea, because women face many barriers, from team not wanting mixed team because they are afraid they are some heart/love problem, hate in soloQ, and some study showing they put themself some mental barrier because an hostile environment, seing that everyear the gap between male and female are slowly closing, and Female are more and more close from T2, I started thinking it could indeed be beneficial.
You see, usually everyone want a meritocracy, so helping a group of people that are lesser good can be see as cheating, but indeed, merit dooesnt exist. If every team that win world since S3 have a Korean mid it's not because they deserve it in their gene, it's because they had the luck to be born in an environment that give them a chance to be the best, so if we want to stop unfair advatage we need to help weaker environnement to become stronger, and the only way to do that, is to give them more chance, more visibility, etc.
For exemple giving same amount of slot to a weak region than a strong region can be seen as an unfair advantage, but what we always forget is that the strong region have already many unfair advantages, being strong inspire more people of this region, so the pool is bigger, they already won world so they can be more confident, and thats how a region can snowball other region for eternity. When you run a tournament, a snowball that stay for years is the worst thing that can happen for everyone, for the weak region, no chance to ever win, for the viewer, no hype in champion, for the guy that own the game, less money because people are less entertained, and for the strong region... That just make the even boring and sometime even less hype than their domestic league.
It's the same for woman, they are already so many barrier to let them be strong, so helping them isnt an unfair advantage, it's a way to erase some part of unfair advantage and help to close the gap. If it wouldnt work I would agree with you, but G2G, BRGC, SR, all of them where closer than ever to qualify to Tier 2. Maybe 2025 will be the year it happen, thanks to GC (BRGC doesnt count)
Allat,
Meghannyah
Allat + agree.
Like you said, you give a oportunite for this scenario increase and stop a snowball/huge-gap.
I tink its allmost impossible to change the hostile environment, womans and peoples from other genders, will still suffer to train or find other team to compete, since misoginy is Valorant, seens to never get lower, since when i played with my sister, to this day, nothing changed, the same shit still happens.
And i never thinked in the way you said above, for me was kinda the opposite, was unfair bc i belived it was a way to reduce people by their gender, smth that if i was a women, i would be pissed asf.
But, i am using the verb in the past, bc the many replys i am getting here made me change my opinion.
Marhuee [#67]ya they giving too much money in gc, why would someone leave there if you recieve the same as a t2 player and is far more easy
It should be GC Pay = Tier 2 pay or else why would the GC player leave GC and go tier 2 when they get payed more
grisx23 [#30]Cortisol plus high levels of testosterone provides men with significant amount of competitive drive, fight-flight response, stress management and aggressive playstyle. There are so much that can be translated from this like spatial awareness and reaction time.
aggrssive playstyle on Computer due to harmones??? Lmao nature sure had everything planned to nerf women
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#48]How do none of you realize that it’s about money? Riot can make more money with more leagues. It’s a business strategy.
Also orgs know it’s a recipe for disaster, if there is 1 girl on a team 4 guys…. Orgs don’t want to run the risk of a relationship situation because it will throw off the whole vibe. It’d be like playing with edaters permanently for the rest of the team.and We all know how much we hate edaters… I mean imagine having to play with keznit and kat every day, gg
Mainly about money but also risk aversion
This may be a stupid question but how is riot making any money on any of these leagues other than T1? The operational cost has to out way any advertising deals they are getting. Also, they contract out tier 2 to organizations like Knights and pay them to run it. IDK I probably just don't know enough about it.
kamisavitar [#72]aggrssive playstyle on Computer due to harmones??? Lmao nature sure had everything planned to nerf women
That dude watches edits on tiktok with that cringe ass Trollface.
ballsinyojaws [#54]We live in a world where nowadays if you say anything slightly bad about trans or women even if it's the truth you get called an incel and get cancelled, shits hilarious, no wonder no one takes GC seriously
The problem is how you say my guy, everthing in life can be discussed if you use the correct words.
Example: Discussion about why genders are separeted in Olympics.
-
Right way✅️: Depending of the area, some gender have more advantage than other, like swimming, where mans can go faster and womans can go futher.
-
Wrong way❌️: Mans are biologically superior, so they have to separete to make it fair to womans.
See?, 1 you just responding in a respectfull way, 2 you are being misogynist.
(Edit, also, you words can pass a felling, of treating someone with respect or disgust)
FabledGaming [#6]If women were genetically as talented as men, they would be in VCT teams. Both genders are allowed to play T1, if you are good enough.
This has more to do with culture than genetics, but the guy is still wrong
FabledGaming [#6]If women were genetically as talented as men, they would be in VCT teams. Both genders are allowed to play T1, if you are good enough.
except experience, role models and money are a big thing. there isnt alot of experience as val is a young game, but its changed alot, GC wasnt a thing from the start, the same way the chinese league wasnt. plus no role models, by the time some of the new players are entering the scene from T2 etc there have been pros step down, like TenZ, ppl wanted to play against him so they grinded. Your role models dont have to be the same sex or anything but they usually are, seen as the GC scene isnt that big, ppl dont see the pros as their role models bcos nobody really knows them. We only know a few. Again relating it to china bcos theyre really a great example of how the league should be done, kangkang is a massive name, they poured a shit ton of money into promoting VCT china and into him and EDG that everyone else around got better. hes a massive role model for china and it boosted them massively. Side note EDG also said when they play its too easy in region to play bcos they know theyre better than everyone so their real test is international events and they usually bomb out pretty early, until recently, i think the same could be said for SR and GC in general. once they keep playing in challengers they will get better. we just need ppl to stop hating bcos thats gonna get us no where. ofc they look bad bcos they havent had the same opportunities as others have.
rtyu [#9]no,this narrative that men and women are equal in esports and men dont have inherit adnantages due to biology needs to stop,this take is so common especially here even tho its not based on anything but feelings. The facts are men have superior spatial abilities and reaction times and are better at solving cognitive tasks there are countless studies done for ever that have proven this,stop spreading this "equality" propaganda in places it just doesn't belong
and yet there have been studies done to show that with these differences they equate to fuck all in game bcos theres alot more going on. NRG and FNC did a video each testing all their players reaction times, guess who won? Boaster and FNS. Now theyre very good players but they are not known for being the best of shooters. you see how reaction time in an enclosed space males will beat females, but in the grand scheme of thing it literally equates to nothing. that isnt to say you dont need it but that "difference" alone doesnt matter
kingop3n [#78]and yet there have been studies done to show that with these differences they equate to fuck all in game bcos theres alot more going on. NRG and FNC did a video each testing all their players reaction times, guess who won? Boaster and FNS. Now theyre very good players but they are not known for being the best of shooters. you see how reaction time in an enclosed space males will beat females, but in the grand scheme of thing it literally equates to nothing. that isnt to say you dont need it but that "difference" alone doesnt matter
can u link some of those studies? What games did they test this on and how? Cause i dont see how it doesnt matter,fps games in general are quite literally focused on those 3 areas that men are provenly clearly outperforming women on. Reaction time,spatial ability and problem solving
edit: i found 1 big study done on this and it was about a fucking mmo game lmao that literally doesnt disprove anything i said if thats what ur referencing
The reason why gc exists is because of the marginalization of women and minorities in the competitive environment, its just that lol, plus let's not forget that this is also a form of marketing by riot towards minorities obviously
It should cease to exist?, I don't think so, what they should do is somehow promote teams to move to the normal circuit as I feel that currently gc works very far away from the rest of the circuits
No women or nb players look for tier two or tier one because they already have their own league to play in, and those who are looking to play in tier one have gotten turned down due to sexism (see meL's case, where she didn't get into further tryouts because someone was uncomfy playing with a woman in their team), which only further enforces the idea that GC is the only circuit that accepts them. It's not too big of a divide between the best nb or female players and the men, it's more so funding GC teams have compared to men's teams, scrim quality and quantity, coaching staff, etc. That can cause the small divide between the two leagues, but people LOOOVE to make it about gender wars instead of actually looking at the differences between the two leagues from the inside out. I would be willing to bet that the best GC players could fit in tier one just fine as long as they slot into their systems with no problems.
kamisavitar [#72]aggrssive playstyle on Computer due to harmones??? Lmao nature sure had everything planned to nerf women
is that a rhetorical question? Aggression is relative term not only on physical but also on mental level.
jeMEGASUS [#64]in that case, olympiads/other tests should also be gender specific since men have an advantage of having a "significantly higher competitive drive, stress management"
Olympiads are put in combat with guns in a virtual environment?
And you are comparing apples to oranges. Olympiads consist of very genetically (intellectual) advantaged people.
Its like oh "can Mimi hold her own against players in T1/T2?" Yes but can 95% of GC players do the same? No
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#62]Yea maybe, then let’s say there’s a situation where the girl is sexually harassed by a player or coach. You would never see another girl picked up after that, riot might even change the rules. There’s a reason why dating isn’t allowed in the workplace. Also it’s not about misogyny, it’s avoiding risk.
If I was an org owner I would not run the risk. It’s really up to the org owner and what they think since rules allow for it.
If you were a t1 coach that picked up a girl and she ends up getting raped or harassed, you would feel horrible. The smart ones will avoid this risk, and the less wise will run the risks.
is it really that hard to not be creeps though?
i feel like the average person has no problems not being a sexual harasser, plus PR training and stuff
i feel like ur digging in too deep to this i dont think this is where the orgs r thinking tbh
Prancer [#65]Ronaldinhooooooooooo's point isnt that t1 nad t2 coaches are misogynestic, obviously on paper it would make more sense to get a really good girl player than a mid male player but a team with 1 girl and 4 boys is just a really bad situation waiting to happen. There have already been many t1 and t2 players that have been outed for being creeps and adding a female player to the team would just increase the risk to the team, the org, and the scene
i see no problems with a 4 girl one boy situation, at least not with the current t1 teams
t2 man idk some ppl r weird asf but thats as good as gc players get atm
is it really that hard to not be assholes and creeps tho like just behave like a normal human
idk man the argument that gc players get their own circuit is cuz the male players are fucked up seems pretty fucked to me
Mortadelo [#60]So you don't want inclusion at the cost of level of play but they shouldn't play separately? Isn't that polar opposite? Which one is brother you're loosing me here. I truly don't understand what you're trying to say or what it is even that you don't like
i meant sacrificing the level of play for inclusion
and the whole inclusion arguement doesnt even make sense either cuz riot doesnt allow trans males to participate
that plus what i just said
smthlikeyou11 [#86]i see no problems with a 4 girl one boy situation, at least not with the current t1 teams
t2 man idk some ppl r weird asf but thats as good as gc players get atm
is it really that hard to not be assholes and creeps tho like just behave like a normal humanidk man the argument that gc players get their own circuit is cuz the male players are fucked up seems pretty fucked to me
GC players dont get their own circuit because male players are fucked up, they get their own circuit because its more difficult for non-male (trans, nb, female etc.) players to be placed on first roster teams in t1.
Most male pros are perfectly normal (as normal as a professional gamer can be) and respect each other
Prancer [#88]GC players dont get their own circuit because male players are fucked up, they get their own circuit because its more difficult for non-male (trans, nb, female etc.) players to be placed on first roster teams in t1.
Most male pros are perfectly normal (as normal as a professional gamer can be) and respect each other
its more diffcult because no one in gc is good enough for t1, a random t1 player would look like aspas in gc
hell if i wanted to identify as a female i would do decent in gc
smthlikeyou11 [#87]i meant sacrificing the level of play for inclusion
and the whole inclusion arguement doesnt even make sense either cuz riot doesnt allow trans males to participatethat plus what i just said
Brother I'm sorry but you're not making any sense, GC doesn't sacrifice the level of play of anyone, it's an independent, it doesn't affect anyone that is not in GC who tf level is getting sacrificed.
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree
Mortadelo [#90]Brother I'm sorry but you're not making any sense, GC doesn't sacrifice the level of play of anyone, it's an independent, it doesn't affect anyone that is not in GC who tf level is getting sacrificed.
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree
my point is gc players arent good
here ill dumb it down for u if i wasnt being clear enough, sry
gc players = bad = skill level low
t2 players have better skill level but not all t2 players
take the good gc players and the good t2 players into a combined t2 leage rather than seperating them= better level of play
smthlikeyou11 [#85]is it really that hard to not be creeps though?
i feel like the average person has no problems not being a sexual harasser, plus PR training and stuff
i feel like ur digging in too deep to this i dont think this is where the orgs r thinking tbh
I said it's mainly money. You are the one who keeps digging and drawing false conclusions. Someone doesn't need to be a creep to like someone. The point is avoiding a potential sticky situation. You just think I'm focused on this but it's really you who keeps replying. Talk about the business side then?
smthlikeyou11 [#89]its more diffcult because no one in gc is good enough for t1, a random t1 player would look like aspas in gc
hell if i wanted to identify as a female i would do decent in gc
saying no one in gc is good is a reach. Many are bad yes but anyone on sr can compete with mid t1 players. A lot of t1 players are mid tbh and t2 players could (and should) take their spots.
ronaldinhoooooooooooo [#92]I said it's mainly money. You are the one who keeps digging and drawing false conclusions. Someone doesn't need to be a creep to like someone. The point is avoiding a potential sticky situation. You just think I'm focused on this but it's really you who keeps replying. Talk about the business side then?
ive said u were right ab the business side lol im not arguing w that
Prancer [#93]saying no one in gc is good is a reach. Many are bad yes but anyone on sr can compete with mid t1 players. A lot of t1 players are mid tbh and t2 players could (and should) take their spots.
only flor on sr maybe against mid t1 players and only maybe
+1
There's nothing biological that affects valorant performance. Being a man or woman doesnt make you any better or worse.
There's nothing to show that women are marginalized from t1 or t2. Both circuits are open. A premier team recently won pacific ascension. There's nothing stopping a woman from joining premier. The claim that people can't find teammates because of gender is outlandish:
"Yeah you're a great initiator player with great aim and you play the agents and role we're looking for and would be a great fit, but since you're a girl we're gonna pass" - Do you see how comically ridiculous that is?
And if anything GC itself holds people back because the financial incentives of staying in the t4 gc league keeps people stuck in it instead of developing further.
Finally common sense on vlr
Yuh_aye [#96]+1
There's nothing biological that affects valorant performance. Being a man or woman doesnt make you any better or worse.
There's nothing to show that women are marginalized from t1 or t2. Both circuits are open. A premier team recently won pacific ascension. There's nothing stopping a woman from joining premier. The claim that people can't find teammates because of gender is outlandish:
"Yeah you're a great initiator player with great aim and you play the agents and role we're looking for and would be a great fit, but since you're a girl we're gonna pass" - Do you see how comically ridiculous that is?
And if anything GC itself holds people back because the financial incentives of staying in the t4 gc league keeps people stuck in it instead of developing further.
Finally common sense on vlr
I will disagree with the third paragrapy.
Its a real thing sadly, when i first started to play val, i started with my friend, she was the best duo i had in terms of gameplay still, the ammount of "Bruh, woman, i will dodge", "Whore in game? I will troll", or simplyly just being unecessary mean, was crazy.
Simping was also other problem, bc sometimes, some dudes refused her in the squad, just bc: "Our friend will pay more attention to you than to the game", and most of the times, if she didnt give the guy attention, he would troll and kick her out of the squad.
And sometimes, she told me that they refused her in the premier squad, bc they said they needed, "To play serius", brother she was immortal at the time, and her squad was plat.
Pras1mos [#98]I will disagree with the third paragrapy.
Its a real thing sadly, when i first started to play val, i started with my friend, she was the best duo i had in terms of gameplay still, the ammount of "Bruh, woman, i will dodge", "Whore in game? I will troll", or simplyly just being unecessary mean, was crazy.
Simping was also other problem, bc sometimes, some dudes refused her in the squad, just bc: "Our friend will pay more attention to you than to the game", and most of the times, if she didnt give the guy attention, he would troll and kick her out of the squad.
And sometimes, she told me that they refused her in the premier squad, bc they said they needed, "To play serius", brother she was immortal at the time, and her squad was plat.
well thats average plat behavior
But when you get to immortal 2+ (when people generally are semi-serious players) you don't really get that behavior, its very rare.
And I guarantee there's thousands of premier teams (at all levels) that are mixed where its never been an issue, far outweighing a few bad apples. So I don't think you can conclude from a few bad experiences here and there that there's some great barrier to women competing in premier (and definitely not at the high level divisions).
Pras1mos [#70]Allat + agree.
Like you said, you give a oportunite for this scenario increase and stop a snowball/huge-gap.
I tink its allmost impossible to change the hostile environment, womans and peoples from other genders, will still suffer to train or find other team to compete, since misoginy is Valorant, seens to never get lower, since when i played with my sister, to this day, nothing changed, the same shit still happens.And i never thinked in the way you said above, for me was kinda the opposite, was unfair bc i belived it was a way to reduce people by their gender, smth that if i was a women, i would be pissed asf.
But, i am using the verb in the past, bc the many replys i am getting here made me change my opinion.
I'm confident in the 10 or 20 years mysoginy in video game will be reduce, because more time pass, more women play video games
Pras1mos [#75]The problem is how you say my guy, everthing in life can be discussed if you use the correct words.
Example: Discussion about why genders are separeted in Olympics.
Right way✅️: Depending of the area, some gender have more advantage than other, like swimming, where mans can go faster and womans can go futher.
Wrong way❌️: Mans are biologically superior, so they have to separete to make it fair to womans.
See?, 1 you just responding in a respectfull way, 2 you are being misogynist.
(Edit, also, you words can pass a felling, of treating someone with respect or disgust)
Well, the 2nd one if you replaced it with physically superior it isn't wrong though?
For the vast majority of sports men physical advantage is large that it promotes for separation between Men and Women.
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