Top 30 Teams All Time - april 9

#1

sentinelmain377

the net changes are since january 2025.

ALL TIME SUCCESS + PERFORMANCE (2020-2025)

FNATIC - EMEA
LOUD - AMER
ENVY(2020-21)/OPTIC(2022)/NRG(2023-25) - AMER
SENTINELS - AMER
EDWARD GAMING - CN
FPX(EU 2020-22)/NATUS VINCERE(2023-25) - EMEA
PAPER REX - PAC (⬆️+1)
GAMBIT - EMEA (⬇️-1)
GEN.G(KR) - PAC (⬆️+1)
ACEND - EMEA (⬇️-1)

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EVIL GENIUSES - AMER
VS/DRX - PAC (⬆️+1)
TEAM LIQUID - EMEA (⬆️+1)
TEAM HERETICS - EMEA (⬇️-2)
KRÜ - AMER
T1(KR) - PAC (⬆️+7)
G2(NA)/THE GUARD - AMER (⬆️+2)
100 THIEVES - AMER (⬇️-2)
AUSTRALS(2021)/LEVIATÁN(2022-25) - AMER (⬇️-2)
FUT - EMEA (⬇️-2)

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G2(EU) - EMEA (⬇️-1)
X10(2021)/XIA(2022)/TALON(2023-25) - PAC (⬇️-1)
XSET - AMER (⬇️-1)
GUILD - EMEA
C9 - AMER (⬆️+4)
ZETA - PAC (⬇️-1)
TEAM VITALITY - EMEA (➕NEW)
FUN PLUS PHOENIX - CN (⬇️-2)
TEAM SECRET - PAC (⬇️-2)
GIANTS GAMING/GIANTX - EMEA (⬇️-2)

Top 10 Teams of Every Year

#2

CJYman

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Acend is not in the top 10

#3

sentinelmain377

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even i dont feel like gambit and acend should be there, but then when i compare to the other teams, acend works out being there since they have barely better results and teams like GEN.G and EG only had shorter-term success
edit: Also ppl forget that Acend won Masters 1 EU in 2021(regional tourney but still counts for this ranking) and existed in 2022 [had a good showing in Stage 2 of 2022 and only didnt qualify to copenhagen due to a 10-6 lead choke to the eventual winners of Copenhagen, FPX(EU)]. meanwhile EG outside of 2022Stage2 and 2023 Tokyo&Champs💀.

ok i moved acend.

#4

Flame4Game

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Is this based on stats, or just subjective rankings?

#8

sentinelmain377

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99.9% stats, placements, with a decent amount of weight on having trophies (not much for attending international finals). im not listing all of what i use to rank them here (too much to read)
0.1% bias (which is natural)

#20

Anguibok

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What is the methodology ?

#5

liamo

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acend should definitely be lower than geng and eg at least

#6

Nitrololo

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i think G2 NA should be higher tbh, their performances last year and this year could put them above teams like KRU or liquid

#7

sentinelmain377

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im just gonna wait til toronto happens and they go to like top 9-12 probly

#9

Nitrololo

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yeah that seems fair, I think they've definitely got a good chance at the trophy at toronto

#10

MANDO12321312341

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Why is the trophyless prx ahead of a champs winner in eg and the recent master winners t1, please explain.

#23

Dudhi

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might be all the regionals i think, but still doesn't justify the placement imo

#28

sentinelmain377

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T1 has 1 trophy and top 4 and nothing else.
PRX has had 5 top 4s, and like triple the international placements.

also what am i supposed to do when ppl say "PRX is too low (just cuz they dont have trophies doesnt mean they should be low)" and then other ppl say "PRX are too high for no trophies".

#29

irishsamingg

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i agree tbh

#47

Hyxagon

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a lot of success in pacific over multiple years, multiple top 3 international appearances, it makes sense to me for them to be over teams that have only had major success in a single year

#11

Almighty

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Keep those trash rankings to yourself

#12

welkin

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Fnatic- number one! how the fk ! w stupid fnatic fan!

#27

sentinelmain377

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there is no argument against FNATIC #1. FNATIC is miles ahead of every other team in terms of "ALL TIME" success

#13

irishsamingg

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idk understand why drx so high when they havent won any international trophy while t1 is 16??? are you not counting any trophies ?? your list is straight up bad

#14

rud

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FPX/NAVI way too high, been ass since 2022
if you rank GMB high off of one year, GENG should be much higher too
Acend too high

#35

sentinelmain377

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ppl forgetting Gambit clearing team rankings in terms of overall success in 2021 and also forgetting m3c existed in 2022 (top 4-5 EMEA team at all times in 2022, when EMEA was the #1 region). GEN.G : 2nd(kickoff), 1st, 9th-12th - and nothing else

#59

rud

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be honest with yourself M3C were just meh compared to GMB, they didn’t even qualify for an international
not only is the scene way more competitive then when GMB played but GenG’s 2024 results speak for themselves: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 9-12th
I think you’re just nostalgia blind

#62

sentinelmain377

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i dont consider regional trophy wins or anything like that (most of that shit is seeding games). I only consider regional results when doing some comparisons due to teams like EG who have had their high highs, but are always a bottom 2-4 teams (making it unfair to rank EG higher than some teams).

also Gambit won a bunch of regionals and placed high (top 1-3) in all of them just so you know

#15

Astaaaaa

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top 10 rn in my humble opinion
1-G2
2-DRX
3-T1
4-VIT
5-FNC
7-KRU
8-SEN
9-MIBR
10-TH

#17

irishsamingg

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g2 0 trophy so definitely not 1

#18

catNmouse

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how did drx become second

#19

irishsamingg

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ikr his list doesnt make any sense

#21

Yistyy

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I think his list is current teams. Not sure tho

#34

zhongZHI

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yea it is. but no edg is wild top 5 min

#22

Astaaaaa

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LOOK BETTER THAN T1 T1 LOST A MAP TO TS AND ONLY BEAT BUM TEAMS

#24

catNmouse

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g2 beat two bum teams in nrg and furia as well

#32

Astaaaaa

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2-0 2-0 AND 2-1 MIBR
SO??

#16

Yistyy

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EG is better than acend. we don't count masters 1, it was a regional locked and purely online.

#25

Hitscan

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Envy/OpTic/NRG should be #2

2nd in Masters Berlin 2021
1st in Masters Reykjavik 2022
3rd in Masters Copenhagen 2022
2nd in Champions Istanbul
5th in Lock In
4th in Masters Tokyo
1st in Sen City Classic
1st in SOOP

#26

irishsamingg

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hmm optic was also the best team in 2022 their year was better than loud

#33

Level

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soop and sen city nrg is not grouped with envy/optic/nrg. different core

#30

229fn

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edg 🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿 they won one event and are top 5 🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿

#31

H3ENnZ

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Although I agree they are too high on this list, they made every single lan since 2022 (some are invited ik), won near every regional trophies counting the evolution series in 2023, and are fairly consistent in LAN placements (lock in was bad, madrid they went 1-2 but was still 5-6th, shanghai was terrible but were still top 8)

#36

229fn

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drx also made every single lan that i could remember and are extremely consistent with their 5th-6th and they didn't even make top 10

holy recency bias

#42

zhongZHI

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winning champs >>> everything else. seeing that they came from a shitter region too meaning their domestic games meant shit in helping them and they only could adapt at lans and they actually only had this shit circuit the year they won champs is mad impressive while drx spent their entire valorant life hood jorking in the 5/6th position and eventually not even jroking it there and only recently have came back to 5th or 6th. also EDG went 5/6th for tokyo and champs 23 and madrid and shanghai so what is ur point? they did what drx did but then they won champs while being in a dogshit region

#44

229fn

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Winning champs >>> everything else and still EG isn't top 10 despite having another 2nd place internationally
🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿

#45

zhongZHI

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not consistent and they arent having any modern success even individually on seperate teams. dudes willing to talk about consistency about a team that like drx consistently got 5/6th but when its eg nahhhh 2 tournaments where they got 1st and 2nd means they should be 5th like dude ur not follwoing ur own logic

#46

irishsamingg

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people hate eg for some reason

#48

zhongZHI

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im not hating on EG its honestly retarded no bottom shitter rich team like nrg swoops them all up. its more this fella is like oh EDG is higher than DRX evne though DRX consistently got 5/6th forever while edg also got consistently 5/6th for 4 tourneys in a row before they unlike DRX won something big a little something called champs

#52

229fn

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yeah but edg didn't even do anything until like 2023, this list is all time

i'm not saying EG deserve top 10 either but you said "winning champs >>> everything else" which is a braindead take and used EG as a counterpoint

#49

sentinelmain377

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EG only done something in 2/13 international tournaments. Like they were always a bottom 2-4 team (a little stunt in 2022 stage 2, but negligible) until Tokyo and Champs 2023 and then went back to being a bottom 2-4 team all the time.

#50

sentinelmain377

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DRX top 1s (0) < EDG top 1s (1)
DRX top 2s (0) < EDG top 2s (1)
DRX top 4s (2) = EDG top 4s (2)
DRX top 6s (8) > EDG top 6s (5)
DRX top 8s (9) > EDG top 8s (6)
DRX int appearances (10) > EDG int appearances (8)
DRX champ appearances (4) > EDG champ appearances (3)

DRX is just barely edging EDG out in placement stats, so the EDG CHAMPS trophy clears DRX.

#53

229fn

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just barely edging EDG out

then why is one of them 5 and one 12, that's a huge difference

also EDG do be edg'ing

#55

sentinelmain377

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DRX is barely edging out in placements (which is your argument), while our argument is the trophy (and champs trophy) which MEGA obliterates DRX compared to the lead DRX has in the placement comparisons. Also rank 5-12 are pretty close to each other

#56

229fn

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you overweigh champs WAYYYYY too much but again these are personal rankings

my ranking would look way different

#60

H3ENnZ

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madrid and shanghai

#63

H3ENnZ

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Clearly u dont remember anything about 2024 because they made 1/3 lans that year
Also its not even recency bias EDG WON CHAMPS, biggest tournament of the year. DRX on the other hand only has one regional trophy

#74

229fn

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they won champs did ok at bangkok and shit the bed in most other tournaments

#79

H3ENnZ

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did ok in bangkok. (Beating the finalists and placed 3rd)
Other tournaments:
Master tokyo, champs 2023, masters madrid 5-6th
Champs 2024 winner
could argue that they placed worst in other tournaments but again, DRX are nothing without a trophy

#80

229fn

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i mean i guess but i just feel like DRX has done more ALL TIME than EDG has, I just don't think they would have made some of those events from another region I guess as well

#93

zhongZHI

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yea edg shat the bed by going 5/6th for every tournament they played in but 2. drx shit the bed since they were born and then got 3rd!!!

#94

229fn

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but they've been consistent for longer, edg didn't really start doing much of anything until 2024

you could argue they had a decent 2023 but in champs they beat GX twice and BLG, NAVI and T1 in masters, i guess they did beat LOUD but like

#37

decidueye

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I'm confused about how you got this. Is this based on the core players? Cause NRG had a team before Optc died in Val. Envy now has a new team, so I feel like you can't just place all 3 together. It's the same with NAVI. They had a team before, but now they are PRX?

#39

sentinelmain377

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the years are added. it is basically the mainish core and we can forget the old NAVI and old NRG

#38

jawn

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the optic core is definitely NOT over sen

#40

sentinelmain377

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~~obviously (they are 3 wdym), they are also really close to overtaking LOUD.~~

0/8. nice attempt at editing

#41

jawn

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all they have done is get participation medals and a masters, sen have 2 masters with 2 years and counting of competitive relevance

#43

sentinelmain377

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envy/optic/nrg had 3 years of competitive relevance with 5 Top 4s, 3 top 2s, and 1 trophy
sen has had like a little over 2 years of competitive relevance (2024 doesnt count as 1.0 years due to Stage 1 performance). 3 Top 4s, 2 top 2s, 2 trophies

nv/optc/nrg clears. but if SEN can get another top 4 sooner or later, then SEN overtakes

#51

jawn

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2024 doesnt count as 1.0 years due to Stage 1 performance

then 2021 NV doesn't count either, they were invisible the first half of the year, reached finals in berlin got smoked and then got grouped by x10 the next fucking event

#54

sentinelmain377

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Envy in 2021:
m1 na: top 4 na
m2: top 4 na
m3: top 1 na, top 2 world
champs: top 2 na/top 3 amer
competitive enough for me

Sen in 2024:
kickoff: top 1 amer, top 1 world
shanghai: top 6-7 amer
champs: top 2 amer, top 4 world

that shanghai placement is like something EG does.

#61

jawn

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i like how you skew the placements of 2021 NV to make them seem more competitive than 2024 sen

how are they top2 na in champs exactly? did they qualify through a tournament? no, did they place higher than the 3rd na team? no

how is a top4 m1 placement better than a kickoff win?

i'm not addressing the top4 in m2 they were a shit team at the time

#64

sentinelmain377

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bro this is a pointless argument. you and me both know that ENVY/OPTC/NRG clears SEN all time. do you just forget horrendous 2022-2023 from SEN? Envy 2021 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that.

also 1 more top 4 or top 6 from SEN means they are better all time so jus relax

#66

jawn

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did you forget the horrendous 2024-2025 from them?

#95

1243

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fucking idiot 2 trophies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 trophy idiot

#57

DBStudios

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This list is so EMEA biased lmao, FPX at 6 when they won trophy, got 2 4th places, and then fell off the hardest out of any team? And don't even get me started on acend at 10, made 2 LANs and then was never seen again lmao.

GMB, GENG, arguably PRX and EG are all over them lmao.

#58

sentinelmain377

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ok who replaces and why do you think ACEND is not 10
and know this:

ACEND:
ACEND won Masters 1 EU in 2021
ACEND got 5th-8th (on the higher end as the only choked a 12-7 lead to 100thieves - legendary game) in Masters 3 Berlin 2021
ACEND got 1st at Champions in 2021
ACEND had "a good showing" in Stage 2 2022 (top 4 EU team when EU dominated the international event - Copenhagen)

EG:
decent showing in Stage 2 2022 - top 6ish NA (this was when NA was horrendous if you remember XSET vs OPTIC at Copenhagen 💀)
2nd at Tokyo
1st at Champs 2023
...

#65

DBStudios

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The way that you're undermining EG's Tokyo and Champs success and glazing Acend is ACTUALLY CRAZY LMAOO. You make it seem like Acend's 5th-8th place success is anything good compared to EG's Tokyo success.

ACEND had a good performance in Stage 2 2022

Now you're just contradicting yourself when you yourself said "all time success" and not "performance" LMAOOOO

Nice edit lmao

#67

sentinelmain377

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that good performance is the same thing as the EG compliment for stage 2 2022 (but Acend did better, but i equalized them anyways).

ACEND and EG are close, but ACEND just wins no bias or nothing bruh

#68

DBStudios

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Yeah and how do they win? because of your bias? lmao you gave zero valid points on how acend is more successful than EG except straight up glaze

#69

sentinelmain377

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ACEND:
ACEND won Masters 1 EU in 2021
ACEND got 5th-8th (on the higher end as the only choked a 12-7 lead to 100thieves - legendary game) in Masters 3 Berlin 2021
ACEND got 1st at Champions in 2021
ACEND was top 4 EU in Stage 2 2022

EG:
decent showing in Stage 2 2022 - top 6ish NA
2nd at Tokyo
1st at Champs 2023

how is this not valid for you??

#71

DBStudios

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Stop glazing Masters 1 EU, it wasn't even a LAN it was a regional battle lmao winning stop saying that shit it's the same as 100T fans glazing first strike.

Also if you wanna get THAT technical
2023 AMER league 3rd place >>> top 4 EU in stage 2 2022
2nd Tokyo >>>>>>>>> 5th-8th Berlin
1st at champs 2023 >= 1st at champs 2021 (since we are talking about success)

It's funny because bro didn't even try when it came to typing out EG's success in 2023

#73

sentinelmain377

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2023 AMER LEAGUE is included in Tokyo. they are the same stage of that year

also ACEND got top 3 EU for berlin too + had the most or 2nd most championship points for Champs 2021

ur debating with nothing other than just hating EMEA

#75

DBStudios

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And how is 2023 Americas League included in tokyo??? lmao you make absolutely ZERO SENSE LOLLLLL. Atp you're gonna make the argument that america leauge is included in champs too because they qualified off of that.

#76

sentinelmain377

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????

there are 3 stages in 2023:
LOCK//IN
AMER LEAGUE + TOKYO
LCQ + CHAMPS

just like every year has had 3 stages except 2021

continue thread →

#70

DBStudios

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Also please let me know how ZETA is below guild? ZETA made 4 times the amount of LANs that Guild did and placed top 3 while Guild bombed out of playoffs?

#72

sentinelmain377

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ZETA in 2021 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUILD in 2021

im not just gonna base it off of those 2 placements bruh
ZETA didnt do anything other than that 3rd place. at least GUILD was competitive in EU (always top 3-6) from 2021-2022.

also you must be baiting cuz you should know that GUILD is considered the 3rd best team of Copenhagen by ppl in vlr as they beat 3rd place 2-0 (OPTIC) and only lost to FPX and PRX at Copenhagen (the 2 finalists). they had unlucky seeding in playoffs due to FPX(EU) becoming a finals contender mid-way through the tournament due to visa issues.

#77

DBStudios

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You might be the most braindead and biased person ever lmao, being "competitive" in EU is miles off of success in the actual game. By your logic ZETA was also competitive in 2023, getting 5th-6th in the league and then being top 4 by the end of the year and qualifying to champs.

also you must be baiting cuz you should know that GUILD is considered the 3rd best team of Copenhagen

Once again we are talking about SUCCESS and not PERFORMANCE, for someone who literally typed out this prompt I would think you would know what you're trying to argue about. Not hypotheticals made by coping EMEA fans.

only lost to FPX and PRX at Copenhagen

Then how come FPX (China) isn't higher on this list? Or why isn't trace on this list either if we're going to consider "losing to the finalists"

#81

sentinelmain377

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Then how come FPX (China) isn't higher on this list? Or why isn't trace on this list either if we're going to consider "losing to the finalists"

bahaha 0/8.

#82

DBStudios

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Yep, let's just quote a random line anddddd say 0/8, that'll get them!!

#83

sentinelmain377

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wait ur not serious right? You do know that FPX(EU) (which transferred their EU roster to NAVI in 2023) with Ange1 Shao Suygetsu Ardiis Zyppan was the finalist. Not the chinese team. LMFAO

#84

DBStudios

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You do realize that I'm not talking about the EU FPX which is why I had to specify (for people like you) that it was the Chinese team?

FPX (China)

Here look at it again just because you might be blind

Also FPX lost to the two grand finalists at Shanghai so your logic about Guild would also apply to them too.

#85

sentinelmain377

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mb.
anyways the difference between Guild and all the other teams that lost only to finalists is that Guild proved it by beating the 3rd place team (2-0). and also this is a comparison between Guild and Zeta and so keep it between that. This whole ranking was made by 1 by 1 comparisons. Also EMEA was objectively a stronger region in 2021-2022 than Japan, so dont compare ZETA regional results to EMEA.

continue thread →

#88

Camden

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which teams has the most trophies. I didn't check but I believe its EDG

#89

irishsamingg

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its fnatic and sen if we count international

#90

Camden

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is this list based off org or teams. I don't think you can say 2021 sen is the same as 2024 sen. You cant be grouping NRG and optic together

#91

Camden

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i would say C9 white/ shoppify

#92

1One1

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Top team of all time does not exist.
The meta changes
The players change
The competitiveness change
These make past achievements become obsolete and Recency bias is allowed to some point. Usually past achievements only sustain for a year