what's your top three favorite ice cream flavors?

something>Jemkin>Rarga
trexx>Kr1stal>chronicle
Cloud>Sheydos>Jady
nAts>chiwa>Vo0kashu
Shao>SUYGETSU>dos9

Overall:
Team A 5 Points
Team B 11 Points
Team C 12 points

So I would say C > B > A.

He's not on AE anymore...

Yeah that was a while ago, it's phased out of the meta since Chamber got nerfed. It was a pretty good comp though

I'd love it if you did, thanks!

Those are cool statistics, where did you get them from?

I was referring to the current map pool, but you're right that Icebox is the best non-duelist map, I'd overlooked that.

and a Jett too, raze quickly became the dominant Duelist on sunset

that was the one I was trying to think of! I feel like their relative success was mostly due to their level of competition though, iirc they got demolished at ascension with it. But it's definitely not unviable.

you're right, i was only thinking in reference to the maps in rotation but i'd completely forgotten about g2 (and others') icebox comps.

Will no duelist comps ever be meta, or even viable, again?

The current map pool is Abyss, Bind, Fracture, Haven, Lotus, Pearl, Split

Historically the only map that has ever seen viable 0-duelist play has been Pearl, and that was during the Chamber meta. The comp in question was KAY/O, Fade, Astra, Viper, and Chamber. Even with a nerfed Chamber this comp could be redesigned to be viable within the current meta, maybe something like KAY/O, Fade, Astra, Harbor, Cypher? This allows at once strong map-control ability, executing ability, and post-plant ability, as well as retaining strong defensive identity. The only thing lacking is an OPer, which is pretty good on Pearl.

Abyss is a strong OPing map, Jett had been in basically all of the compositions up to now, either that or a Yoru-based composition.

Bind has never seen true zero-duelist comps at the high level; Raze (and very rarely Neon/Jett/Yoru) is a staple of every composition.

FPX ran zero-duelist on Fracture before, but that was at the very beginning; Raze or Neon has been present in basically every composition since.

Haven saw Sentinels run a no-duelist comp; again, this was the exception rather than the rule.

Lotus is a newer map and probably saw more experimentation of zero-duelist than I remember, but it seems still that a Duelist is usually meta.

Split is another heavy Raze map, and especially with the prevalence of double Duelist, zero-duelist does not seem very viable either.

This begs the question: why was zero-duelist ever a thing? Well, the Chamber meta allowed for an OPer, and also someone to take aggressive fights on attack. Because Chamber also covered the sentinel role, this freed up a spot for an extra initiator or controller for even more abilities to be used in various ways. Nowadays with the Chamber nerf, any no-duelist comp has to either have a playstyle in which you consistently take and win opening duels, which is a huge ask, or make up for it with the sheer amount of map-controlling abilities, which is perhaps a bigger ask.

So overall, as much as I loved seeing no-duelist comps in 2022, I don't think it'll ever be viable again. You're free to disagree though; I'm just a guy who watches and yaps without much basis in what I say.

Thoughts?

I think usually it depends on player flexibility. Some teams have their recon initiator as their flex (C0M on 2023 EG) and some have their flash initiator as their flex (kiNgg 2023 LEV). Also, depending on if teams choose to pair Tejo with a Sova/Fade or a KAY/O/Breach.

Harbor Omen Astra Sova Vyse

is VLR showing the agents wrong?

thank you!

could you try mine

wow… this really doesn’t look good for ttr

Who else got poached?

didn’t he igl in 2022 tho on raze?

There is not a single Spanish player.

GMBLERS has 2 italians, a bulgarian, a finn, and a portuguese.
Melilla has 3 portuguese, a pole, and a russian.
Falke has 2 lithuanians, a pole, an italian, and a bulgarian.
HGE has 2 russians, a belarussian, a finn, and a lithuanian.

Totals: 3 Italians, 2 Bulgarians, 4 Portuguese, 3 Russians, 2 Finns, 2 Poles, 1 Belorussian, and 3 Lithuanians.

thoughts?

oops

i think having a smokes player is better, since sayf is probably more comfortable on flex than smokes

any thoughts? do they match up well or is it just a coincidence? they haven’t beaten them for like 6 matches or something, stretching all the way back to 2021. (according to vlr)

edit: THIS IS THE WRONG WAY AROUJD MB

i made a spreadsheet for this a while back lol, here’s two other teams:
czechia - marteen, Minny, MAGNUM, Jesse, Nunmeister/alexiik
Denmark - pa1ze, nille, avova, cullumx, ri4d

i think if you make his wall longer, pass through walls, and you can activate it on command. but that would be too powerful so you gotta make it recharge. maybe make it his e instead.

for his new c you move the molly there but instead of healing yourself it makes the enemy die quicker. i think that’s a fair trade off.

and he doesn’t need more flashes. maybe another smoke would be nice.

and for his ult, something that advantages u in a 1v1 is good but run it back is rly bad - just see the scream victor clip. solution? make it so none of you can see anything for like 15 meters. also just get rid of the respawn - it’s too extra.

thoughts? this rework would help phoenix a little i think.

something is just better than sheydos tbh.

on jett maps:
something jett
chron flashes
trexx scan
demon1 smokes
nats senti

on raze maps:
something scans (he’s been playing fade and gekko)
trexx raze
etc

on neon maps:
chron neon
something scans
trexx flashes
etc

on raze double controller maps
trexx raze
something fade
chron kj
demon1 omen
nats viper

why not alfa duelist, woot flex, mrfalin smokes, then elite on sentinel?

he played it well during the chamber era on ghost. otherwise let zellsis play an initiator

they can just run a gekko comp on sunset, it’s not out of the meta

zekken raze john fade n4rrate gekko zellsis brim bang viper

btw how do you even find news abt how much ppls buyouts are?

btw how do you even find news abt how much ppls buyouts are?

the thing is i’ve mostly seen people rating them lowly

Verno's also played Brimstone in the past in certain comps, and also Yoru, KJ, etc. I think he's pretty flexible.

that's only because of Alfa's insane aim though, they were borderline pugging that map.

Asuna - Neon, Cryo - ? Do you stick Cryo on Breach and hope for the best? or Cryo Omen, bang Breach? or Cryo Sova, eeiu Breach? not a huge fan of either of those options.

Same with maps like Sunset, where the duelist isn't Jett and it's a double initiator, 100T run into some trouble with roles.

i agree with your point about asuna's agent pool, but for instance, that haven comp, while being a good one-off comp, probably isn't good enough to make it your main choice. there isn't a way for Asuna to fit into the meta Breach comp on haven, unless he were to play breach, which he hasn't done at all. Obviously this is rather nitpicky, but the same concept could apply to other maps.

and there were many problems with NRG, replacing Victor with someone else wasn't going to change much.

jawgemo is 100% the better player but as an NRG fan I didn't want to hope for too much lmao
I agree with all your points though that is an insanely stacked lineup

these are all actually crazy good

I like the trio of brawk flyuh and v1c a lot, i'd rather have Mitch over flyuh though, and crashies/marved have proven more than brawk/v1c, but if they wanted to gamble on younger players instead then I like the alternative.

I also rly like the furbsa shoutout, that guy is insane

you'd rather keep Asuna?
I think Victor provides the same aggressive playstyle as Asuna while adding both championship experience and flexibility. For example, on Haven 100T had to play a Sova-KAY/O comp, which is very uncommon on Haven and frankly not quite as good. With Victor replacing Asuna, he could easily play Killjoy and have Boostio flex to Breach. Vic can also play Raze to a similar, if not higher, level than Asuna and he was the one that pioneered Neon all the way back in 2022 (and we saw limited flashes of this level this year).
I must admit that I'm an OPTIC fan who wants Vic to get picked up by someone, but I truly think he's a better fit than Asuna.

G2 -icy +Jawgemo
Clear upgrade over icy. G2 becomes serious contenders.

SEN -Sacy +N4rrate
This would be a pipe dream, N4rrate can play Jett on Ascent/Abyss/Icebox where zekken can play Sova. He adds to an already fragging-heavy Sentinels team.

NRG -Victor -crashies +mada +Verno
Obviously if they can get Demon1 they should but mada is 100% the next-best alternative. He had the highest rating in Challengers and showed flashes of being an absolute demon. Verno obviously is a no-brainer, with the bonkar connection another factor.

100T -Asuna +Victor
This is where it starts to get controversial, I think Asuna's time has come and replacing him with Victor, arguably NRG's best player in split 1, is to me at the very least a sidegrade-risk worth taking. Victor also fits well next to Cryo, with the added benefit of being able to play sentinel and Boostio playing Gekko/Breach if needed.

C9 -(everyone except OXY) +Marved +XXiF +mitch +crashies
They build a new team around OXY. mitch is the best IGL on the market by far and Marved/crashies brings incredible vet experience while also being insane players in their own right. If I'm C9, I'm taking the odds that at least one of them is reverting to their peak form. XXiF is the best sentinel in T2 NA and probably their best choice if they want to move on from moose.

EG -everyone +gMd +v1c +zeldris +Rossy +brawk
This is a random budget roster I pieced together, in the style of EG. gMd is probably the next best IGL, v1c and brawk are perhaps the best remaining T2 players, zeldris is a beast obviously, and Rossy rounds out with vet experience.

Thoughts? what moves do you want to see?

earlier in the year he was playing Cypher in their sunset comp, which accounts for most of the rounds. he also played Cypher in this Lotus game.

yeah I had to make the cutoff 100 rounds, so that excludes a lot of ppl like w0ot on iso and heybay/mazino on deadlock

(Minimum 100 rounds)

Astra

Highest rated - TLN JitBoyS - 1.33 rating
Lowest rated - FNC Boaster - 0.74 rating
Most played - FPX BerLIN - 585 rounds

Breach

Highest rated - TS invy - 1.19 rating
Lowest rated - TLN Crws and BBL pAura - 0.76 rating
Most played - TE heybay - 490 rounds

Brimstone

Highest rated - LOUD tuyz - 1.25 rating
both CHICHOO and Smoggy have higher vlr ratings, but these only include their games at Champs/Kickoff, and don't take into account the regular season games. Other Chinese players may be disqualified by similar criteria.
Lowest rated - DRX MaKo - 0.96 rating
heybay has far worse stats than MaKo and likely would have a lower rating
Most played - G2 valyn - 358 rounds

Chamber

Highest rated - T1 Sayaplayer - 1.23 rating
Lowest rated - FUT cNed - 1.12 rating
Most played - T1 xccurate - 244 rounds

Clove

Highest rated - EDG Smoggy - 1.27 rating
Lowest rated - DRX Flashback - 1.11 rating (Life has worse stats but again the China thing)
Most rounds - EDG Smoggy - 123 rounds

Cypher

Highest rated - KC MAGNUM - 1.25 rating
Lowest rated - EG Apoth - 0.79 rating (Yosemite has worse stats)
Most rounds - TH benjyfishy - 1264 rounds

Deadlock

Highest rated - SEN johnqt - 0.92 rating
Lowest rated - SEN johnqt - 0.92 rating
Most rounds - SEN johnqt - 105 rounds

Fade

Highest rated - KC N4RRATE - 1.34 rating
Lowest rated - BBL reazy - 0.82 rating
Most played - 100T eeiu - 599 rounds

Gekko

Highest rated - KC N4RRATE - 1.17 rating
Lowest rated - BBL reazy - 0.72 rating
Most played - FPX AAAAY - 713 rounds

Harbor

Highest rated - TLN JitBoyS - 1.17 rating
Lowest rated - DFM neth - 0.72 rating (DRG Shion7 is also a contender)
Most played - LEV Mazino - 599 rounds

Iso

Highest rated - FNC Alfajer - 1.43 rating
Lowest rated - FNC Alfajer - 1.43 rating
Most played - FNC Alfajer - 156 rounds

Jett

Highest rated - 100T Cryocells - 1.30 rating
Lowest rated - TH MiniBoo - 0.74 rating
Most played - GenG t3xture - 1256 rounds

KayO

Highest rated - TS invy - 1.20 rating
Lowest rated - MIBR mazin - 0.69 rating
Most played - GenG Munchkin - 933 rounds

Killjoy

Highest rated - FNC Alfajer - 1.09 rating (CHICHOO, FengF, Kai, Rb are all possibly higher rated)
Lowest rated - TLN Surf - 0.78 rating
Most played - GenG Meteor - 1330 rounds

Neon

Highest rated - VIT Sayf - 1.29 rating
Lowest rated - LOUD saadhak - 0.78 rating (TvirusLuke possibly worse)
Most played - TH MiniBoo - 759 rounds

Omen

Highest rated - 100T bang - 1.19 rating (CHICHOO possibly higher)
Lowest rated - NAVI ANGE1 - 0.63 rating
Most played - GenG Karon - 1425 rounds

Phoenix

Highest rated - M8 nataNk - 1.13 rating
Lowest rated - LOUD qck - 0.98 rating
Most played - LOUD qck - 284 rounds

Raze

Highest rated - FNC Alfajer - 1.32 rating
Lowest rated - BLD yay and GIA Fit1nho - 0.76 rating
Most played - GenG t3xture - 1125 rounds

Reyna

Highest rated - PRX something - 1.07 rating
Lowest rated - PRX something - 1.07 rating
Most played - PRX something - 178 rounds

Sage

Highest rated - PRX d4v41 - 1.17 rating
Lowest rated - TL Mistic - 0.76 rating
Most played - PRX d4v41 - 287 rounds

Skye

Highest rated - TS Wild0reoo - 1.12 rating
Lowest rated - MIBR mazin - 0.77 rating (TEC QuiYe possibly worse)
Most played - GenG Lakia - 763 rounds

Sova

Highest rated - FNC Leo - 1.28 rating
Lowest rated - M8 beyAz - 0.77 rating (DRG Dingwei possibly worse)
Most played - TH RieNs - 1265 rounds

Viper

Highest rated - FNC Chronicle - 1.21 rating
Lowest rated - FUR kon4n - 0.68 rating
Most played - GenG Munchkin - 1451 rounds

Yoru

Highest rated - NAVI ardiis - 1.33 rating
Lowest rated - G2 icy - 0.71 rating
Most played - FNC Derke - 494 rounds

Americas:
Controller: s0m
Sentinel: leaf
Duelist: aspas
Flex/IGL: kiNgg
Initiator: zekken

EMEA:
Controller/IGL: MrFaliN
Sentinel: Chronicle
Duelist: Wo0t
Flex: N4RRATE
Initiator: Leo

APAC:
Controller: primmie
Sentinel/IGL: d4v41
Duelist: something
Flex: f0rsaken
Initiator: invy

CN:
Controller: Smoggy
Sentinel: v0okashu
Duelist: Kai
Flex: Zmjjkk
Initiator: AAAAY
(no IGL needed)

current. All time some very different picks would have been made

no way bro has SA flair still saying that

i was debating at the last second, in the end i just wanted at least one chinese player lmao, but i could 100% see the argument for zekken

A: aspas
B: BuZz
C: Chronicle
D: Derke
E: Elite
F: f0rsaken
G: grubinho
H: heat
I: invy
J: Jinggg
K: Karon
L: Leo
M: MaKo (Meteor?)
N: N4RRATE
O: OXY
P: paTiTek
Q: qRaxs
R: RieNs
S: something
T: t3xture
U: UNFAKE (literally no tier 1 players)
V: valyn
W: Wo0t
X: xccurate
Y: yetujey
Z: ZmjjKK (zekken?)

Okobotro 🗿