Is Sacy better than Chronicle?

#1

AltonBu02

1 Champs win + 1 Non-Champs win > 3 Non-champs wins

Champs is the most important major of the year by far surely it has way more of an impact on someone's legacy no?

#2

trembolonaRage

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no

#3

AltonBu02

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why? Are you telling me Madrid has equal importance to Champs? When I ask who won in 2023, your first thought is EG no? Champs is THE major of the year.

#7

Gutwi

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EG themselves think that FNC 2023 > EG 2023

#11

AltonBu02

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that quite literally adds nothing to this conversation. Doesn't change the fact that Champs is by far the most important tournament.

#14

Gutwi

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Didnt u ask if 2x non champs tour>champs tour?

#17

AltonBu02

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Yeah, but what you said is quite literally irrelevant to the argument you are trying to make.

#20

Gutwi

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Do you not get that the champ winners themselves think that winning 2x international events in a row is more impressive, so Chronicle > Sacy?

#24

AltonBu02

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can you link the exact clip so i can see what they said? By the way a humble opinion doesn't change the fact that Masters are just stepping stones for the big event of the year, Champs.

#54

skulduggery

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so you're saying the best team in 2021 was acend LMAO?

#80

AltonBu02

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The real question to ask is if acend was the most accomplished team in 2021. And I would say yes they were. Results are the only thing that matter when it comes to success at the end of the day.

#28

akami

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bro nobody said that

#46

2bored

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who in eg said that?

#53

YeaUrMum

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Source: I made it up 😭
The biggest praise I remember listening from EG was that fnatic were playing very good before champs

#4

kskm

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i feel they are equally good support players who won with some insanely good players on their team

#49

merciless-pity8989-89

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chronicle has more longevity tho, might seem odd to say considering sacy won a masters this year and chronicle didn’t but i feel it’s long gone the day where sacy can take over maps consistently with both fragging and utility, while i believe chroncle has been doing that since 2021

#5

shrike-

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both are in goat conversation

#9

laeDLaer

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Sacy is not even top 10 oat let’s be realistic

#16

shrike-

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greatest of all time ≠ best of all time

sacy has a champs and a masters

#29

EdsonTresPernas

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Sacy looked like Thanos in Ascent, 32 kills on a map in the Champions final is insane

#58

Enquiemmm

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Sacy is out of top 20

#6

Diebs

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chronicle better honestly

#8

ccccc_

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Never

#10

MissesHisShots

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if you look at it through the scope of trophies and nothing else, then maybe

however, Sacy has a 1 year gap in his resume on a mediocre SEN team

Chronicle staying relevant for so long + always being near the top of the competition (even if only regionally) is more impressive

both players are insane but right now I'll take Chronicle over Sacy

#12

AltonBu02

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I would too, but this is mostly a post to show that Sacy is in talks as one of the greats, especially with how many people don't even bring him up when they talk about who has achieved the most in valorant.

#32

Ausam

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yea true but also getting 2 tourneys is no easy feat ,especially champs. So when a player has that there is definitely something to them that is not average. We may or may not see what they bring, but there is def something there.

#33

Rishoo

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Would Chronicle's time in m3c not be considered a gap in his resume too? He didn't qualify for any international events in 2022, similar to Sacy in 2023.

#42

MissesHisShots

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that's a fair point, however I'm willing to chuck this one up to circumstances outside of his control (GMB the org collapse, Russia attack on Ukraine), and even still M3C still had some level of dominance regionally and just missed out in LCQ GF, and I can't say the same for SEN.

again, both players are among some of the best in their regions (and itw) but in my opinion Chronicle is better (also I'm a little biased)

#13

xLeo

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HELL NAAH

#15

Dybala21

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Nope, legacy wise and mechanically wise Chron is better, sorry Sacy

#18

AltonBu02

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mechanically I agree, but how is Sacy lacking when it comes to achievements?

#19

Dybala21

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Both are close but Chronicle just edges him. If Sacy had a good 2023, then I would say they’re the same

#51

merciless-pity8989-89

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he’s isn’t “lacking” they are close in a achievements but chronicle didn’t really have a bad year. You could say 2022 was a bad year but his team had a few non-valorant issues. Also chronicle has a tournament MVP which sacy lacks. His stats are also miles better

#21

Skoepdoep2

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Lol Chron is simply a better player both util and aim wise

#23

AltonBu02

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util is debatable imo. Aim wise Chronicle clears. Most people place a heavy emphasis on trophies when it comes to what makes a player great. I'm just saying that if people do truly think that, then Sacy should be up there as well right next to Chronicle.

#37

Skoepdoep2

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that's just dumb if you're a dogshit player who went negative during champs and your team still won then you still aren't good

#38

AltonBu02

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I'm not saying I agree if anything I think most people place too much of an emphasis on trophies but I digress + that doesn't apply to Sacy who played insane when Loud won and good when Sen won

#73

Huitzilopochtli

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bro just put chron in Sacys situation and Sen would be fire, hes doing a decent job but gets teamcarried most of the time, as when you would put Chronicle in the same situtation a lot of matches would be more decisive wins by far and some losses more closer, Loud 2023 had the best 3 players at the time in their Roster (Less, Aspas and Pancada) and Sen Madrid had a fresh JohnQT, Zekken hard entries and insane Tenz performances on smokes (and Zellsis), whereas Chron had insane performances in an alr super stacked team and is seen as one of the if not the best Flex player in the world

#77

AltonBu02

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In Madrid, Sacy did his role and while he wasn't the 1st or 2nd option there have been majors that Chronicle has won where the same applies for him as well. I think you mean Loud 2022 by the way cause that was when they won Champs. And in that run, Sacy was putting up performances as insane as everyone else on the team. Just like Chronicle, he had insane performances in an already stacked team. Literally anyone on that team could have won the MVP. Around that time he was also seen as one of the best initiators in the world. I think you might need a refresher about Loud 2022 run, cause you are clearly underrating how much of an impact Sacy had in those games.

#87

Huitzilopochtli

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i meant 2022 my mistake, i think he was good dont get me wrong but i think Chronicle had more moments and carried more games for fnatic/Gambit as Sacy did in all respect

#88

AltonBu02

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yeah i can agree with that. Chronicle had more consistent and overall better performance. Sacy mostly peaked in 2022 Champs and while he still was a pretty good player after, he wasn't as good.

#22

jixk

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i mean any champs before 2023 is a masters with different color scheme there was zero difference if i am remembering correctly
chorn clears regradless better agent pool better mechs better consistency

#26

flanador

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Champs has always had a different design so thats plain wrong.

#27

jixk

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i was talking about the format and win value why did you get stuck on the color scheme part yeah it had diff design too thats about it

#31

flanador

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because it was wrong and diminishes the actual value of champs?!?

#35

jixk

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can you genuinely give me proof that champs before 2023 was any different from masters

#41

flanador

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https://x.com/ValorantEsports/status/1469879716270256130 if you're referring to the trophy then yes, it has always looked different from masters

#25

jawn

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nah he is just more accomplished

#30

akami

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winning champions is different, much more teams, the teams are more developed than in the start of the year, A LOT more money involved as well, and the status

#78

AltonBu02

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not to mention a good ol theme song that they make specifically for Champs every year

#34

0atmeaLLL

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Chronicle > Sacy end of conversation

#36

Rocky54

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Bro can't be serious 😂

#39

anyth1ng

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only one is bald

#40

Ballsamolee

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chronicle only had 2 non champs wins

#52

merciless-pity8989-89

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he has 3

#43

Hades_Loves_Rb

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IMO you have to look at how they performed during their wins-and the level of play at the tourney
Chronicle
Berlin: Was a big part of why they won-but it was 2021 farmers leauge so competition level on the floor
Lock//IN: Didnt play a big part into why they won at all-Beat mid ass SEN Furia 100T and Navi and played like shit vs the only good team Loud
Tokyo: Was the third best player on his team-Competition was not high beat NRG w/Sage ardiis, PRX/Cgrs, but beat Good team EG twice

Sacy
Istanbul: Second/Third best player on the team-Level of Competiton Very High Beating Optic twice, DRX, Zeta, and Lev
Madrid: Played a part but was the fourth best player at Madrid-Level of competition was low only good team was GenG

They both have similar performances during their wins, but I think Sacy takes it purely on level of play

#44

AltonBu02

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Yeah I do agree that he played the biggest role as the second best player in the 2021 run (behind nats), but as you said, the competition back then was super low

#55

merciless-pity8989-89

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Lock/in Chronicle was important to his team. 1.12 rating with 203 acs is elite despite you judgement of the conpetition.

Also, an important thing to consider was how easily sacy was replaced. You can def argue that individuallly Cauanzin was better by far in 2023 and played like their 3rd best player. Not saying that tuyz was bad, but had LOUD kept Pancada, 2023 would probably look a lot different

#61

Hades_Loves_Rb

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ok but cauanzin is also an insane player. Thats like saying if chronicle was replaced by woot then the team would function much better

#45

7whanzussjwbsysbbejskaoao

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sacy > chronicle purely on level of play

chronicle > sacy overall

#47

babysasuke

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LOCK//IN counts as much as an NSG weekly

Of couse Sacy is better, he shows up when it matters

b0tnicle shows up to champs and drops Boaster numbers

#48

RzqoFoxie

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That's a funny joke. They ain't even close
Sacy is a nobody next to Chronicle

#50

spe4rch

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At being bald? Yes

#56

SilentCypher

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Aight so if the basis is stats then Chronicle is better solely based on the fact that Champs is more forgiving with 16 teams and double elimination and Lock//In was single elimination 32 teams

#57

Enquiemmm

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One always carries his team
One always getting carried
It's not even close

#79

AltonBu02

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Sacy did his role well and saved Sen with his clutches in Madrid and was insane in Champs 2022. Where did this narrative come from that Sacy always gets carried to tournament wins? And Chronicle was never the second option or above in any tournament he won besides the one he won with Gambit (where he was the second option behind nats). He does his role extremely well, but he is not carrying Fnatic.

#59

waxsly

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Sachi is getting carried chronicle has won 3 trophies and was mvp once and always played consistently so good so no

#60

nobody___100

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2022 sacy > 2022 chronicle
all other years chronicle clears

#62

Lucrix

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They’re both good players, but surely chronicle is way better, no?

#63

sklein

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skill wise, chronicle> and it's not even close

legacy wise we can have more of a conversation
I agree that single champs win adds more to ones legacy than single masters/lockin win, but to be honest, being the first player to win back to back internationals and also first to have 3 while rest of the world (outside of rest of fnc) had at most 1 is a legacy of it self + chronicle has mvp title on top of it

#75

Lucrix

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Also, call me crazy but hasn’t every champs tourney been the same format as the other masters besides this year? I’ve never really considered champs being higher than masters

#64

Mortadelo

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There is one factor people seem to forget
Chronicle has made the finals in 4 of of the 6 events he has attended

The other 2 are a top 4 and a 7/8

#65

AltonBu02

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Imo there are no other team achievements besides winning the tournament. Or at least the impact of those placements should be very low. That's just the way it is in every sport. Just as an example, no one congratulates Lebron for making so many finals in a row (in fact, they use his final losses to show he's not great which I don't agree with either). I guess it can show consistency, but yeah, second place is almost never talked about as team success due to how big of a gap there is between first and second place. Chronicle a hundred percent clears Sacy individually, however, legacy wise I think you can argue either way. Personally, I lean towards sacy because of the importance of Champs. Regardless, Chronicle is still the better player overall and this thread was just trying to show that Sacy should be talked about more as a great player.

#67

Mortadelo

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Only 1 of those finals he placed second, and ik what you mean nobody remembers second places. My point is more towards consistency, every time he makes it there you know he's gonna perform

#69

AltonBu02

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Your point about consistency makes complete sense. Even without proof of consistency, I already believe that Chronicle clears Sacy as an overall player just from how good he is every time I've seen him play ever since he was on Gambit. Compared to Sacy who performed amazing in 2023 Champions, but didn't perform as well in other tournaments. This thread was more to bring more attention towards Sacy's achievements as they are not talked about nearly enough as Chronicle's.

#76

Mortadelo

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Fair enough

#66

cohnr

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looking at the actual players:

chronicle has been a consistent top player in a top team for almost 4 years

sacy has been inconsistent although great in 2022 and at the start of 2024, but also considered pretty weak in his team

#68

melodymur

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one can easily carry his team and the other can't

#70

AltonBu02

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? Chronicle has never been regarded as the carry/best player of his team. He can have ocasionally pop off performances and top the leader board, but sacy has done that in his stint at loud as well. I guess Chronicle is most consistent with those performances overall though.

#81

melodymur

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funny how you already know who I am talking about without me having to say it

#82

AltonBu02

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yeah cause that's the overall narrative and what like half these people are saying in this thread. Chronicle carries his team to victories while Sacy gets carried. It's honestly wrong, but there's nothing I can do about it.

#83

melodymur

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Well like you said before, Chronicle is most consistent during his performances, that's why people consider him better than Sacy, why do you think people praise aspas so much?

#84

AltonBu02

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I think he's better than sacy as well, especially individually. But not enough people talk about Sacy especially with how much he's achieved. They think the gap between him and Chronicle is infinitely large when they are both stellar supports with a similar level of achievements. Chronicle is better and more consistent, but more love needs to be given to Sacy as he is one of the greats.

#85

melodymur

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I agree, even though he gets carried, he has brought a lot of impact in decisive rounds for Sentinels, he is pretty smart. Either way I am just answering the title

#71

michaelisupset

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mechanically? no
consistency? no
angel pool diversity? no
util? maybe
comms/calling? maybe
experience? yea

#72

AltonBu02

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in terms of achievements, who do you think wins?

#74

michaelisupset

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oh my bad, then I think they’re pretty even but chronicle edges it out due to him being consistently at the top except in 2022

#90

Rey55

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Stop with the util myth for once. FFS. Sacy isn't better at anything, they have the same level of experience and despite that sacy makes rookie level mistakes. This comparison is kinda shameless considering how much of an NPC sacy was in both his masters and champs win. Those two teams would have won regardless

#86

quitzxl

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unreal amounts of cope

#89

Rey55

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In terms of PR? YES. He's the best, he has all of Brazils favelas shilling for him but if we are talking capability, he isn't even better than MIBR mazin. Let's be FR

#91

envyz

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Chronicle is just way more consistent, Sacy on some days can get his 2 or 3 and on others is just horrible