Nongshim RedForce 2-1 Talon
2 Overtimes
Primmie aces
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
11
10
+1
|
7
11
-4
|
6
12
-6
|
7
4
+3
|
5
10
-5
|
Crws
TLN
|
10
7
+3
|
11
6
+5
|
8
8
+0
|
7
14
-7
|
5
7
-2
|
primmie
TLN
|
11
9
+2
|
11
9
+2
|
11
5
+6
|
18
8
+10
|
13
5
+8
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
15
8
+7
|
9
9
+0
|
12
5
+7
|
7
5
+2
|
10
7
+3
|
ban
TLN
|
4
9
-5
|
5
6
-1
|
9
7
+2
|
8
10
-2
|
7
13
-6
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
4
3
+1
|
2
4
-2
|
2
5
-3
|
2
0
+2
|
0
1
-1
|
Crws
TLN
|
1
1
+0
|
1
0
+1
|
1
2
-1
|
2
2
+0
|
1
1
+0
|
primmie
TLN
|
0
4
-4
|
|
1
1
+0
|
1
0
+1
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
3
1
+2
|
2
1
+1
|
|
2
0
+2
|
|
ban
TLN
|
1
2
-1
|
1
0
+1
|
2
3
-1
|
0
2
-2
|
0
1
-1
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
Crws
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
ban
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
2K | 3K | 4K | 5K | 1v1 | 1v2 | 1v3 | 1v4 | 1v5 | ECON | PL | DE | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Crws
TLN
|
|
9
|
1
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
|
|
42
|
4
|
1
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
7
|
|
1
|
|
1
|
|
|
|
|
44
|
3
|
2
|
ban
TLN
|
|
5
|
2
|
|
|
|
1
|
|
|
|
35
|
10
|
0
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
10
|
4
|
|
|
1
|
1
|
|
|
|
66
|
3
|
3
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
16
|
2
|
2
|
|
2
|
|
|
|
|
80
|
2
|
3
|
Persia
NS
|
|
7
|
3
|
1
|
|
|
1
|
1
|
|
|
53
|
8
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
|
4
|
2
|
2
|
|
|
1
|
|
|
|
55
|
1
|
0
|
Francis
NS
|
|
8
|
3
|
|
|
1
|
|
|
|
|
55
|
13
|
1
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
10
|
1
|
|
|
2
|
1
|
|
|
|
50
|
3
|
2
|
margaret
NS
|
|
6
|
1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
48
|
0
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
3
5
-2
|
2
5
-3
|
3
2
+1
|
3
1
+2
|
1
4
-3
|
Crws
TLN
|
2
4
-2
|
3
1
+2
|
2
2
+0
|
2
7
-5
|
0
3
-3
|
primmie
TLN
|
2
3
-1
|
4
4
+0
|
7
3
+4
|
4
3
+1
|
6
2
+4
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
9
5
+4
|
3
4
-1
|
1
3
-2
|
2
2
+0
|
0
3
-3
|
ban
TLN
|
1
1
+0
|
3
3
+0
|
2
3
-1
|
4
5
-1
|
4
5
-1
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
1
2
-1
|
1
1
+0
|
1
2
-1
|
|
0
1
-1
|
Crws
TLN
|
|
|
|
0
1
-1
|
|
primmie
TLN
|
0
1
-1
|
|
1
1
+0
|
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
2
1
+1
|
1
1
+0
|
|
1
0
+1
|
|
ban
TLN
|
|
|
0
2
-2
|
0
1
-1
|
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
Crws
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
ban
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
2K | 3K | 4K | 5K | 1v1 | 1v2 | 1v3 | 1v4 | 1v5 | ECON | PL | DE | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Crws
TLN
|
|
2
Round 16
Francis
margaret
Round 21
margaret
Persia
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
37
|
3
|
0
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
1
Round 15
Dambi
margaret
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
44
|
1
|
1
|
ban
TLN
|
|
2
Round 1
Ivy
Francis
Round 4
Ivy
Francis
|
2
Round 8
Francis
margaret
Ivy
Round 22
Ivy
Persia
margaret
|
|
|
|
1
Round 8
Ivy
margaret
|
|
|
|
41
|
2
|
0
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
2
Round 13
Dambi
Persia
Round 14
Dambi
Francis
|
1
Round 11
Francis
Dambi
margaret
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
49
|
0
|
1
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
8
Round 2
margaret
Ivy
Round 8
Persia
Dambi
primmie
Round 12
margaret
Francis
Round 13
Ivy
margaret
Round 14
margaret
Ivy
Round 15
Francis
Persia
Round 19
Dambi
margaret
Round 21
Ivy
Francis
|
|
1
Round 6
Persia
Ivy
margaret
Francis
|
|
1
Round 21
Francis
|
|
|
|
|
76
|
0
|
1
|
Persia
NS
|
|
4
Round 3
JitBoyS
Governor
Round 5
Governor
JitBoyS
Round 7
JitBoyS
ban
Round 22
Crws
primmie
|
1
Round 10
ban
primmie
Governor
|
|
|
|
|
1
Round 4
JitBoyS
Governor
ban
|
|
|
61
|
0
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
|
3
Round 5
Crws
primmie
Round 9
primmie
ban
Round 12
Crws
Governor
|
1
Round 20
Crws
Governor
JitBoyS
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
56
|
0
|
0
|
Francis
NS
|
|
4
Round 3
ban
Crws
Round 4
primmie
Crws
Round 8
primmie
Crws
Round 15
ban
Governor
|
1
Round 19
Crws
primmie
ban
|
|
|
1
Round 22
ban
|
|
|
|
|
71
|
8
|
0
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
5
Round 9
Governor
Crws
Round 11
ban
JitBoyS
Round 12
primmie
ban
Round 15
JitBoyS
primmie
Round 16
ban
Crws
|
|
|
|
1
Round 15
primmie
|
1
Round 12
primmie
ban
|
|
|
|
65
|
0
|
1
|
margaret
NS
|
|
3
Round 17
Governor
Crws
Round 18
ban
primmie
Round 20
primmie
ban
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
45
|
0
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
3
2
+1
|
1
3
-2
|
1
7
-6
|
2
2
+0
|
1
4
-3
|
Crws
TLN
|
5
1
+4
|
7
3
+4
|
2
5
-3
|
5
3
+2
|
5
1
+4
|
primmie
TLN
|
3
4
-1
|
4
2
+2
|
2
1
+1
|
3
2
+1
|
4
3
+1
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
5
1
+4
|
2
3
-1
|
5
2
+3
|
3
3
+0
|
4
3
+1
|
ban
TLN
|
2
5
-3
|
2
2
+0
|
6
2
+4
|
3
4
-1
|
1
4
-3
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
1
0
+1
|
0
1
-1
|
0
2
-2
|
2
0
+2
|
|
Crws
TLN
|
1
0
+1
|
|
0
2
-2
|
2
1
+1
|
1
0
+1
|
primmie
TLN
|
0
2
-2
|
|
|
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
1
0
+1
|
|
|
1
0
+1
|
|
ban
TLN
|
1
1
+0
|
1
0
+1
|
1
1
+0
|
0
1
-1
|
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
Crws
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
ban
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
2K | 3K | 4K | 5K | 1v1 | 1v2 | 1v3 | 1v4 | 1v5 | ECON | PL | DE | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Crws
TLN
|
|
6
Round 2
Ivy
Dambi
Round 8
Ivy
Persia
Round 11
margaret
Dambi
Round 13
Francis
Persia
Round 14
Persia
Ivy
Round 19
Francis
Ivy
|
1
Round 3
Dambi
margaret
Persia
|
|
|
|
|
1
Round 8
margaret
Francis
Persia
|
|
|
62
|
1
|
1
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
2
Round 13
margaret
Ivy
Round 19
Dambi
Persia
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
33
|
1
|
1
|
ban
TLN
|
|
2
Round 2
margaret
Francis
Round 9
margaret
Francis
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
40
|
8
|
0
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
2
Round 7
margaret
Dambi
Round 21
Francis
margaret
|
2
Round 4
Dambi
Persia
margaret
Round 6
Dambi
Ivy
Francis
|
|
|
1
Round 11
Persia
|
1
Round 6
Ivy
Francis
|
|
|
|
68
|
1
|
1
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
4
Round 1
Francis
Persia
Round 7
Francis
Ivy
Round 20
Persia
Dambi
Round 23
Francis
margaret
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
54
|
0
|
1
|
Persia
NS
|
|
2
Round 5
Governor
JitBoyS
Round 11
Crws
primmie
|
|
1
Round 9
Crws
JitBoyS
ban
Governor
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
50
|
8
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
|
|
1
Round 22
primmie
Governor
ban
|
1
Round 14
ban
JitBoyS
Crws
Governor
|
|
|
1
Round 14
Governor
Crws
|
|
|
|
48
|
0
|
0
|
Francis
NS
|
|
1
Round 8
primmie
Governor
Francis
|
2
Round 15
Crws
JitBoyS
ban
Round 17
primmie
JitBoyS
Crws
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
44
|
2
|
1
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
2
Round 4
JitBoyS
ban
Round 6
Governor
primmie
|
1
Round 3
ban
Governor
Crws
|
|
|
1
Round 3
Crws
|
|
|
|
|
47
|
1
|
1
|
margaret
NS
|
|
3
Round 5
Crws
ban
Round 18
Governor
JitBoyS
Round 21
Crws
Governor
|
1
Round 8
ban
JitBoyS
Crws
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
62
|
0
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
5
3
+2
|
4
3
+1
|
2
3
-1
|
2
1
+1
|
3
2
+1
|
Crws
TLN
|
3
2
+1
|
1
2
-1
|
4
1
+3
|
0
4
-4
|
0
3
-3
|
primmie
TLN
|
6
2
+4
|
3
3
+0
|
2
1
+1
|
11
3
+8
|
3
0
+3
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
1
2
-1
|
4
2
+2
|
6
0
+6
|
2
0
+2
|
6
1
+5
|
ban
TLN
|
1
3
-2
|
0
1
-1
|
1
2
-1
|
1
1
+0
|
2
4
-2
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
2
1
+1
|
1
2
-1
|
1
1
+0
|
|
|
Crws
TLN
|
0
1
-1
|
1
0
+1
|
1
0
+1
|
|
0
1
-1
|
primmie
TLN
|
0
1
-1
|
|
|
1
0
+1
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
1
0
+1
|
|
|
|
ban
TLN
|
0
1
-1
|
|
1
0
+1
|
|
0
1
-1
|
Dambi
NS
|
Persia
NS
|
margaret
NS
|
Francis
NS
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
Crws
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
ban
TLN
|
|
|
|
|
|
2K | 3K | 4K | 5K | 1v1 | 1v2 | 1v3 | 1v4 | 1v5 | ECON | PL | DE | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Crws
TLN
|
|
1
Round 10
margaret
Dambi
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
28
|
0
|
0
|
Governor
TLN
|
|
4
Round 5
margaret
Persia
Round 8
Dambi
margaret
Round 11
Dambi
Ivy
Round 15
Persia
Dambi
|
|
1
Round 14
Dambi
Ivy
Persia
Francis
|
|
1
Round 1
Persia
|
|
|
|
|
56
|
1
|
0
|
ban
TLN
|
|
1
Round 6
Francis
Ivy
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
23
|
0
|
0
|
JitBoyS
TLN
|
|
6
Round 2
margaret
Francis
Round 3
margaret
Ivy
JitBoyS
Round 4
Persia
Ivy
Round 9
Dambi
margaret
Round 11
margaret
Persia
Round 18
Persia
Ivy
|
1
Round 13
margaret
Francis
Ivy
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
80
|
2
|
1
|
primmie
TLN
|
|
4
Round 10
Francis
Persia
Round 15
Ivy
Francis
Round 17
Francis
Persia
Round 18
Dambi
Francis
|
2
Round 1
Francis
margaret
Dambi
Round 2
Ivy
Dambi
Persia
|
1
Round 12
margaret
Dambi
Francis
Ivy
|
|
1
Round 15
Francis
|
|
|
|
|
110
|
2
|
1
|
Persia
NS
|
|
1
Round 3
Crws
primmie
Persia
|
2
Round 1
primmie
JitBoyS
Governor
Round 12
Governor
primmie
ban
|
|
|
|
1
Round 3
primmie
JitBoyS
|
|
|
|
47
|
0
|
0
|
Dambi
NS
|
|
1
Round 16
primmie
Governor
|
|
1
Round 6
Crws
primmie
ban
JitBoyS
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
62
|
1
|
0
|
Francis
NS
|
|
3
Round 4
Crws
primmie
Round 13
primmie
ban
Round 15
Crws
primmie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
49
|
3
|
0
|
Ivy
NS
|
|
3
Round 9
ban
Governor
Round 10
Crws
ban
Round 16
JitBoyS
ban
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
39
|
2
|
0
|
margaret
NS
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
38
|
0
|
0
|
Hard to say who is "the best". By statistics when you take the last 4 years of VCT it's Fnatic Leo (numbers of disconnected duels, impact, KAST% / survivability and winning duels in low chance situations).
When you take Duelists and these kind of entrying players who are also anchoring etc., I'd say Derke, aspas, primmie, MiniBoo, zekken, something, Jemkin, KangKang, xeus and kaajak are the best at the moment. Like of all the players in VCT. Hard to tell who's the best - by mechanics probably Derke, aspas, primmie and xeus. That's why it's better to compare after a full season everyone who played that season incl. 2-3 majors and compare all important numbers. Compare for that specific year and then maybe make a long term comparison every 3 years.
Fact is also primmie would play even better stats at a better team. So I'd say he is def. one of the top 3 Duelist style players when it comes to pure talent. Interesting though, that he did almost no entry kills in this match. It were much more anchor kills.
I said overall by their talent they def. belong to the best and showed it already.
I also said this: That's why it's better to compare after a full season everyone who played that season incl. 2-3 majors and compare all important numbers. Compare for that specific year and then maybe make a long term comparison every 3 years.
When we talk about primmie we can talk about MiniBoo easily - and also about the others, since primmie didn't play majors yet. But people can acknowledge TALENT and mechanical abilities, skill to roam, to anchor... you can see that at players without seeing them on majors, even though they need to prove it of course that they can show it under pressure on big stages.
So I guess we agree there. Many talents need to show it on a long term.
I'm not FNC biased. I'm just into statistics because numbers don't lie.
Most deadly players in 2024 by duels (Leo by far on #1):
https://i.ibb.co/yBN74mGW/Unbenannt.png
Best players 2024 (Leo played almost 900 rounds; by far the best KAST% and best disconnected duel wins as always):
https://www.vlr.gg/stats/?event_group_id=61&event_id=all®ion=all&min_rounds=500&min_rating=1550&agent=all&map_id=all×pan=all
Best players OF ALL TIME in VCT (min. OPP raiting of 2000 and min. 750 rounds against top rated players / Leo is the #1):
https://www.vlr.gg/stats/?event_group_id=all&event_id=all®ion=all&min_rounds=750&min_rating=2000&agent=all&map_id=all×pan=all
So... it's just numbers. No bias there.
And primmies stats also don't lie. He is a menace. I'm 99% sure players like MiniBoo, primmie and xeus will show great performances on big stages.