real human take

inits who have excellent util usage but typically don't frag insane are the most underrated prototype in valorant which is crazy bc their arguably the most important role in a team. players like sacy, ethan, crashies, jonahp, simon, beyn etc will always be better and win more than compared to fragging inits like verno, trent, leo, eeiu.

crazy how verno clears all the other people you mentioned

Just wrong.

awful take

not a single org is taking sacy over verno

valid until c0m wasn't there

You are stupid. Leo has the best sova in EMEA and a fantastic initiator pool with which he can absolutely support his teammates with, because he has perfect util usage. You are defo a new gen if you think Leo is only good at fragging.

leo has 1.5 trophies eeiu has a regional trophy and you failed to mention riens who is lowkey the best initiator in the world and choked 4 grand finals last year

+1. I've felt this way for so long. Players like cauanzin, Lakia, and MrFaliN feel invaluable to me

what about someone who does both like trexx

the game is about killing people
it's required to kill people to win the rounds and the game

crazy how verno mogs everyone mentioned

I agree, and I think it makes players like Verno, Trexx and Leo even better since they're able to do both. But in general I believe that fragging initiators aren't as valuable as the support ones, especially when a top tier duelist is around. In a scenario where firepower isn't present is the only real scenario I would take a fragger over a support initiator.

lmao it's hilarious putting s0cy in the same tier as ethan, crashies and simon when none of them are "bad fraggers"
ethan is very good and crashies pre-2024 wasn't an amazing fragger but he was still miles ahead of s0cy 2023/2024.
simon has insane aim, have you even watched him play?

leo has also won more than them while being the best player on his team, unlike the frequent bottom frag initiators (s0cy, c0m) who are unarguably the least vital part of the team's win

I see your point, but Trent is a terrible example of an initiator who doesn't provide excellent util.

Lakia, d4vai, and soulcas are all great examples though imo

I could see your point until Leo. Literally won 2/3 international events in 2023 and was within Top 4 for Champs of that year. Not the best example to support your case since he was nearly 3 for 3 on internationals. Other than that, I agree since initiators benefit from setting up the team the most. However, in the worst case scenario when your team or strategy book is not working, you need the firepower to take over when someone else is simply not hitting their shots. It's why Leo is arguably an anomaly since he has some of the best util and can frag hard if need be.

Also, I know this is more of a nitpick, but it feels weird saying JonahP will win more than trent when they're on the same team. Maybe if they go separate ways who knows since it definitely requires a good system to help enable all of the actions in a round to work - fragging, setting up the frags, etc.

To be fairly honest, the best teams that win are the ones who have a system that works for all the players. Initiators are just part of that in a big way, but the system needs all parts working. You can't have amazing initiator util if your duelist is not playing off of it properly or dies before you can even let him use it properly.

There’s a point here but the examples are genuinely awful

Leo is not just a shooter and has better util than the players you mentioned for their util