Sometimes I see there will always be people who try to justify pirating, like brother stfu, it's bad no matter how you try to spin it. I pirate stuff too but never once will i justify them because I know it's just wrong.
Let me make this clear, I'm not saying you guys should stop pirating , I'm just saying let's keep the reasoning honest that's all. The only reason that's legit to me is , too expensive or the media doesn't exists anymore.
It's not, the arguments are too weak..
Free marketing - your friend who pirated the game recommended you the marketing, but why should you buy them when you can just pirate them like your friend did.
Repaying the dev- when you're at that point you're going to focus on living paycheck to paycheck and repaying the dev for what you stole is definitely not on the top of your lists.
95% of people are scared of pirating due to viruses and shit (and they should be too tbh, if you dont know what you are doing then its a huge risk) so for them just going to steam and buying a game is easier
if people have the means to buy a $500+ pc then you have to think they have the means to buy games as well
So you're saying the only way companies can stop pirating is to actually insert viruses into pirated files ππ..
But really, we're on the " too expensive excuses" zone to I won't argue with that. What I'm trying to say is some people need to get off their high horse thinking they're robin hood or something ππ
That would be stupid for the company to do so from a customer relationship viewpoint.
Also if everyone has that kind of mindset ain't nobody except few that have the means to do it will be in this industry anymore because all it takes is just for company to release the file to public and its free game ππ
point is, this is a really shit take.
the lack of the ability to own something does not inherently suggest that theft is justified. can you go rob a car rental shop and still defend yourself saying "you don't provide us with a way to own the car, therefore I'm not stealing"?
ethics of digital ownership aside, you need much more backing to justify pirating than a logically flawed tagline.
point still stands, tagline is inherently flawed. just because it isn't something physical doesn't mean the company doesn't lose something - in the case of games, they lose a potential customer. the details of whether it is strictly "ownership or not" is irrelevant to whether or not piracy is stealing (it is).
see cadence design systems vs avanti corp for an example of non-physical theft resulting in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
how serious piracy is is a different question - i'd argue its similar to shoplifting from a supermarket (whatever if its from an international megacorp, a lot worse if its your next door friendly grandma, i.e, indie studios).
doesn't change the fact its inherently unethical and therefore the "piracy isn't theft" tagline is a shit take.
I pirated CP2077 them bought an actual copy later, because I really enjoyed the game and wanted to support the devs. The truth is that people wanting to pirate weren't going to pay anyways, and for some people like me to still buy the game even after pirating is revenue that they wouldn't have gotten normally
Fair enough it really depends on the context( whether the company still exists or not), but one of the arguments I see about why people justify pirating is because they think corporations are this evil incarnate, which I have no comments, but then trying to spin it as being a Robin hood is what annoys me.
majority of people that pirate a game wouldn't have bought it even if they couldn't pirate it πΉpiracy is thought to be bad since it harms profit but if anything it helps make more profit in most cases since some people who enjoy the pirated game end up buying the real version
same applies for most other online piracy
Again it's a weak argument, those who actually bought the game will see people who pirate the game and think "why buy the game when I can just pirate it,that way I don't need to spend money"
People who pirate often coincide with people who people who don't have the money to do so. And when you don't have the money to buy the game, I doubt you will buy the game later on
nah, few people pirate a game because they literally can't buy it, they pirate it cause they'd rather spend their money on something else.
there's also been studies that showcase that there was a correlation between games being pirated and their profits increasing (in %)
https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf
this isn't to say that piracy isn't, on some level, immoral but that's a whole other argument and then we'd have to consider how overpriced some games are, the studios developing them and their relative value etc etc
I haven't read the whole thing, I've only seen extracts from it on news websites πΏ
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/
you can either check on the news or read the conclusion at the beginning
Now this is you inventing.
why buy the game when I can just pirate it,that way I don't need to spend money
People allways will want the faster and more acessible way, even more if is the original.
The vast majority of people buy the OG later, like minecraft or spotify.
These people you mentioned, are childs or literally thief mentality, i say mentality, bc even thiefs will buy the OG if is more faster.
And when you don't have the money to buy the game, I doubt you will buy the game later on
Exist hard times and light times, look at Br for example, we are both the country with most piracy, and one of the countries who most buy OG products.
I agree but I don't think piracy is as bad a practice anymore as it used to be especially for games. I think there's a ton of cases of older games gaining massive cult followings and being revived just because they were made "accessible" by the internet. Why do you think all these companies try to "remaster" like 10-20 year old games still? I'm not saying pirating is good for every single game but I think it's really healthy for game preservation in general.
The replies really missed the point. You can give any justification for doing something bad, it's still bad for the affected person/company. If you simply don't care, fair enough.
Pirates just look silly when they begin acting like vigilantes against the big studios. Like, what are these arguments bro: "pirates buy the game after", "pirates only target big studios" (false), "it's free advertisement".
It's like adblock, people block ads because they're annoying, not because the ads are doing something wrong.
Oops you got me there, fair point.
Because at the end of the day pirating is downloading stuffs without paying, that's stealing and it's wrong.Just because it is abstract or in this case digital doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm not saying I didn't do it, I did a lot too. But I'm not gonna go out of my way saying pirating is free marketing etc, that's bollocks , just say you don't have money or the media/console is no longer available lol.
I don't get this insistence on who's harmed or not, do we actually have to harm someone just so something to be wrong?
I also don't get the point of your 1st question.
Pirating is specifically wrong because it is just stealing.
I have to say it's company and ultimately it's employees who be harmed.
What's specifically is wrong about
Point A
When you pirate something it will snowball vs when you simply don't buy the product. If you pirate something others will think that they should too instead of wasting money.
Point B
But that's not the case with simply not buying, with not buying you basically said you're broke and the product doesn't suit you and move on. It is easy to move from point B to point A but as long as you don't, no one is harmed.
I don't get this insistence on who's harmed or not, do we actually have to harm someone just so something to be wrong?
yes, of course.
Pirating is specifically wrong because it is just stealing.
then what is specifically wrong with stealing?
When you pirate something it will snowball vs when you simply don't buy the product. If you pirate something others will think that they should too instead of wasting money.
so? if pirating isn't wrong, "but there will be more pirating" isn't an argument for why it's wrong.
But that's not the case with simply not buying, with not buying you basically said you're broke and the product doesn't suit you and move on. It is easy to move from point B to point A but as long as you don't, no one is harmed.
what?
You make a product, then give me a price.
I don't want to pay your price, so I steal your product and even decide re-sell it a cheaper rate to other people for some easy money.
I have done nothing wrong because you still make money, just not from me or everybody else who bought your product from me instead.
Was there any wrong-doing to you in this stream of events?
Yeah, that's what I said in my second sentence.
The pro-piracy argument is: because you own multiple copies of your product and have the ability to duplicate it, there is no harm done to you or any wrong-doing on my side if I choose to take a copy from you and even re-distribute it myself.
My argument would be that there is still wrong-doing done when you choose to take something that isn't free, no matter what it is. Of course, this depends on your own view of morality. If you don't agree that this is wrong, I can't convince you otherwise.
no it isn't. like i literally just said, i'm not deleting one of your many copies, i'm not even deleting one of your many copies that you can freely recreate, i'm not even touching your copies. someone else is just allowing me to make a copy of the copy that they purchased from you. i didn't TAKE a copy from you, in any sense of the word.
your argument sounds like you're admitting that nobody is harmed by piracy. is that correct?
I assume you're excluding psychological harm since that's not objective, so it would have to be financial, and there is no research data to prove that pirates harm digital sales of any digital media (since there's no comparison).
Though, I don't think harm is the only metric for doing something wrong (or right). If you can steal somebody elses work, knowing that they don't want you to, are you justified in doing so anyways just because they can duplicate it?
So that makes both you and your friend wrong?? What are you trying to say here. There's a reason devs or companies put a price tag on each "file" which is just a product. And you're taking them for free? If company know there's billions of people with this kind of mindset no one except few incredibly passionate + have the means to do it, will create games, because according to your argument all it takes is for one guy to buy the game and it's essentially free for everyone else because now he can share the file for free.
Are you trying to argue for the sake of arguing?
what i am saying here is that the argument "you took one of their files from them" is faulty.
if companies knew that everyone didn't want to play their game, they wouldn't make the game either. does that mean i'm obligated to play the game?
i'm arguing for the sake of something i believe in, which is that piracy is morally neutral.
ok take it as this
some AAA games are 1/4th or more of peoples' salary in some countries, such as mine (colombia), likewise these corpos are getting a shit ton of money anyway, so pirating shouldn't be that much of an issue. what I am against is pirating indie games cause those guys actually need it
Why is this suddenly a very popular thing to "discuss" online recently.
IMO pirating is the same as not voting in an election for its effect, like the big downside people claim piracy has is that you aren't supporting the people who made the game or film or whatever, which is only really true for indie studios as all the talented people who made the game arent earning commission on the game, they are either salaried or most likely just paid for their work and then released as a freelancer. All the proceeds towards the game pretty much all go to the company valuation and the execs/shareholders profits, which you can argue is the reason theyre getting paid in the first place which brings us back to my first point.
Not voting is technically bad for democracy, but there are millions of others who do vote (do buy the game) that your vote (money) is but a drop in the water. Concord being a recent example, imagine if everyone pirated concord instead of buying it. All the devs would have still been paid for their 8 years of work, the game still would have been shut down, the only people at a loss are ubisoft share holders and higher ups.
Another argument is that oh if some people pirate then everyone will pirate, mate, pirating has been around since before you were born yet people still go to the cinema (awful) and spend money renting out movies for the price of a week of food. Its a null argument as there are always gonna be way more people who just spend money without thinking, rendering the pirating is bad for the industry argument irrelevent.
If the majority of people start pirating instead of spending the extortionate prices for everything, then its effectively voting with your money. Big companies would start lowering their profit margins (which they have the full capability to do so), meaning that Dave the ceo of whatever cinema company might not have the luxury of taking a 50M bonus that year in order to cut costs and sell tickets at a price that reflects their value.
I think your whole belief comes off the back of "illegal" = morally wrong, which is just a weak hill to die on
It(the thread) was meant to question the justifications of people who pirate stuffs, and 70% of users in this thread either can't read or purposefully ignoring my point, which is just say you're broke and don't need to go out of your way to justify why pirates are cool etc.
A lot of your counter arguments revolve around others are paying anyways, and ultimately it is the CEO and the hgher ups earn those money anyways, but that doesn't make it any less wrong..
But I agree that illegal shouldn't be considered as morally wrong, I never argued in terms of legal factor tho π .
Btw have you ever considered that company might end up cutting employee's paychecks all the way just so it touches bare minimum required if they had to cut profit margin?
if theyre cutting the paychecks of employees then people arent gonna work for them, their highest talent will be paid more elsewhere so theyre just gonna produce slop, and cutting paychecks based on game selling results would defo be illegal and breach whatever contract they signed
also idk why it matters if youre broke or not, if you have money theres no necessity for you to spend it on overpriced shit, and if youre broke then it doesnt mean you shouldnt spend money on things you like
idk if people have mentioned the ultrakill dev's stance on piracy, or perhaps gabe newells famous piracy quote, but both of these people are on two sides of the game dev world yet both understand the necessity to pirate.
Culture shouldn't exist to only those who can afford it
Me personally I don't pirate games, steam has everything I need and the frequent sales means any purchase is justifiable. I do however pirate anime as crunchyroll being the western monopoly, alter translations to suit a US market instead of being accurate, censor a lot of shit, dont pay animators shit, outdated and shit website, remove comments instead of paying people to moderate them, missing loads of shows I want to watch etc.
I also pirate shows that arent on prime/netflix as I can't be expected to pay upwards of Β£100 a month to buy every single shitty streaming platform just to watch a single show/film.
edit: for another example, one of my favourite shows of all time, Sakamichi No Apollon I actually cant watch it legally anywhere in the UK, so im supposed to just never watch a show that had a profound impact on me... because piracy bad... "stealing bad" (who am I stealing from)
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