Sometimes I see there will always be people who try to justify pirating, like brother stfu, it's bad no matter how you try to spin it. I pirate stuff too but never once will i justify them because I know it's just wrong.
Let me make this clear, I'm not saying you guys should stop pirating , I'm just saying let's keep the reasoning honest that's all. The only reason that's legit to me is , too expensive or the media doesn't exists anymore.
Prasinos [#4]So, why u pirate stuff?
KOMPOSTO [#2]turks who have to spend quarter of their wage on a game:
BRs who losses 80 of wage im taxes, than 30% in a AAA. (He will need to buy DLCs too)
Skoepdoep2 [#6]its free and i'd only do it for huge companies who the loss doesnt really hurt
I'm pretty sure when people pirate they don't really think about what will happen to the company etc, they only think about themselves..
nobody___100 [#8]what about books? knowledge should be free imo
It's hard for me to judge, I pirate textbooks too, but i understand that knowledge are expensive in this day and age.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#7]
- The media isn't available anymore ( I live to play old jrpgs like chrono trigger and final fantasy)
- Too expensive ( but my preferences barely coincide with this issue so I think only number 1 that's legit)
did you just justify pirating after talking about how pirating can’t be justified? Are you retarded brother?
Refrainings [#5]what about pirating media that can't be accessed normally?
This is one of the few reasons that I can accept tbh. It's too expensive for companies to re-release them on a new media orsome games' program are just lost ( just like few final fantasy's game(cmiiw)), so the only way you can do is just pirate them.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#10]I'm pretty sure when people pirate they don't really think about what will happen to the company etc, they only think about themselves..
i mean i don't think about it when i watch a show for free on some site but for example the big bang theory isn't something that i can watch anywhere else and nobody loses money on it
meanie [#12]did you just justify pirating after talking about how pirating can’t be justified? Are you retarded brother?
I'm just saying let's keep the reasoning honest.. ain't no one is thinking about repaying the dev back after they had the money to purchase the game, it's not free marketing either, etc..
IonlywatchvcjXD [#15]I'm just saying let's keep the reasoning honest.. ain't no one is thinking about repaying the dev back after they had the money to purchase the game, it's not free marketing either, etc..
bro what? you literally just justified actual valid reasons to pirate something you know that right?
majority of people that pirate a game wouldn't have bought it even if they couldn't pirate it 😹piracy is thought to be bad since it harms profit but if anything it helps make more profit in most cases since some people who enjoy the pirated game end up buying the real version
same applies for most other online piracy
Skoepdoep2 [#14]i mean i don't think about it when i watch a show for free on some site but for example the big bang theory isn't something that i can watch anywhere else and nobody loses money on it
Fair enough it really depends on the context( whether the company still exists or not), but one of the arguments I see about why people justify pirating is because they think corporations are this evil incarnate, which I have no comments, but then trying to spin it as being a Robin hood is what annoys me.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#15]I'm just saying let's keep the reasoning honest.. ain't no one is thinking about repaying the dev back after they had the money to purchase the game, it's not free marketing either, etc..
But it is free marketing though, as if you enjoy the media that you pirated, you're likely to recommend it to others. I personally recommend Disco Elysium to everyone I know, and this wouldn't have happened if I didn't pirate it
meanie [#16]bro what? you literally just justified actual valid reasons to pirate something you know that right?
It's not, the arguments are too weak..
Free marketing - your friend who pirated the game recommended you the marketing, but why should you buy them when you can just pirate them like your friend did.
Repaying the dev- when you're at that point you're going to focus on living paycheck to paycheck and repaying the dev for what you stole is definitely not on the top of your lists.
Refrainings [#19]But it is free marketing though, as if you enjoy the media that you pirated, you're likely to recommend it to others. I personally recommend Disco Elysium to everyone I know, and this wouldn't have happened if I didn't pirate it
But if they know you got the game from pirating , then in the back of their heads why shouldn't they pirate too.. you got it for free then why shouldn't they..
Marketing only works when people buy your products , and even if let's say that the scenario worked it would be a loss for the company too.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#7]
- The media isn't available anymore ( I live to play old jrpgs like chrono trigger and final fantasy)
- Too expensive ( but my preferences barely coincide with this issue so I think only number 1 that's legit)
Valid reasons to me.
Piracy isnt stealing, the company doesnt lose money or incoming money.
If a product isnt acessible, will create ways to use him, but even with the false product, peoples still are going to buy the OG.
Aayan [#24]imo you should be able to do whatever you want.
with that being said i'll try an pirate as little as possible since i cba to deal with any viruses or shady downloads. plus I really like having all my stuff like games in one place where I can access it on any computer (steam for example)
man if only big pirating had something like steam
uwukitten [#17]majority of people that pirate a game wouldn't have bought it even if they couldn't pirate it 😹piracy is thought to be bad since it harms profit but if anything it helps make more profit in most cases since some people who enjoy the pirated game end up buying the real version
same applies for most other online piracy
Again it's a weak argument, those who actually bought the game will see people who pirate the game and think "why buy the game when I can just pirate it,that way I don't need to spend money"
People who pirate often coincide with people who people who don't have the money to do so. And when you don't have the money to buy the game, I doubt you will buy the game later on
IonlywatchvcjXD [#22]But if they know you got the game from pirating , then in the back of their heads why shouldn't they pirate too.. you got it for free then why shouldn't they..
Marketing only works when people buy your products , and even if let's say that the scenario worked it would be a loss for the company too.
I pirated CP2077 them bought an actual copy later, because I really enjoyed the game and wanted to support the devs. The truth is that people wanting to pirate weren't going to pay anyways, and for some people like me to still buy the game even after pirating is revenue that they wouldn't have gotten normally
Aayan [#24]imo you should be able to do whatever you want.
with that being said i'll try an pirate as little as possible since i cba to deal with any viruses or shady downloads. plus I really like having all my stuff like games in one place where I can access it on any computer (steam for example)
It's one of the issues I had with pirating, bro I got malware because of it lol. Like I said I'm not saying stop pirating , it's just that people who tried to excuse pirating with extravagant reasoning are yapping.
uwukitten [#17]majority of people that pirate a game wouldn't have bought it even if they couldn't pirate it 😹piracy is thought to be bad since it harms profit but if anything it helps make more profit in most cases since some people who enjoy the pirated game end up buying the real version
same applies for most other online piracy
Exactly.
And the company doesnt lose money, they arent stealed (Since the game pasta still with they).
If something is acessible (not just in money, but in facility too) people will buy the OG.
Like me with spotify, Minecraft, Cs, powerpoint, Netflix, etc.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#26]Again it's a weak argument, those who actually bought the game will see people who pirate the game and think "why buy the game when I can just pirate it,that way I don't need to spend money"
People who pirate often coincide with people who people who don't have the money to do so. And when you don't have the money to buy the game, I doubt you will buy the game later on
nah, few people pirate a game because they literally can't buy it, they pirate it cause they'd rather spend their money on something else.
there's also been studies that showcase that there was a correlation between games being pirated and their profits increasing (in %)
https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf
this isn't to say that piracy isn't, on some level, immoral but that's a whole other argument and then we'd have to consider how overpriced some games are, the studios developing them and their relative value etc etc
uwukitten [#30]nah, few people pirate a game because they literally can't buy it, they pirate it cause they'd rather spend their money on something else.
there's also been studies that showcase that there was a correlation between games being pirated and their profits increasing (in %)
https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdfthis isn't to say that piracy isn't, on some level, immoral but that's a whole other argument and then we'd have to consider how overpriced some games are, the studios developing them and their relative value etc etc
Have you read the whole thing or this is the first thing that pops out from Google scholar on one search ? If you've read it tell me the page.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#21]It's not, the arguments are too weak..
Free marketing - your friend who pirated the game recommended you the marketing, but why should you buy them when you can just pirate them like your friend did.
Repaying the dev- when you're at that point you're going to focus on living paycheck to paycheck and repaying the dev for what you stole is definitely not on the top of your lists.
95% of people are scared of pirating due to viruses and shit (and they should be too tbh, if you dont know what you are doing then its a huge risk) so for them just going to steam and buying a game is easier
if people have the means to buy a $500+ pc then you have to think they have the means to buy games as well
IonlywatchvcjXD [#21]It's not, the arguments are too weak..
Free marketing - your friend who pirated the game recommended you the marketing, but why should you buy them when you can just pirate them like your friend did.
Repaying the dev- when you're at that point you're going to focus on living paycheck to paycheck and repaying the dev for what you stole is definitely not on the top of your lists.
The point of pirating is simply that companies can and will take your digital products away from you whenever they want because you simply do not own games anymore. No ownership = no theft. Its pretty simple
PRLV [#33]95% of people are scared of pirating due to viruses and shit (and they should be too tbh, if you dont know what you are doing then its a huge risk) so for them just going to steam and buying a game is easier
if people have the means to buy a $500+ pc then you have to think they have the means to buy games as well
So you're saying the only way companies can stop pirating is to actually insert viruses into pirated files 😂😂..
But really, we're on the " too expensive excuses" zone to I won't argue with that. What I'm trying to say is some people need to get off their high horse thinking they're robin hood or something 😂😂
IonlywatchvcjXD [#32]Have you read the whole thing or this is the first thing that pops out from Google scholar on one search ? If you've read it tell me the page.
I haven't read the whole thing, I've only seen extracts from it on news websites 🗿
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/
you can either check on the news or read the conclusion at the beginning
IonlywatchvcjXD [#26]Again it's a weak argument, those who actually bought the game will see people who pirate the game and think "why buy the game when I can just pirate it,that way I don't need to spend money"
People who pirate often coincide with people who people who don't have the money to do so. And when you don't have the money to buy the game, I doubt you will buy the game later on
Now this is you inventing.
why buy the game when I can just pirate it,that way I don't need to spend money
People allways will want the faster and more acessible way, even more if is the original.
The vast majority of people buy the OG later, like minecraft or spotify.
These people you mentioned, are childs or literally thief mentality, i say mentality, bc even thiefs will buy the OG if is more faster.
And when you don't have the money to buy the game, I doubt you will buy the game later on
Exist hard times and light times, look at Br for example, we are both the country with most piracy, and one of the countries who most buy OG products.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#35]So you're saying the only way companies can stop pirating is to actually insert viruses into pirated files 😂😂..
But really, we're on the " too expensive excuses" zone to I won't argue with that. What I'm trying to say is some people need to get off their high horse thinking they're robin hood or something 😂😂
im saying its not a huge loss for companies as the amount of people who pirate are not that high + sometimes the advertising helps them a lot
Yuniee44 [#34]The point of pirating is simply that companies can and will take your digital products away from you whenever they want because you simply do not own games anymore. No ownership = no theft. Its pretty simple
pirating is never theft, its copyright infringement
Yuniee44 [#34]The point of pirating is simply that companies can and will take your digital products away from you whenever they want because you simply do not own games anymore. No ownership = no theft. Its pretty simple
That would be stupid for the company to do so from a customer relationship viewpoint.
Also if everyone has that kind of mindset ain't nobody except few that have the means to do it will be in this industry anymore because all it takes is just for company to release the file to public and its free game 😂😂
greenshep [#25]man if only big pirating had something like steam
fitgirl repacks is basically that (safe source for getting almost every pirated game)
IonlywatchvcjXD [#40]That would be stupid for the company to do so from a customer relationship viewpoint.
Also if everyone has that kind of mindset ain't nobody except few that have the means to do it will be in this industry anymore because all it takes is just for company to release the file to public and its free game 😂😂
Yeah that defo never happened because of how stupid it is.
Lol.
PRLV [#39]pirating is never theft, its copyright infringement
Yeah but when this fella is talking about justifying pirating he is talking about the pirating isnt theft movement.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#32]Have you read the whole thing or this is the first thing that pops out from Google scholar on one search ? If you've read it tell me the page.
also this isn't to say that piracy is completely moral, since in some cases it does harm profits significantly. the point is that the issue isn't as clear cut as you make it to be
uwukitten [#45]also this isn't to say that piracy is completely moral, since in some cases it does harm profits significantly. the point is that the issue isn't as clear cut as you make it to be
Fair point, in some cases piracy is actually stems from the company itself. But I always find it quite annoying when people try to spin this as being morally correct or something.
uwukitten [#36]I haven't read the whole thing, I've only seen extracts from it on news websites 🗿
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/you can either check on the news or read the conclusion at the beginning
Unfortunately it's only one study, it's not that clear tbh, needs more studies on this.. but if it does increase profit then it's great for the community
Froggy0_0 [#47]i dont care mate i dont want 30 different subscriptions
and fuck you to whoever says dont pirate
Finally, someone who's honest about it..
smthlikeyou11 [#48]i mean technically laws are laws
im not gna say any more
whether u choose to or not thats up to u
I mean I pirate stuff too, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking that I'm some Robin hood 😂
Denjisideals [#50]Nah imma do my own thing
You do you bro, I'm gonna go back and download the rom for ff5 on snes simulator 😂😂
IonlywatchvcjXD [#52]I mean I pirate stuff too, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking that I'm some Robin hood 😂
i never pirated anything but let me say this
stealing from the rich is still stealing
however piracy has some benefits to the gaming community tho so its complicated
Yuniee44 [#34]The point of pirating is simply that companies can and will take your digital products away from you whenever they want because you simply do not own games anymore. No ownership = no theft. Its pretty simple
point is, this is a really shit take.
the lack of the ability to own something does not inherently suggest that theft is justified. can you go rob a car rental shop and still defend yourself saying "you don't provide us with a way to own the car, therefore I'm not stealing"?
ethics of digital ownership aside, you need much more backing to justify pirating than a logically flawed tagline.
smthlikeyou11 [#54]i never pirated anything but let me say this
stealing from the rich is still stealinghowever piracy has some benefits to the gaming community tho so its complicated
No doubt about it piracy has some benefits, and not just the gaming community, anime in the west to my knowledge won't be as mainstream as it is today without pirating..
cristiadu [#60]rich boy talking rich boy things
Read again, at what point did I say people should stop pirating
c4rrotstix [#59]i dont pirate...
BUT if I DID it would only be for tv shows/anime and it would only be so that websites like crunchyroll dont get money because fuck international megacompanies who don't pay their workers fair wages
Real !!!
I agree but I don't think piracy is as bad a practice anymore as it used to be especially for games. I think there's a ton of cases of older games gaining massive cult followings and being revived just because they were made "accessible" by the internet. Why do you think all these companies try to "remaster" like 10-20 year old games still? I'm not saying pirating is good for every single game but I think it's really healthy for game preservation in general.
sooorino [#63]I agree but I don't think piracy is as bad a practice anymore as it used to be especially for games. I think there's a ton of cases of older games gaining massive cult followings and being revived just because they were made "accessible" by the internet. Why do you think all these companies try to "remaster" like 10-20 year old games still? I'm not saying pirating is good for every single game but I think it's really healthy for game preservation in general.
Ok this is a legit and valid take. It's sad to see old games disappear , and I thank piracy for preventing that from happening.
The replies really missed the point. You can give any justification for doing something bad, it's still bad for the affected person/company. If you simply don't care, fair enough.
Pirates just look silly when they begin acting like vigilantes against the big studios. Like, what are these arguments bro: "pirates buy the game after", "pirates only target big studios" (false), "it's free advertisement".
It's like adblock, people block ads because they're annoying, not because the ads are doing something wrong.
MIKKA966 [#68]The replies really missed the point. You can give any justification for doing something bad, it's still bad for the affected person/company. If you simply don't care, fair enough.
Pirates just look silly when they begin acting like vigilantes against the big studios. Like, what are these arguments bro: "pirates buy the game after", "pirates only target big studios" (false), "it's free advertisement".
It's like adblock, people block ads because they're annoying, not because the ads are doing something wrong.
Did your account get banned? Cause I definitely remembered talking to you before 😂
IonlywatchvcjXD [#69]Did your account get banned? Cause I definitely remembered talking to you before 😂
I lost the email for the Twitch account, it was just an alt so I used a free email service that got shut down. 😭
Yeah, we talked about learning Japanese.
MIKKA966 [#70]I lost the email for the Twitch account, it was just an alt so I used a free email service that got shut down. 😭
Yeah, we talked about learning Japanese.
🤦♂️ I feel you bro, it sucks.
Ah yes, no wonder I remembered, that's the first time i actually interacted using japanese ( sloppily 😂)
IonlywatchvcjXD [#65]Ok this is a legit and valid take. It's sad to see old games disappear , and I thank piracy for preventing that from happening.
Same, I love games rn and emulation is a big part of it tbh.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#71]🤦♂️ I feel you bro, it sucks.
Ah yes, no wonder I remembered, that's the first time i actually interacted using japanese ( sloppily 😂)
I've been trying to interact some more in low-viewer Japanese channels. If they understand some English too it's pretty good for practice, of course just treat it like a regular stream instead of a lesson.
edgno1fan2 [#55]point is, this is a really shit take.
the lack of the ability to own something does not inherently suggest that theft is justified. can you go rob a car rental shop and still defend yourself saying "you don't provide us with a way to own the car, therefore I'm not stealing"?
ethics of digital ownership aside, you need much more backing to justify pirating than a logically flawed tagline.
What a strange comparison. If you rob a car rental the car rental loses the car you dingus.
MIKKA966 [#73]I've been trying to interact some more in low-viewer Japanese channels. If they understand some English too it's pretty good for practice, of course just treat it like a regular stream instead of a lesson.
That's a good idea actually, never thought about that, thanks 👍
sooorino [#72]Same, I love games rn and emulation is a big part of it tbh.
Me too, I'm always amazed by what snes and nes games can do, ik we shouldn't judge them by current standards, 1 or 2 mb games that have tens of hours of content is crazy.
ipok6 [#78]what specifically is wrong with piracy? who is harmed and how when i choose to pirate vs simply not consuming the product?
My stance on piracy has been neutral, my problem is the mental gymnastics these people will go in order to justify doing so.
Istg is my wording too hard to understand 🤦♂️? Do I need to make a tldr just for a 2 paragraph text?
IonlywatchvcjXD [#79]My stance on piracy has been neutral, my problem is the mental gymnastics these people will go in order to justify doing so.
Istg is my wording too hard to understand 🤦♂️? Do I need to make a tldr just for a 2 paragraph text?
what are you talking about? you said, and I quote, "it's bad", and "I know it's just wrong". and by definition any action that needs "justifying" is bad. you're not neutral, you think piracy is wrong. fine, but my question is "why"?
ipok6 [#80]what are you talking about? you said, and I quote, "it's bad", and "I know it's just wrong". and by definition any action that needs "justifying" is bad. you're not neutral, you think piracy is wrong. fine, but my question is "why"?
Oops you got me there, fair point.
Because at the end of the day pirating is downloading stuffs without paying, that's stealing and it's wrong.Just because it is abstract or in this case digital doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm not saying I didn't do it, I did a lot too. But I'm not gonna go out of my way saying pirating is free marketing etc, that's bollocks , just say you don't have money or the media/console is no longer available lol.
Yuniee44 [#74]What a strange comparison. If you rob a car rental the car rental loses the car you dingus.
point still stands, tagline is inherently flawed. just because it isn't something physical doesn't mean the company doesn't lose something - in the case of games, they lose a potential customer. the details of whether it is strictly "ownership or not" is irrelevant to whether or not piracy is stealing (it is).
see cadence design systems vs avanti corp for an example of non-physical theft resulting in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
how serious piracy is is a different question - i'd argue its similar to shoplifting from a supermarket (whatever if its from an international megacorp, a lot worse if its your next door friendly grandma, i.e, indie studios).
doesn't change the fact its inherently unethical and therefore the "piracy isn't theft" tagline is a shit take.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#81]Oops you got me there, fair point.
Because at the end of the day pirating is downloading stuffs without paying, that's stealing and it's wrong.Just because it is abstract or in this case digital doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm not saying I didn't do it, I did a lot too. But I'm not gonna go out of my way saying pirating is free marketing etc, that's bollocks , just say you don't have money or the media/console is no longer available lol.
you didn't answer my question. what specifically is wrong with piracy? who is harmed and how when i choose to pirate vs simply not consuming the product?
ok take it as this
some AAA games are 1/4th or more of peoples' salary in some countries, such as mine (colombia), likewise these corpos are getting a shit ton of money anyway, so pirating shouldn't be that much of an issue. what I am against is pirating indie games cause those guys actually need it
ipok6 [#78]what specifically is wrong with piracy? who is harmed and how when i choose to pirate vs simply not consuming the product?
You make a product, then give me a price.
I don't want to pay your price, so I steal your product and even decide re-sell it a cheaper rate to other people for some easy money.
I have done nothing wrong because you still make money, just not from me or everybody else who bought your product from me instead.
Was there any wrong-doing to you in this stream of events?
MIKKA966 [#86]
You make a product, then give me a price.
I don't want to pay your price, so I steal your product and even decide re-sell it a cheaper rate to other people for some easy money.
I have done nothing wrong because you still make money, just not from me or everybody else who bought your product from me instead.
Was there any wrong-doing to you in this stream of events?
yes, because I lost the product that you stole from me.
ipok6 [#84]you didn't answer my question. what specifically is wrong with piracy? who is harmed and how when i choose to pirate vs simply not consuming the product?
I don't get this insistence on who's harmed or not, do we actually have to harm someone just so something to be wrong?
I also don't get the point of your 1st question.
Pirating is specifically wrong because it is just stealing.
I have to say it's company and ultimately it's employees who be harmed.
What's specifically is wrong about
Point A
When you pirate something it will snowball vs when you simply don't buy the product. If you pirate something others will think that they should too instead of wasting money.
Point B
But that's not the case with simply not buying, with not buying you basically said you're broke and the product doesn't suit you and move on. It is easy to move from point B to point A but as long as you don't, no one is harmed.
ipok6 [#87]yes, because I lost the product that you stole from me.
Then that would be the harm caused in piracy.
Though, people that want to defend piracy would argue that you still own the ability to re-create your product, so I haven't really stolen anything at all.
MIKKA966 [#89]Then that would be the harm caused in piracy.
Though, people that want to defend piracy would argue that you still own the ability to re-create your product, so I haven't really stolen anything at all.
that doesn't occur in piracy. when i pirate a file, you still have just as many files as you had before. i'm not even going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace, I'm literally not affecting your stock of copies one iota.
sexocum [#85]ok take it as this
some AAA games are 1/4th or more of peoples' salary in some countries, such as mine (colombia), likewise these corpos are getting a shit ton of money anyway, so pirating shouldn't be that much of an issue. what I am against is pirating indie games cause those guys actually need it
Look, I'm not forbidding pirating etc, and too expensive is a legitimate reason to pirate. But my point here is specifically towards those who have other justifications such as companies are evil , free marketing yadda yadda.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#88]I don't get this insistence on who's harmed or not, do we actually have to harm someone just so something to be wrong?
I also don't get the point of your 1st question.Pirating is specifically wrong because it is just stealing.
I have to say it's company and ultimately it's employees who be harmed.
What's specifically is wrong about
Point A
When you pirate something it will snowball vs when you simply don't buy the product. If you pirate something others will think that they should too instead of wasting money.Point B
But that's not the case with simply not buying, with not buying you basically said you're broke and the product doesn't suit you and move on. It is easy to move from point B to point A but as long as you don't, no one is harmed.
I don't get this insistence on who's harmed or not, do we actually have to harm someone just so something to be wrong?
yes, of course.
Pirating is specifically wrong because it is just stealing.
then what is specifically wrong with stealing?
When you pirate something it will snowball vs when you simply don't buy the product. If you pirate something others will think that they should too instead of wasting money.
so? if pirating isn't wrong, "but there will be more pirating" isn't an argument for why it's wrong.
But that's not the case with simply not buying, with not buying you basically said you're broke and the product doesn't suit you and move on. It is easy to move from point B to point A but as long as you don't, no one is harmed.
what?
edgno1fan2 [#82]point still stands, tagline is inherently flawed. just because it isn't something physical doesn't mean the company doesn't lose something - in the case of games, they lose a potential customer. the details of whether it is strictly "ownership or not" is irrelevant to whether or not piracy is stealing (it is).
see cadence design systems vs avanti corp for an example of non-physical theft resulting in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
how serious piracy is is a different question - i'd argue its similar to shoplifting from a supermarket (whatever if its from an international megacorp, a lot worse if its your next door friendly grandma, i.e, indie studios).
doesn't change the fact its inherently unethical and therefore the "piracy isn't theft" tagline is a shit take.
It makes a whole lot of difference if nothing is actually removed from anyone. Losing a potential sale is not base for a crime, then itd be illegal to just not buy the game… Digital piracy is per legal definition not theft, hence why you will not be tried for theft if you get caught pirating something.
ipok6 [#90]that doesn't occur in piracy. when i pirate a file, you still have just as many files as you had before. i'm not even going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace, I'm literally not affecting your stock of copies one iota.
Yeah, that's what I said in my second sentence.
The pro-piracy argument is: because you own multiple copies of your product and have the ability to duplicate it, there is no harm done to you or any wrong-doing on my side if I choose to take a copy from you and even re-distribute it myself.
My argument would be that there is still wrong-doing done when you choose to take something that isn't free, no matter what it is. Of course, this depends on your own view of morality. If you don't agree that this is wrong, I can't convince you otherwise.
ipok6 [#90]that doesn't occur in piracy. when i pirate a file, you still have just as many files as you had before. i'm not even going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace, I'm literally not affecting your stock of copies one iota.
So you think that just because it is easy to copy, and companies having basically unlimited stocks, means you can steal it? That's Flawed logic buddy
IonlywatchvcjXD [#95]So you think that just because it is easy to copy, and companies having basically unlimited stocks, means you can steal it? That's Flawed logic buddy
i explicitly did not say that, read it again.
ipok6 [#96]i explicitly did not say that, read it again.
when i pirate a file, you still have just as many files as you had before.
.
i'm not even going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace,
MIKKA966 [#94]Yeah, that's what I said in my second sentence.
The pro-piracy argument is: because you own multiple copies of your product and have the ability to duplicate it, there is no harm done to you or any wrong-doing on my side if I choose to take a copy from you and even re-distribute it myself.
My argument would be that there is still wrong-doing done when you choose to take something that isn't free, no matter what it is. Of course, this depends on your own view of morality. If you don't agree that this is wrong, I can't convince you otherwise.
no it isn't. like i literally just said, i'm not deleting one of your many copies, i'm not even deleting one of your many copies that you can freely recreate, i'm not even touching your copies. someone else is just allowing me to make a copy of the copy that they purchased from you. i didn't TAKE a copy from you, in any sense of the word.
your argument sounds like you're admitting that nobody is harmed by piracy. is that correct?
IonlywatchvcjXD [#97]when i pirate a file, you still have just as many files as you had before.
.
i'm not even going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace,
given your flag i'm going to be incredibly charitable and assume English isn't your first language, so I'll point out to you the part you're missing. i said "i'm NOT EVEN going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace". i am NOT doing that.
ipok6 [#99]given your flag i'm going to be incredibly charitable and assume English isn't your first language, so I'll point out to you the part you're missing. i said "i'm NOT EVEN going to your PC and taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace". i am NOT doing that.
Meaning that you can download it through somewhere else through the internet without having to travel physical miles just so you can copy them, do you even understand what you're saying here?
Btw don't mind the flag I'm just repping the flag till ascension ends
ipok6 [#98]no it isn't. like i literally just said, i'm not deleting one of your many copies, i'm not even deleting one of your many copies that you can freely recreate, i'm not even touching your copies. someone else is just allowing me to make a copy of the copy that they purchased from you. i didn't TAKE a copy from you, in any sense of the word.
your argument sounds like you're admitting that nobody is harmed by piracy. is that correct?
Well, if you're looking for objective and observable harm, then it is probably impossible to ever prove you'd have to compare numbers that nobody is tracking.
This would apply to all digital media though, including artists who are always crying about their rights to their artwork.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#100]Meaning that you can download it through somewhere else through the internet without having to travel physical miles just so you can copy them, do you even understand what you're saying here?
Btw don't mind the flag I'm just repping the flag till ascension ends
cool, so it's not your english, you're just braindead, good to know.
i am NOT taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace PERIOD, physically digitally or otherwise. the number of copies of the file that you have is UNAFFECTED by my actions. i never for even a second reduce that number. i could pirate a million copies, pull them all up on my PC at once and jack off to the BSOD that that causes and you would have absolutely zero way of knowing because it wouldn't affect you or your stock in the slightest. copying files could be a painstaking, arduous process and you STILL wouldn't be affected because you DON'T have to copy anything to "replace" what i "stole" because there's nothing to be replaced.
MIKKA966 [#101]Well, if you're looking for objective and observable harm, then it is probably impossible to ever prove you'd have to compare numbers that nobody is tracking.
This would apply to all digital media though, including artists who are always crying about their rights to their artwork.
just any harm.
ipok6 [#98]no it isn't. like i literally just said, i'm not deleting one of your many copies, i'm not even deleting one of your many copies that you can freely recreate, i'm not even touching your copies. someone else is just allowing me to make a copy of the copy that they purchased from you. i didn't TAKE a copy from you, in any sense of the word.
your argument sounds like you're admitting that nobody is harmed by piracy. is that correct?
So that makes both you and your friend wrong?? What are you trying to say here. There's a reason devs or companies put a price tag on each "file" which is just a product. And you're taking them for free? If company know there's billions of people with this kind of mindset no one except few incredibly passionate + have the means to do it, will create games, because according to your argument all it takes is for one guy to buy the game and it's essentially free for everyone else because now he can share the file for free.
Are you trying to argue for the sake of arguing?
ipok6 [#102]cool, so it's not your english, you're just braindead, good to know.
i am NOT taking a copy that you have to CTRL+C CTRL+V to replace PERIOD, physically digitally or otherwise. the number of copies of the file that you have is UNAFFECTED by my actions. i never for even a second reduce that number. i could pirate a million copies, pull them all up on my PC at once and jack off to the BSOD that that causes and you would have absolutely zero way of knowing because it wouldn't affect you or your stock in the slightest. copying files could be a painstaking, arduous process and you STILL wouldn't be affected because you DON'T have to copy anything to "replace" what i "stole" because there's nothing to be replaced.
You know what I think you're braindead too, one of your questions literally asked "what is wrong with stealing?"
Let's just consider this conversation never happened because my brain can't take your stupidity anymore,
ipok6 [#103]just any harm.
I assume you're excluding psychological harm since that's not objective, so it would have to be financial, and there is no research data to prove that pirates harm digital sales of any digital media (since there's no comparison).
Though, I don't think harm is the only metric for doing something wrong (or right). If you can steal somebody elses work, knowing that they don't want you to, are you justified in doing so anyways just because they can duplicate it?
IonlywatchvcjXD [#105]You know what I think you're braindead too, one of your questions literally asked "what is wrong with stealing?"
Let's just consider this conversation never happened because my brain can't take your stupidity anymore,
i know what's wrong with stealing, but evidently you don't, otherwise you'd be able to tell me instead of hiding from that very simple question.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#104]So that makes both you and your friend wrong?? What are you trying to say here. There's a reason devs or companies put a price tag on each "file" which is just a product. And you're taking them for free? If company know there's billions of people with this kind of mindset no one except few incredibly passionate + have the means to do it, will create games, because according to your argument all it takes is for one guy to buy the game and it's essentially free for everyone else because now he can share the file for free.
Are you trying to argue for the sake of arguing?
what i am saying here is that the argument "you took one of their files from them" is faulty.
if companies knew that everyone didn't want to play their game, they wouldn't make the game either. does that mean i'm obligated to play the game?
i'm arguing for the sake of something i believe in, which is that piracy is morally neutral.
Why is this suddenly a very popular thing to "discuss" online recently.
IMO pirating is the same as not voting in an election for its effect, like the big downside people claim piracy has is that you aren't supporting the people who made the game or film or whatever, which is only really true for indie studios as all the talented people who made the game arent earning commission on the game, they are either salaried or most likely just paid for their work and then released as a freelancer. All the proceeds towards the game pretty much all go to the company valuation and the execs/shareholders profits, which you can argue is the reason theyre getting paid in the first place which brings us back to my first point.
Not voting is technically bad for democracy, but there are millions of others who do vote (do buy the game) that your vote (money) is but a drop in the water. Concord being a recent example, imagine if everyone pirated concord instead of buying it. All the devs would have still been paid for their 8 years of work, the game still would have been shut down, the only people at a loss are ubisoft share holders and higher ups.
Another argument is that oh if some people pirate then everyone will pirate, mate, pirating has been around since before you were born yet people still go to the cinema (awful) and spend money renting out movies for the price of a week of food. Its a null argument as there are always gonna be way more people who just spend money without thinking, rendering the pirating is bad for the industry argument irrelevent.
If the majority of people start pirating instead of spending the extortionate prices for everything, then its effectively voting with your money. Big companies would start lowering their profit margins (which they have the full capability to do so), meaning that Dave the ceo of whatever cinema company might not have the luxury of taking a 50M bonus that year in order to cut costs and sell tickets at a price that reflects their value.
I think your whole belief comes off the back of "illegal" = morally wrong, which is just a weak hill to die on
MIKKA966 [#106]I assume you're excluding psychological harm since that's not objective, so it would have to be financial, and there is no research data to prove that pirates harm digital sales of any digital media (since there's no comparison).
Though, I don't think harm is the only metric for doing something wrong (or right). If you can steal somebody elses work, knowing that they don't want you to, are you justified in doing so anyways just because they can duplicate it?
i mean even psychological harm doesn't occur since you never know when someone else has pirated your game.
what other metric would there be? what's another example of something you can do that hurts nobody but is still wrong?
you would not be justified in stealing someone else's work because they lose that piece of their property. they may be able to duplicate it to replace it, but they shouldn't have to. that's not what happens in piracy though, you don't lose any property and you don't have to duplicate anything to replace anything.
ortuh [#109]Why is this suddenly a very popular thing to "discuss" online recently.
IMO pirating is the same as not voting in an election for its effect, like the big downside people claim piracy has is that you aren't supporting the people who made the game or film or whatever, which is only really true for indie studios as all the talented people who made the game arent earning commission on the game, they are either salaried or most likely just paid for their work and then released as a freelancer. All the proceeds towards the game pretty much all go to the company valuation and the execs/shareholders profits, which you can argue is the reason theyre getting paid in the first place which brings us back to my first point.
Not voting is technically bad for democracy, but there are millions of others who do vote (do buy the game) that your vote (money) is but a drop in the water. Concord being a recent example, imagine if everyone pirated concord instead of buying it. All the devs would have still been paid for their 8 years of work, the game still would have been shut down, the only people at a loss are ubisoft share holders and higher ups.
Another argument is that oh if some people pirate then everyone will pirate, mate, pirating has been around since before you were born yet people still go to the cinema (awful) and spend money renting out movies for the price of a week of food. Its a null argument as there are always gonna be way more people who just spend money without thinking, rendering the pirating is bad for the industry argument irrelevent.
If the majority of people start pirating instead of spending the extortionate prices for everything, then its effectively voting with your money. Big companies would start lowering their profit margins (which they have the full capability to do so), meaning that Dave the ceo of whatever cinema company might not have the luxury of taking a 50M bonus that year in order to cut costs and sell tickets at a price that reflects their value.
I think your whole belief comes off the back of "illegal" = morally wrong, which is just a weak hill to die on
It(the thread) was meant to question the justifications of people who pirate stuffs, and 70% of users in this thread either can't read or purposefully ignoring my point, which is just say you're broke and don't need to go out of your way to justify why pirates are cool etc.
A lot of your counter arguments revolve around others are paying anyways, and ultimately it is the CEO and the hgher ups earn those money anyways, but that doesn't make it any less wrong..
But I agree that illegal shouldn't be considered as morally wrong, I never argued in terms of legal factor tho 😅.
Btw have you ever considered that company might end up cutting employee's paychecks all the way just so it touches bare minimum required if they had to cut profit margin?
IonlywatchvcjXD [#111]It(the thread) was meant to question the justifications of people who pirate stuffs, and 70% of users in this thread either can't read or purposefully ignoring my point, which is just say you're broke and don't need to go out of your way to justify why pirates are cool etc.
A lot of your counter arguments revolve around others are paying anyways, and ultimately it is the CEO and the hgher ups earn those money anyways, but that doesn't make it any less wrong..
But I agree that illegal shouldn't be considered as morally wrong, I never argued in terms of legal factor tho 😅.
Btw have you ever considered that company might end up cutting employee's paychecks all the way just so it touches bare minimum required if they had to cut profit margin?
if theyre cutting the paychecks of employees then people arent gonna work for them, their highest talent will be paid more elsewhere so theyre just gonna produce slop, and cutting paychecks based on game selling results would defo be illegal and breach whatever contract they signed
also idk why it matters if youre broke or not, if you have money theres no necessity for you to spend it on overpriced shit, and if youre broke then it doesnt mean you shouldnt spend money on things you like
idk if people have mentioned the ultrakill dev's stance on piracy, or perhaps gabe newells famous piracy quote, but both of these people are on two sides of the game dev world yet both understand the necessity to pirate.
Culture shouldn't exist to only those who can afford it
Me personally I don't pirate games, steam has everything I need and the frequent sales means any purchase is justifiable. I do however pirate anime as crunchyroll being the western monopoly, alter translations to suit a US market instead of being accurate, censor a lot of shit, dont pay animators shit, outdated and shit website, remove comments instead of paying people to moderate them, missing loads of shows I want to watch etc.
I also pirate shows that arent on prime/netflix as I can't be expected to pay upwards of £100 a month to buy every single shitty streaming platform just to watch a single show/film.
edit: for another example, one of my favourite shows of all time, Sakamichi No Apollon I actually cant watch it legally anywhere in the UK, so im supposed to just never watch a show that had a profound impact on me... because piracy bad... "stealing bad" (who am I stealing from)
Yuniee44 [#93]It makes a whole lot of difference if nothing is actually removed from anyone. Losing a potential sale is not base for a crime, then itd be illegal to just not buy the game… Digital piracy is per legal definition not theft, hence why you will not be tried for theft if you get caught pirating something.
piracy is a form of copyright infringement, which is, in spirit, theft of intellectual property.
again, see the case of cadence design systems vs avanti corp - CDS didn't physically "lose" anything, but theres a good reason why avanti corp doesn't exist anymore today - copyright infringement is, in ethical spirit, theft.
i think the difference between piracy and choosing to not purchase and consume a product should be intuitively clear, but if you insist on pedantic definition, then the fundamental difference lies in accessing premium products without paying the associated price. what is lost isn't the 'potential sale' per se, but the development time and costs associated per product consumed.
think about it inductively. is it ethical for EVERYBODY to pirate a product? the developers and the studio earn zero revenue for their development effort, so clearly not. so at what point does it become acceptable? when only 50% of the playerbase pirates? 20%? and when it does, what makes it okay for the n% of the playerbase to pirate but not okay for the 100-n% of the playerbase to do the same?
IonlywatchvcjXD [#75]That's a good idea actually, never thought about that, thanks 👍
You can also use tiktok live, almost all the lives I've gotten are in japanese recently and more likely than not, you're going to be the only one saying anything meaningful since everyone else is just saying かわいい or asking how to learn japanese
catNmouse [#116]why does this have -44 downvotes wtf
Because people cannot read, I never said people should stop pirating but somehow people think I said that.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#117]Because people cannot read, I never said people should stop pirating but somehow people think I said that.
It’s legit just an honest question lmao
catNmouse [#118]It’s legit just an honest question lmao
Is this how it feels to be 1/100 of nexusnomad 😭
IonlywatchvcjXD [#119]Is this how it feels to be 1/100 of nexusnomad 😭
you aren’t even close to that dw LMAO
Yuniee44 [#34]The point of pirating is simply that companies can and will take your digital products away from you whenever they want because you simply do not own games anymore. No ownership = no theft. Its pretty simple
I paid 20$ for my minecraft account in like 2011 and Mojang deleted my account because Micro$$oft forced people to migrate to microsoft accounts which I didnt see
Fuck anyone who asslicks big companies, pirate whatever tf you want
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