GOAT debate | VLR.gg

#1

FireDJVA

I feel like we have one of these everyday so I’m gonna give my thoughts on it

For me it’s between TenZ, Derke, Aspas, and ForsakeN

TenZ goes in this debate because he is mechanically one of the best players despite what people say about him falling off and him getting worse. In reality if you look at it, TenZ won the very first international in Reykjavik, then 2 years later after so many mental killers (ex. His fiancé getting cancer) he comes back on SMOKES and wins another one with an entirely new team. That shouldn’t be ignored regardless of how much you hate SEN.

Derke is up there because he is consistently one of the best players in the world every year, his duelist is matched by very few and he’s been consistently amazing every year since 2021 and he is so often overlooked because of other players being incredibly flashy but Derke is a consistency demon and I think his ability to do that at such a high level makes him one of the best for sure.

Aspas is too obvious because he is one of the most flashy aim demons there is and literally nobody can argue that he’s not insane at the game.

Forsaken is my hot take, because honestly he is one of the most skilled players to ever play and his ability to frag at such a high level across multiple roles and so many years just never gets old.

Lmk what you guys think

#2

ct_fd_str

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valid
chronicle maybe?

#3

amovie

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TenZ? lol
f0rsaken? lol

Replace those two with Chronicle, Less, or Demon1 and I might take you seriously

#8

ct_fd_str

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AAAAAAAHAHAHA DEMON1 KEKE WHO ARE YOU

#13

amovie

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hey this is no laughing matter!!!

#14

GodAwfulGod

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Demon1 had one good year and then he fell off

#19

amovie

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ruined by Chet and a bad igl isn’t falling off! Greatest peak of all time 🏆

#32

GodAwfulGod

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I do agree that Chet ruined him with how he wanted him to basically play as a sacrifice but even still I don't think you can call him a goat candidate because he hasn't played enough in tier 1 to really say he's the best yet

#37

amovie

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:(

#17

FireDJVA

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Demon1 is absolutely not up there

chronicle is a good argument

Less I don’t see at all

#20

amovie

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Respectfully how do you put f0rsaken and tenz up there but you don’t see Less being there at all lol

#23

wololo___

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l0ss

#31

FireDJVA

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Less fell off hard going into this year although his 2022 performance was certainly impressive asf
This is a personal thing so I expect other ppl to have problems w it

#36

amovie

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2023 was his best year though?

#38

FireDJVA

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Idk how that’s relevant to what I daid

#44

amovie

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you said his 2022 was impressive, but 2023 was his best year

#46

FireDJVA

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Okay so 2023 was impressive too still what I said goes

#47

ct_fd_str

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how was 2023 a better year for less when he literally won champs in 2022?

#28

NioMS

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Didn't Less have like 200 kills more than Aspas at champs while both playing for the same team?

#70

NADUS

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no, he have like 50-100 kills less than aspas, after champs prob will have 300-400 kills less

#39

envyz

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less no demon1 no.

#43

SynCeD09

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chronicle ok valid but demon1? yea he was great last year but f0rsaken and aspas have way more factor as to way their so good

#68

Flick0

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Less>Tenz
Riens>Forsaken

#4

Kirya

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Bro sneaked in fraudsaken smh

#7

FireDJVA

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I said he was my hot take, although I think he’s a mentality player he’s insanely good and I don’t think he should be doubted

#25

Kirya

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He should be doubted if he has below 1 rating in 90% of international events that he attended
"GOAT" is too much for him

#33

FireDJVA

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Idk I think within that system and his agent pool he was pretty good but I can be wrong

Hot takes are hot takes

#35

Kirya

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Diffference between best of the best and pretty good is big
He has no achievements or crazy stats to back it up

#27

K4ziuHa

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He's been horrendous recently
Chron easily diffs him
also forgot to mention ardiss

#5

sergueiessenine

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tenz has no business being on there as the guy who missed out on intls for 2 years straight (he was too ass to even qual)

#9

FireDJVA

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This is retarded him missing out on intls isn’t solely on him I would argue it’s entirely team based

#16

sergueiessenine

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guy watchpartying events cant be the goat. the goats are the players he's watching from home

#21

FireDJVA

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You have some mental illness
Just because he didn’t make internationals for two years takes him out that’s almost entirely a team thing which you’re ignoring cuz you’re special

#30

sergueiessenine

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me when the "goat" is some guy with one random good perf back in 2021 in farmers league against crazy racoons and team vikings who then failed to qual to a single intl for 2 straight years 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔

#51

flinskyy

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Not even his personal stats were good tho

#58

sergueiessenine

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he was looking awful but all good he had one great performance back in 31 BC against fucking mistic and team viking

#60

FireDJVA

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Drx took the bus home quiet down

#63

flinskyy

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Nice way to give ur counter point

#65

sergueiessenine

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really got me there

#67

LuffyVlr

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Then why didn't you include Less in there?

#41

envyz

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missed out on intls for 2 years and still got a trophy before drx who made every int for the past 2 years minus Madrid and Shanghai

#49

sergueiessenine

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yep. ill take that over my "goat" being too inconsistent to qual half the time

#50

envyz

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Faker of Valorant lol, just because Faker had a low in his career doesn't mean he's shit.

#52

flinskyy

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Faker never had a low.

#57

envyz

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never a crazy low like TenZ did but did lose 6 events in a row which for faker is considered a low

#53

sergueiessenine

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sen fans are now comparing tenz to faker 💔💔💔💔💔😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

#59

envyz

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never said TenZ had Faker level impact I'm saying Faker has had lows in his career similar to 99% of Valorant Players

#6

r3verie_

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tenz might be in the debate but forsaken sure isnt

#10

gg321

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val will never have a clear goat,nobody is clearly mechanically superior,val is a utility first aim second game as of now

#11

Selfim

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For me its these 5 names
From one to five

Aspas Chronicle TenZ Derke MaKo

#12

FireDJVA

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I respect that heavy

#56

AltonBu02

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I actually fuck with this. Sacy could make an argument for this list tho.

#15

NioMS

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Mako > Tenz

Chronicle >>>>>>>> forsaken

#24

Divine_Thunder

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mako isnt better than tenz 💀.

#18

AltonBu02

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Hot take: winning is way more of a team's achievement and has way less impact when talking about how great an individual player is. Not saying it shouldn't have impact on an individual player's standings at all, but it shouldn't be one of the main factors without heavy context imo. That being said, I consider Mako, Sacy, Chronicle, Derke, Aspas, Tenz, and F0rsaken to be the greatest players of all time at the moment. Not in order obviously.

#22

BoF7ooM

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Few from each region
EMEA- Chronicle, Derke
Americas- Aspas, Less (to an extent)
SHITPAC- Mako (fraudsaken isnt even close)

#26

FireDJVA

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I’m talking mechanically and your list has some brain damage in it

#29

Twentytwo

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Chronicle is the goat

#34

NRGSUPERFAN

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dont think tenz is even in the top 10. missed multiple internationals, had 2 mediocre years and last year looked like the worst duelist in americas franchising. hes good but not in the goat conversation. even yay has a better claim than tenz and hes been irrelevant for 2 years.

forsaken has been 1 of the best pacific players but mako is levels ahead imo.

u missed by not putting chronicle on the list lol

#40

AltonBu02

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Tenz is still top 5, but he's like number 5 for me assuming he doesn't win champs. As you said, him being inconsistent holds him back from being the goat imo.

#48

NRGSUPERFAN

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i think if sen wins champs sacy and zekken will be ahead of him in the goat debate, especially with how sacy and zekken are performing rn, unless tenz goes nuclear against heretics and takes them to the final.

#54

AltonBu02

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Sacy, there is an argument, but Zekken no. While he did play tier 1 on xset, they were known for being the fourth place team, so I wouldn't really say Zekken had any success until this year. While Tenz did disappear for a while, he was still good in multiple different years and absolutely carried Sen in that 2021 masters run. I would give Zekken more time before placing him ahead of Tenz in the greatest players of all time debate. Also, one game isn't enough to determine whether Tenz > Zekken or Zekken > Tenz.

#42

FireDJVA

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I think whoever wins champs this year has a really big claim at it
Aspas is miles ahead but I think he’s certainly ahead of the rest if he becomes 2x champ

#45

Chow1E

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if sen win sacy is the goat

#61

Sonatine

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If SEN wins, Sacy, TenZ and Chronicle are the GOATs.

#55

EMEAstan

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chronicle is clear of f0rskin

#62

I_LOVE_LESS

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its between Less and aspas

#64

Sonatine

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aspas, Leo, Chronicle, Sacy, TenZ, f0rsakeN

#66

GambleNats

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Chronicle - 3 trophies, best in the world multiple times
Yay - most dominant anyone has been in a full year in all of val
Aspas - consistently a top player
TenZ - most famous and well known player
Derke?
Forsaken?

#69

abhaudk

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Chron>>>>100x F0rsaken

F0rsaken is overrated asf
He only performs with other roles at high levels against DFM or shit teams
While Chron do it against best teams itw

#71

SovereignSwordEnjoyer

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s1mple

#72

Yuh_aye

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The real answer is that the game is too new and it's way too early to declare a decisive goat (although if Lev wins it will be Aspas, if SEN wins it will be TenZ)

But if I had to choose one, I'm going with Less. A champion with literally unparalleled dominance in his role. A walking matchup problem. Has hard gapped basically everyone that has ever been considered a top player in senti.

1-0 Nats
https://www.vlr.gg/247103/team-liquid-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-group-stage-elim-d 1.43 vs 0.70
1-0 Suygetsu
https://www.vlr.gg/247104/natus-vincere-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-group-stage-decider-d 1.23 vs 0.96
3-0 Alfajer
https://www.vlr.gg/167393/loud-vs-fnatic-champions-tour-2023-lock-in-s-o-paulo-gf 1.20 vs 0.97
https://www.vlr.gg/248270/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubqf 1.23 vs 1.06
https://www.vlr.gg/248282/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-lr3 1.14 vs 0.80
1-0 Meteor
https://www.vlr.gg/312766/gen-g-vs-loud-champions-tour-2024-masters-madrid-swiss-stage-r1 1.26 vs 0.91

Just take a second and think about how good alfajer is, and how much better Less was every time. Unbelievable. Funnily enough, the only top senti to ever really get the better of him was Johnqt, so if SEN wins champs they may truly be the GOATS.

#73

matarab16

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I'd put nAts up there, unfortunately he had the most ass team this year and couldn't do shit
The day he gets a Gambit like team will be great