Reduce number of Partner team ?

#1

Anguibok

Hi vlr, 2 weeks ago I talked about half of that tweet and allowing tier 2 in inter, so now it's time to analysis the idea of reducing the number of partner team and augment the number of ascention team, it's a really important and underated subject, that will shape vvalorant future, and clothe or open new market for Valorant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpyWgFcU8Ls

tldw ; I'm very mixed about this

This would solve the issue to having a team that end 2nd in champions and still get relegated
Would work in China and Americas
Nee a regulation (Not more than 3 ascention team form the same T2 )
May kill some APAC market if they loose their T1 team (Or may force APAC to split in 2)
I really, really want to debat about this subject, do you want 6 ascention team and 6 partenered team ?

#2

SurroundedDon

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yap city

#34

Anguibok

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Nyan city

#3

Frogger0_0

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Anguibok

#4

CubeEnjoyer

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I like it because n0ngshit are finally gonna get relegated

#14

Amexdxyz

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Team skibidi flair

#32

NebularCarina

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Throw Squad flair asw

#52

31Raven

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glue esports flair

#54

NebularCarina

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did not say "glü esports", opinion rejected

#57

31Raven

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😭 i dont have the right kb for that man

found it
ü

#17

Denjisideals

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Buddy the best Philipino team this year is not even from the Philippines
You wanna talk about that first?

#47

catNmouse

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ain’t team secret european org?

#58

Anguibok

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India have so mush potential on the long run, if only GE would accept to bomb out the first years T.T

#18

FiredSkull

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0/8

#22

Anguibok

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Thats the contrary, more Ascention team mean it's gonna be easier for them the maintain.

#5

NRGSUPERFAN

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dont think reducing the slots its the way to go having it half open and half franchised. all i want to see is 12 or 10 teams and 1 relegation for every region

#23

Anguibok

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So you want to keep the 10/2 ?

#6

delighted

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can't APAC just split? Instead of 1 large asf and unbalanced region, how about get 2 big but balanced regions?

APAC North: KR, JP, Central Asia, TW
APAC South: SEA, SA, OCE

ez fix

#8

GambleNats

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Losing t1/drx/geng and or zeta/dfm doesnt seem very good for viewership

#9

delighted

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APAC North will be T1, DRX, GEN, ZETA, DFM, and any other orgs from Central Asia and TW

#16

IonlywatchvcjXD

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I still don't see how this will help "APAC South"

#25

Anguibok

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What would be the problem for APAC south ? Not enough player ?

#26

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Less viewership obviously.

#33

Anguibok

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Not fully sure of that, SEA and India are sush huge market in expansion, I'm kinda afraid we loose viewer if Korea try to make suffocate them by taking almost every champions places. In 2031 I see no way sush a big region would still be in one with how Indonesia and India are expanding...

It's kinda a fun thing that happened in LoL when they make Taiwan and SEA fusing. Taiwan has the player, and SEA has the hype and the viewer, but the hype was killed by the fact Taiwan player just stomped SEA (Because they were too many TW team in the league)

#19

PizzaPie

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Why does it look like APAC South would literally just keep getting farmed in internationals with the lack of competition they have in their own matches

#28

Anguibok

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It's really hard to say, sure, that would be the weakest league, and less competition may mean to get farm (Counterargument PRX prime where when SEA where a region all alone), but also, having only KR team that represent you in inter even could also really damage the competitivity of the region on the long term

Also, we have to keep in mind than India and Indonesia are 2 booming market that will grow every year, (And Valorant seems to become huge in KR), so at some point I think we will have no choice to split in 2. maybe 2027 is too early, but for 2031 that may be an obligation.

But yeah for the moment, if you take the premier data, you have 9k5 team for Americas, EMEA, and KR+JP+OCE, but only 3k5 for SA+SEA, a solution could be to add CIS to this league, I suppose this will depend if they are still geopolitical reason between Russia and EMEA, if it's become hard for Russian to get VISA maybe it would be better to them somewhere else (But if thats not the case CIS is historically better in EMEA)

#51

delighted

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"lack of competition"

the Thai teams will farm each other, more Indo vs MY, Indo vs PH, Indo vs SG, Indo vs Vietnam matches (that will be awesome viewership wise)

more SEA streamers watchparties (big boost for viewership)

potential for South Asia and OCE to be on the same level as the SEA teams

#20

Warlordwibz

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Masters 1: 10 teams (4 pacific. 2 CN. 2 EMEA, 2 Americas)
Masters 2: 15 teams (6 Pacific, 3 CN, 3 EMEA, 3 Americas)
Champs: 20 teams (8 Pacific, 4 CN, 4 EMEA, 4 Americas)

The westerners gonna winge like crazy that asia got so many spots at internationals. Good Idea, I like it.

#21

delighted

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ty bro, appreciate it

#55

Vaaero

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To appease the westerners you could split ameri as in two and have 12/18/24

#24

Anguibok

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Thats basically one point I talk about in the video (APAC north + OCE is just called Pacific, and Apac South is called Asia)
I prefer put Oceania with Korea, because Oceania need 1 franchise slot, and doesn't bring a huge playerpool, while KR+JP doesnt need more franchised team and they are an open spot for an Oceanian team (It's also better for timezone)

Central Asia, beside Mongolia need probably to stay in CIS especially for ping reason, but I agree Mongolia can stay with Pacific region (But may not be big enough to give a franchised spot to them), while Taiwan is in a weird situation where Wolves is technically a HKTW partner team

#7

Hades_Loves_Rb

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imo should be structred like the permier leauge

#10

xineFso

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Step 1 : delete 2g furia koi
Step 2 : delete china league and deport EDG to pacific
what we gain : increasing competitiveness , more slot for each region for international events

#12

KClaw

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Even if step 1 works , cn brings a whole lot of numbers in their league as well as internationally, killing majority of their teams indicates to fans that they don't care abt cn teams or region much thus irritating the big cn fanbase and the more slot in internationals is hard as u got to remember riot has to pay for all these people to come to the region and they want to make big ass profits through such events and not some pennies

#31

eLxR

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true

#11

KClaw

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Bro there's no shot , a team ends with 2nd at champs will end up relegated, 6-6 figure isn't fixed, maybe they do 8-4 or 9-3 who knows , matter of fact is they want to have a bigger and more open system to the newer teams to join at the same time make the franchise teams be concerned if their spot so that teams like furia will actually try to build. A good team and not just relax out by putting a shit roster while the better teams get rewarded, and helps to get other orgs trying to get into valo t1 a chance for example in EMEA they have a lot of fucking sub regions like france, italy, spain, mena , etc etc and every region has like 5-6 teams in them so basically a whole shit of competition for a singular spot, not a lot of teams will be willing to invest then however u have 4 ascension slots , suddenly more people see the upsides of investment

#13

xineFso

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ty for ur precious opinion but i aint reading allat

#15

Invic_Deep

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9-3, 8-4 won't help not enough incentive has to be 6-6 ideally

#29

Anguibok

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"Bro there's no shot , a team ends with 2nd at champs will end up relegated" It won't happen, but you get the idea, a situation where we have G2 and another American team coming from ascension doing both top 8 sounds fully possible.

I'm not fully sure of what are you other point, can you rephrase it please ? ^^

#27

johnqtgoat

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i miss pre-franchise valorant

#30

eLxR

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We simply want more competition

#35

Biostar

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More games, more cost
More teams, more fucking money
More leagues, more fucking insane motherfucking shitty costs.

Did you know that all Riot venues except LA Arena (Riot Arena Berlin, LOL Park, Sangam Coliseum) are leased?
NA and EMEA play midweek games with no spectators. they share the arena with League because those only have one main hall. Wow, the stadium must be really big, right? Fuck. It's 300 and 200 seats.

Look at the recent cost-cutting trend in League esports: they experimented with a “small enough” esports scene with Valo and then ruthlessly cut it down to size.

You're talking about doing the opposite. The likelihood of Riot doing it is the same as entropy of universe reducing itself.

#36

Anguibok

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What ? Did you watch the video ? Reducing number of partner team allow to have more ascention team. If they are a reduction we would still be at 12 teams in each region, same number of games.

#37

Biostar

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About the APAC split.

On franchising, I think the best approach is status quo. If they cut even one team, there is a 100.0% chance it will not be an east asian team.
But it would be the same with four teams, which would be pretty bad.

#38

Anguibok

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If APAC go from 10-2 to 6-6, without splitting in 2, no choice at least 1 east asian team will be cut out right ?

Split seems the only way to reduce number of partner team everywhere without loosing any market in APAC

#39

Biostar

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Why do you take regional distribution for granted when discussing this? Riot is not going to do that. Your 'no choice' will be a strong choice.

If there is a world where they split the league, that universe will collapse and time will go backwards.

#40

Anguibok

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"Why do you take regional distribution for granted when discussing this? Riot is not going to do that. Your 'no choice' will be a strong choice."
I don't understand your point, you think if we go 6-6 we will have 3KR team, 2JP team and 1 SEA team ? Or everyone will blend together ?

"If there is a world where they split the league, that universe will collapse and time will go backwards."
Looking at the data Korea could be enough big to have a league all alone to be fair, and as you says, we cant remove a lot of East-Asian teams

#41

Biostar

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Yeah, It is what you say it is.
Considering this issue, before APAC, imagine how many of the North American giants Riot would give up. 0. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in APAC?

I don't think that would be good, which is why I'm arguing for the status quo. LCQ is at least okay.

#45

Anguibok

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" Considering this issue, before APAC, imagine how many of the North American giants Riot would give up. 0. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in APAC?"
Well if Riot decide to reduce the number of franchising team and augment the number of ascention team, that will be the case for everyone, if we go to 6-6, we would have probably 3 or 4 NA team in franchise, so at least one less, the dropped team would become ascension team. If that happen it would probably be the same for Korea, EG would become a ascension team, and probably same for DRX (And either ZETA or DFM). But I can understand you prefer staying on the 10-2 model, that to me, is the model that guaranty the best stability.

What is making you afraid about splitting APAC in 2 ?

#49

Biostar

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Demand that the company that plays two esports in one stadium with only 12 games per team per year to reduce costs : establish a huge Riot branch in Thailand, lease a new arena, hire bunch of staffs, and relocate the teams that found a permanent base camp(dude, even that scumbag org GE spent over $2 million on it.) in SK. It's not something I'm afraid of, it's just not going to happen.

In LoL esports, Hong Kong/Taiwan/Vietnam/Japan/OCE were combined this year, and the whole league consist of just eight teams.

#53

Anguibok

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The fact it's happening or not depend of a lot of factor, if Korean val become big, Riot might see a way to earn more money, so hard to guess, even if I admit I wouldn't bet on APAC going to split in 2027, but in 2031 it's not off the table I think

#42

washedradiant

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no riot want money

#44

Anguibok

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Sounds a good argument ! But can you elaborate ?
Why do you think having more ascension team and less franchised team would make them loose money ? ^^

#48

washedradiant

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bcs partnered teams has more long term revenue than ascension teams and if theres more ascension and less franchise they can lose stable sponsors. if ascension teams only stay for 2 years theres lots of limitations for big sponsorships to continue. if its 6 franchise teams and 6 ascension sure it probably will be more competitive but riot will risk potential earnings and also people tend to like and watch teams with legacys which is less liikely for ascension teams and therefore have less viewership too

#43

H3ENnZ

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i like watching shit teams

#46

vctscrims

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idea:

4 guest slots, 8 partner teams

this would require only 2 teams to be kicked

EMEA:
GX
koi/navi?

PACIFIC:
between ge, rrq and zeta

CN
JDG
AG

Americas:
EG or C9
MIBR maybe, but they did invest alot recently

#50

Effluxi

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Following this model, which I think is most reasonable atm: Koi will stick for number reasons. If MIBR does well this year, which looks very likely, Furia may drop instead for having a consistently bad performance. Something similar can be said for GE vs RRQ and Zeta.

#56

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Funny you put reconsidered MIBR because they "invested a lot", while you consider Zeta to be out. Zeta is willing to put in more money than DFM ever will and that alone is enough to put them out of the equation.