Neon, Fortnite Aim Assist, and History

#1

Yuh_aye

TLDR : Neon run-n-gun is just like fortnite aim-assist / L2 spam

Now's a great time to talk about Neon and why she's OP, terrible for the game, and a crutch for bad players to play above their level.

In many ways it mirrors Fortnite's controller aim assist, before it was eventually nerfed.

It encourages a braindead playstyle

In fortnite every controller player would just instantly jump in your box (most of the time without even tagging you prior) with no fear of losing that aim duel because they knew they had mini-aimbot and would 200-0 you in a second. In valorant, it's non-stop run and gun, as well as being able to jump around in the open with next to no fear of dying because they know there is no hitscan tracking.

There is no way for anybody not abusing it to counter it

In fortnite, you get instabeamed by an inhuman shot (because player input wasn't what was tracking you), or they just jump in your box and the fight is already decided at that point. In valorant, as long as you are above diamond, there is nothing you can do to stop the run-n-gun/judge-in-your-face nonsense. Cypher is not a counter at all - the best cypher map (Sunset) is also a top neon map.

It lets terrible players play way above their level

It's obvious for fortnite, random ps4 shitters were owning to pros during competitive events that they were full tryharding in (Cash Cups, etc). In valorant it is just as true and obvious. For the vast majority of players, Neon is a crutch. I personally know a silver 1 who fried in a dia-asc avg custom by running it down with a spectre/judge every single round.
That doesnt mean that the top neon players (KangKang, Aspas, Jawgemo, Zekken, Sayf, etc) aren't good. The problem is when shitters who are not good play insane because they can abuse the broken agent. It was the same in fortnite. Unkown, Reet, Deyy, and Mero being insane was not why aim assist was broken, the problem is that the shitters were when they shouldn't have been.

The last point can give us a historical view of how/when Neon might eventually get nerfed. In fortnite, Aim assist divided the community. The Keyboard players swore (correctly) that it was OP. The controller players (who had a vested interest) tried to pretend it wasn't no matter how ridiculous it obviously was. But when did aim assist get nerfed? When the good controller players started calling it out. The good controller players started getting shit on and outplaced by braindead boxjumpers whom they knew they were better than. And that's how Neon will get nerfed, when the actually good duelists start calling out the crutches for what they are, even if it means they can't abuse it themselves.

#2

ohptic

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what does this mean in overwatch terms?

#17

trikecycle

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Phara is a problem in low ranks and on console because nobody can truly punish her due to the worse level of aim. Playing phara at a low level grants an unbalanced level of value in low ranks and allows these poor players to play way above their skill level, and it isn’t fun for the opponents to deal with either. This creates a brain dead game where one team is forced into playing double hitscan as nobody is talented enough in that rank to solo counter the phara, even if she is a bad player

#3

elament

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what does this mean for C9's legacy

#5

Yuh_aye

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Idk what this post has to do with it, but c9 could actually be a really good team next year if they keep making the right moves. Rossy is a great pick up

#4

bees

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L take. Neon doesn't need nerfs and fortnite is a terrible comparison. Just like with every duelist, you put yourself and the team in positions to counter her utility with your own. And Raze can do the same run and gun judge shit while flying over trips and having useful destructive utility.

Your anecdote of "silver player fries in dia/asc lobbies" is not only dubious but also the type of phenomenon that can happen with any ranked gimmicks like grim walls, aggro omen TPs, Yoru tech, etc.

#6

Yuh_aye

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I'm glad you mentioned raze

Here's a relevant 5 sentence post : https://www.vlr.gg/402114/rate-my-idea

If you think a silver 1 is gonna be able to fry in a high diamond lobby on sage, omen, and FUCKING YORU, you are delusional.

#8

diswaco

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did they not just say that the entire premise of a silver 1 frying high diamond lobbies was dubious? average vlr reading comprehension

#9

Yuh_aye

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The premise is not dubious, it actually happened. I was in the lobby when it happened. I've told the story in the past:

https://www.vlr.gg/401952/neon-is-broken

#10 for the story
#14 I posted the actual tracker for the game it happened (then edited so weirdos on vlr don't harass suzy)

#16

diswaco

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basic statistics - you can't extrapolate the results of one game to the population

#22

Yuh_aye

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Good thing it was an anecdote, not a statistical argument

#18

bees

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Neon doesn't recharge slide every 4-6 seconds. What are you on about
Accuracy while flying is a completely different thing than accuracy while grounded
It's supposed to be disadvantageous to stare at a choke while out in the open. A Phoenix flash would've sat him down too, but who plays Phoenix?
It's extremely hard even from the Raze/Neon's perspective to acquire a target that quickly, and doesn't happen consistently. It's like when you hit a flick onto an angle you're not looking at. It's partly "luck," in a sense, because you're flicking toward the general proximity of someone's head position. You could find plenty of clips of a raze/neon whiffing their first accurate shot and getting killed by phantom spray.

#21

Prasinos

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Raze need more aim than Neon to be honest.
And most Neons use judge bc they spam the two dash.

But something the OP doesnt metioned, that its make Neon braindead, its the removal of
the lost of speed when sidewalking.
2 dash? Fine, but the no punishement when u bunyhope with Neon in the wrong way, its what makes this char braindead.
In the past, people trained Neon move, like traning Raze fly, but now, a straight up gold can unlock her and do the most atrossius moves ever, bc do not have punish for wrong play, has 2 dashs, and infinite estamina.

#24

Yuh_aye

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neon bar is constantly recharging when not in use, unlike both jett and raze's movement util, that was the point of that comment, not the specifics of 4-6 seconds
it's not different at all except one is higher, its actually as good a comparison as any that ever existed, since the fundamental topic we're discussing is accuracy during movement (run-n-gun)
using a well timed piece of util (such as a flash) to win a duel != this bullshit, which is not a lucky moment (like jaws kill), but intended game design
its really not that hard especially with a phantom/spectre, let alone a judge, and its definitely not harder than it is to punish it

#7

DuD5K1S

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Congrats! or, sorry to hear that?

#10

justo

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read the first line, all im hearing is whining. just shoot the neon lol

#12

Yuh_aye

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drop your tracker

#11

catNmouse

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I’ll give u an A+ on this, great thesis statement man

#13

Yuh_aye

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ty

#14

sad_gambit_fan

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bro aint no way u comparing neon movement to legal aimbot

its very clear epic games have VERY DIFFERENT philosophies on what competitive gaming / esports is ,
they have the "all should have equal chance regardless of skill" mentality

also epic games notoriously known for not caring about what pros want and actively making the game random to give worse players a chance

#25

Yuh_aye

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fortnite is dogshit as an esport for many reasons, and I agree with basically everything you said.

But there is a huge parallel between the aim-assist debacle in fortnite and what Neon is today

#15

tserc

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Bro hates Neon that much

The games u lost are living rent free in ur head then. That's not a great mentality yuh-aye. I expected better from you.

I'm not calling u out or anything, it's just that Neon CAN be countered, not every Neon I was up against dropped 20+ kills

#19

trikecycle

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The only thing that needs a hit is how fast you run sideways during the ult cause that’s kind of absurd but honestly I’m happy with neon as the best dive duelist after years of raze and jett

#23

Prasinos

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Its the fast sidewalk in generall, Riot removed the speed lost when u turn with Neon.
2 dash is fine, accuracy sliding i can accept (Its hard).
But no punishment for wrong movement its unacceptable

Even Raze lose speed if she flies wrong, why Neon doesnt?

#26

tipthetim

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What do you mean by wrong movement for neon?

#27

Prasinos

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You know when u buny hope, you need to learn how to properly turn, bc if you do not do the right movement, you lose speed, and this is a wrong movement.

Wrong move lose speed, but pressing D after spamming A, makes you lose ALL the speed.
But isnt like this for Neon anymore, she can bunyhope or crouch hope or whatever shit she wants, she will not lose speed like in the past.

#28

tipthetim

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I don't think this is completely true, I have played neon and you have to be very conscious of how you move in the air. I do agree that grounded straifing is a little to strong right now.

#20

novato1

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Dude, using Neon doesn't mean you'll automatically shoot the enemy in the head... there's a whole mechanic, I don't think it was a good comparison, but I get what you mean. Neon breaks the FPS pattern because Valorant is a slow game in terms of movement, so when Neon starts sliding with an ult on someone, the game turns into Quake.