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The Goat of valorant (this far)
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I mean at this point it comes down to recency bias because there has been no player thats been the GOAT from the very beginning till now.
Cause I can tell you that when Yay was on ABX sure he was popping off but did he win them anything? No.
Tenz has been crazy for most of his val career and he definitely was a cup of golden sand compared to the rest of the desert at a certain point before and during iceland, but now he faces problems with composition and the question of how well would the team do if he isnt the player that is on the duelist which causes a lot of problems.
We can also say cNed but again what has he realistically done for the team? I dont think Champs was because of him at all, he was playing just like how he always does but players like zeek and especially Starxo were the reason for their win. Often times starxo doesnt do anything at all and hes; I would argue, one of the teams worst players (bottom 2 next to Kiles).
Chronicle, absolutely insane, definitely best player in the world, but again he is a super new face and he hasnt achieved really much at all.
I could go on, Scream, Jamppi, Link, Sugarzero, Forsaken, Jing, Derke, Alfajer, Angel (not for fragging but hes probably one of the best IGLs in the world), nAts, Leaf. Youll see however that literally everyone mentioned always has a period in which they didnt do anything at all.
So for the amount of time Tenz was relevant and was dominating, and how he still puts up performance regardless of the teams results I would say hes the GOAT. He has had the most relevance and the highest peak out of anyone in all of valorant history. Sure he has quite an above avg performance on Raze most times and we havent yet seen his chamber so well have to reserve judgement on that but overall hes the longest standing with the highest position.
good take imo
Rejecting every possible argument below
One trick jett: Maybe at champions, but he's been playing raze too. He says he wishes he could play chamber for SEN but Shaz doesn't want him to.(Not TenZ's Fault)
Done nothing since iceland: Let's take SEN's most recent game for example. Do you really call dropping 40 on LG nothing? Sure SEN didn't win, but it that really TenZ's problem? SEN's roster does not fit with tenz's playstyle, plus, are we talking about Greatest player or greatest team?
Too Agro(1 dimentional): if you are not in Pro play, or look at pro games very seriously, then you cannot make this argument. Having looked at hundreds of hours of vods, i can say TenZ is not a one dimentional player. He knows when to agro and when to not(Most of the time).
This is talking ab TenZ as a duliest, not as other roles.
Not saying TenZ is the GOAT, but He is def one of the best, Downfrag me if you want, but the facts are here and if you don't like it, that just means you are blind and biased
this is true but what was he doing on c9 before his time in Sentinels? the people around him allow him to drop 40 whether we want to believe it or not. this team won't win with tenz on it. he's really good against the t2 t3 teams but disappears in most series against t1 teams. lol can't be the goat with that level of inconsistency against top teams.
completely agree, youve stated pretty much most of his pros and few of his problems but ill add to the too agro bit. He still has a tendency to over agro but i dont think that its due to him not knowing when to do it. Hes gotten a better sense for it now and compared to for example their match against C9, you can really see a difference in his play. He over agros a lot still but he does it when he sees that highly risky window that could win his team the round especially when theyre in a tough spot. Often times it will go wrong but he'll do it in a round where theyve pretty much already lost so it isnt too much of a detriment but on breeze against LG i saw a lot of opportunities for him to exploit LG but it just looked like they were really solid and they were able to catch Tenz making those plays a few times
Dude hasn't done much in tier 1 scene since a long time.... he's mechanically phenomenal but there's something that's just not working for him asf rn. So considering him as the GOAT of Val would be wrong for the other pros who have done way more for the teams they have been in. Maybe someday he will be considered the GOAT but rn he's the King of Flashy plays and has amassed a massive fan following through it but he just can't cut it in the Pro scene.
Consistency is measured in international performances not in regional dominance because that doesn’t take into account the region’s overall level, if so I could say Loud>>>Optic cause loud is much more dominating in BR
If you wanna go with international performances AND regional dominance than Gambit takes the W
DRX are really clean and when they are confident and at their peak they could prob beat any team in the world.
But they haven't showed that consistency. I think the team that has shown that same peak DRX has, only consistently, is Gambit.
If DRX get their shit together AKA they fix their mental/choking issues they 100% could be a cleaner Gambit. You can see Gambit aren't as precise and clean as DRX, but they are a lot more organic and less likely to choke.
The SKT of League/the OG of Dota 2/the Astralis of CSGO would be a team that can be as strategic as DRX while also having the flexibility of Gambit, mark my words.
false. anybody above diamond can see that even in basic fundamentals and synergy DRX are a well oiled machine. Tarik pointed out how barely seconds after spike was planted DRX had formed a really good triple crossfire. That stuff isn't a gimmick. What is a gimmick is stuff like yay's double updraft on Icebox. That he doesn't even use in pro games. DRX's set plays and executes are copied by or inspire other top teams around the world. (new 100Thieves literally made their own version of one of DRX's Icebox plants) That's no gimmick. Ask any reliable analyst, coach, or pro player and they will tell you at the very least that DRX are a very good strategical and tactical team.
simply not true, I can tell you are wood 1 from what you are talking about, you literally prepare posplant positions in theory time, doesnt make drx good strategically, a team that relies on gimmicks + set strats is not good strategically, very good tactically but strategically they dont have the understanding of a t1 team, they will never win anything if they keep up this style, as soon as you disrupt their choreographed they are done, not good enough strategically, very bad defaulting and adapting to teams that force them to play good fundamental valorant, same thing as fnatic but with a bit worse players and even worse fundamentals than fnatic
"false. anybody above diamond" m8 diamonds and inmortals have no clue about the game, not even radiant ranked heroes, there isnt a rank where people understand start to have deep understanding of the game, this sentence alone tells me you are not very good player, in order to truly have a deep understanding of the game you need to be competing at a somewhat decent tier, ranked players have no fucking clue about the game + " Tarik pointed out how barely seconds after spike was planted DRX had formed a really good triple crossfire" that isnt by definition a gimmick but its not something you do on the moment, they didnt quick think and adapt to that situation to form that crossfire, every single team have set positions for postplants and even more DRX who look after every detail and try to choreograph everything without any adaptation/on the fly thinking, they probably have a shit ton of gimmicks and different types of posplants positions for every possible scenario
- you are biased, you are korean, ofc you are gonna say they are good, you are dog who doesnt understand anything about the game, you are at max gold and korean, you are literally blind if you think drx is good strategically
ALSO HOW CAN YOU SAY THE COULD BE A CLEANER GAMBIT? LOOOL LITERALLY OPPOSITE PLAYSTYLES, SETPLAYS/GIMMICKS MERCHANTS VS CLASSIC CIS HEAVY DEFAULT SLOW PLAYSTYLE, THEY CANT BE A CLEANER GAMBIT LMAO, THE THING ABOUT DRX IS THAT THEY DO THINGS CLEANLY BUT THIS KPOPER PLAYSTYLE DOESNT WORK, THESE DRX PLAYERS WERE TIER99 IN CSGO THEY TRIED TO PLAY LIKE THESE AGAINST EUROPEAN TEAMS AND TEAMS JUST TRIED TO MAKE IT VERY SCRAPPY AND PUG IT OUT AND GUESS WHAT HAPPENED? THEIR PLAYSTYLE DOESNT WORK IF YOUR OPPONENT DECIDES ITS TIME TO PLAY RANKED, ALWAYS 16-0 AGAINST KOREA IN CSGO, SO BAD, DOGS DIDNT LEARN THEIR LESSON TOO, THEY TRY SAME PLAYSTYLE IN VALORANT LOL, NO WONDER THEY ALWAYS LOSE TO NA TEAMS, EVEN NA RANKED HEROES COULD MAKE A TEAM AND BEAT DRX JUST PLAYING LIKE ITS RANKED
Unlike you I actually have competitive coaching/analytical experience in NA so I think I have more of an idea on what I'm talking about.
I'm also high immortal and have reached immortal in 2 regions.
You obviously haven't been watching DRX play the game as their defaults and fundamentals are some of the best in the world.
I respect(ed) the opinion you have and why you think that way, but when a lot of pro players and analysts (Sean Gares, Sideshow, TenZ, nAts, Tarik, Benkai, Laz, Mixwell, Suygetsu, Derke, Sliggy, Soulcas) have spoken on how good DRX are and how tactically and strategically clean they are, it's fair to say my argument has more credibility than yours.
UPDATE: Well now after seeing this reply it's really not worth my time to keep talking to you. You call me a biased Korean but you yourself are heavily, heavily biased towards EU no? Looking through your post history it's very clear. You also predicted APAC to not do well at Reykjavik lmao, guess Paper Rex really broke you after 2-0ing your #1 seed. Not to mention Gambit are indeed not as clean as DRX. If you watched DRX's games their trades are really clean along with their positioning. Stax has also gone on record to say they actually don't use set strats that much and just comm like every other team. So the structured and cohesive gameplay you see is literally just them playing normally, without relying on gimmicks or set-plays. Seems like you're projecting because you seem to call anybody who disagrees with you "max gold", I suspect if Trick wasn't a decently well-known pro player you'd have called him max gold too lmao. Seeing as how during his Champions interview Derke (your top 2 player itw) specifically called KR the 2nd best region and that they were very good despite getting grouped, you should calm down.
https://youtu.be/zcGXxE4d77g
@9:30
I guess some EU fanboys can't be reasoned with /shrug.
you are on fucking drugs if you actually think their defaulting is good, also I have experience playing in lower tiers in EU at a much higher level than you probably, saying they are strategically/fundamentally good is shameless + awful defaulting, very important to know the difference between tactically and strategically VERY IMPORTANT THEY ARE DIFFERENT CONCEPTS NOT MANY PROS WILL KNOW THE DIFFERENCE ABOUT THEM so I agree they are very good tactically not strategically, I would even say they are only 2-3 good teams strategically in valorant, the level is so low atm in many aspects of the game
BTW idc what derke thinks 2nd best region is, I rate him as a player nothing else, I am not his fanboy that will think he cant say bullshit, Korea is not 2nd best region lmao, NA and Brazil way better teams and depth also I would expect Derke to say DRX are good, they very similar playstyles
"Unlike you I actually have competitive coaching/analytical experience in NA so I think I have more of an idea on what I'm talking about." LMAO, probably in tier99, saying you have experience in NA means nothing, literally a pug region where tier2-3 is nonexistent, literally no scene, here is EU even tier5 play somewhat good valorant, NA not even in tier1 so if you are one of the coaches/analyst in those tiers in NA you are doing a terrible job m8, you play like dogs
Redgar better IGL than FNS + Derke and Cned shit on tenzedzombie who is not even good nowadays against decent teams, how is drx goat team? the only reason they have been number 1 in their region for so long is because every1 else sucks not because they are good, no wonder you guys cant get past opens even in a tier2 region!
I hate to say it but TenZ.
obviously an insane mechanical player and has 2 masters under his belt. Too bad he's only good at 1 agent.
Other than him i'd probably say Yay is the best player in the world right now; just won masters and is consistently >300 ACS, doesn't have the historical event wins though.
Sinatraa would still be better than both :P
hate me all u want, but TenZ is still the goat imo. some ppl may called him washed, but if u look at the recent stats, u would realize that SEN is the one that's washed but not tenz, and he never said that he's the best player in the first place. so i dont understand the hate everytime he botfrag in some matches. I still think he is still the face of valorant.... or yay
hate me all u want, but TenZ is still the goat imo. some ppl may called him washed, but if u look at the recent stats, u would realize that SEN is the one that's washed but not tenz, and he never said that he's the best player in the first place. so i dont understand the hate everytime he botfrag in some matches. I still think he is still the face of valorant.... or yay
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