Last year Icebox Meta

#1

Anguibok

hello vlr, today video is about Icebox analysis this video should have been release in the preseason with the other analysis of a map, buuuut, Icebox was out of the meta, so I posponed it, Icebox is back so I can release it,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH7fySuMBxI

tldw ;

Jett, KJ and Viper is good
Gekko > Sova
Sage > Kayo > All
Most used comp Jett/Kayo/Sova/Kjoy/Vipr
Best comp Jett/Sage/Gekko/Kjoy/Vipr
Composition that I have no idea if that good but that I want to see : Waylay/Sage/Tejo/Vyze/Vipr (Waylay and Sage are here to lock people for Tejo to kill them, Viper in mendatory, and Vyze is just for curiosity)

What are the composition you want team to experiment on the map vlr ?

#2

hmjkhbhuy

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i genuinely think we could definetly see yoru instead of waylay, or yoru and waylay together because waylay as a solo duelist isnt very effective. maybe jett and waylay together too and we could divedown on sites as well lmao

#6

Anguibok

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I don't understand why Waylay could be only duo duel. If thats the case they are no way she is played on Icebox x)
Why Yoru on icebox ?

#14

Kei8

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waylay doesnt have a way to cover herself after she dashes in

#17

Anguibok

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For that you need a smoker, not another duelist no ?

#18

Kei8

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well if you need another smoker to make waylay work i think pros would rather just pick jett and anoter initiator

#23

Anguibok

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What ? No doble controller is far more used than doble duelist !

#30

hmjkhbhuy

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no, you can only smoke the choke points, and the smokes last for very long.
as compared to jett, who has her own smokes which dont last too long, so she can survive while dashing.
waylay CANNOT survive while dashing unless the enemy whiffs.

#31

Anguibok

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"no, you can only smoke the choke points" why ?
Why a team would be perma ban if they do a landing smoke for Waylay ?

#33

hmjkhbhuy

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thats just a waste of the smoke which could be useful for other scenarios. it will definetly work in ranked, but the value that ONE smoke loses in pro play is a lot.

#34

Anguibok

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If you plays doble smoke (Wish is really good comp), then you are fine

#35

hmjkhbhuy

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double smokes comps usually are omen & viper(viper only has a wall, which isnt useful for waylay), and nowadays you really cant considering double initiator is becoming much much more meta.

ALSO
if the refract + dash combo doesnt work(which btw is the only combo on her currently), waylay wont have any other util left for the round. she is a good agent to farm kills with, someone like a reyna. she is good for self-play but not for team play.

#36

Anguibok

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That was true last year, this year we see a lot of doble dome, like Omen-Astra

continue thread →

#3

MrBlooBloom

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I've seen enough, Paper Rex winning it all

#4

Frogger0_0

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MrBlooBloom

#5

MrBlooBloom

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Frogger0_0

#7

Yistyy

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I dont want to see any sage. I dont want bums in ranked to get the wrong idea.

#8

notepicfailboi

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Fr. I rarely ever see a decent sage in my games. Like if you wanna play senti just play kj/cypher/vyse

#9

ggd12345

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im the opposite, i want my sages to get some love (i don't play sage btw)

#13

Yistyy

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They toss all my elo tho

#24

Anguibok

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https://tracker.gg/valorant/insights/agents top 3 WR in soloQ T.T

#25

Yistyy

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Doesnt prove anything

#27

Anguibok

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Isnt that proving that a player that play Sage will win more ?

#37

akimb0_

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thats statistics from all levels of play. which means that its mostly egirls getting carried by their smurf duos.

#38

Anguibok

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So that mean when he plays with a Sage he has more chance to win, because she is probably with a duo :]

#39

akimb0_

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thats not how this works. youre trying to build the perfect comp and its not by analyzing tracker top picks across all elos

#40

Anguibok

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Tha guy was talking about soloQ, he make the subject shift. I was not talking about 5 stack or proplay

#10

Hades_Loves_Rb

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Ok but have you considered EGs old icebox comp from early 2024? https://www.vlr.gg/295617/g2-esports-vs-evil-geniuses-champions-tour-2024-americas-kickoff-winners-c/?game=153759&tab=overview

#11

Yistyy

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Potter is the GOAT.

#12

Anguibok

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Are you trying to make the come back of the the Sage versus Deadlock debate T.T ?

Deadlock was played 9 times and looses 6. In a map where it's hard to defend retake are strong, and Sage have a ot of potential in retake.

Sage have 201 pick, 139 NonMirrorPick, 57% NMWR

I don't know where the Sage hate comes, but the agent have an amazing 57% NMWR on the map (3rd after Vipr and KJ among agent that have more than 20 NMgames)

#15

foythvlr

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tbh i think gekko was much more a product of the meta than a stronger pick than sova. sova 4-2'd him on internationals (counting only gekko vs sova maps, since a considerable amount of teams ran both together), with one gekko win being on madrid (GenG vs Loud) and other being on shangai (FPX with that weird triple controller win). ik on absolute numbers overall he might have been stronger but on top level he was weaker than sova, and later on the seasons teams were playing more double init with him and sova. i think he will be out of the map meta with tejo but either sova or kayo stays.

sage likely will always be relevant on the map since she was always strong in it. with viper being a must, waylay seemingly pretty strong on the map and killjoy also being pretty likely after tejo nerfs, i think the meta will be jett/waylay/reyna - tejo - sova - viper - killjoy, with some teams running no duelist (harbor/sage/clove), and sage and kayo popping up here and there

#19

Anguibok

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I understand the appeal of looking at international only, but lets be honnest, they are millions of parameters that explain why the team that win with Sova have won, and composition is only one of them, the best T1 team could win with 5 duelist against the bottom T1 team, with a slight margin, so to know if a agent is good or not, they are no choice, we need a lot of games, and not only international events, even if that can help a lot to analysis how the agent was a part of the win ^^

But you are right on a point Gekko seems better last year that this year, so yeah maybe Sova will steal his first place we will see on the long term !

#20

foythvlr

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i agree and think its fair looking this way but i also think there needs to be some weight on match level like a champions top 5 match isn't the same as a first masters top 5 match; a regional bottom feeder didn't play gekko the same way the sentinels played; etc etc etc

#16

Galactc

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Hot take but I think iso is the 2nd best duelist on icebox just play iso sova viper kj and then gekko/kayo/sage or a 2nd duelist if you really want but this should be yoru or jett only

#21

UnAnarchy

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surely it isnt that hard to type out viper

#22

Anguibok

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Going to sleep
Thinking while sleep
Realising I forot to add the substitute even if I took 15min to do them
Going up because I know they are no way I find sleep

But at least now they are up (Please tell me if it's working or not)

#26

AutismCanBeCured

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Nt but leave the icebox analysis to real experts like m4

#28

Anguibok

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I promise next script gonna be 100 pages.

I really missed the mark of starting the video by "Icebox is inspired by Becket island"

#44

229fn

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It's Bennett Island - only the real Icebox experts know

#45

needAwin

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could you link that thread, i cant find it

#52

229fn

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https://www.vlr.gg/440590/100t-coaching-search-application

#47

Anguibok

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Sorry, I'm the worst analyst :c

#29

Kirako

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since duelists are not that relevant on this map could we see 3 initiator comps like tejo gekko sova viper kj? breach maybe?

#MVGA

#32

Anguibok

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Duelist are mush better now, I dont think 0-D are still good team, plus Sage is also really strong, and doble controlelr are also a thing. So triple init is hard...

#43

khayso

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Vyze on icebox is a bronze take

#46

VacuousViper

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omen
clove
harbor
gekko
kayo

w team

#48

Anguibok

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Eeeeerm ?

#51

VacuousViper

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this comp has a 82% chance to win any given attacking round on icebox on the international stage :D

#54

Anguibok

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You talk about result (if yes, how many games) or predictable model ?

#55

VacuousViper

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Game 1: Win 13-2, ATK 10-2, DEF 2-1
Game 2: Win 13-10, ATK 7-5, DEF 6-5
Game 3: Lose 12-14, ATK 8-5, DEF 4-9
Game 4: Win, 13-10, ATK 9-2, DEF 4-8
Game 5: Lose, 15-17, ATK 12-4, DEF 3-13

#49

Effluxi

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clove -> kj
harbor -> viper
gekko -> tejo

fixed

#50

VacuousViper

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no triple controller not to my liking

#53

Effluxi

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you're the one who suggested triple controller mine just has Omen instead of a duelist