You can say what you want about their respective flashes and molly, but the real comparison is between kayo knife and phoenix wall. Who knows, we may see phoenix>kayo after the wall buff, but a 40 second refreshable scan that also suppresses people versus a wall that damages players and your teamates? The knife will generally get you more value (especially on defense), and since you will already have smokes on your team or your throwing.
Are you suggesting phoenix solo duelist? Because unless ou want to only entry on rounds you have phoenix ult it's not gonna go well. Even with the ult, if you get shut down you have no entry. Having a Jett as your main duelist is necessary on abyss. I could see you running a phoenix as a secondary duelist, but I'd argue kayo is better in that regard
yeah you're just wrong, phoenix ult can be killed with one bullet, kayo allows you enter like a king, no abilities is so broken also your kayo can tank op shots for you just like phoenix but the op has to fall back or will be killed unlike phoenix ult, you can just util spam during that period and most likely will get a free site and/or kill one or two players, they have no way of stopping you, phoenix ult doesn't even need util for you to counter, it wastes no util and provides little to no value if the players play properly, phoenix is the worst duelist by far.
no way you said phoenix wall>kayo molly, both are very different abilities and the molly just provides much more value.
kayo flashes are by far the best flashes in the game, they are much harder to dodge and phoenix flashes are mostly selfish which have so little range of motion, like you have to push if you flash revealing your position and you just instantly die if your flash is dodged, kayo flashes can be used from far away, and can be used for site execs more than just flashing around the corner like phoenix flashes, low risks infinitely more returns, you can't compare even a single phoenix util with kayo and say it's better, kayo clears hard.
the post i replied to was you comparing phoenix util with kayo util, i replied to you, I have made other arguments in this post why phoenix is not good, but this post you made was specifically comparing kayo util and phoenix util
if this post was specifically about entering then sure phoenix is a duelist but kayo can setup other better duelists and the entry will be better, also the way you phrased it it seems like you were comparing them generally, maybe im wrong
you're guessing they won't peek you, is that how you make strategies, assume people will do something in your favour, valorant is an unpredictable game plus they can just use abilities to fight that ult, double peek it, kayo ult literally forces no util intervention while executing and you can just util spam and basically guarantee post plant or kill one or two just because of the util advantage, pheonix ult can be killed and easily taken down. how are you supposed to enter now?
honestly would u take a chance and peek a phoenix ult
best case scenario u waste some util and kill him
worst case scenario u die and he just respawns
they can be unpredictable but u can be unpredictable too, throw in fakes, etc
and basically all teams play kj instead of cypher on that map, but u can still destroy the trips, like how ppl run neon against cypher on sunset, its perfectly playable
kayo ult is also 8 orbs instead of 6
again situational isn't it, any agent can be the best agent in the game if you the game goes how you want it to, but this is valorant, the opponents can have 20 different abilities in a round, there are 1000s of permutations of what can happen in a round, it's just so unpredictable. to break trips the sentinel must be on the site you're hitting, does that matter to kayo? i think not. you can throw better fakes with your ult and instantly rotate without getting pushed by 3 players after getting killed in your ult. plus guaranteed more info than pheonix ult while throwing fakes you know all agents and their positions on the site.
fr and if you want a six orb ult, cypher ult is literally so much better, you can farm that while lurking which doesn't hinder your teams ability to enter, what's phoenix going to do against trips? hit trips and die while entering? even if he has ult the team won't be able to enter if the phoenix ult is just wasted after a trip is hit.
your 2 orbs every round thing gets figured out in 2 rounds and you get countered after that + its a big ass map its gonna take ages from orb to orb if they even remotely contest anything and you gotta clear things, then you gotta commit to the place where you take the second orb or run the timer even lower with 0 map control since youve been running in spawn the whole round
Jett. Why not phoenix? Well, it's a huge fricking map that's why. Let's say you do manage to farm orbs every round and ult ever so often, you'll just get shot the moment you go enter a site cause of the amount of unpredictable angles abyss has. His flash is really easy to dodge so why not just use a more high value and low risk agent like kayo that can take solo fights, support, has a better molly and suppress an entire site with just one knife? Jett is just better overall because of her mobility and value she has when opping on either side of the map.
yoru better for rotation, neon better for rotation, jett opping, map with long sight lines, pheonix provides nothing here, kayo is just a much better pheonix why would you not just run kayo jett and yoru as a second duelist if needed, pheonix flashes are also useless in long range fights kayo flashes are much better low risk and high range of motion, molly is just another molly, ult? kinda useless if you play properly plus big map so it doesn't work that well, yoru ult hard clears it's not even funny, wall is the most useless except gives you some cover for 8 seconds, all in all neon jett yoru clear
i like phoenix over kayo just cuz of the pure fragging potential phoenix has
phoenix flashes r undodgable if thrown correctly, however the limitations r that u can only use them around corners or behind walls
wall might be useful if ur tryna defuse (?) in this pearl spam post plant meta when ur team is dead, a bit of a stretch but its a good entry wall
on paper its not the most plausible (to some people ig?) but once u see it in action u would understand
fragging potential while sacrificing site execs util, you won't be able to take sites better with pheonix than with kayo, kayo flashes are better, many pros have said unanimously that kayo flashes are the best flashes in the game, most undodgeable, of course pheonix flashes can be made undodgeable, but kayo flashes are literally much better generally rather than a case by case basis (situationally any util can provide value, but in general kayo flashes are better)
frag potential when you have jett is not needed, jett is a better fragger and can get out easily.
again situationally any util can be good, you're just nitpicking examples of walls that can be used, doesn't make it any better, it's not something that always provides you good value like kayo knife, wall is literally situationally you can't predict what happens so it's pretty much useless until one round it isn't, the ability sucks let it go. some cover while entering but you can smoke, viper wall whatever much more likely people won't push through a viper wall than a fucking pheonix wall, "to some people" your opinion is literally in the minority, phoenix hasn't been used professional since the start of time unless you call sadhaak pheonix breach comps "good".
site exec util is debatable, but ya kayo def has the edge here
the whole point of why choose phoenix is to farm the ult orbs and keep chaining ults, in which case he would be better than kayo because he chains faster than kayo ult
im js giving a bit of examples of when u can use the jett ult
a phx ult ever 2-3 rounds is much better than u think
sure, phoenix ult is easier to farm, but it objectively provides less value, ults with less orbs are objectively weaker than ults with more orbs, you can ult spam but that ult can be cleared with little util and a double peek. it doesn't provide any guaranteed value except the info, but you can use it more ig, so it really is pros and cons situation, pros - more ults, cons- ults kinda not good compared to other ults like your kayo, where you can get guaranteed value out of it in any situation (mostly).
i don't think pheonix will be played anytime soon in pro play
usually when u phx ult ur team follows behind so double peeking usually isnt the right play
but yea theres pros and cos
PRX had a top 1 or 2 pearls in the world and they ran phoenix but that doesnt necessarily mean phx>kayo im just saying its perfectly viable
theres some flaws tho this is pretty antistrattable to me in proplay but i can see good coaches making this work
in ranked on the other hand just lock phx and farm bro
lets just agree to disagree and see in pro play
I said Jett is up there didn't I? And I say phoenix is a good agent on the map because his wall is better than a viper wall when used properly on pearl. The orbs are extremely easy to farm here and phoenix's flash provides value in close corner fights, which pearl has a bunch of btw. His molly is really easy to use on this map too. Main reason why he's really good imo is because of his wall, there's a reason why harbour was picked so much on pearl when he was released, phoenix's wall is just the same but smaller basically. Want more proof on why phoenix is a good duelist on this map? Take a look at his pick rate in pro play on the map and you'll see. Oh, and pearl isn't that big btw wtfym.
no way you said phoenix wall> viper wall. again pheonix wall is the most situational ability ever, any ability can be good in certain situations, viper wall is undoubtedly better generally, you can use it more than once, people are much less likely to push a viper wall cuz of the decay, and you can activate it with just a press of a button instead of carefully creating and curving a phoenix (which can be better situationally again), viper wall can just be deployed at the start, no way in hell is viper wall worse than pheonix wall. again pheonix ult is a one of the worst ults in the game, yoru ult is one of the best ones, why not just use your provides much more value as a second duelist.
bro compared harbor wall to pheonix wall OMFG, you are kidding me, b site sight lines are the biggest ones on any map, rotation is much more slower than ascent or icebox, you just said a false thing.
Yo chill out man wtf we're talking about pixels rn in a man-made fps shooter LMFAO CHILL THE FK OUT. It's really just phoenix better on pearl for me because in ranked, getting kills on your own is your best option to win in soloq, that's all. It's hard to be a team player and play kayo or smth when all these randoms in my servers (APAC) speak different languages as each other most of the time and have awful ping.
i didn't want to be aggressive and im sorry if I came onto you, I just hate phoenix, and you said phoenix>jett, that ignited a fire in me, I have always hated phoenix because of how selfish as a agent he is, imo the worst agent in the game rn, also I'm specifically talking about pro play, ignore me if you didn't care, i swear I don't mean to demean you, im sorry if i was annoying
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