chrlxz [#3]its jett bro be fr
not when u have a phx ult for entry every other round
with the phoenix buffs its gonna be even better
and ur wall lasts 8secs and u can use that to entry b
smthlikeyou11 [#4]not when u have a phx ult for entry every other round
with the phoenix buffs its gonna be even better
and ur wall lasts 8secs and u can use that to entry b
You're legitimately saying you're getting 6 ults per half
Vaaero [#6]You're legitimately saying you're getting 6 ults per half
2 orbs per round = 4 orbs per 2 rounds
that + everytime u die or get a kill u get a orb
u do the math
merciless-pity8989-89 [#5]Abyss has a lot of choke points tho. I think it would be better to have a dive agent
still incredibly doable ull see once u try it
u can always run jett+phoenix
jett
phoenix
fade
astra/omen/brim
kj
smthlikeyou11 [#7]2 orbs per round = 4 orbs per 2 rounds
that + everytime u die or get a kill u get a orb
u do the math
ngl that is kinda op . only thing is that gettiong 2 orbs each round might be difficult. edit: only thing this would work well in ranked tho, not in pro play
smthlikeyou11 [#7]2 orbs per round = 4 orbs per 2 rounds
that + everytime u die or get a kill u get a orb
u do the math
Well ya but why not just play kayo? He's a better Phoenix and gives a lot more value on defense. It's likely that you'll have a stronger attack half anyways and will need to male up for your defense, and I don't think double duelist is the way
Vaaero [#11]Well ya but why not just play kayo? He's a better Phoenix and gives a lot more value on defense. It's likely that you'll have a stronger attack half anyways and will need to male up for your defense, and I don't think double duelist is the way
Phoenix flash is situationally better than KAY/O flash, phoenix wall>kayo molly in terms of usefulness, phoenix molly=kayo knife. Phoenix ult is both cheaper and stronger on entry than KAY/O ult imo.
your 2 orbs every round thing gets figured out in 2 rounds and you get countered after that + its a big ass map its gonna take ages from orb to orb if they even remotely contest anything and you gotta clear things, then you gotta commit to the place where you take the second orb or run the timer even lower with 0 map control since youve been running in spawn the whole round
u [#13]your 2 orbs every round thing gets figured out in 2 rounds and you get countered after that + its a big ass map its gonna take ages from orb to orb if they even remotely contest anything and you gotta clear things, then you gotta commit to the place where you take the second orb or run the timer even lower with 0 map control since youve been running in spawn the whole round
Just start default and hit whatevr site is away from the one they contest ^_^
lielahh [#14]Just start default and hit whatevr site is away from the one they contest ^_^
insta contesting isnt the only way to counter
lielahh [#12]Phoenix flash is situationally better than KAY/O flash, phoenix wall>kayo molly in terms of usefulness, phoenix molly=kayo knife. Phoenix ult is both cheaper and stronger on entry than KAY/O ult imo.
You can say what you want about their respective flashes and molly, but the real comparison is between kayo knife and phoenix wall. Who knows, we may see phoenix>kayo after the wall buff, but a 40 second refreshable scan that also suppresses people versus a wall that damages players and your teamates? The knife will generally get you more value (especially on defense), and since you will already have smokes on your team or your throwing.
Vaaero [#17]You can say what you want about their respective flashes and molly, but the real comparison is between kayo knife and phoenix wall. Who knows, we may see phoenix>kayo after the wall buff, but a 40 second refreshable scan that also suppresses people versus a wall that damages players and your teamates? The knife will generally get you more value (especially on defense), and since you will already have smokes on your team or your throwing.
The niche in this comp is an entry role though, it’s not about the flash role. I think Breach is BIS on that map for the flash flex role but I wouldn’t want a KAY/O as my entry.
lielahh [#18]The niche in this comp is an entry role though, it’s not about the flash role. I think Breach is BIS on that map for the flash flex role but I wouldn’t want a KAY/O as my entry.
Are you suggesting phoenix solo duelist? Because unless ou want to only entry on rounds you have phoenix ult it's not gonna go well. Even with the ult, if you get shut down you have no entry. Having a Jett as your main duelist is necessary on abyss. I could see you running a phoenix as a secondary duelist, but I'd argue kayo is better in that regard
Vaaero [#20]Are you suggesting phoenix solo duelist? Because unless ou want to only entry on rounds you have phoenix ult it's not gonna go well. Even with the ult, if you get shut down you have no entry. Having a Jett as your main duelist is necessary on abyss. I could see you running a phoenix as a secondary duelist, but I'd argue kayo is better in that regard
I’m not opinionated either way but in the context of this post Phoenix is a main duelist suggestion, so saying KAY/O is better than him isn’t correct
Abyss also isn’t really a hard entry map, you can clear pretty much all of site with just a sova dart.
lielahh [#21]I’m not opinionated either way but in the context of this post Phoenix is a main duelist suggestion, so saying KAY/O is better than him isn’t correct
Abyss also isn’t really a hard entry map, you can clear pretty much all of site with just a sova dart.
The only other map that runs a solo non-entry duelist is Reyna on icebox. There are also other comps that choose no duelist on icebox, and they are arguably better than a Reyna. Teams will find a lot of value on a Reyna, but does that mean that Reyna is th best duelist on icebox?
Vaaero [#22]The only other map that runs a solo non-entry duelist is Reyna on icebox. There are also other comps that choose no duelist on icebox, and they are arguably better than a Reyna. Teams will find a lot of value on a Reyna, but does that mean that Reyna is th best duelist on icebox?
Icebox plays different to abyss though, and the no duelist comp plays a different style to the reyna comp. Reyna isn’t the best duelist on Icebox because the default jett comp is better, the point being made in this post is that there’s an argument for Phoenix being better than Jett on the map in that slot.
lielahh [#23]Icebox plays different to abyss though, and the no duelist comp plays a different style to the reyna comp. Reyna isn’t the best duelist on Icebox because the default jett comp is better, the point being made in this post is that there’s an argument for Phoenix being better than Jett on the map in that slot.
The point made in the post is that phoenix is the best duelist on abyss, which think we both agree on, but I don't see phoenix bringing enough to the table that a kayo couldn't. A no duelist plays differen than a Reyna on icebox because Reyna is a very unique agent, but kayo is very similar to phoenix but with upsides. Phoenix has a place in double duelist, but not single
Vaaero [#24]The point made in the post is that phoenix is the best duelist on abyss, which think we both agree on, but I don't see phoenix bringing enough to the table that a kayo couldn't. A no duelist plays differen than a Reyna on icebox because Reyna is a very unique agent, but kayo is very similar to phoenix but with upsides. Phoenix has a place in double duelist, but not single
I think that kayo plays better than phoenix if Phoenix is a 2nd duelist, but as a solo duelist phoenix offers more 😭😭😭
smthlikeyou11 [#8]still incredibly doable ull see once u try it
u can always run jett+phoenixjett
phoenix
fade
astra/omen/brim
kj
Aint no way you're running fade on a map as big as abyss
AfterGlow22 [#26]Aint no way you're running fade on a map as big as abyss
i see the vision but kayo or sova would prob work
fade is js what i would go w
Jett. Why not phoenix? Well, it's a huge fricking map that's why. Let's say you do manage to farm orbs every round and ult ever so often, you'll just get shot the moment you go enter a site cause of the amount of unpredictable angles abyss has. His flash is really easy to dodge so why not just use a more high value and low risk agent like kayo that can take solo fights, support, has a better molly and suppress an entire site with just one knife? Jett is just better overall because of her mobility and value she has when opping on either side of the map.
AfterGlow22 [#28]Jett. Why not phoenix? Well, it's a huge fricking map that's why. Let's say you do manage to farm orbs every round and ult ever so often, you'll just get shot the moment you go enter a site cause of the amount of unpredictable angles abyss has. His flash is really easy to dodge so why not just use a more high value and low risk agent like kayo that can take solo fights, support, has a better molly and suppress an entire site with just one knife? Jett is just better overall because of her mobility and value she has when opping on either side of the map.
OH SHIT
abyss
I MEANT PEARL holy fuck
lielahh [#12]Phoenix flash is situationally better than KAY/O flash, phoenix wall>kayo molly in terms of usefulness, phoenix molly=kayo knife. Phoenix ult is both cheaper and stronger on entry than KAY/O ult imo.
yeah you're just wrong, phoenix ult can be killed with one bullet, kayo allows you enter like a king, no abilities is so broken also your kayo can tank op shots for you just like phoenix but the op has to fall back or will be killed unlike phoenix ult, you can just util spam during that period and most likely will get a free site and/or kill one or two players, they have no way of stopping you, phoenix ult doesn't even need util for you to counter, it wastes no util and provides little to no value if the players play properly, phoenix is the worst duelist by far.
no way you said phoenix wall>kayo molly, both are very different abilities and the molly just provides much more value.
kayo flashes are by far the best flashes in the game, they are much harder to dodge and phoenix flashes are mostly selfish which have so little range of motion, like you have to push if you flash revealing your position and you just instantly die if your flash is dodged, kayo flashes can be used from far away, and can be used for site execs more than just flashing around the corner like phoenix flashes, low risks infinitely more returns, you can't compare even a single phoenix util with kayo and say it's better, kayo clears hard.
smthlikeyou11 [#29]OH SHIT
abyss
I MEANT PEARL holy fuck
If so, yoru and phoenix are the best duelists, Jett is also up there though
lielahh [#25]I think that kayo plays better than phoenix if Phoenix is a 2nd duelist, but as a solo duelist phoenix offers more 😭😭😭
My question then is why would you play phoenix solo duelist?
AfterGlow22 [#32]If so, yoru and phoenix are the best duelists, Jett is also up there though
why phoenix, jett clears hard, phoenix is not it, neon might be better than phoenix
1243 [#34]why phoenix, jett clears hard, phoenix is not it, neon might be better than phoenix
yoru better for rotation, neon better for rotation, jett opping, map with long sight lines, pheonix provides nothing here, kayo is just a much better pheonix why would you not just run kayo jett and yoru as a second duelist if needed, pheonix flashes are also useless in long range fights kayo flashes are much better low risk and high range of motion, molly is just another molly, ult? kinda useless if you play properly plus big map so it doesn't work that well, yoru ult hard clears it's not even funny, wall is the most useless except gives you some cover for 8 seconds, all in all neon jett yoru clear
smthlikeyou11 [#7]2 orbs per round = 4 orbs per 2 rounds
that + everytime u die or get a kill u get a orb
u do the math
not giving your other teammates (specially initiators) ult orbs just to be a better skye dog every 1/3 round isn't really great
Seo_w [#37]not giving your other teammates (specially initiators) ult orbs just to be a better skye dog every 1/3 round isn't really great
dont think anyone would risk peeking phx ult tho so ur basically forcing them to play retake
Vaaero [#38]All this time and you meant to say pearl
idk man wasnt thinking straight and both maps r blue as shit so i got them mixed up
Seo_w [#37]not giving your other teammates (specially initiators) ult orbs just to be a better skye dog every 1/3 round isn't really great
fr and if you want a six orb ult, cypher ult is literally so much better, you can farm that while lurking which doesn't hinder your teams ability to enter, what's phoenix going to do against trips? hit trips and die while entering? even if he has ult the team won't be able to enter if the phoenix ult is just wasted after a trip is hit.
smthlikeyou11 [#40]idk man wasnt thinking straight and both maps r blue as shit so i got them mixed up
oh fuck that makes a LOT more sense. yeah for pearl i do agree -> phx>jett
1243 [#36]yoru better for rotation, neon better for rotation, jett opping, map with long sight lines, pheonix provides nothing here, kayo is just a much better pheonix why would you not just run kayo jett and yoru as a second duelist if needed, pheonix flashes are also useless in long range fights kayo flashes are much better low risk and high range of motion, molly is just another molly, ult? kinda useless if you play properly plus big map so it doesn't work that well, yoru ult hard clears it's not even funny, wall is the most useless except gives you some cover for 8 seconds, all in all neon jett yoru clear
i like phoenix over kayo just cuz of the pure fragging potential phoenix has
phoenix flashes r undodgable if thrown correctly, however the limitations r that u can only use them around corners or behind walls
wall might be useful if ur tryna defuse (?) in this pearl spam post plant meta when ur team is dead, a bit of a stretch but its a good entry wall
on paper its not the most plausible (to some people ig?) but once u see it in action u would understand
smthlikeyou11 [#40]idk man wasnt thinking straight and both maps r blue as shit so i got them mixed up
Like fuck man this is one of the first posts I actually felt like debating
smthlikeyou11 [#39]dont think anyone would risk peeking phx ult tho so ur basically forcing them to play retake
you're guessing they won't peek you, is that how you make strategies, assume people will do something in your favour, valorant is an unpredictable game plus they can just use abilities to fight that ult, double peek it, kayo ult literally forces no util intervention while executing and you can just util spam and basically guarantee post plant or kill one or two just because of the util advantage, pheonix ult can be killed and easily taken down. how are you supposed to enter now?
1243 [#36]yoru better for rotation, neon better for rotation, jett opping, map with long sight lines, pheonix provides nothing here, kayo is just a much better pheonix why would you not just run kayo jett and yoru as a second duelist if needed, pheonix flashes are also useless in long range fights kayo flashes are much better low risk and high range of motion, molly is just another molly, ult? kinda useless if you play properly plus big map so it doesn't work that well, yoru ult hard clears it's not even funny, wall is the most useless except gives you some cover for 8 seconds, all in all neon jett yoru clear
I said Jett is up there didn't I? And I say phoenix is a good agent on the map because his wall is better than a viper wall when used properly on pearl. The orbs are extremely easy to farm here and phoenix's flash provides value in close corner fights, which pearl has a bunch of btw. His molly is really easy to use on this map too. Main reason why he's really good imo is because of his wall, there's a reason why harbour was picked so much on pearl when he was released, phoenix's wall is just the same but smaller basically. Want more proof on why phoenix is a good duelist on this map? Take a look at his pick rate in pro play on the map and you'll see. Oh, and pearl isn't that big btw wtfym.
1243 [#45]you're guessing they won't peek you, is that how you make strategies, assume people will do something in your favour, valorant is an unpredictable game plus they can just use abilities to fight that ult, double peek it, kayo ult literally forces no util intervention while executing and you can just util spam and basically guarantee post plant or kill one or two just because of the util advantage, pheonix ult can be killed and easily taken down. how are you supposed to enter now?
honestly would u take a chance and peek a phoenix ult
best case scenario u waste some util and kill him
worst case scenario u die and he just respawns
they can be unpredictable but u can be unpredictable too, throw in fakes, etc
and basically all teams play kj instead of cypher on that map, but u can still destroy the trips, like how ppl run neon against cypher on sunset, its perfectly playable
kayo ult is also 8 orbs instead of 6
smthlikeyou11 [#43]i like phoenix over kayo just cuz of the pure fragging potential phoenix has
phoenix flashes r undodgable if thrown correctly, however the limitations r that u can only use them around corners or behind walls
wall might be useful if ur tryna defuse (?) in this pearl spam post plant meta when ur team is dead, a bit of a stretch but its a good entry wall
on paper its not the most plausible (to some people ig?) but once u see it in action u would understand
fragging potential while sacrificing site execs util, you won't be able to take sites better with pheonix than with kayo, kayo flashes are better, many pros have said unanimously that kayo flashes are the best flashes in the game, most undodgeable, of course pheonix flashes can be made undodgeable, but kayo flashes are literally much better generally rather than a case by case basis (situationally any util can provide value, but in general kayo flashes are better)
frag potential when you have jett is not needed, jett is a better fragger and can get out easily.
again situationally any util can be good, you're just nitpicking examples of walls that can be used, doesn't make it any better, it's not something that always provides you good value like kayo knife, wall is literally situationally you can't predict what happens so it's pretty much useless until one round it isn't, the ability sucks let it go. some cover while entering but you can smoke, viper wall whatever much more likely people won't push through a viper wall than a fucking pheonix wall, "to some people" your opinion is literally in the minority, phoenix hasn't been used professional since the start of time unless you call sadhaak pheonix breach comps "good".
1243 [#48]fragging potential while sacrificing site execs util, you won't be able to take sites better with pheonix than with kayo, kayo flashes are better, many pros have said unanimously that kayo flashes are the best flashes in the game, most undodgeable, of course pheonix flashes can be made undodgeable, but kayo flashes are literally much better generally rather than a case by case basis (situationally any util can provide value, but in general kayo flashes are better)
frag potential when you have jett is not needed, jett is a better fragger and can get out easily.
again situationally any util can be good, you're just nitpicking examples of walls that can be used, doesn't make it any better, it's not something that always provides you good value like kayo knife, wall is literally situationally you can't predict what happens so it's pretty much useless until one round it isn't, the ability sucks let it go. some cover while entering but you can smoke, viper wall whatever much more likely people won't push through a viper wall than a fucking pheonix wall, "to some people" your opinion is literally in the minority, phoenix hasn't been used professional since the start of time unless you call sadhaak pheonix breach comps "good".
Yo we aint pro players, we play ranked lmao. No random is going to peek off your flash 100% of the time, even in high immortal games
1243 [#48]fragging potential while sacrificing site execs util, you won't be able to take sites better with pheonix than with kayo, kayo flashes are better, many pros have said unanimously that kayo flashes are the best flashes in the game, most undodgeable, of course pheonix flashes can be made undodgeable, but kayo flashes are literally much better generally rather than a case by case basis (situationally any util can provide value, but in general kayo flashes are better)
frag potential when you have jett is not needed, jett is a better fragger and can get out easily.
again situationally any util can be good, you're just nitpicking examples of walls that can be used, doesn't make it any better, it's not something that always provides you good value like kayo knife, wall is literally situationally you can't predict what happens so it's pretty much useless until one round it isn't, the ability sucks let it go. some cover while entering but you can smoke, viper wall whatever much more likely people won't push through a viper wall than a fucking pheonix wall, "to some people" your opinion is literally in the minority, phoenix hasn't been used professional since the start of time unless you call sadhaak pheonix breach comps "good".
site exec util is debatable, but ya kayo def has the edge here
the whole point of why choose phoenix is to farm the ult orbs and keep chaining ults, in which case he would be better than kayo because he chains faster than kayo ult
im js giving a bit of examples of when u can use the jett ult
a phx ult ever 2-3 rounds is much better than u think
AfterGlow22 [#46]I said Jett is up there didn't I? And I say phoenix is a good agent on the map because his wall is better than a viper wall when used properly on pearl. The orbs are extremely easy to farm here and phoenix's flash provides value in close corner fights, which pearl has a bunch of btw. His molly is really easy to use on this map too. Main reason why he's really good imo is because of his wall, there's a reason why harbour was picked so much on pearl when he was released, phoenix's wall is just the same but smaller basically. Want more proof on why phoenix is a good duelist on this map? Take a look at his pick rate in pro play on the map and you'll see. Oh, and pearl isn't that big btw wtfym.
no way you said phoenix wall> viper wall. again pheonix wall is the most situational ability ever, any ability can be good in certain situations, viper wall is undoubtedly better generally, you can use it more than once, people are much less likely to push a viper wall cuz of the decay, and you can activate it with just a press of a button instead of carefully creating and curving a phoenix (which can be better situationally again), viper wall can just be deployed at the start, no way in hell is viper wall worse than pheonix wall. again pheonix ult is a one of the worst ults in the game, yoru ult is one of the best ones, why not just use your provides much more value as a second duelist.
bro compared harbor wall to pheonix wall OMFG, you are kidding me, b site sight lines are the biggest ones on any map, rotation is much more slower than ascent or icebox, you just said a false thing.
kanyefan4238173 [#51]LMAO the edit 😭
man i couldnt even spell duelist and i got the map name wrong without realizing for 7 whole hours lmfao
in my defense im burnt tf out these days
1243 [#52]no way you said phoenix wall> viper wall. again pheonix wall is the most situational ability ever, any ability can be good in certain situations, viper wall is undoubtedly better generally, you can use it more than once, people are much less likely to push a viper wall cuz of the decay, and you can activate it with just a press of a button instead of carefully creating and curving a phoenix (which can be better situationally again), viper wall can just be deployed at the start, no way in hell is viper wall worse than pheonix wall. again pheonix ult is a one of the worst ults in the game, yoru ult is one of the best ones, why not just use your provides much more value as a second duelist.
bro compared harbor wall to pheonix wall OMFG, you are kidding me, b site sight lines are the biggest ones on any map, rotation is much more slower than ascent or icebox, you just said a false thing.
Yo chill out man wtf we're talking about pixels rn in a man-made fps shooter LMFAO CHILL THE FK OUT. It's really just phoenix better on pearl for me because in ranked, getting kills on your own is your best option to win in soloq, that's all. It's hard to be a team player and play kayo or smth when all these randoms in my servers (APAC) speak different languages as each other most of the time and have awful ping.
Vaaero [#54]Bro made a typo and baited us all
yea on abyss if u dont have jett as ur duelist ur trolling
mayb u can make a case for yoru
smthlikeyou11 [#50]site exec util is debatable, but ya kayo def has the edge here
the whole point of why choose phoenix is to farm the ult orbs and keep chaining ults, in which case he would be better than kayo because he chains faster than kayo ult
im js giving a bit of examples of when u can use the jett ult
a phx ult ever 2-3 rounds is much better than u think
sure, phoenix ult is easier to farm, but it objectively provides less value, ults with less orbs are objectively weaker than ults with more orbs, you can ult spam but that ult can be cleared with little util and a double peek. it doesn't provide any guaranteed value except the info, but you can use it more ig, so it really is pros and cons situation, pros - more ults, cons- ults kinda not good compared to other ults like your kayo, where you can get guaranteed value out of it in any situation (mostly).
i don't think pheonix will be played anytime soon in pro play
AfterGlow22 [#49]Yo we aint pro players, we play ranked lmao. No random is going to peek off your flash 100% of the time, even in high immortal games
yeah i mean I'm specifically talking about pro play so if this thread is just about ranked, you can ignore me, phoenix is selfish so it is one of the best ranked agents, but high immortals can deffo dodge your flashes, my ascendant lobbies can dodge breach and pheonix flashes
1243 [#57]sure, phoenix ult is easier to farm, but it objectively provides less value, ults with less orbs are objectively weaker than ults with more orbs, you can ult spam but that ult can be cleared with little util and a double peek. it doesn't provide any guaranteed value except the info, but you can use it more ig, so it really is pros and cons situation, pros - more ults, cons- ults kinda not good compared to other ults like your kayo, where you can get guaranteed value out of it in any situation (mostly).
i don't think pheonix will be played anytime soon in pro play
usually when u phx ult ur team follows behind so double peeking usually isnt the right play
but yea theres pros and cos
PRX had a top 1 or 2 pearls in the world and they ran phoenix but that doesnt necessarily mean phx>kayo im just saying its perfectly viable
theres some flaws tho this is pretty antistrattable to me in proplay but i can see good coaches making this work
in ranked on the other hand just lock phx and farm bro
lets just agree to disagree and see in pro play
smthlikeyou11 [#56]yea on abyss if u dont have jett as ur duelist ur trolling
mayb u can make a case for yoru
Neon can be played for fast rotate, but I agree that jett is better
smthlikeyou11 [#47]honestly would u take a chance and peek a phoenix ult
best case scenario u waste some util and kill him
worst case scenario u die and he just respawnsthey can be unpredictable but u can be unpredictable too, throw in fakes, etc
and basically all teams play kj instead of cypher on that map, but u can still destroy the trips, like how ppl run neon against cypher on sunset, its perfectly playable
kayo ult is also 8 orbs instead of 6
again situational isn't it, any agent can be the best agent in the game if you the game goes how you want it to, but this is valorant, the opponents can have 20 different abilities in a round, there are 1000s of permutations of what can happen in a round, it's just so unpredictable. to break trips the sentinel must be on the site you're hitting, does that matter to kayo? i think not. you can throw better fakes with your ult and instantly rotate without getting pushed by 3 players after getting killed in your ult. plus guaranteed more info than pheonix ult while throwing fakes you know all agents and their positions on the site.
smthlikeyou11 [#59]usually when u phx ult ur team follows behind so double peeking usually isnt the right play
but yea theres pros and cos
PRX had a top 1 or 2 pearls in the world and they ran phoenix but that doesnt necessarily mean phx>kayo im just saying its perfectly viabletheres some flaws tho this is pretty antistrattable to me in proplay but i can see good coaches making this work
in ranked on the other hand just lock phx and farm brolets just agree to disagree and see in pro play
again you can use heavy util to deny pheonix ult from entering without even peeking, prx was NOT the one of the best teams on pearl, their comp was one of the worst, you know how prx comps are, they suit their players and playing comfort picks, they don't choose better comps because they can't play it, only forsaken can play kayo, maybe davai, but they were on harbor kj jail, the team doesn't have players who can play better agents so they have to play worse agents to fit their style. you said best duelist, pheonix isn't even top 3 on pearl, is it viable maybe, but isn't any agent viable if you try to force it?
no you wont be able to see because it won't be picked as simple as that, unless it's picked by again prx or something because they have to cater to cutiepie jingggg, you just won't see it, I'm willing to bet money if you like, you won't see any good teams run it, teams that are trophy contenders, wanna bet money?
AfterGlow22 [#55]Yo chill out man wtf we're talking about pixels rn in a man-made fps shooter LMFAO CHILL THE FK OUT. It's really just phoenix better on pearl for me because in ranked, getting kills on your own is your best option to win in soloq, that's all. It's hard to be a team player and play kayo or smth when all these randoms in my servers (APAC) speak different languages as each other most of the time and have awful ping.
i didn't want to be aggressive and im sorry if I came onto you, I just hate phoenix, and you said phoenix>jett, that ignited a fire in me, I have always hated phoenix because of how selfish as a agent he is, imo the worst agent in the game rn, also I'm specifically talking about pro play, ignore me if you didn't care, i swear I don't mean to demean you, im sorry if i was annoying
smthlikeyou11 [#39]dont think anyone would risk peeking phx ult tho so ur basically forcing them to play retake
i don't know what region you play but in korea servers people above diamond elo usually just use an util and try to kill phoenix ult as fast as possible, or if they know phoenix will hit site they will play off site heavily spamming entry points and saving util for suffocating retake
ctabust [#42]oh fuck that makes a LOT more sense. yeah for pearl i do agree -> phx>jett
okay give reasonings please im down to stay awake to have a meaningful debate and maybe change my opinion if you give me enough reason
Seo_w [#65]i don't know what region you play but in korea servers people above diamond elo usually just use an util and try to kill phoenix ult as fast as possible, or if they know phoenix will hit site they will play off site heavily spamming entry points and saving util for suffocating retake
that's true, especially in pro play people aren't leaving site because of a fucking phoenix ult, this is the highest level of gameplay, if you think you can take sites using a phoenix ult, then idk what to tell you.
1243 [#64]i didn't want to be aggressive and im sorry if I came onto you, I just hate phoenix, and you said phoenix>jett, that ignited a fire in me, I have always hated phoenix because of how selfish as a agent he is, imo the worst agent in the game rn, also I'm specifically talking about pro play, ignore me if you didn't care, i swear I don't mean to demean you, im sorry if i was annoying
It's alr, happens to me too lol
1243 [#62]again you can use heavy util to deny pheonix ult from entering without even peeking, prx was NOT the one of the best teams on pearl, their comp was one of the worst, you know how prx comps are, they suit their players and playing comfort picks, they don't choose better comps because they can't play it, only forsaken can play kayo, maybe davai, but they were on harbor kj jail, the team doesn't have players who can play better agents so they have to play worse agents to fit their style. you said best duelist, pheonix isn't even top 3 on pearl, is it viable maybe, but isn't any agent viable if you try to force it?
no you wont be able to see because it won't be picked as simple as that, unless it's picked by again prx or something because they have to cater to cutiepie jingggg, you just won't see it, I'm willing to bet money if you like, you won't see any good teams run it, teams that are trophy contenders, wanna bet money?
im not a gambling man but prx was def one of the best teams on pearl, if not prx who were the best teams then?
comp worst maybe yea thats debatable
also i rmbr zellsis on phx but c9 was pretty bad
1243 [#67]that's true, especially in pro play people aren't leaving site because of a fucking phoenix ult, this is the highest level of gameplay, if you think you can take sites using a phoenix ult, then idk what to tell you.
its just better skye dog dont think ive seen a phoenix ever snowball his ult in my games since i was gold
smthlikeyou11 [#69]im not a gambling man but prx was def one of the best teams on pearl, if not prx who were the best teams then?
comp worst maybe yea thats debatable
also i rmbr zellsis on phx but c9 was pretty bad
eg and loud, prx was just one of the best teams itw overall, wouldn't say any map was their strong point as is the case with every iteration of prx, prx does obscure things that only work sometimes because they're prx, also their agent pool is so bad, they have to play other worse comps to compensate.
1243 [#71]eg and loud, prx was just one of the best teams itw overall, wouldn't say any map was their strong point as is the case with every iteration of prx, prx does obscure things that only work sometimes because they're prx, also their agent pool is so bad, they have to play other worse comps to compensate.
PRX beat both LOUD and EG on pearl tho so ur argument saying that they are better on pearl doesnt make sense
smthlikeyou11 [#72]PRX beat both LOUD and EG on pearl tho so ur argument saying that they are better on pearl doesnt make sense
no I'm saying prx as team doesn't have any strong maps they can turn up and win against any team in the world on any map atleast in 2023, eg yoru and loud viper harbor were the best teams consistently and strategically.
1243 [#73]no I'm saying prx as team doesn't have any strong maps they can turn up and win against any team in the world on any map atleast in 2023, eg yoru and loud viper harbor were the best teams consistently and strategically.
prx had a 100% winrate on pearl across 5 maps in champs and won 3/4 times in tokyo, only losing to eg once
AND beat both of the teams that u mentioned that had a better pearl consistenly and strategically?
idk man better and more consistent and losing seems contradictory to me
1243 [#31]yeah you're just wrong, phoenix ult can be killed with one bullet, kayo allows you enter like a king, no abilities is so broken also your kayo can tank op shots for you just like phoenix but the op has to fall back or will be killed unlike phoenix ult, you can just util spam during that period and most likely will get a free site and/or kill one or two players, they have no way of stopping you, phoenix ult doesn't even need util for you to counter, it wastes no util and provides little to no value if the players play properly, phoenix is the worst duelist by far.
no way you said phoenix wall>kayo molly, both are very different abilities and the molly just provides much more value.
kayo flashes are by far the best flashes in the game, they are much harder to dodge and phoenix flashes are mostly selfish which have so little range of motion, like you have to push if you flash revealing your position and you just instantly die if your flash is dodged, kayo flashes can be used from far away, and can be used for site execs more than just flashing around the corner like phoenix flashes, low risks infinitely more returns, you can't compare even a single phoenix util with kayo and say it's better, kayo clears hard.
#21
if you cba reading tldr phoenix>kayo at entrying, dont have an opinion on the comp overall but thats whats being said in this post
Vaaero [#60]Neon can be played for fast rotate, but I agree that jett is better
Jett is S tier and neon is A+ tier, it’s close enough that if you have a duelist who’s better at neon / more comfy it’s not trolling to play the Neon in the duelist slot. Same as Cypher vs KJ in the current ascent meta
lielahh [#12]Phoenix flash is situationally better than KAY/O flash, phoenix wall>kayo molly in terms of usefulness, phoenix molly=kayo knife. Phoenix ult is both cheaper and stronger on entry than KAY/O ult imo.
Be fr
Kayo flash >>> penix flash
Kayo molly > penix molly
Kayo knife >>> penix wall
lielahh [#75]#21
if you cba reading tldr phoenix>kayo at entrying, dont have an opinion on the comp overall but thats whats being said in this post
the post i replied to was you comparing phoenix util with kayo util, i replied to you, I have made other arguments in this post why phoenix is not good, but this post you made was specifically comparing kayo util and phoenix util
if this post was specifically about entering then sure phoenix is a duelist but kayo can setup other better duelists and the entry will be better, also the way you phrased it it seems like you were comparing them generally, maybe im wrong
smthlikeyou11 [#74]prx had a 100% winrate on pearl across 5 maps in champs and won 3/4 times in tokyo, only losing to eg once
AND beat both of the teams that u mentioned that had a better pearl consistenly and strategically?
idk man better and more consistent and losing seems contradictory to me
do you believe prx has strong maps? i mean sure you are winning on it so it is a strong map, but prx as team don't seem to have a traditional strong map like eg fracture or sen split ykwim, that's how I perceive prx anyway
1243 [#79]do you believe prx has strong maps? i mean sure you are winning on it so it is a strong map, but prx as team don't seem to have a traditional strong map like eg fracture or sen split ykwim, that's how I perceive prx anyway
yes i do believe prx has strong maps however it only lasts for a while before they get antistratted
Tadpole3 [#81]Yoru + Jett in ranked. if you start on attack it's even more broken. Abyss has very easy 2 orbs for Attackers so you can just take 1 orb then TP then take another every round. There are some broken TP lineups as well where you can E pretty deep and the gate doesn't fall down.
i made a typo i meant pearl
Tadpole3 [#84]oh. How did you mistyped Pearl as Abyss T.T
i was tired asf and both maps are blue as shit
1243 [#78]the post i replied to was you comparing phoenix util with kayo util, i replied to you, I have made other arguments in this post why phoenix is not good, but this post you made was specifically comparing kayo util and phoenix util
if this post was specifically about entering then sure phoenix is a duelist but kayo can setup other better duelists and the entry will be better, also the way you phrased it it seems like you were comparing them generally, maybe im wrong
I was comparing them but just in the context of this post (discussing an entry role). I also am not a huge fan of KAY/O as a flash agent having played him in “officials” a fair bit, not to say he’s bad but I’m much more of a Breach believer
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