Most Over and Underrated Players

#1

Yuh_aye

Overrated

Florescent and the rest of SR - Franchise worthy Players and Teams aren't getting washed by mocking on Reyna and a laptop player on Astra ON ASCENT
Nats - Nats has won 1 international series after losing to Acend in 2021. His prime was when Hiko played the game.
Chronicle - the best player on here, but he doesn't belong anywhere near the goat conversation. Hasn't been the best player on any team he played with (arguable not even top 3 on fnatic, although i think he is).
Sinatraa - We clown on BabyJ/Inspire for thinking he could be in franchising after playing ranked for 2 years, but for some reason we switch our brains off for sinatraa (he does have more potential tho, ill give him that).
Derke - Most people would put his chamber year as his best run, but he was not top 3 internationally (Yay, Cryo, Ardiss, arguable laz too) or the best regionally (ardiss). During the later fnatic run he was not even the best duelist regionally (sayf was clearly better all while losing everything on lulquid).And it's crystal clear those comparisons to aspas were pure delusion. Currently he's not even the best raze on his own team. He is consistently 3rd-6th ish on his role year to year, which is very impressive, but not more than that.

Underrated

Scream - He could actually be the best player in EMEA if he just focused on duelist and shooting and wasn't convinced he could IGL
Sacy - Most decorated player in the history of the game. Arguably most clutch ever (at the very least he has the most insane ones when the stakes are highest).And people are calling for his (beatiful and bald) head?
Cloud - Everyone knows he's good but some don't understand how good. Pls get this guy on a real team.
Less - Would be higher but everyone acknowledges he's insane. He belongs in the Goat convo alot more than the general public puts him there (people who really know ball do give him his flowers tho)
Spaz - This guy is up next on smokes just look him up.

Edit: I should mention the Criteria is their Ability vs the Popular Perception

#2

ShaoFeng

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Less is not underrated 💀
Chronicle and nats might be borderline underrated

And everyone knows sr farms gc only

#3

destroylonely

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Less in underrated when he’s been called the best player itw numerous times?

#17

Yuh_aye

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Compare how many times you hear aspas is the goat to how many times you hear it about Less. it might be close to 50-1 ratio even though they both have at least comparably strong cases

#22

Ausam

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its cause of a role thing. U hear aspas more cause his role is made for that and he dominates that role. Its easier for aspas to show how good he is compared to less and no I don't think he is the best player ,he is right behind aspas tho

#29

Sushi_

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Definitely disagree, Less is very well rated and usually one of the only non-duelists alongside Chronicle who is consistently brought up in goat convos, u might be hearing Aspas's name more often recently due to his bonkers performance in Americas this split but all time and generally I think Less definitely gets his flowers

#55

Skarz

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how does that make him underrated i dont think you understand what either word means lmfao.

#4

TheAqif

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nats is not overrated, he's always ben one of the consistent players on his teams
even if his team is shit

#14

Yuh_aye

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We are now close to 2 years into Franchising. Since then, he has a record of 1-5 (beat EDG) at international events, with his best rating being 1.12 (Sao Paolo)
For comparison Xeppa has exactly as many wins 1-1 (beat PRX) with a rating of 1.12 (Sao Paolo).
Now obviously I don't think xeppa is as good at nats. But alot of people have Nats as a top 10-15 player in the world which is ridiculous. He has been overrated for long time now, at a certain point you have to start winning for us to put you in that calibre.

#15

sentinelmain377

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"his team is shit"

#33

Yuh_aye

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We can't be putting players who have done close to nothing internationally for years in top ten lists. Its not because I think he's bad. I don't see Sayf or Cloud in top ten lists and don't bat an eye even though I think very highly of them. But for some reason people treat Nats as an exception to this.

#37

cloudberry

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Because he's that good at the game. Simply put

#48

Er3ngenes1s

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We are now close to 2 years into Franchising. Since then, he has a record of 1-5 (beat EDG) at international events, with his best rating being 1.12 (Sao Paolo)
For comparison Xeppa has exactly as many wins 1-1 (beat PRX) with a rating of 1.12 (Sao Paolo).
Now obviously I don't think xeppa is as good at nats. But alot of people have Nats as a top 10-15 player in the world which is ridiculous. He has been overrated for long time now, at a certain point you have to start winning for us to put you in that calibre.

u r a complete moron now holy fuck. ever saw Liquid play as a team? he has to always deal with 1v9 in the server with his disabled teammates. look at his individual scores last year and this year. its either sayf and nAts or keiko and nAts always top fragging. back when he was on gambit, his teammates would set him up for lurk plays and get his timings. but liquid's system is different now

#56

Yuh_aye

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He played with Jammpi who is a good player. He played with Sayf who is a really good player. Soulcas was below average but not as bad as people gave him shit for. Redgar i'll give you. Mf's act like he played with spike rush players. That team should be beating team secret every time. Also YOU clearly didn't watch Liquid play. They set him up for lurks all the time. Go watch any haven match there was plenty of rounds they would insert him into A short or C long then go make noise elsewhere and he would lurk with it. It just wouldn't work half the time because what was a team-busting strat in 2021 isn't anymore as the level of play develops. For example, go watch EG vs Liquid haven round 10. He sits outside C long while his team hits B, they trade unfavorably and end up 1 man down. Meanwhile Nats lurks up C long and if this was 2021 he probably gets 1-2 people off-guard in C link and turns the tide of the round. But EG was proactive in the midround and pushed A and his lurk ends up with no value. They end up winning the round due to gunfights not due to the value of the lurk. The very next round (11). Nats once again gets a free lurk due to his team pushing A, this time through garage all the way through CT spawn, but EG once again converts off the numbers and Com is prepared and punishes the lurk. It should have been a flawless but boostio misses an ez kill on jammpi while the round is basically over.

#61

Er3ngenes1s

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That team should be beating team secret every time

but they didnt u moron 💀 watched lock in ? Both Jamppi and soulcas were inconsistent all the time especially soulcas. the only other player apart from nAts who stood out is sayf. both him and nAts were always bailing them out in situations and winning them round and even maps. and even though sometimes his lurks doesnt work, he still frags up to make up for it. just look at his individual stats last year and this year too. he occasionally has off games but most of the time he is the most consistent player in his team

#64

Yuh_aye

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Let me ask you a question. Where in your top 10 list of players in the world right now is Keznit? He's clearly the best player on kru and bails them out in situations and even maps. His stats were basically only second to aspas this year. Is he in your top 10 players right now? or do you acknowledge that you don't get into that status if your team is missing lans and you're not winning the matches in the lans that you do get to, even if we all know you're a really good player. Now unless you tell me which rank keznit is in your top 10 list, you have to tell me why Nats doesnt have these rules apply to him.

#65

Er3ngenes1s

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The reason why players like keznit and oxy who are insanely good and are not in the top 10 players list rn is cuz their team wasnt good enough to qualify for international events. its that simple. people will generally have their top10 filled with players who qualified for international events and not the star fragging players who have been bailing them in multiple instances and yet their team is bad to convert those plays into winning rounds that are done by keznit and oxy. nAts is also one of em. he is also being dragged down by his team which prevents them from qualifying international events. Otheriwse it would have been a different story if they were able to fully utilise nAts's plays and would probably help them qualify for international events. Maybe then u would see people having nAts in their top 10

#68

Yuh_aye

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I 100% agree and i'm glad you finally understand. Now you can see why he's so high on the list. For example, a thread from just three days ago where the most upvoted comment says that he's the best senti in the world RIGHT NOW.

https://www.vlr.gg/357911/world-s-best-senti-at-the-moment

#69

Er3ngenes1s

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So u do agree that he is one of the best sentinels in the game if not the best sentinel in the game if his team wasnt trash and would be qualifying for international events right?

#71

Yuh_aye

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I agree he's one of but having him as THE best in the world right now is delusion and drugs, it's clearly meteor. There is no rational way you can have him as no1 until he can start winning games and putting up numbers internationally (ie: get off lulquid). Until then he can't even be near top 3 senti lists unless he is literally putting up wilt chamberlain stats, let alone top 10 player lists.

continue thread →

#5

Klaw69

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Less is not underrated at all. Who tf even overrates Derke?

#6

Yuh_aye

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After Lock in there were threads saying Derke is the goat of val full stop

#23

Ausam

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tru.Derke is A tier at best, not aspas level

#50

Er3ngenes1s

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yes because he was the only other duelist at the time to challenging him during and after lock in

#58

Yuh_aye

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yay was still considered the best player in the world at that time, above both of them. This is revisionist history.

#59

Er3ngenes1s

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at that time

during and after lock in ?

#78

Yuh_aye

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Yes and it wasn't controversial. Lets go back in the time to the famous "role issues" debacle

https://youtu.be/n6_6SK9BsR8?si=NhxKM66iD7udlk9g

Title of the vid explicitly calls him the best player.

YT comment 1: Yay is so good that the only thing stopping him from going pro is finding an org that can afford him
YT comment 2: Imagine being the goat and losing your job because the org you trusted is broke
YT comment 3: DSG just signed Yay.. dropping all his team, Yay is expected to 1v5 M80, 13-0, all 69 maps
YT comment 4 : Imagine being the goat and losing your job because the org you trusted is broke

And there are countless more examples like this - reddit threads, vlr comments, yt comments, tweets, etc.
This was the perception of yay at that time

#83

Er3ngenes1s

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this is another kind of delusion. holy f*ck. u do know that player's fans love saying good things to their players no?
like

DSG just signed Yay.. dropping all his team, Yay is expected to 1v5 M80, 13-0, all 69 maps

who would in right mind say that?

#85

Yuh_aye

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There's two options here.

You truly suck at reading comprehension and social cues and don't understand what is meant by that comment
You know that yay was perceived as the goat and the best player in the world at that time, and you don't want to admit that you know it, so you are pretending to take that comment 100% literally.

I believe it's #2

#7

thenutoriousPRO

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be honest u watched spaz play once

#9

Yuh_aye

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i watched this guy bully top t2 and franchised pros in a ten man months ago and followed him ever since

#8

XtraChrxs

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this is certainly a list on the vlr forums

#10

OkOkay

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florescent not overrated

#11

Yuh_aye

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There is a sizable portion of the Valorant Community which thinks Flor/SR deserve franchise offers

#27

OkOkay

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you think icy is better than florescent?

#32

heavensentsaint

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yea ?? lol

#34

thenutoriousPRO

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stop lying dude
flor has arguably the best mechanics of any player in the world

#35

Yuh_aye

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This comment is exactly why Flor is #1 on the list btw

#36

thenutoriousPRO

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flor is rated highly and is that good

#87

Convoy

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flor use your real vlr account please

#39

heavensentsaint

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didn’t he get sat down by t2 players

#44

Dhrom49

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flair

#66

m1kah

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GAME CHANGERS…are you slow??

#28

thenutoriousPRO

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flor def does

#31

Yuh_aye

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Edit: I misunderstood the comment

#13

tempacc123

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he's overrated af

#18

charleser

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Florescent is overrated as shit

#12

number1_ScreaM_fan

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i just want scream back in tier 1🥹

#16

localkoolkid

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Ange1 underrated (He is the GOAT)

#19

Penqu1N

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Sayf. He's always played on shit teams, but is consistently a demon. Put him on a team with a decent amount of support and coaching, and people would say hes the goat.

#25

Jihyeok

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Imagine FNC Sayf

#20

smthlikeyou11

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I think sacy is a little bit underrated just because some people rate him WAY lower than he should be
hes not the best player mechanically, and hes past his prime, but he gets his job done
one thing i dont understand is why people still call him clutch though. he has a 11% clutch rate during split 1 which isnt bad but isnt absurd by any means
He was also the LOWEST rated player on SEN in terms of clutch rate during masters madrid, and the 11th lowest clutch rate out of 40 players at madrid.

#24

Yuh_aye

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Clutch rate is kinda a shit metric. This maybe controversial but i genuinely think the eye test is better. That stat doesnt take into account roles and situations. Alot of people who are gonna end up in 1v2's and 3's are gonna have a really low rate compared to people who end up in 1v1's. For example, im pretty sure Boaster had the highest clutch rate in the world for some time while EVERYONE knows Leo is the clutch god of that team. The reason is probably that he ends up in alot of 1v1's late in rounds where a guy is already dinked 140 by leo or chronicle or something and it's a relatively easier cleanup.

#26

smthlikeyou11

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yea this is a fair take, but eye tests in terms of clutch rate would nearly be imopssible to compare and stuff
but purely from eye test alone i wouldnt say sacy that THAT clutch tbh, he has his moments but his clutches arent outstanding

#21

cleaned

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sacy most decorated ? chronicle has 3 trophies

#47

_Esdeath_

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masters + champs >>> two masters and lock in

2022 champs is probably the highest level of competition we have ever seen, plus Lock In isn't a real trophy lets be real. You could say Chron has 2.5 trophies.

#51

Er3ngenes1s

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He had to defeat the former world champions anyway in bo5 grand final. so yes it is a real trophy acc to riot even though u deny it. that tournament had 32 teams. plus, madrid was a 8 team tourney

#57

Yuh_aye

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It was a pre-season event to show off the teams in franchising. That's why there was no qualifiers (32 teams) and why it was single-elim. The trophy breaking is the cherry on top.

#60

Er3ngenes1s

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Still doesnt take away the fact that they had to beat 2022 world champions in 2023 in a bo5 grand final. also doesnt take away the fact for riot calling this an official vct event

#75

Yuh_aye

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No, actually they (barely) beat a team that had the core of the 2022 world champions, but with a new roster, in a preseason event which was, true enough an official vct event, but conspicuously wasn't named "Masters" or "Champions" like every event before it, after it, and in the announced future (I wonder why that is? What makes it different from all the rest?).

#77

Er3ngenes1s

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still beat LOUD who were 2022 world champions. that itself is enough of a credibility. added to it, riot did say it was the first event of franchise so they had to come up with a different format and single elim is the hardest route in vct ever to reach a grand final and eventually winning it is a cherry on top for the rising the stakes of the matches

#79

Yuh_aye

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still beat LOUD who were 2022 world champions. that itself is enough of a credibility

No, thats just you wishing it was.

riot did say it was the first event of franchise so they had to come up with a different format

Yeah, we know that, thats because it was meant to be an event to show off the teams in franchising, which is why they were all invited, which is also why they had to make it single elim otherwise it would take forever, cuz in no real prestigious event would you just invite every team with no qualification process.

and single elim is the hardest route in vct ever to reach a grand final

Maybe the hardest, but definitely the one with the least competitive integrity. It's why some teams that sucked all year looked good (geng, navi, leviathan), and vice versa (prx).

#82

Er3ngenes1s

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No, thats just you wishing it was.

how tf is that wish? loud being former world champions being defeated by fnc in lock in grand final is a wish?

thats because it was meant to be an event to show off the teams in franchising, which is why they were all invited, which is also why they had to make it single elim otherwise it would take forever, cuz in no real prestigious event would you just invite every team with no qualification process.

this kind of bullshit was not said by any kind of riot employee nor did anna donlon say it. showing off teams? tf is that? they can show off by only performing. Riot says this clearly and whatever u guys make shit up is still invalid. no matter how u twist it

Maybe the hardest, but definitely the one with the least competitive integrity. It's why some teams that sucked all year looked good (geng, navi, leviathan), and vice versa (prx).

FNC and loud didnt look bad all year. DRX who was in top four looked good too. an in terms competitive integrity, riot has always cared about it alot. there would be no reason to put that bracket out without reviewing its competitive integrity

#84

Yuh_aye

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loud being former world champions being defeated by fnc in lock in grand final is a wish?

LMAO. Not only was it a different roster, they replaced their two best performers for rookies.
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1015/valorant-champions-2022

If after Tokyo Fnatic lost Leo and Alfa and some random team like vitality or something beat them would you be saying that they beat the champs?

this kind of bullshit was not said by any kind of riot employee nor did anna donlon say it. showing off teams? tf is that?

https://valorantesports.com/news/meet-the-teams-of-vct-lock-in/en-us

From Riot's official website for valorant Esports, a long article dedicated to introducing and showing off every team and player, and their storylines.

in terms competitive integrity, riot has always cared about it alot

LOL. Single Elim will never have an ounce of competitive integrity. People (rightfully) clowned on the playoff qual format for shanghai for this reason (Navi deserved that spot and we all know it). Now imagine an entire tourney like that. KC looked promising based off lock-in, which tells you everything you need to know.

continue thread →

#30

Enquiemmm

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Chronicle and Derke overrated? lmao

#38

Itsover

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nAts has disabled players on his team 2 years in a row, what do you want him to do? Tell soulcas to check A short first at 11-6 vs NRG instead of calling "site clear" and getting whole team killed?

#40

Penqu1N

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Hot take. nAts wasn’t the best player on liquid last year or this year, and is inconsistent this year. He likely goes to a new team

#41

Serath

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Ange1 underrated, people should stop clowning on him when he's the goat IGL.

#42

Witzzz

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Sinatra has so much money that he doesn't care about working hard in eSports... people don't like to work hard when they have life easy

#43

Epicgamer69

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actual good list wtf

#67

m1kah

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Stop baiting 💀

#45

Er3ngenes1s

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Bait or mental retardation

Call it 💀

#46

Average_NA_fan

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blud snuck in s0cy

#49

babysasuke

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overrated list slaps

underrated list has some misses

#52

Aayan

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I was reading this thinking “ok okay some of these are reasonable and have some logic, but I disagree with a few but I can see why you think that”.

then I got to the underrated list and got hit in the face with scream. 💀💀💀💀💀

#54

Aayan

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WAIT I DIDNT EVEN SEE LESS 😭😭😭😭

#63

Er3ngenes1s

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that guy is not real man 💀 dogshit list

#53

snowdivine

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who tf is overrating nats, chron or derke? bro got these takes from his ass

#62

Er3ngenes1s

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that guy in on methamphetamines i bet

#72

Yuh_aye

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https://www.vlr.gg/357911/world-s-best-senti-at-the-moment

A thread from just a few days ago where the most upvoted comment is that Nats is the best senti in the world, over Meteor, Benjyfishy, Yetujey, Alfajer, Leaf, all of them.

#70

Lucrix

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ngl sacy is not the most clutch/has the most insane clutches. i may be bias but geng is SO good in the clutch, along with bang(mainly 2022 bang, but he's showing sparks now of the past)

#74

Dcoo99

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ahhh yes. Derke's chamber year was better than the year he won 2 trophies for sure. Horrible list

#80

Yuh_aye

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Rank the best players on Fnatic during Derke's chamber year vs the later run.

Here's a few references that might come in handy
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1014/valorant-champions-tour-stage-2-masters-copenhagen
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1015/valorant-champions-2022

-----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1188/champions-tour-2023-lock-in-s-o-paulo
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1657/valorant-champions-2023

I'm looking forward to reading your response!

#90

Dcoo99

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??? this is like saying Karl Malone or George Gervin are top 4 NBA players of all time because they scored a lot even though they never won a championship. Stats aren't everything and I can tell you're one of those plat players that always blames your teammates for losing because they don't frag well. Obviously his stats are going to be better when hes playing a sentinel going for trade frags rather than entrying for his team. Why do you think Leo is so high in the ratings? Obviously Leo is insane, but he has mastered how to trade his teammates. Kills/stats arent everything lil guy.

#91

Yuh_aye

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this is like saying Karl Malone or George Gervin are top 4 NBA players of all time because they scored a lot

No, this is like saying Karl Malone's prime was during the 90s vs the 2000s, and pointing to the stats to back that up.

Obviously his stats are going to be better when hes playing a sentinel going for trade frags rather than entrying for his team. Why do you think Leo is so high in the ratings? Obviously Leo is insane, but he has mastered how to trade his teammates. Kills/stats arent everything lil guy

If we were looking at ACS this would be valid... however.... https://www.vlr.gg/160667/vlr-gg-player-rating-explained

I can tell you're one of those plat players

https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/dcoo%23iykyk/overview?season=all

💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

#81

Asunas_Chinese_Teacher

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Put Asuna in both underrated and overrated, he's an anomaly.

#88

Convoy

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Cloud is literally Leo on Guild

#89

lakpx

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nats is not overrated