Leo is that guy

#1

donut2612

Leo's average rating across the entire year is higher than demon1's rating during his mvp performance at champs.

Leo average in 2023 - 1.24
Demon1 MVP at Champions - 1..23

#2

jonny05

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just business

#69

kristof

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technically 1.25 cuz you have to round it up.

yay's best year: 1.20
tenz's best year: 1.24
leo's best year: 1.25

#3

bonkashi

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all in a days work

#4

winae29

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rating merchant tbh

#6

bonkashi

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your team got blown up by a four month old chinese roster

#12

Braedo

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Your team got 1 win at an international event the entire year

#23

bonkashi

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yeah and it was the chinese team that beat the chinese team that beat you 🤷

#43

bonkashi

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i love that you can tell when its morning in america by how quickly sane takes start getting downvoted

#51

yukky

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USA 🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅

time for freedom to come back

#67

Congo1

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and even more downvotes for things the american majority doesnt want to hear

#71

andreziN

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cmon guys let's watch two clowns fighting to see who is worse

#5

siphonval

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with stats Leo > Demon1
even with eye test Leo > Demon1

#7

ZettGundam

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dam leo's that good ? holy bro is both the head of esports and a pro player

#8

alecksdesk

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demon1 was playing in the most competitive region

leo farmed rating by baiting his teammate in a farmer region

cant compare the two

#9

MIRACL3

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flair

#11

starxito_sike

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yes he farmed teams at lock//in and tokyo, was doing it at champs too

#31

alecksdesk

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not saying he didnt

im saying his AVERAGE rating is inflated from farming shitmea bots in regular season

#38

Gyoppkyg

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The only way Leo’s rating was inflated by playing in a “farmers region” was by decreasing it.

#39

alecksdesk

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decreasing it by playing bot teams like KC, BBL and KOI? yeah... not buying it.

#45

Gyoppkyg

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Yeah Leo’s rating against those 3 teams were 1.22, 1.26 and 1.09 respectively. All in all his average rating was brought down by playing those teams.

#46

alecksdesk

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well then he is a fruad

d4v4i would go 3.00 rating at the very least vs those bots

#73

general_gawk47

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i think alecks would probs hate u ngl

#24

capital_d_colon

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when you find out he also averages a 1.24 in international events this year.

#48

Mortadelo

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EMEA's top 4 and 5 have proven this event to be much better than America's 4 and 3. So the fact that your 1 and 2 are better than out 1 2 and 3 does not make the region as a whole better

#10

MuZe

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I think it's more impressive Demon1 did all that in just months.
Also, Leo and Fnatic just farmed EMEA bots like KC, TH, BBL, and KOI in regular season so this is somewhat skewed

#14

starxito_sike

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what about lock//in and tokyo? bro was mvp at lock//in and almost got it for tokyo while being an initiator player, best player for fnc at champs, we disregard all those ofc

#32

1cameh

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lock in isnt representative of the year at all lol

#22

mrGoudas

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Leo would get the same stats vs shitmericas teams like sen 100t c9 mibr furia lev nrg kru

#42

Gyoppkyg

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Ah yes, Leo’s avarage rating of 1.20 in the Emea regular season brought up his average so much that it’s skewed. Without that 1.20 rating his average rating would be nowhere near 1.24 across the entire year.

#13

Barss

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demon1 wasnt playing against t3 teams in his home region

#15

starxito_sike

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bro's team lost to a 4 month old chinese roster not once but TWICE and is talking shit

#17

Barss

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nrg were the biggest frauds, I ain't delusional like you

#18

Asuna_Yuuki

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We can’t be critical of another team just because our team sucks?

#21

Okoretro

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"demon1 wasnt playing against t3 teams in his home region"

he was playing againdt BOTRG 😂

#29

Barss

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he was playing against LOUD, the team you be having nightmares about lil buddy

#35

Okoretro

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wow so scary buddy

#63

Asuna_Yuuki

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But he was playing them when NRG were good

#65

Okoretro

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NRG was never that good to begin with 💀

#72

Asuna_Yuuki

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NRG was better than every EMEA team except FNC

#16

Asuna_Yuuki

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Obviously

Bro was farming EMEA bots in regular season

#19

FNEGGS

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too bad he shares his name with Leo Laria

#20

moatz

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Demon1 - 1 champions trophy / Leo - 0 champions trophies

#25

KxngSolomon

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fluke win like acend

#30

noitaNehT

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Eg came second the tournament before 😆

#26

Yistyy

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This is such a dogshit comparison. If demon1 was in emea his rating would be like 1.6+ because of how easy it is to farm shitmea bots in this tier 10 region

#27

mrGoudas

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Optic was very good at farming emea teams right?

#28

Yistyy

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How is that related at all... I'm saying the emea region has been very bad post-franchising

#34

capital_d_colon

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Leo also has a 1.24 rating across the international events this year.
So what now?

#33

vipermommydomme

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"Demon1 had a lower rating (by 0.01) against literally the best and most qualified teams in the world than LEO did against dogshit emea teams"

#36

edgno1fan

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'best and most qualified'...
ya'll lost to kru (who lost to giants) and billy gaming

#37

CryoZanderDerrekEnjoyer

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As if leo didnt play the best teams aswell in lock in and tokyo lmao bozo statement

#41

vipermommydomme

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Sort his stats by EMEA league vs international events and you will see

#44

Gyoppkyg

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If you had done that you would have seen that Leo performed worse in the Emea League than he did internationally this year

#47

mrGoudas

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His name is vipermommy 💀 ☠️ 💀 you can tell he has severe brain damage

#40

babysasuke

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Leo is a stat padder that can use his util well to set up carries, he can't impact frag like demon1, and his util usage pales in comparison to Ethan/c0m

He's not bad, but his stocks are super inflated

But his rating 🤓

Send him to NA and he'll crumble against real competition like every fraudulent EU import before him.

#49

Mortadelo

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He does bait quite a few. But common give it to him, if you were to bait your teammates you wouldn't achieve that

#52

babysasuke

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I wouldn't even call him a baiter, he plays his role fine

He's a good player, in the conversation for top 5 initiators, but he's nowhere near an MVP candidate or best player in the world

and yes Mortadelo, I do not play Valorant as a full time job, obviously he would outperform me.

#53

Mortadelo

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I didn't mean it as "oh you go play". I meant it as no matter how much someone thinks he stat pads, to have those stats the amount of talent required is insane

#54

babysasuke

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Stats are also inflated when you spend most of the season stomping games, his team was pretty much uncontested for the whole year until Champions

Check his ratings in losses:
https://www.vlr.gg/213198/fnatic-vs-team-liquid-champions-tour-2023-emea-league-gf/?game=130956&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/248270/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/248282/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-lr3

Doesn't hit his average in a single one of them

Not saying that its his fault they lose or he played worse, but losing maps leads to lower ratings and Fnatic spent most of the year just never losing. Stats alone should really only be half of the battle when determining how good or impactful a player is.

#55

Mortadelo

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I mean ofc, loosing 3 games in a whole year helps the stats that's fair

#56

capital_d_colon

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Atleast for Leo it makes sense as a support player and the way fnatic operate.
Fnc have pretty strict and set in stone roles compared to a lot of other teams.

The games that fnc struggle in you will often see chronicle and Leo having "low performances".

If site hits are unsuccessful they wouldn't get the rating value from assists etc.

#59

babysasuke

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yeah thats exactly the point I'm making, the rating doesn't really matter

He's a fine player, he does his job, but he's not the lifeline of the team and his performance is not going to make or break a Championship run

Fnatic has all the pieces, they just need an IGL and support staff that knows how to use them properly

#60

capital_d_colon

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I mean he is still very influential.
A lot of the rounds he acts a closer. If he fails to do that correctly fnc have lost the round.

they just need an IGL

You can stop with the boaster agenda. He is the piece that fnatic needs.
His midrounding has even improved a lot from last year.

You could argue that fnatic should've been more experimental or more prepared to take risks last year.
but its a hard middle ground to find, Loud tried that at tokyo and look what happened.

#61

Okoretro

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no need to argue with a known baiter

#62

babysasuke

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I'm not even saying Leo is bad or needs to get replaced.

I'm saying that calling him the best player of 2023 based on rating is asinine.

And its not a "Boaster agenda", its an objective take that Fnatic constantly underperforms and he and mini are the only constants. 10 rosters built around Boaster and Derke and the max the team has ever looked good is 4 months.

Build roster -> Honeymoon -> Crumble under pressure -> rebuild roster

never ends.

#64

capital_d_colon

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I mean in 2021 they lost the grand finals of Reykjavik, didn't qualify for Berlin.
Still kept the same roster and won their groups at champs.

2022:
Braveaf situation caused another rebuild.
The 2022 rebuild led to boaster moving onto a supportive controller role and mistic onto what was a firepower role. Since it didn't make much sense at the time to have boaster occupy what was a fragging role for the team.
Magnum simply didn't fit the chamber meta being a pure sentinel/lurker player. A chamber player was needed, or a player that could play the entry role and allow derke to play chamber.

Towards the end of 2022 it was shown that mistic did not fit the new role, he was much better on controller.

Rebuilding mid-season often causes issues down the line as you cannot properly fix all the issues, due to lack of options and roster lock limitations.
With the talent available in the emea market it made sense to pick up Leo and Chronicle.

There's a 3 year sample size with 2022 being disrupted due to the necessity to rebuild due to Braveaf

continue thread →

#50

dayyaan1

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Baiting merchant who farmed noob teams most the year

Unlike chad1 who was thrown on a dying team half way through the season and made them world champions

#57

orthoboy

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leo is baiter/trader(he trades those baits) pro of valorant and plays with perfect positioning and demon1 is a AI robot with 41% HS just gets into server and kills the opponents and imo rating of initiator cant be compared to duelist/controller flex.

#58

yawnster

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He's basically Hiko but it works unlike Hiko

#70

lwrrzzs

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if u using vlr.gg rating i cant agree with you
cause its shittest rating i have ever seen