Leo's average rating across the entire year is higher than demon1's rating during his mvp performance at champs.
Leo average in 2023 - 1.24
Demon1 MVP at Champions - 1..23
4
Leo is that guy
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alecksdesk [#8]demon1 was playing in the most competitive region
leo farmed rating by baiting his teammate in a farmer region
cant compare the two
flair
alecksdesk [#8]demon1 was playing in the most competitive region
leo farmed rating by baiting his teammate in a farmer region
cant compare the two
yes he farmed teams at lock//in and tokyo, was doing it at champs too
bonkashi [#6]your team got blown up by a four month old chinese roster
Your team got 1 win at an international event the entire year
MuZe [#10]I think it's more impressive Demon1 did all that in just months.
Also, Leo and Fnatic just farmed EMEA bots like KC, TH, BBL, and KOI in regular season so this is somewhat skewed
what about lock//in and tokyo? bro was mvp at lock//in and almost got it for tokyo while being an initiator player, best player for fnc at champs, we disregard all those ofc
Barss [#13]demon1 wasnt playing against t3 teams in his home region
bro's team lost to a 4 month old chinese roster not once but TWICE and is talking shit
starxito_sike [#15]bro's team lost to a 4 month old chinese roster not once but TWICE and is talking shit
nrg were the biggest frauds, I ain't delusional like you
starxito_sike [#15]bro's team lost to a 4 month old chinese roster not once but TWICE and is talking shit
We can’t be critical of another team just because our team sucks?
Asuna_Yuuki [#18]We can’t be critical of another team just because our team sucks?
"demon1 wasnt playing against t3 teams in his home region"
he was playing againdt BOTRG 😂
MuZe [#10]I think it's more impressive Demon1 did all that in just months.
Also, Leo and Fnatic just farmed EMEA bots like KC, TH, BBL, and KOI in regular season so this is somewhat skewed
Leo would get the same stats vs shitmericas teams like sen 100t c9 mibr furia lev nrg kru
Braedo [#12]Your team got 1 win at an international event the entire year
yeah and it was the chinese team that beat the chinese team that beat you 🤷
alecksdesk [#8]demon1 was playing in the most competitive region
leo farmed rating by baiting his teammate in a farmer region
cant compare the two
when you find out he also averages a 1.24 in international events this year.
Yistyy [#26]This is such a dogshit comparison. If demon1 was in emea his rating would be like 1.6+ because of how easy it is to farm shitmea bots in this tier 10 region
Optic was very good at farming emea teams right?
mrGoudas [#27]Optic was very good at farming emea teams right?
How is that related at all... I'm saying the emea region has been very bad post-franchising
Okoretro [#21]"demon1 wasnt playing against t3 teams in his home region"
he was playing againdt BOTRG 😂
he was playing against LOUD, the team you be having nightmares about lil buddy
starxito_sike [#11]yes he farmed teams at lock//in and tokyo, was doing it at champs too
not saying he didnt
im saying his AVERAGE rating is inflated from farming shitmea bots in regular season
starxito_sike [#14]what about lock//in and tokyo? bro was mvp at lock//in and almost got it for tokyo while being an initiator player, best player for fnc at champs, we disregard all those ofc
lock in isnt representative of the year at all lol
Yistyy [#26]This is such a dogshit comparison. If demon1 was in emea his rating would be like 1.6+ because of how easy it is to farm shitmea bots in this tier 10 region
Leo also has a 1.24 rating across the international events this year.
So what now?
Barss [#29]he was playing against LOUD, the team you be having nightmares about lil buddy
wow so scary buddy
vipermommydomme [#33]"Demon1 had a lower rating (by 0.01) against literally the best and most qualified teams in the world than LEO did against dogshit emea teams"
'best and most qualified'...
ya'll lost to kru (who lost to giants) and billy gaming
vipermommydomme [#33]"Demon1 had a lower rating (by 0.01) against literally the best and most qualified teams in the world than LEO did against dogshit emea teams"
As if leo didnt play the best teams aswell in lock in and tokyo lmao bozo statement
alecksdesk [#31]not saying he didnt
im saying his AVERAGE rating is inflated from farming shitmea bots in regular season
The only way Leo’s rating was inflated by playing in a “farmers region” was by decreasing it.
Gyoppkyg [#38]The only way Leo’s rating was inflated by playing in a “farmers region” was by decreasing it.
decreasing it by playing bot teams like KC, BBL and KOI? yeah... not buying it.
Leo is a stat padder that can use his util well to set up carries, he can't impact frag like demon1, and his util usage pales in comparison to Ethan/c0m
He's not bad, but his stocks are super inflated
But his rating 🤓
Send him to NA and he'll crumble against real competition like every fraudulent EU import before him.
CryoZanderDerrekEnjoyer [#37]As if leo didnt play the best teams aswell in lock in and tokyo lmao bozo statement
Sort his stats by EMEA league vs international events and you will see
MuZe [#10]I think it's more impressive Demon1 did all that in just months.
Also, Leo and Fnatic just farmed EMEA bots like KC, TH, BBL, and KOI in regular season so this is somewhat skewed
Ah yes, Leo’s avarage rating of 1.20 in the Emea regular season brought up his average so much that it’s skewed. Without that 1.20 rating his average rating would be nowhere near 1.24 across the entire year.
bonkashi [#23]yeah and it was the chinese team that beat the chinese team that beat you 🤷
i love that you can tell when its morning in america by how quickly sane takes start getting downvoted
vipermommydomme [#41]Sort his stats by EMEA league vs international events and you will see
If you had done that you would have seen that Leo performed worse in the Emea League than he did internationally this year
alecksdesk [#39]decreasing it by playing bot teams like KC, BBL and KOI? yeah... not buying it.
Yeah Leo’s rating against those 3 teams were 1.22, 1.26 and 1.09 respectively. All in all his average rating was brought down by playing those teams.
Gyoppkyg [#45]Yeah Leo’s rating against those 3 teams were 1.22, 1.26 and 1.09 respectively. All in all his average rating was brought down by playing those teams.
well then he is a fruad
d4v4i would go 3.00 rating at the very least vs those bots
Gyoppkyg [#44]If you had done that you would have seen that Leo performed worse in the Emea League than he did internationally this year
His name is vipermommy 💀 ☠️ 💀 you can tell he has severe brain damage
alecksdesk [#8]demon1 was playing in the most competitive region
leo farmed rating by baiting his teammate in a farmer region
cant compare the two
EMEA's top 4 and 5 have proven this event to be much better than America's 4 and 3. So the fact that your 1 and 2 are better than out 1 2 and 3 does not make the region as a whole better
babysasuke [#40]Leo is a stat padder that can use his util well to set up carries, he can't impact frag like demon1, and his util usage pales in comparison to Ethan/c0m
He's not bad, but his stocks are super inflated
But his rating 🤓
Send him to NA and he'll crumble against real competition like every fraudulent EU import before him.
He does bait quite a few. But common give it to him, if you were to bait your teammates you wouldn't achieve that
bonkashi [#43]i love that you can tell when its morning in america by how quickly sane takes start getting downvoted
USA 🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅
time for freedom to come back
Mortadelo [#49]He does bait quite a few. But common give it to him, if you were to bait your teammates you wouldn't achieve that
I wouldn't even call him a baiter, he plays his role fine
He's a good player, in the conversation for top 5 initiators, but he's nowhere near an MVP candidate or best player in the world
and yes Mortadelo, I do not play Valorant as a full time job, obviously he would outperform me.
babysasuke [#52]I wouldn't even call him a baiter, he plays his role fine
He's a good player, in the conversation for top 5 initiators, but he's nowhere near an MVP candidate or best player in the world
and yes Mortadelo, I do not play Valorant as a full time job, obviously he would outperform me.
I didn't mean it as "oh you go play". I meant it as no matter how much someone thinks he stat pads, to have those stats the amount of talent required is insane
Mortadelo [#53]I didn't mean it as "oh you go play". I meant it as no matter how much someone thinks he stat pads, to have those stats the amount of talent required is insane
Stats are also inflated when you spend most of the season stomping games, his team was pretty much uncontested for the whole year until Champions
Check his ratings in losses:
https://www.vlr.gg/213198/fnatic-vs-team-liquid-champions-tour-2023-emea-league-gf/?game=130956&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/248270/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/248282/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-lr3
Doesn't hit his average in a single one of them
Not saying that its his fault they lose or he played worse, but losing maps leads to lower ratings and Fnatic spent most of the year just never losing. Stats alone should really only be half of the battle when determining how good or impactful a player is.
babysasuke [#54]Stats are also inflated when you spend most of the season stomping games, his team was pretty much uncontested for the whole year until Champions
Check his ratings in losses:
https://www.vlr.gg/213198/fnatic-vs-team-liquid-champions-tour-2023-emea-league-gf/?game=130956&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/248270/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/248282/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-lr3Doesn't hit his average in a single one of them
Not saying that its his fault they lose or he played worse, but losing maps leads to lower ratings and Fnatic spent most of the year just never losing. Stats alone should really only be half of the battle when determining how good or impactful a player is.
I mean ofc, loosing 3 games in a whole year helps the stats that's fair
babysasuke [#54]Stats are also inflated when you spend most of the season stomping games, his team was pretty much uncontested for the whole year until Champions
Check his ratings in losses:
https://www.vlr.gg/213198/fnatic-vs-team-liquid-champions-tour-2023-emea-league-gf/?game=130956&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/248270/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/248282/fnatic-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-lr3Doesn't hit his average in a single one of them
Not saying that its his fault they lose or he played worse, but losing maps leads to lower ratings and Fnatic spent most of the year just never losing. Stats alone should really only be half of the battle when determining how good or impactful a player is.
Atleast for Leo it makes sense as a support player and the way fnatic operate.
Fnc have pretty strict and set in stone roles compared to a lot of other teams.
The games that fnc struggle in you will often see chronicle and Leo having "low performances".
If site hits are unsuccessful they wouldn't get the rating value from assists etc.
capital_d_colon [#56]Atleast for Leo it makes sense as a support player and the way fnatic operate.
Fnc have pretty strict and set in stone roles compared to a lot of other teams.The games that fnc struggle in you will often see chronicle and Leo having "low performances".
If site hits are unsuccessful they wouldn't get the rating value from assists etc.
yeah thats exactly the point I'm making, the rating doesn't really matter
He's a fine player, he does his job, but he's not the lifeline of the team and his performance is not going to make or break a Championship run
Fnatic has all the pieces, they just need an IGL and support staff that knows how to use them properly
babysasuke [#59]yeah thats exactly the point I'm making, the rating doesn't really matter
He's a fine player, he does his job, but he's not the lifeline of the team and his performance is not going to make or break a Championship run
Fnatic has all the pieces, they just need an IGL and support staff that knows how to use them properly
I mean he is still very influential.
A lot of the rounds he acts a closer. If he fails to do that correctly fnc have lost the round.
they just need an IGL
You can stop with the boaster agenda. He is the piece that fnatic needs.
His midrounding has even improved a lot from last year.
You could argue that fnatic should've been more experimental or more prepared to take risks last year.
but its a hard middle ground to find, Loud tried that at tokyo and look what happened.
capital_d_colon [#60]I mean he is still very influential.
A lot of the rounds he acts a closer. If he fails to do that correctly fnc have lost the round.they just need an IGL
You can stop with the boaster agenda. He is the piece that fnatic needs.
His midrounding has even improved a lot from last year.You could argue that fnatic should've been more experimental or more prepared to take risks last year.
but its a hard middle ground to find, Loud tried that at tokyo and look what happened.
no need to argue with a known baiter
capital_d_colon [#60]I mean he is still very influential.
A lot of the rounds he acts a closer. If he fails to do that correctly fnc have lost the round.they just need an IGL
You can stop with the boaster agenda. He is the piece that fnatic needs.
His midrounding has even improved a lot from last year.You could argue that fnatic should've been more experimental or more prepared to take risks last year.
but its a hard middle ground to find, Loud tried that at tokyo and look what happened.
I'm not even saying Leo is bad or needs to get replaced.
I'm saying that calling him the best player of 2023 based on rating is asinine.
And its not a "Boaster agenda", its an objective take that Fnatic constantly underperforms and he and mini are the only constants. 10 rosters built around Boaster and Derke and the max the team has ever looked good is 4 months.
Build roster -> Honeymoon -> Crumble under pressure -> rebuild roster
never ends.
Okoretro [#21]"demon1 wasnt playing against t3 teams in his home region"
he was playing againdt BOTRG 😂
But he was playing them when NRG were good
babysasuke [#62]I'm not even saying Leo is bad or needs to get replaced.
I'm saying that calling him the best player of 2023 based on rating is asinine.
And its not a "Boaster agenda", its an objective take that Fnatic constantly underperforms and he and mini are the only constants. 10 rosters built around Boaster and Derke and the max the team has ever looked good is 4 months.
Build roster -> Honeymoon -> Crumble under pressure -> rebuild roster
never ends.
I mean in 2021 they lost the grand finals of Reykjavik, didn't qualify for Berlin.
Still kept the same roster and won their groups at champs.
2022:
Braveaf situation caused another rebuild.
The 2022 rebuild led to boaster moving onto a supportive controller role and mistic onto what was a firepower role. Since it didn't make much sense at the time to have boaster occupy what was a fragging role for the team.
Magnum simply didn't fit the chamber meta being a pure sentinel/lurker player. A chamber player was needed, or a player that could play the entry role and allow derke to play chamber.
Towards the end of 2022 it was shown that mistic did not fit the new role, he was much better on controller.
Rebuilding mid-season often causes issues down the line as you cannot properly fix all the issues, due to lack of options and roster lock limitations.
With the talent available in the emea market it made sense to pick up Leo and Chronicle.
There's a 3 year sample size with 2022 being disrupted due to the necessity to rebuild due to Braveaf
Asuna_Yuuki [#63]But he was playing them when NRG were good
NRG was never that good to begin with 💀
capital_d_colon [#64]I mean in 2021 they lost the grand finals of Reykjavik, didn't qualify for Berlin.
Still kept the same roster and won their groups at champs.2022:
Braveaf situation caused another rebuild.
The 2022 rebuild led to boaster moving onto a supportive controller role and mistic onto what was a firepower role. Since it didn't make much sense at the time to have boaster occupy what was a fragging role for the team.
Magnum simply didn't fit the chamber meta being a pure sentinel/lurker player. A chamber player was needed, or a player that could play the entry role and allow derke to play chamber.Towards the end of 2022 it was shown that mistic did not fit the new role, he was much better on controller.
Rebuilding mid-season often causes issues down the line as you cannot properly fix all the issues, due to lack of options and roster lock limitations.
With the talent available in the emea market it made sense to pick up Leo and Chronicle.There's a 3 year sample size with 2022 being disrupted due to the necessity to rebuild due to Braveaf
But you're forgetting that every time this roster get rebuilt, within a month the entirety of EMEA says all 5 are the best in their roles, just for them to be discarded in place of Boaster when the honeymoon ends.
Who knows, Chronicle tweeted that theyre not making changes. Maybe this is the start of a real effort from this org.
bonkashi [#43]i love that you can tell when its morning in america by how quickly sane takes start getting downvoted
and even more downvotes for things the american majority doesnt want to hear
babysasuke [#66]But you're forgetting that every time this roster get rebuilt, within a month the entirety of EMEA says all 5 are the best in their roles, just for them to be discarded in place of Boaster when the honeymoon ends.
Who knows, Chronicle tweeted that theyre not making changes. Maybe this is the start of a real effort from this org.
It is not my fault the FNC system is incredible at integrating new players and making them look great.
jonny05 [#2]just business
technically 1.25 cuz you have to round it up.
yay's best year: 1.20
tenz's best year: 1.24
leo's best year: 1.25
Braedo [#12]Your team got 1 win at an international event the entire year
cmon guys let's watch two clowns fighting to see who is worse
Okoretro [#65]NRG was never that good to begin with 💀
NRG was better than every EMEA team except FNC
alecksdesk [#46]well then he is a fruad
d4v4i would go 3.00 rating at the very least vs those bots
i think alecks would probs hate u ngl
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