are duelist player suppose to topfrag?

#1

TrialRunnr

just a question, should the duelist player be consistently top fragging or be in the top half of the leaderboard or have there been teams that have suceeded without this being the case?
Fnatic doesnt count cus Derke is still a top 3 duelist itw.

#2

Yessirskiiii

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Yes because the abilities are mostly for fragging and your team is setting you up. There's a reason duelists usually have the best ACS

#6

TrialRunnr

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then why is everyone crying over Ardiis not being the problem?

#7

Yessirskiiii

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Because he's not the sole problem

#14

TrialRunnr

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what else is the problem, do you see NRG losing to PRX or BLG if they had someone like Sayf or Aspas even Leaf instead of Ardiis?

#16

Yessirskiiii

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You can't just randomly get a Sayf in your team tho. He's a top 3 duelist itw for a rzn. Crashies, Victor, Ardiis and S0m ain't enough firepower to mask FNS's only flaw in his game, not fragging enough. But you can't expect your teams duelist to match Sayf unless your FNC or LOUD

#17

TrialRunnr

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Yay was matched and he was arguably a better player than Sayf

#20

Yessirskiiii

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Yeah he was better on a super broken agent that he could take braindead duels with and just tp to safety. Now that there's no super op escape agents and the team isn't built around him, Sayf is clearly better. With that being said, Optic was my fav NA team and i hope Yay comes back 🙏🙏 just don't think it will be the same

#21

TrialRunnr

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They got to a finals with him playing Jett bruh

#22

Yessirskiiii

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Pre nerf Jett tho. And he isn't a great entrier either. But i hope NRG pick Yay back up tho

#25

Zerphyr1

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doesn't matter if other people have the same advantage. common yessirskiii L

#26

cboomer

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Bro, there's different kinds of duelists. Yay and Ardiis rely a lot on their frags to get impact

A player like d3ff0 can bot frag and still be top 3 impact on gambit because he's entrying and getting pure first bloods

Ardiis does not entry half as good as d3ff0 so if he's bot fragging his jett looks useless.

Yay is a more consistent star even if he's less flexible than yay and honestly with almost every agent looking semi-viable on most maps atm I could see yay on reyna just being straight up worth over ardiis on jett

continue thread →

#34

ASTEROIDCHILD

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why wasn't sayf better on chamber than yay? million dollar question

#37

TrialRunnr

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this threads gone to shit bruh now that all the emea baiters have found it , no one is gonna answer this question.

#39

ASTEROIDCHILD

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people say broken agent tp braindead duels xdddddddd but nobody wants to accept that every single team had a chamber "abuser", yay was just better than all of them

#40

Yessirskiiii

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Maybe he was but he wasn't proven enough interregionally to be called better

#41

ASTEROIDCHILD

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LOL ok yay who was gapping everyone (including derke) but guild sayf was secretly better
totally not waffling in bad faith

#42

GreyDaze

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https://www.vlr.gg/112282/optic-gaming-vs-guild-esports-valorant-champions-tour-stage-2-masters-copenhagen-opening-a

Sayf literally diffed him lmao

#44

ASTEROIDCHILD

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you need to go on the analysis desk asap the scene needs your 5000 posts of wisdom

continue thread →

#31

SilentCypher

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Let me remind you tho, it was Guild that made Yay go negative in over a year and Sayf diffed him

#33

RealDeal

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dont compare that t3 chamber fraud to a goat

#11

nutab1e

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he walked right into that one 💀

#3

Chow1E

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no
its team game

#12

TrialRunnr

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then answer my second question, hasthere been a team that has succeeded with a mediocore duelist?

#15

nutab1e

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probably only gambit

#19

TrialRunnr

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didnt Sheydos play secondary duelist in alot of maps tho and fragged out but yea your right.

#23

Itsover

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They had nAts and chronicle having same acs as star duelists of other teams

#24

nutab1e

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my theory is that having your firepower concentrated on those roles was only viable in that astra meta because fast hits were basically impossible and you had to default and bait out util for 45 seconds every round

#4

GreyDaze

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They should be in a position that even if they are dying their team should be able to get trades and hence creating space. Always not about kills especially when entrying. But they should still be fragging out decently

#5

valorant_player

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if you win the teammates have done their job

#8

Domination

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More importantly is entering and creating space, usually yes but if the enemy team counters hard then the duelist will be a bot 🗿

#9

love_trial

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top frag depends on the game, but in general they should be top half because they're being set up by the rest of their team to get opening picks

#10

Asuna_Yuuki

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No

Some duelists are just meant to int and take space for the team

#13

guuz

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The point of the duelist is more to entry into sites and create space for their teams than just getting kills

they should probably be toward the top of the scoreboard, but if their team is winning and they've got low kills they're usually playing a role in that happening anyway

#18

pitchfork

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no duelist main job is to entry and take the site but better if they can frag as well

#27

cboomer

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if you are an ENTRY your frags do not matter created space does

A pivot is a role from CS kinda like a traditional AWPER that means taking aggresive angles and holding ( prime example is yay peak chamber holding angles with utility support being cycled to gain these angles )

something that a lot of duelists flex derke is a pivot/entry because he can awp and rifle at a high level

Yay is a pivot, so is ardiis, kangkang, wardell

Something is a rifler that plays more pivot and jinggg is the entry

#29

TrialRunnr

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Yea so NRG are basically lacking an entry, Vic is a great entry but his main job is to create space and Yay did all the fragging back then.
So we either need a better entry to replace Vic or a better pivot to frag out more over Ardiis, or maybe both lmao.

#28

kirrans

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derke is not mediocre, but he is not always topfragging, against zeta he botfragged on haven but they won 13-6. as long as they are a good entry and put themselves in tradeable positions that create space for the team, i will consider them to be a good duelist. most people just see duelists not topfragging and assume they are dogshit, but FK/FD matter more imo as it shows that they are taking early engagements and creating space most of the time

#30

TrialRunnr

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Yea I said Derke is top 3, he just doesnt stand out as much anymore cus his teammates are even more cracked.

#32

jimjam789

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on defense yeah

on attack not as important

#35

hungeryman

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If someone says yes, then the don’t actually know the game. The role of the duelist is to make space for the team, as long as he is doing that he doesn’t have to top frag.

They have the kit to get that first fight and if they win they create space for the team. But a duelist necessarily doesn’t need to be a top frag for the team as long as he is creating space using which team can enter the site

#38

Breloof

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Optic had plenty of games last year where yay was the primary fragger on Chamber with Victor setting him up on Raze/Neon without necessarily getting the most kills.

It depends on the team and the meta I guess. Chamber meta was mostly about setting Chamber up for kills, now it's more about setting up the Jett for kills. You can get value on duelists without top fragging, but usually the team is more successful if their duelist can consistently get kills.

#46

lucidM_

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in its nature, duelists are supposed to create space and if that is fulfilled then by definition they are doing their job. at pro level this is different not because of the inherent duties of the role but instead because other duelists are often the carry of the team. so, it is a problem if your duelist doesnt consistently pop off since the other team's duelist will