Players in the same tier are not in order
Leo
Big Gap
Sacy
gap
Ethan
Trent
Saadhak
Riens
Crashies
gap
Victor
Cauanzin
D4v41
Stax
Zyppan
small gap
Ange1
S1mon
Narrate
Com
0
All time initiator ranking
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i mean 2 internationals top 3, one top 4, one regional championship and one regional top 2 being very important to the team and one of the bests in the world in all of them isn't good for you?
he might have had a bad 2024 and still haven't reached his full potential but this doesn't really discount his 2023. overall he has the same record as trent
what? sacy peaked at champs 2022 and even then he wasn't loud's best player, leo was fnatic's best player for the majority of 2023 (and the time he played in 2024) and he's far better than sacy mechanically. leo was also good on guild which is the other notable team he was on. sacy was unarguably sen's worst player. saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game
"unarguably sen's worst player" not true. You can say he was the worst player but "unarguably" is a just untrue as he was by far the most clutch player on that team and had unparalleled importance for Sentinels outside of the server. Also "saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game" is the most bullshit argument i have ever heard LOL guess what, he won two international trophies in two entirely different teams, speaking two different languages, if you think that shouldnt be counted for anything you are just not even worth arguing with
yeah I'm not sure losing 10 aim duels then clutching 1 round is a particularly impressive feat. you deny the "unarguably", sure then. who COULD've been worse than him? zellsis? you know it's bad when you're comparing him to zellsis
if c0m were to win champs last year he'd the first 2 time champs winner, do you think he should be in a conversation for goat initiator? no, because he's a mediocre player on a good team. his english is also fluent enough to comm, why do you bring up "different language" as if it's an english competition? less just started learning english and he's doing just fine on vitality, valorant doesn't need amazing english to comm and sacy's english is good enough for irl conversations too.
yeah zellsis, you will can him shit too? So you think John, Tenz and Zekken are literally the only good players on that SEN roaster? LMAO bro you dont even hide your biases, no team can win anything relevant having two people playing bad all the time, that just goes to show that you dont understand what you are talking about at all. And yes, if c0m had won champs 2024, he would inevitably be in the initiator GOAT conversasions. Guess what, thats what GREATEST means. Winning titles is a great achievement as far as im concerned, being the ONLY one in history with a masters and champions? thats even greater.
Yeah, but I don't think it's that big gap as the ranking suggests. Leo have equal/better stats than Sacy, plays all initiators on a high level, but they don't share similar roles off-game. Leo indeed has its importance on his team, but I don't think that if he was in that SEN 2024 roster he would be able to support the team in-game and off-game like Sacy did. From that, I do believe Leo is the best initiator all-time, but he and Sacy are closer than most people think. Individuality doesn't carry every team
I don’t think being a flash or recon makes a difference if we’re talking about all time initiator all time as a whole because majority of the top 10 can play everything or close to everything with the exception of saadhak which he plays a lot of kayo and sova. If you can’t play multiple initiatirs your gonna be lower on the list
so then why is there supposedly a big gap between leo and sacy if sacy has done more than he has 😭
2 lans, 4 finals (including regionals and NOT including pre-franchise where he dominated)
1 regional trophy + however many regionals loud got when they were in brazil
only player to have a masters and a champions
they are in the same tier MINIMUM, i would argue sacy is above leo but that is debatable for now
Sacy has the accolades to compete with Leo but individually it’s not even close bro. Like all I’m hearing is accolades on a top 3 team of all time with
Top 3 duelist all time
Top 3 igl all time
Top 5 controller all time
And top 5 senti all time
As much as I fw sacy the teams he’s been on were so good he was the eirst one on the team.
If we only compare accolades then people like com is higher than everyone on this list
all of leo’s accolades have been with
a top 2 duelist of all time
the best flex of all time
a top 2 sentinel of all time
a top 3 igl of all time
and sacy has had crazy individual talent when he was winning on loud, obviously no one can maintain that form forever but his prime has to be respected
and if we’re taking individual performances into account put cauanzin and riens higher
you're so delusional, leo was putting up better stats on guild with half the team being dogshit than sacy was on sentinels. you're also acting like sacy's 2022 champs win wasn't with a team on the same level of players as fnatic, he was then unarguably sentinel's worst player throughout the year
leo at his worst is sacy at his best
so if we’re basing this list solely on stats then why are some initiators who are clearly much more talented so far down on this list
and if sacy’s team was as good as fnatic, then why is there such a big gap between him and leo if sacy has achieved more than he has while still being able to hold his own when he WAS still owning
leo is great, one of the best of all time, but he is not alone at the top
because this is an all time ranking so it has to take into account everything a player has done, riens for example had a great first year in tier 1 so if you're simply taking the average then he's "great" but then if you look at performances independently, sacy having a good year + a mid year would place him higher.
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