Players in the same tier are not in order
Leo
Big Gap
Sacy
gap
Ethan
Nobody
Chronicle
Trent
Zeek
Saadhak
Riens
Crashies
gap
Victor
Cauanzin
D4v41
Stax
Zyppan
small gap
Ange1
S1mon
Narrate
Com
Trexx
0
All time initiator ranking
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bonkashi [#2]"all time" and mr onliner with 0 international wins or even finals appearances is top 4? get real
Yo if you read at the top of the post it says that players in same tier aren’t in order
elysxxm [#3]Yo if you read at the top of the post it says that players in same tier aren’t in order
this is vlr im not reading PSAs
either way he shouldn't be in the same conversation as anyone else in that tier, maybe not even in the tier below
if g2 place well this tournament its a different story, but for now he's largely unproven
jimmy1591 [#6]sacy one trick sova "second best initiator" 💀💀
wdym his fade and gekko are great only the skye is a bit icky
bonkashi [#5]this is vlr im not reading PSAs
either way he shouldn't be in the same conversation as anyone else in that tier, maybe not even in the tier below
if g2 place well this tournament its a different story, but for now he's largely unproven
How can someone be this ignorant
bonkashi [#2]"all time" and mr onliner with 0 international wins or even finals appearances is top 4? get real
facts trent carried by vayln now jaw and everyone thinks he's good
jimmy1591 [#11]facts trent carried by vayln now jaw and everyone thinks he's good
If your gonna bait make it believable
elysxxm [#10]I don’t see a world he’s 3rd tier ngl
you forget about 2023 how impactful he was, aspas and less may have duo carried a lot of games, but when either of them (more like less) had a bad game cauan stepped up. He is a generational talent similar to riens.
elysxxm [#10]I don’t see a world he’s 3rd tier ngl
i mean 2 internationals top 3, one top 4, one regional championship and one regional top 2 being very important to the team and one of the bests in the world in all of them isn't good for you?
he might have had a bad 2024 and still haven't reached his full potential but this doesn't really discount his 2023. overall he has the same record as trent
bonkashi [#2]"all time" and mr onliner with 0 international wins or even finals appearances is top 4? get real
Team placements arent equivalent to skill
foythvlr [#14]i mean 2 internationals top 3, one top 4, one regional championship and one regional top 2 being very important to the team and one of the bests in the world in all of them isn't good for you?
he might have had a bad 2024 and still haven't reached his full potential but this doesn't really discount his 2023. overall he has the same record as trent
Okay this spelled it out for me. I forgot loud got top 3 at champs and 4 at Madrid ngl. He’s in the third tier
foythvlr [#7]wdym his fade and gekko are great only the skye is a bit icky
they are great but not second best in the world great bffr
jimmy1591 [#18]they are great but not second best in the world great bffr
maybe not the best but they are consistent enough to make him the overall second best initiator of all time and arguably the best if leo wasn't such a freak of nature
jimmy1591 [#18]they are great but not second best in the world great bffr
his gekko is thou? hell you could even say he is THE best gekko of all time. Who has had more impact on that agent than him?
Veri [#22]his gekko is thou? hell you could even say he is THE best gekko of all time. Who has had more impact on that agent than him?
Leo
LTulkens7 [#24]why did you not consider chronicle?
Cue he played more viper and other stuff than initiator
bonkashi [#2]"all time" and mr onliner with 0 international wins or even finals appearances is top 4? get real
VCT has been LAN only since 2023
AnguAngu [#20]d4v41 and stax only apac representation?
Invy is better than most of this list, as well as Free1ng
Bro free1ing has played initiator his whole t1 career and has only been to 1 event which he got 5-6th he is nowhere on this list. Pacific never had amazing runs so their initiators never did much outside of region
shrike- [#29]there is not a big gap between leo and sacy bro
If Leo never got sick I think there would be, but I guess that’s a what if
goatman123 [#31]holy newgen
no one tell him about 2022 shao
I literally looked at fpx Games for this, he wasn’t even the main initiator
elysxxm [#32]If Leo never got sick I think there would be, but I guess that’s a what if
it is in fact a what-if, we can’t just make shit up in our heads based off stuff from two years ago
sacy has 2 lan wins and 3 lan finals, plus a multitude of other regional ones
shrike- [#29]there is not a big gap between leo and sacy bro
there is an enormous gap between leo and sacy
shrike- [#35]it is in fact a what-if, we can’t just make shit up in our heads based off stuff from two years ago
sacy has 2 lan wins and 3 lan finals, plus a multitude of other regional ones
Leo has 2 lans while being the best player on the greatest team of all time, including top 4 at champs. He has 2 regional trophies and has been in 4 finals. What did I make up from “2 years ago” it hasn’t even been a full year since he got sick
sergueiessenine [#38]cauanzin is a better player than every single player in the third tier bar maybe riens
I agree he’s probably in the 3rd tier someone changed my mind but he’s not better than everyone there
Azzelastia [#39]C0M clears.
Champs winner with the greatest team of all time.
You can win champs and not be crazy good. Look at s1mon, boostio
elysxxm [#40]Leo has 2 lans while being the best player on the greatest team of all time, including top 4 at champs. He has 2 regional trophies and has been in 4 finals. What did I make up from “2 years ago” it hasn’t even been a full year since he got sick
so then why is there supposedly a big gap between leo and sacy if sacy has done more than he has 😭
2 lans, 4 finals (including regionals and NOT including pre-franchise where he dominated)
1 regional trophy + however many regionals loud got when they were in brazil
only player to have a masters and a champions
they are in the same tier MINIMUM, i would argue sacy is above leo but that is debatable for now
elysxxm [#26]Cue he played more viper and other stuff than initiator
couldn't you say the same about a lot of people on this list tho?
shrike- [#43]so then why is there supposedly a big gap between leo and sacy if sacy has done more than he has 😭
2 lans, 4 finals (including regionals and NOT including pre-franchise where he dominated)
1 regional trophy + however many regionals loud got when they were in brazil
only player to have a masters and a championsthey are in the same tier MINIMUM, i would argue sacy is above leo but that is debatable for now
Sacy has the accolades to compete with Leo but individually it’s not even close bro. Like all I’m hearing is accolades on a top 3 team of all time with
Top 3 duelist all time
Top 3 igl all time
Top 5 controller all time
And top 5 senti all time
As much as I fw sacy the teams he’s been on were so good he was the eirst one on the team.
If we only compare accolades then people like com is higher than everyone on this list
LTulkens7 [#44]couldn't you say the same about a lot of people on this list tho?
Like who?
I only see an argument for d4v41 and victor
elysxxm [#45]Sacy has the accolades to compete with Leo but individually it’s not even close bro. Like all I’m hearing is accolades on a top 3 team of all time with
Top 3 duelist all time
Top 3 igl all time
Top 5 controller all time
And top 5 senti all timeAs much as I fw sacy the teams he’s been on were so good he was the eirst one on the team.
If we only compare accolades then people like com is higher than everyone on this list
all of leo’s accolades have been with
a top 2 duelist of all time
the best flex of all time
a top 2 sentinel of all time
a top 3 igl of all time
and sacy has had crazy individual talent when he was winning on loud, obviously no one can maintain that form forever but his prime has to be respected
and if we’re taking individual performances into account put cauanzin and riens higher
Veri [#17]i dont think the gap between leo and sacy is all that big to be honest, im not even sure if there is a gap at all
Leo is a better player for sure but Sacy is more condecorated and just in general has a bigger legacy
what? sacy peaked at champs 2022 and even then he wasn't loud's best player, leo was fnatic's best player for the majority of 2023 (and the time he played in 2024) and he's far better than sacy mechanically. leo was also good on guild which is the other notable team he was on. sacy was unarguably sen's worst player. saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game
shrike- [#47]all of leo’s accolades have been with
a top 2 duelist of all time
the best flex of all time
a top 2 sentinel of all time
a top 3 igl of all timeand sacy has had crazy individual talent when he was winning on loud, obviously no one can maintain that form forever but his prime has to be respected
and if we’re taking individual performances into account put cauanzin and riens higher
you're so delusional, leo was putting up better stats on guild with half the team being dogshit than sacy was on sentinels. you're also acting like sacy's 2022 champs win wasn't with a team on the same level of players as fnatic, he was then unarguably sentinel's worst player throughout the year
leo at his worst is sacy at his best
elysxxm [#46]Like who?
I only see an argument for d4v41 and victor
those two and saadhak and ange1, also I personally think it's better to make a distinction between flash and recon initiator
uwukitten [#50]you're so delusional, leo was putting up better stats on guild with half the team being dogshit than sacy was on sentinels. you're also acting like sacy's 2022 champs win wasn't with a team on the same level of players as fnatic, he was then unarguably sentinel's worst player throughout the year
leo at his worst is sacy at his best
so if we’re basing this list solely on stats then why are some initiators who are clearly much more talented so far down on this list
and if sacy’s team was as good as fnatic, then why is there such a big gap between him and leo if sacy has achieved more than he has while still being able to hold his own when he WAS still owning
leo is great, one of the best of all time, but he is not alone at the top
shrike- [#47]all of leo’s accolades have been with
a top 2 duelist of all time
the best flex of all time
a top 2 sentinel of all time
a top 3 igl of all timeand sacy has had crazy individual talent when he was winning on loud, obviously no one can maintain that form forever but his prime has to be respected
and if we’re taking individual performances into account put cauanzin and riens higher
Cauanzin and rienshave not had better individual performances then Leo and that is objectively a fact. Leo has the same accolades as sacy but while being the best on his team. he’s number 1
shrike- [#52]so if we’re basing this list solely on stats then why are some initiators who are clearly much more talented so far down on this list
and if sacy’s team was as good as fnatic, then why is there such a big gap between him and leo if sacy has achieved more than he has while still being able to hold his own when he WAS still owning
leo is great, one of the best of all time, but he is not alone at the top
because this is an all time ranking so it has to take into account everything a player has done, riens for example had a great first year in tier 1 so if you're simply taking the average then he's "great" but then if you look at performances independently, sacy having a good year + a mid year would place him higher.
uwukitten [#48]what? sacy peaked at champs 2022 and even then he wasn't loud's best player, leo was fnatic's best player for the majority of 2023 (and the time he played in 2024) and he's far better than sacy mechanically. leo was also good on guild which is the other notable team he was on. sacy was unarguably sen's worst player. saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game
"unarguably sen's worst player" not true. You can say he was the worst player but "unarguably" is a just untrue as he was by far the most clutch player on that team and had unparalleled importance for Sentinels outside of the server. Also "saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game" is the most bullshit argument i have ever heard LOL guess what, he won two international trophies in two entirely different teams, speaking two different languages, if you think that shouldnt be counted for anything you are just not even worth arguing with
LTulkens7 [#51]those two and saadhak and ange1, also I personally think it's better to make a distinction between flash and recon initiator
I don’t think being a flash or recon makes a difference if we’re talking about all time initiator all time as a whole because majority of the top 10 can play everything or close to everything with the exception of saadhak which he plays a lot of kayo and sova. If you can’t play multiple initiatirs your gonna be lower on the list
Veri [#55]"unarguably sen's worst player" not true. You can say he was the worst player but "unarguably" is a just untrue as he was by far the most clutch player on that team and had unparalleled importance for Sentinels outside of the server. Also "saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game" is the most bullshit argument i have ever heard LOL guess what, he won two international trophies in two entirely different teams, speaking two different languages, if you think that shouldnt be counted for anything you are just not even worth arguing with
yeah I'm not sure losing 10 aim duels then clutching 1 round is a particularly impressive feat. you deny the "unarguably", sure then. who COULD've been worse than him? zellsis? you know it's bad when you're comparing him to zellsis
if c0m were to win champs last year he'd the first 2 time champs winner, do you think he should be in a conversation for goat initiator? no, because he's a mediocre player on a good team. his english is also fluent enough to comm, why do you bring up "different language" as if it's an english competition? less just started learning english and he's doing just fine on vitality, valorant doesn't need amazing english to comm and sacy's english is good enough for irl conversations too.
Veri [#55]"unarguably sen's worst player" not true. You can say he was the worst player but "unarguably" is a just untrue as he was by far the most clutch player on that team and had unparalleled importance for Sentinels outside of the server. Also "saying he's more decorated doesn't contribute anything since it's a team game" is the most bullshit argument i have ever heard LOL guess what, he won two international trophies in two entirely different teams, speaking two different languages, if you think that shouldnt be counted for anything you are just not even worth arguing with
Leo and sacy have similar accolades but Leo individually clears sacy
This shit be obvious. In every statistic Leo is either equal or better than sacy why having his accolades
uwukitten [#58]yeah I'm not sure losing 10 aim duels then clutching 1 round is a particularly impressive feat. you deny the "unarguably", sure then. who COULD've been worse than him? zellsis? you know it's bad when you're comparing him to zellsis
if c0m were to win champs last year he'd the first 2 time champs winner, do you think he should be in a conversation for goat initiator? no, because he's a mediocre player on a good team. his english is also fluent enough to comm, why do you bring up "different language" as if it's an english competition? less just started learning english and he's doing just fine on vitality, valorant doesn't need amazing english to comm and sacy's english is good enough for irl conversations too.
yeah zellsis, you will can him shit too? So you think John, Tenz and Zekken are literally the only good players on that SEN roaster? LMAO bro you dont even hide your biases, no team can win anything relevant having two people playing bad all the time, that just goes to show that you dont understand what you are talking about at all. And yes, if c0m had won champs 2024, he would inevitably be in the initiator GOAT conversasions. Guess what, thats what GREATEST means. Winning titles is a great achievement as far as im concerned, being the ONLY one in history with a masters and champions? thats even greater.
elysxxm [#59]Leo and sacy have similar accolades but Leo individually clears sacy
This shit be obvious. In every statistic Leo is either equal or better than sacy why having his accolades
individually sure, Leo is better. Legacy-wise? A big fat no, not even close. Thats all im saying.
Veri [#61]individually sure, Leo is better. Legacy-wise? A big fat no, not even close. Thats all im saying.
Legacy does not equal skill, plus Leo isn’t even retired yet we don’t know what legacy he will leave behind
elysxxm [#57]I don’t think being a flash or recon makes a difference if we’re talking about all time initiator all time as a whole because majority of the top 10 can play everything or close to everything with the exception of saadhak which he plays a lot of kayo and sova. If you can’t play multiple initiatirs your gonna be lower on the list
then you should add chronicle no? played a lot of sova and breach, kayo and skye
elysxxm [#59]Leo and sacy have similar accolades but Leo individually clears sacy
This shit be obvious. In every statistic Leo is either equal or better than sacy why having his accolades
Yeah, but I don't think it's that big gap as the ranking suggests. Leo have equal/better stats than Sacy, plays all initiators on a high level, but they don't share similar roles off-game. Leo indeed has its importance on his team, but I don't think that if he was in that SEN 2024 roster he would be able to support the team in-game and off-game like Sacy did. From that, I do believe Leo is the best initiator all-time, but he and Sacy are closer than most people think. Individuality doesn't carry every team
elysxxm [#59]Leo and sacy have similar accolades but Leo individually clears sacy
This shit be obvious. In every statistic Leo is either equal or better than sacy why having his accolades
.
elysxxm [#8]How can someone be this ignorant
Shameless elysxxm, using a poor little brit to upvote farm..
GambleNats [#68]not even a mention of EDG nobody? who is one of the best igls rn?
Doesn’t nobody play smokes
Duessix [#69]Did Trexx disappear or something
Oh shit your right ngl, I don’t know if he’s up here yet though he hasn’t a great performance so far and he has zero accolades. Last year was good tho
elysxxm [#72]Doesn’t nobody play smokes
no... he only plays intiator, smoggy and chichoo plays smokes
m1kah [#70]crashies over d4v41 and cauanzin? youre tweakin buddy
Prime crashies was insane brother, he’s mid now but remove recent bias and he’s definitely up there
GambleNats [#74]no... he only plays intiator, smoggy and chichoo plays smokes
Damn idk ball, he’s third tier then under sacy
Tomoe [#66]Yeah, but I don't think it's that big gap as the ranking suggests. Leo have equal/better stats than Sacy, plays all initiators on a high level, but they don't share similar roles off-game. Leo indeed has its importance on his team, but I don't think that if he was in that SEN 2024 roster he would be able to support the team in-game and off-game like Sacy did. From that, I do believe Leo is the best initiator all-time, but he and Sacy are closer than most people think. Individuality doesn't carry every team
The gap is big because even though their accolades are the same pretty much sacy has never been on a team without less than 2 top 3 players in his role
Aspas is a top 3 all time player
Pancada top 5 controller
Less top 5 senti
Saadhak top 5 igl
Zekken top 5 duelist
Tenz top 5 controller
Sacy is insane but he’s always been the worst on his team stat wise which Leo has been on a team without and with all time players and was always the best
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