Viper on Abyss?

#1

OldIGN

Was wondering why no one uses Viper on abyss? I know that other controllers are strong, but i think Viper could be viable. Abyss honestly just feels like icebox. So I'd just assume Viper would/should be viable on the map. Of course you'd have to go with double controller, but pair Viper up with Tejo, Vyse or Cypher, and I think you could easily hold A site, then just be careful of mid. I was thinking of a comp like: Yoru, Viper, Astra, Vyse/Chamber, Tejo/Sova. Also I think Viper's wall would make enemies more aware of lurks? Just having a wall there makes it feel more real/obvious of a lurk.

#2

Hynix

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since viper has received orb nerf and has only one molly stall potential has become pretty bad compared to other sentis
not really worth swapping out of double initiator on such a big map esp when there's no great lurk wall found yet

#3

lejargon

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Harbor would be a better pick imo, but I consider Omen & Astra are better cause you can smoke quicker

#4

Galactc

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Because people think cypher is good on this map for some reason so there's no room for viper in those comps

#6

OldIGN

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tbh I am a cypher main currently ascendant playing in low immo/high ascendant lobbies and whenever i played cypher on abyss its dreadful, and repetitive. It got to the point that I've switched from cypher to astra who I've only played like twice in comp.

#9

Galactc

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I've always thought cypher wasn't great on this map even before the nerfs I honestly think kj is better and viper even more so people just need to give more things a go I always say that playing the jett omen/astra sova kayo cypher comp is a red flag in a team because it shows they can't innovative at all

#12

incidmoir

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kjs ult gives little to no value on attack

#13

Galactc

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Not in the traditional way but you can use it on site against retakes and I still think it's better than playing cypher on this map

#15

inuis

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cypher has a 53% nmwr in tier 1 according to tmv's new video, it seems pretty decent imo and could just depend on team philosophy whether you run it or not rather than it being objectively bad

#16

OldIGN

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I mean i didnt say it was bad. Just repetitive and frustrating. It's either a 1v5 on B which turns into a retake, or its a 1/2/3v3/4/5 retake on A and takes you like 15 seconds to rotate + the time it takes to clear mid in case of lurk. It's just boring, you can't really benefit off his trips on B which is the site you play most on with cypher depending on your comp. B site just needs a change I think. You cant exactly try trade off your broken trip cause you might just have 4 people holding the angle you're going to peek.

#18

inuis

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i wasnt responding to you anyway??

#19

OldIGN

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Yeah I know but my comment looked like I was 100% agreeing with them, just wanted to put out my opinion.

#17

Galactc

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That's fair but he's also being played by so many teams I feel like 53% is smaller than it should be but idk for sure I haven't gone through the statistics it's just my opinion from experience

#21

bees

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Cypher makes sense bc the map is lurk city. It's Kayo who should be swapped for Viper. Sova is fine as a solo ini with double smokes.

#5

Yistyy

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You should try it out in premier or scrims and let us know how it goes

#8

OldIGN

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I aint like that broski. Im barely hanging with randomly put together low immo's nevermind scrimming against a properly coordinated team. You could see on my val tracker just type in my name same as here.

#10

Yistyy

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Nah mate thats the wrong attitude. You rock at this game, always tell yourself that you're better than all these mfs.

#7

cloudberry

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Viper Harbor is genuinely absurd on this map and I don't know why no teams are trying it. Maybe it's because both are quite weak atm, or maybe it's because nobody really puts enough time into Harbor to be able to play him at a high level

#11

OldIGN

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I saw Karmine corps match, and Saadhak was playing harbor. Tbh it looked out of place on Abyss, I don't think his ult is that useful either, orb might be useful on attack but thats mainly it (because of how much post-plant util there is. not that good on defense). Maybe paired with Viper it could be good, but if ENGH and Saadhak put Astra instead of Viper when Loud were quite possibly the best Harbor, Viper team itw at some point then it might not be that good. Obviously thinking about it. If they left out Viper then it might've been on Vipers end that problems occurred. But also looking at other maps that they used Harbor on they still didnt use Viper either. Maybe Suygetsu aint that confident on Viper anymore.

#14

inuis

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except from that it wouldnt have any crazy ideas like it did in prx's comp, sometimes it just isnt worth forcing

#20

GambleNats

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Viper excels when she can put a wall somewhere and threaten a lurk that is very threatening and hard to clear out with a player there. (so far there isnt a wall that is very effective)
She cant hold nearly as well as a senti anymore and she cant be a solo controller so its hard to slot her in somewhere. Viper also has limited smokes especially since she cant pick up her orb anymore.