Zero Duelist Comps?

Will no duelist comps ever be meta, or even viable, again?

The current map pool is Abyss, Bind, Fracture, Haven, Lotus, Pearl, Split

Historically the only map that has ever seen viable 0-duelist play has been Pearl, and that was during the Chamber meta. The comp in question was KAY/O, Fade, Astra, Viper, and Chamber. Even with a nerfed Chamber this comp could be redesigned to be viable within the current meta, maybe something like KAY/O, Fade, Astra, Harbor, Cypher? This allows at once strong map-control ability, executing ability, and post-plant ability, as well as retaining strong defensive identity. The only thing lacking is an OPer, which is pretty good on Pearl.

Abyss is a strong OPing map, Jett had been in basically all of the compositions up to now, either that or a Yoru-based composition.

Bind has never seen true zero-duelist comps at the high level; Raze (and very rarely Neon/Jett/Yoru) is a staple of every composition.

FPX ran zero-duelist on Fracture before, but that was at the very beginning; Raze or Neon has been present in basically every composition since.

Haven saw Sentinels run a no-duelist comp; again, this was the exception rather than the rule.

Lotus is a newer map and probably saw more experimentation of zero-duelist than I remember, but it seems still that a Duelist is usually meta.

Split is another heavy Raze map, and especially with the prevalence of double Duelist, zero-duelist does not seem very viable either.

This begs the question: why was zero-duelist ever a thing? Well, the Chamber meta allowed for an OPer, and also someone to take aggressive fights on attack. Because Chamber also covered the sentinel role, this freed up a spot for an extra initiator or controller for even more abilities to be used in various ways. Nowadays with the Chamber nerf, any no-duelist comp has to either have a playstyle in which you consistently take and win opening duels, which is a huge ask, or make up for it with the sheer amount of map-controlling abilities, which is perhaps a bigger ask.

So overall, as much as I loved seeing no-duelist comps in 2022, I don't think it'll ever be viable again. You're free to disagree though; I'm just a guy who watches and yaps without much basis in what I say.

Thoughts?

icebox g2 zero duelist comp?

T3xture omen was the craziest thing ive seen in a long time

No, because teams hardly innovate as the stakes are too high. If we had more crossplay between like t1 and tier3 teams, the latter might try something different to surprise them, but as the format is, I think its really doubtfull.

This is my list from maps that need duelists the least to the ones that need it the most.

1. Icebox
2. Sunset
3. Fracture
4. Pearl
5. Breeze
6. Abyss
7. Haven
8. Lotus
9. Bind
10. Split
11. Ascent

allat

Without Ascent and Split in the pool, doable

any comp with yoru can pretty much be a 0 duelist comp

honestly duelists r pretty overrated rn, unless its a raze map you can argue clove/kayo can function as a decent make shift duelist

imo Icebox is better played with no duelist. G2 has the right idea with 2 init 2 controllers

No duelist will be boring like CS style just flash and molly with smokes. Best sentinel player can be the carry with duelist aim since there's no entry duelist.

yes because maps will rotate regularly and icebox is pretty good with no duelists

You're not wrong, can really only play no duelists on maps that have larger/multiple choke points available to attackers. There are only about three of those at all (icebox, pearl, ascent) and two of them are out of the pool. All the other maps have narrow chokepoints where an entry is almost necessary.

m80 ran 0 duelist on lotus, they used 3 sentinels (deadlock, sage and cypher) 1 smoke (omen) and 1 initiatior (fade)

"Historically the only map that has ever seen viable 0-duelist play has been Pearl"
It's more Icebox. in tier 1 form FS to noweadays 0-D composition have been play in 17% of case with a 46% Non Mirror WInrate (Pre-franchised ERA is only PO)
in Pearl it's only 5% PR with 30% Non Mirror WInrate
Ascent is 5% PR and 43% NMWR
Breeze 4% PR and 33% NMWR
Sunset 3% PR 45% NMWR

Overall, no-duelist composition have been played in 4% of case with an horrible 41% Non mirro WR wish is significanttly bad (With only 1% of doubt)