they both had a mickey mouse win and both had high placements but is 4th in the most stacked champs yet enough to compensate for not making shanghai and to compete with gengs 2nd in madrid?
I think it really easily is just because the two masters this year were barely any better than last years in terms of high level competition. Both those tourneys no teams even came close to geng or sens dominance in the meta
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Sen or Geng better Year?
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dude the fact that everyone in that tournament other than fnc who went 0-2 got demolished by GenG who were only marginally better than their madrid counterparts just goes to show the level of competition was really not that high.
Just go watch the matches and youll see that shanghai had the most throws and shaky gameplay out of any masters yet even more than madrid (even tho i think madrid was more mickey mouse).
G2 fell on their face during their last 2 matches as they always do, Lev didnt even make it out of groups, FNC went 0-2, PRX didnt show up at all compared to their regional matches, TH got wiped in the finals. Theres really no argument for that tourney being anywhere near the most competitive masters weve had. Im not saying this from a sen fan biased lens but just as a fan of VCT, that tourney disappointed me more than Madrid cause i had expectations for so many of the big name teams that didnt show in madrid
thats a whole lotta cope.... and to say that there hasnt been multiple throws in champs is just u being dishonest. the level of play at shanghai is jsut as good as champs.
and i think ur confused by the meaning of a "mickey mouse tourney". madrid is not called a mickey mouse tourney due to the skill level or perfomances by the teams, but the qualification process. if u lost 1 game at the wrong time u were out and didnt make it to madrid.
saying there were throws this champs is one thing but to lie to yourself and say the competition is just as good is insane behaviour. Just watch the matches and youll see that shanghai didnt deliver as much as it was hyped up to. PRX FNC G2 LEV 100T EDG all not delivering on their huge expectations coming into the tournament on top of TH getting completely rolled by GENG which showed how far the disparity in competition really was. GENG definitely deserved to win and they were the best team by far but there wasnt even a challenge for the title in shanghai.
In this champs tho its so much closer than anyone was expecting it to be.
EDG and LEV neck and neck going for the trophy, both of them finally delivering up to the expectations that were put on them so long ago
SEN making an unprecedented run after being thrown under the bus for "not deserving their qualification spot" playing some of their best valorant since madrid
TH creating insane energy and winning rounds of pure individual talent from EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on this roster that hasnt been able to compete together all year
FNC finally showing a glimpse of their prior form from 2023 even though theyre playing with a sub
DRX playing at a phenomenal level after being robbed of their spots in each qualifier right at the very edge of qualification
sure there were some throws but at the very least they mostly happened in the group stage or early playoffs rather than the absolute crumble at the very end of shanghai that we saw from 100t g2 and even to an extent th
the argument "teams didnt perform to their expections therefor this tourney sucks" is a horrible take. the same argument can be used FOR THIS CHAMPS.
G2 losing to both fnc and lev 2-0, PRX, GENG and VIT getting grouped and DRX not making it further ARE ALL VALID EXCUSES TO CLAIM THAT THIS CHAMPS IS BAD WITH UR LOGIC.
some teams just wont perform to their expectations, even though they are favourites to win it, that doesnt mean the level of play is worse or bad.....
Prx have been bad all year so it was just you expecting anything, GenG disappointed but again we've seen this from every winner so not unexpected, vitality got grouped but not because they were bad, it was because trace had an amazing 2 maps on both them and Lev. Drx were amazing, if anything they were better than a significant portion of their early performances as the old roster and made it 5th 6th with rookies, that's not an underperformance. Esp if you lose to TH.
G2 underperformed as well but we also know that they do this every international event, there ain't nothing out of the norm out of everything you pointed out. Id only give validity to the G2 one and even then it's 1 underperformance, that doesn't warrant this tournament being bad
it genuinely was tho, im not taking the credit away from the winners cause they very clearly were the best teams weve ever seen thus far, both sen and geng are eons above what we had last year aside from EG but what im saying is the skill disparity was so huge. On top of being top heavy both tournaments especially shanghai was filled with chokers and round throw after round throw. TH couldnt even bring their full roster and made it to the GF.
Mickey Mouse just means a tourney where it really isnt competitive at all and the winners were clear from the beginning
mickey mouse tournament means it was not an honorable win. What part about madrid or shanghai wasnt? You guys nit pick every single little thing I see. So lets call every year mickey mouse. The venue wasnt good enough! I didnt like the playoff draws! I didnt like DRX map veto they trolled the map veto! HERETICS THROW PISTOL ROUND! Do you see how you sound rn? You gotta be trolling cause the skill disparity? So fnc dominating 2023 was mickey mouse because they were what simply better than everyone else? Wtf is this mindset
even as a fan of FNC their wins were mickey mouse. It was almost a 0 map loss win in lockin even though Loud gave them a real competition and Tokyo was a lossless tourney with a 3-0 finals breeze. The only argument for Lockin is that every team was there so it wasnt a mickey mouse because thats ALL the competition in VCT. Tokyo tho was a fuck fest with some of the rated top 6 teams went out 0-2
i literally called my own teams single trophy since 2021 a mickey mouse, how is that narrative good for me? Either way you people really seem to not understand what a mickey mouse is. Im not saying either of geng or sen were bad, im saying there was no real competition for them and that their titles were practically given to them from the get go.
For Geng it was far easier than for sen but ill give them the benefit of actually looking better in shanghai than sen did in madrid
You said mickey mouse tourney is a tourney where the winners were clear from the beginning. You're wrong. Mickey mouse tourney use for when the tour is not important. When Sen won, it's not even clear if they'll win the Masters. When GenG won, they're a huge favourite but it doesn't mean other team couldn't win it. Your horrendous take could be placed in Chernobyl and still survive even the apocalypse
are we really counting the pacific regional trophy? Thats kinda low isnt it? Thats like awarding EDG with a great year in 2023 because they won all stages of their circuit. Pacific wasnt really that competitive in the first place to be measuring it with any weight. All year it was DRX PRX and GenG at the top and PRX GENG were secured spots already. Ofc Americas wasnt a huge deal better but either way im not looking at regional trophies as they are really just glorified qualifiers
Im talking international achievements
Sen sorry but even though sen had a bad split 1 geng not being able to get out of groups in the most important event of the year is fucked and IMO just gives Sen more of an argument. Not to mention GenG had everything going for them number 1 seed, unreal confidence and home crowd, to me sen's dissapointment to new life is a much more hopeful and theoretically better year than good until it matters most.
thats exactly what i mean, how much are we gonna weight an 8 team tournament 2nd place and a fairly uncompetitive shanghai over the most stacked champions weve had in valorant history?
I genuinely dont think im being that unreasonable when i say 4th place in champs is a huge deal to at the very least be in argument for best year over geng
it was more competitive sure you could argue but it had so much more disappointment with the amount of egregious throws that happened. On top of that SEN v GENG was a matchup of giants going neck and neck whereas in shanghai we didnt really have any of that and GENG kinda just breezed on through aside from the fnc match
best team of the year is not going to be GENG or SEN lol. its going to be the champs winner. I just think performing at the ultimate events at the highest stakes is so much more important than what GENG accomplished beforehand, its like in sports u call the number 1 seed the best team in the year but losing their playoff run instantly. Masters <<<< Champs in general
Nah best team of the year likely going to Heretics if they win, either way tho the issue with the valorant scene is that they havent been able to regard champions as anything more than a 16 team masters because until this year every champs was the same 8 top teams globally that could even remotely compete for the title. Goign into this tourney people were debating all different versions of their top 8, literally almost any team you put down it would be pretty valid aside from a few.
Every team had difficult matches no matter what group no matter what side of playoffs no matter lower or upper bracket.
Geng didnt even have to sweat to get top 4 in shanghai, fuck they didnt even scrim bro and they won the entire event. Shanghai win was no big feat as an achievement alone. GENG couldve played at 60% and they still wouldve won it by comfortable margin
GenG were by far the better team overall in the VCT circuit.
Less losses, attended every Lan, with only one lan being an underperformance.
Sen attended all but one lan, and coming 6th in champs.
Even with geng being grouped, their consistency across the year was far superior to Sen.
Hell, without Lev beating Kru, Sen wouldn't be at champs. They were close to losing the spot.
It's a close comparison as both had similar peaks, but geng going back to back finals, consistent across regional. I'd say their year was better.
They were the better team I agree, I'm talking achievements tho. Sen got 4th not 6th and in terms of this champions it's much more impressive to me than getting 2nd in Madrid and it makes up for not making it out of the hardest region in the world.
GenG had 0 issues getting out of Pacific cause even Prx for most of the year were trash
I mean, it's probably just agree to disagree, but attending all lans is a better achievement than missing one. It shows one team is consistent, and the other just has highs and lows. Plus out of 3 lans they made finals twice, only underperforming once. Sen attended 2/3, and performed well in the two.
Also you say 0 issues getting out of pacific, but neglect to remember that prx was 9-1 in pacific, and Geng went into playoffs being 4th in the league. PRX were ass at internationals, but regionals they were the best team in pacific, and only lost to drx and geng in playoffs.
Making 2 back to back finals, winning one. I'd say trumps making one podium and missing an event. Sen are just too inconsistent to be a better team imo. This is overall, not just Sen vs Geng. in matchups its a cointoss. Overall this year, GenG has been a better team.
their shanghai run was against second rate competition bro.
G2 didnt do anything in champs and somehow made top 3 in shanghai, they also didnt qual for madrid
Lev bombed in shanghai cause of a choke
PRX didnt even perform to half their regional level
FNC got taken out BY FUT
EDG just decided they wanted to wait for another event
FPX probably the 5-4th best in the tourney got taken out in groups
GENG didnt even sweat in the grand finals thats how horrendous the competition was
Gen.G: 2nd Madrid, 1st Shanghai, 9-12th at Champs.
Sentinels: 1st Madrid, didn't qual for shanghai, 4th at Champs.
Not to mention Sentinels didn't make regional playoffs for stage 1 and bombed out of the stage 2 playoffs
Gen.G got second during playoffs for stage 1 and were the stage 2 champions.
i'd say its like 65/35 for gen.g having the better year
(This is some debatable statistics because this is how I personally rank the team's performance this year)
for me champs is clearly slightly worth more, I'll increase the score by 2. also since champs according to you is more prestigious I'll give 1 point for every team participating in champs :D
masters:
1st place: 4
2nd place: 3
3rd place: 2
4th place: 1
champs :
1st place: 6
2nd place: 5
3rd place: 4
4th place: 3
playoffs: 2
in champs: 1
GENG = 3 + 4 + 1 = 8
SEN = 4 + 0 + 3 = 7
GENG > SEN
(The only way for Sen to be above GENG here is if 4th place champs is worth 5 points which is ridiculous since I don't think champs 4th place is worth more than masters 1st place or if the participation point for champs is removed, but that will contradict your statement of saying champs is worth more, since the teams that qualified for champs is clearly better right?, so we'll keep the participation point).
I'm being generous to sentinels (I was contemplating if I should give them negative score because they didn't qualify for Shanghai but decided against it)
tldr: GENG > SEN (but not by much according to my metric)
So, what point system do you rank the teams (please use numbers)
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