Leo vs Aspas

LEO
Leo Initiator 2024: Top 1
Leo Initiator 2023: Top 1
Leo Initiator 2022: Top 5 (with Crashies, Sacy, Shao, Zest)
Leo Initiator 2021: Top 7-8 (with Chronicle, Hiko, Crashies, Shahzam)
Leo Trophies: 2
Leo Finals: 2
Leo International Appearances: 5 (5th is Shanghai)
Leo Teams: 2

ASPAS
Aspas Duelist 2024: Top 1-2 (with t3xture)
Aspas Duelist 2023: Top 4-5 (with Derke, Demon1, something)
Aspas Duelist 2022: Top 1-2 (with yay)
Aspas Duelist 2021: Whomegalul
Aspas Trophies: 1
Aspas Finals: 3
Aspas International Appearances: 7 (7th is Shanghai)
Aspas Teams: 2

who's the goat

If Aspas had no beef with Less and stayed in LOUD, he'd be in higher places with all stats lets be honest.

Leo hard clears regular season merchant asp0s

Aspas cause he’s constantly doing the things he does and has been the best player in the world for 2-3 years.

So much hate for a humble guy that doesnt talk shit and is good at his job

Aspas if he never left LOUD would gap everyone

donkkomong [#2]

If Aspas had no beef with Less and stayed in LOUD, he'd be in higher places with all stats lets be honest.

nvm read #8

donkkomong [#2]

If Aspas had no beef with Less and stayed in LOUD, he'd be in higher places with all stats lets be honest.

He never had beef with Less, stop spreading this shit holy fuck

He left LOUD because of the org

number1_cned_hater [#5]

So much hate for a humble guy that doesnt talk shit and is good at his job

leo or aspas
or both?

sentinelmain377 [#9]

leo or aspas
or both?

Le0

sentinelmain377 [#9]

leo or aspas
or both?

wdym i've not seen a single negative post about leo in the 2 years that i've been on the website

annoybrocc02 [#11]

wdym i've not seen a single negative post about leo in the 2 years that i've been on the website

ikr

Look, i'm a long time EU fan, mostly Fnatic (League + Valorant) and G2 (League) from league to Valorant for over a decade, and as much as i love Leo as the next Fnatic fan, Aspas is just way too impressive as a solo duelist to not consider as the best duelist atm, and the natural of the role and his playstyle just makes him very hard to not be considered as the best player right now.
You just knows whatever duelist role/agent you wanna put him on, he either gonna carry the whole team even with an Ascent only Radiant AverageJonas on the team or just crash with the team cause he's outnumbered.

Leo, chronicle, Alfajer are to me the goats, with Chronicle being the absolute man. But unless i'm like 15 years younger, i don't have enough bias to shit on the players on the other teams to bring them up.

Even if Leo is consistently the best on initiator and Aspas is consistently around top 3 on duelist, duelist is WAY harder to be considered the best at with how much the aim ceiling improves each year

aspas reg szn mvp - 1
Leo reg szn mvp - 0

https://valorantesports.com/news/valorant-champions-tour-2023-end-of-season-awards/en-us

SomeoneLikeU [#4]

Aspas cause he’s constantly doing the things he does and has been the best player in the world for 2-3 years.

2022: yay, shao, mako, marved all cleared asspiss

2023: alfajer, leo, less, demon1 all cleared asspiss

2024: diffed by cn00b

dort [#16]

2022: yay, shao, mako, marved all cleared asspiss

2023: alfajer, leo, less, demon1 all cleared asspiss

2024: diffed by cn00b

and yet only half the list have made an international tournament this year, 2 of which being on the same team.

aspas was #1 in 2023.. by far

I feel like there's a conspiracy going on cuz everyone is just collective changing history surrounding Aspas and no seems to bat an eye. Aspas was not even a top 10 player in 2022 how was he a top 2 duelist. He was one of the least important player in loud's championship run but everyone is acting like he's been a top 3 player in his career. I know no goat in esport that has not performed internationally. The only time hes in the top 3 convo was in last year's regular season and the past month

ZekaTheGoat [#19]

I feel like there's a conspiracy going on cuz everyone is just collective changing history surrounding Aspas and no seems to bat an eye. Aspas was not even a top 10 player in 2022 how was he a top 2 duelist. He was one of the least important player in loud's championship run but everyone is acting like he's been a top 3 player in his career. I know no goat in esport that has not performed internationally. The only time hes in the top 3 convo was in last year's regular season and the past month

true

chsnvictr [#18]

aspas was #1 in 2023.. by far

this is just straight up wrong

for 2023:

1. Leo
2. Alfajer
3. Chronicle
4. Derke
5. Demon1???
6. rest of players

ZekaTheGoat [#19]

I feel like there's a conspiracy going on cuz everyone is just collective changing history surrounding Aspas and no seems to bat an eye. Aspas was not even a top 10 player in 2022 how was he a top 2 duelist. He was one of the least important player in loud's championship run but everyone is acting like he's been a top 3 player in his career. I know no goat in esport that has not performed internationally. The only time hes in the top 3 convo was in last year's regular season and the past month

aspas is the king of regular season, then disappears in big games

the real version

Leo 2021
Global Rank Not in Top 5. Regional Rank #2 (behind Chronicle)
Leo 2022
Global Rank #5 ( behind Sacy, Crashies, Shao, Zest). Regional Rank #2 (behind Shao)
Leo 2023
Global Rank #1 (and hence, regionally too)
Leo 2024 (based on the VCT 2024 Circuit which is Kickoff -> End of Group Stage at Shanghai at the time of writing)
Global Rank #4 (behind Sacy/Lakia, Sacy/Lakia, Riens). Regional Rank #2 (behind Riens)

Aspas 2021
N/A
Aspas 2022
Global Rank #2 (OPTC YAY) Regional Rank #2 (if you group it as americas like it is now, otherwise clearly #1 in brazil lmao)
Aspas 2023
Global Rank #2 (EG Demon1) Regional Rank #2 (EG Demon1)
Aspas 2024 (based on the VCT 2024 Circuit which is Kickoff -> End of Group Stage at Shanghai at the time of writing)
Global Rank #3 (Texture, Zekken) Regional Rank #2 (Zekken)

Decide for yourself.

You have to be a Quebecer, no Canadian is this miserable and unbearable

dort [#22]

aspas is the king of regular season, then disappears in big games

bro doesnt remember reykjavic grand finals

2022 lil bro is NOT 5th
bcj amd benkai clear

dort [#22]

aspas is the king of regular season, then disappears in big games

lil bro doesnt remember champs grand final

Hades_Loves_Rb [#26]

2022 lil bro is NOT 5th
bcj amd benkai clear

bcj was pretty good
but Leo is still better

bcj just had a better team

Yuh_aye [#23]

the real version

Leo 2021
Global Rank Not in Top 5. Regional Rank #2 (behind Chronicle)
Leo 2022
Global Rank #5 ( behind Sacy, Crashies, Shao, Zest). Regional Rank #2 (behind Shao)
Leo 2023
Global Rank #1 (and hence, regionally too)
Leo 2024 (based on the VCT 2024 Circuit which is Kickoff -> End of Group Stage at Shanghai at the time of writing)
Global Rank #4 (behind Sacy/Lakia, Sacy/Lakia, Riens). Regional Rank #2 (behind Riens)

Aspas 2021
N/A
Aspas 2022
Global Rank #2 (OPTC YAY) Regional Rank #2 (if you group it as americas like it is now, otherwise clearly #1 in brazil lmao)
Aspas 2023
Global Rank #2 (EG Demon1) Regional Rank #2 (EG Demon1)
Aspas 2024 (based on the VCT 2024 Circuit which is Kickoff -> End of Group Stage at Shanghai at the time of writing)
Global Rank #3 (Texture, Zekken) Regional Rank #2 (Zekken)

Decide for yourself.

delusional about the Leo 2024 (he is clearly #1, Riens 2, Sacy 3, Lakia 4)
also I said Leo is top 7-8 in 2021, not top 5

sentinelmain377 [#21]

this is just straight up wrong

for 2023:

1. Leo
2. Alfajer
3. Chronicle
4. Derke
5. Demon1???
6. rest of players

u said duelist and aspas had a better 2023 than derke and demon1

LuffyVlr [#8]

He never had beef with Less, stop spreading this shit holy fuck

He left LOUD because of the org

aspas wanted more money didnt he ??

chsnvictr [#30]

u said duelist and aspas had a better 2023 than derke and demon1

aspas was not #1 duelist in 2023
u are tripping

sentinelmain377 [#32]

aspas was not #1 duelist in 2023
u are tripping

just duelist? yeah easily

derke cant compare

sentinelmain377 [#29]

delusional about the Leo 2024 (he is clearly #1, Riens 2, Sacy 3, Lakia 4)
also I said Leo is top 7-8 in 2021, not top 5

The first line is so delusional I don't even know whether I should address it or not, but supposing you're genuine. lets compare Leo to everyone at that list
Kickoff
Sacy - 1st Place /1.06 Rating / Qualified for Masters
Lakia - 1st Place/ 0.90 Rating / Qualified for Masters
Riens - 2nd Place/ 1.02 Rating / Qualified for Masters
Leo - 3rd-4th Place/ 1.05 Rating / Did not Qualify for Masters

Madrid
Sacy - 1st Place 0.97 Rating
Lakia - 2nd Place 0.85 Rating
Reins - 7-8th 1.15 Rating
Leo - Did not Qualify 0.0 Rating

Stage 1
Sacy - 7-8th 0.94 Rating
Lakia - 2nd Place 0.95 Rating
Riens - 2nd Place 1.02 Rating
Leo - 1st Place 1.16 Rating

Avg Placement / Avg Rating for VCT 2024 so far

Sacy 3.33 Place / .99 Rating
Lakia 1.33 Place / .88 Rating
Riens 4th Place / 1.06 Rating
Leo 5th Place / 0.73 Rating (this is by generously imputing a hypothetical 10th place finish at Madrid)

So clearly, the others have been better.

As for the Second Line, I understood that, but i put "Not in top 5" to signify he wasn't elite because imo being top 5 in your position signifies a "World Class" status.

Froggy0_0 [#31]

aspas wanted more money didnt he ??

who doesnt want more money? Less learning english and prolly gonna leave loud 2. They deserve bags for being amazing fucking players.

Yuh_aye [#34]

The first line is so delusional I don't even know whether I should address it or not, but supposing you're genuine. lets compare Leo to everyone at that list
Kickoff
Sacy - 1st Place /1.06 Rating / Qualified for Masters
Lakia - 1st Place/ 0.90 Rating / Qualified for Masters
Riens - 2nd Place/ 1.02 Rating / Qualified for Masters
Leo - 3rd-4th Place/ 1.05 Rating / Did not Qualify for Masters

Madrid
Sacy - 1st Place 0.97 Rating
Lakia - 2nd Place 0.85 Rating
Reins - 7-8th 1.15 Rating
Leo - Did not Qualify 0.0 Rating

Stage 1
Sacy - 7-8th 0.94 Rating
Lakia - 2nd Place 0.95 Rating
Riens - 2nd Place 1.02 Rating
Leo - 1st Place 1.16 Rating

Avg Placement / Avg Rating for VCT 2024 so far

Sacy 3.33 Place / .99 Rating
Lakia 1.33 Place / .88 Rating
Riens 4th Place / 1.06 Rating
Leo 5th Place / 0.73 Rating (this is by generously imputing a hypothetical 10th place finish at Madrid)

So clearly, the others have been better.

As for the Second Line, I understood that, but i put "Not in top 5" to signify he wasn't elite because imo being top 5 in your position signifies a "World Class" status.

????????

1. Leo wasnt at Madrid. How tf can you just put that 0.0 rating in the average. That is most fucking retarded shit Ive ever seen.
2. Why tf does rating matter? (even tho Leo still wins in rating) Leo is the best initiator as he has the best utility usage, makes very little to none mistakes, and is a great 2nd caller on his team.

please stfu with this fucking bullshit

sentinelmain377 [#36]

????????

1. Leo wasnt at Madrid. How tf can you just put that 0.0 rating in the average. That is most fucking retarded shit Ive ever seen.
2. Why tf does rating matter? (even tho Leo still wins in rating) Leo is the best initiator as he has the best utility usage, makes very little to none mistakes, and is a great 2nd caller on his team.

please stfu with this fucking bullshit

1. Thats the punishment for missing a masters. Once Shanghai finishes and we have the complete stats we can recompute this and sacy will be punished just the same way. But as of right now these numbers (with some caveats i will address below) gives us a simple estimate of the success they have had regionally and internationally.

2. You are correct, neither rating nor any stats analysis will ever tell the whole story about quality of competition, role in the team, effect on the meta, etc. For example, nothing in the above reflects how the way Sacy played gekko on Sunset influenced the way that map is played.

3. Another problem with this method is that it values all the events equally. Is there an objective way to compare events? As i said in point 2, there is no way to OBJECTIVELY determine these things, or many other aspects of game performance. What we can do is put numbers like these in context, and then reason about them. The point of the whole thing was that by simple number crunching, there is a strong case for multiple players above Leo at this point in time for 2024. Of course, most people don't need to see the numbers to know that someone who won an international event in a given year had a better year than someone else who hasn't won a single international match in that year. But this assumes we are being reasonable. Your take about Leo in 2024 isnt reasonable.

sentinelmain377 [#36]

????????

1. Leo wasnt at Madrid. How tf can you just put that 0.0 rating in the average. That is most fucking retarded shit Ive ever seen.
2. Why tf does rating matter? (even tho Leo still wins in rating) Leo is the best initiator as he has the best utility usage, makes very little to none mistakes, and is a great 2nd caller on his team.

please stfu with this fucking bullshit

Here I'll make it even easier for you to comprehend. What do you think would be a good order to rank for these players? Remember that there is no objectively right or wrong answer, just go with what you think is the most reasonable.

Player A
Good Regional Performance / Solid Regional Achievements
Good International Performance, Great International Achievements

Player B
Good Regional Performance / Very Good Regional Achievements
Solid International Performance/ Very Good International Achievements

Player C
Very Good Regional Performance / Very Good Regional Achievements
Great International Performance / Poor International Achievements

Player D
Great Regional Performance / Good Regional Achievements
No International Performance/ No International Achievements

Aspas does not bait his teammates

sentinelmain377 [#9]

leo or aspas
or both?

Aspas

_amBrian [#14]

Even if Leo is consistently the best on initiator and Aspas is consistently around top 3 on duelist, duelist is WAY harder to be considered the best at with how much the aim ceiling improves each year

you do understand that leo is one of the most consistent players and also one of the most disciplined players in the world. The numbers he puts up while playing so disciplined is insane. He is forsure without a doubt the better player.

sentinelmain377 [#36]

????????

1. Leo wasnt at Madrid. How tf can you just put that 0.0 rating in the average. That is most fucking retarded shit Ive ever seen.
2. Why tf does rating matter? (even tho Leo still wins in rating) Leo is the best initiator as he has the best utility usage, makes very little to none mistakes, and is a great 2nd caller on his team.

please stfu with this fucking bullshit

leo is one of the only semi decent players from emea but you can't even bring up his rating since he is playing in a farmers league

annoybrocc02 [#11]

wdym i've not seen a single negative post about leo in the 2 years that i've been on the website

Literally only people I've seen talk shit about him are either NA or fake flag APAC (The Majority of PRX flairs).

Leo is clear atm

sentinelmain377 [#21]

this is just straight up wrong

for 2023:

1. Leo
2. Alfajer
3. Chronicle
4. Derke
5. Demon1???
6. rest of players

derke 4th?
lock/in: not even top 5
tokyo: 5th
champs: kkkkkkkkkk

I dont think it's fair to compare different roles, simply Aspas is the 🐐 duelist and Leo is the 🐐 initiator...