Giants penalized for VCT Breeze exploit

#1

wind_vlr

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LOL that's what you get for exploiting, then your teammates lie that they didn't know about it

#2

Macrito

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I don´t know what the hell is going on with Giants using exploits, they were warned for doing that in the past, but well, nice penalty by the organization.

#4

xd_mau5

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Different roster in that time

#3

kyLeria_

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finally

#5

ranker11

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Should've penalised within 24 hours of reporting. G2 got guild reported in 24 hours why did it take so long against giants?

#8

Mortadelo

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Because technically the bug wasn’t on the exploit list.
It is clarely an exploit but I guess they tried to use the legal void

#6

BirdB0i

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deserved

#7

dlkfps

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ferferewr

#9

k1ng1namo

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I think it's a fair punishment

#10

jkaz

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deserved

#11

RRoadRRunneRR

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this should also be ban worthy in matchmaking! using bugs = getting banned!

#75

Hact

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it is. when you report someone it says cheating is 'using exploits' and/or third party cheats
edit: typo

#12

Danzo

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g2 moment

#13

dignityx3

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Bad decision, bug wasnt listed as an official bug within riot's list of banned bugs according to many people

#14

RRoadRRunneRR

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dude, using BUGS is FORBIDDEN! it doesnt have to be listed since they dont set the "bugs" on purpose in the maps!

they deserve a ban since this is cheating (cheating = using uinfair methods to get advantage over others)

they obv thought the enemies wouldnt report it anyway...

#15

dignityx3

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https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1410237857143443458

They didnt know it was a bug, it wasnt intentional, it wasnt listed. Its not justified to punish them, they didnt even get any warnings.

#17

hellaeleganceyeah

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mf looking through walls how is that not a bug lmao

#19

dignityx3

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No? U could only see A main entrance and front site

#20

hellaeleganceyeah

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and from the entrance the attackers cannot see the cam. bug means something isnt the way it is supposed to be, in this case the attackers should be able to shoot the cam while the defending cypher is watching hd footage getting valuable info

#21

dignityx3

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Thats not the point. Theres no proof to suggest that they KNEW it was a bug and took advantage of it. It's a bug, whatever, but again, it wasnt intentional, the giants players stated. They didnt even get any warnings at all.

#25

hellaeleganceyeah

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if they dont have the competitive integrity to not use a bugged cam then they deserve the punishment

#26

dignityx3

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What? that's completely false, because again, your premise is wrong. They didnt KNOW it was a bugged cam, thats the point. they didnt know it was a bug and that it wasnt allowed to be used, they had no warnings or heads-up from anyone prior. They have literally said it was not intentional abuse

#48

array

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The point is they are competent enough to identify whats a bug or not since its their jobnto play the game. If nobody in a team thought that this is worth checking with riot then they are total retards. Half gold ranked player base would be shifty about it so you hold pros at a very low standard

continue thread →

#58

hellaeleganceyeah

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"didnt know it was a bugged cam" mf they cant shoot the cam back how is that not a bugged cam. iron lobbies can decide that is a bugged cam and these guys are pros.

continue thread →

#44

Origin

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my guy said hd footage lmfaooo

#22

RRoadRRunneRR

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Your twitter even says "cam couldn't be destroyed by the Attackers". Yea, that's obv LEGAL shit!

#24

dignityx3

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It could be actually, if u went deep in site. Just because the ones using it didnt know doesnt mean they were intentionally abusing it. Again, I am not arguing against it being a bug, because it is a bug. Its about them getting punished, which isnt justified due to not knowing.

#16

DELUSIONAL_NUKKYE_FAN

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ah, yes because every bug has been discovered and banned by riot

#28

Sh00ka

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don't think you get eSports. just because it's not on a "list" doesn't mean it's ok it's a glitch it's wrong it's unsportsmanlike and to be truthful incredibly scummy so I feel this punishment is actually VERY LIGHT they got off easy

#29

dignityx3

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Of course its not 'ok', but that doesnt mean its their fault and they should get punished for it? They literally said it was not intentional, they did not know it was a bug.

#30

Shanty

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Come on, they knew it was intentional. They would have had these Cypher cam setups days to weeks in advance. I don’t know how you can’t look at that and at least know if you use it you are playing with fire. Go up to a TO before the match and ask their ruling.

#37

dignityx3

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No they didnt, they literally stated they didnt know it was a bug and even opened up a ticket with Riot Support to talk about it. They had no clue it was a bug. And the statement that they would've had it days to weeks in advance still doesnt matter, because they were unaware of it being a bug for days to weeks in advance as well then? If they didnt know it was a bug then they wouldnt have any reason to go to a TO in the first place... so that's invalid

#66

pipsoN

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We didnt knew it was a bug because of 2 reasons.
1) before every VCT PRO teams get the list of bugs which you CAN and CAN'T use, it was not listed there in any ways, so its partly our fault, it was not listed as bug, or not a bug
2) We never ever wanted to abuse it, if you will look in the way Meddo putted the camera, he never had a vision of A main, so he never really wanted to FULLY take advantage of it.
We pracced Breeze a few times before this VCT event, cause we had a lot of problems with the other maps etc. So it WASN'T THEORY CRAFTED using camera monthly or anything, it was just like the guy saying I saw you can put a passive camera, you can put it, thats it.
https://sun9-65.userapi.com/impg/cleSgbmA_g29jW1jxdwDrloOA7YyTzWSjhBi_A/jca6styYi0s.jpg?size=1280x720&quality=96&sign=21f81c7a57e6cd7b18665b38c431944d&type=album
You can check how USUALLY was his camera.
We didnt try to abuse it, cause 7/13 rounds Meddo played on B site, and OVERALL this camera was used 6/13 rounds in the CT side, if we ever wanted to abuse it, we would PUT SUPER DEEP CAMERA to see A main, and do it 13 rounds in a row.
People saying that NOT KNOWING the law, doesnt let you go free. I completely agree with them, but what if in the LAW nothing said about it. For example you go shop, buy COLA, and then you get prisoned, because buying COLA is forbidden after 1 week you bought it, but you didnt know it when you did it.
Im not saying we are full innocent, its our fault, we accept it. But Im tired of hearing we TRIED TO ABUSE IT. When he literally played Anchor B more then Anchor A, at the same time I sent you vision of his camera :D
And stop saying WE SEE THROUGH WALLS, there is a gap in the wall from both sides, but because of the angle T side has, they cant see this camera
https://twitter.com/haloofthoughts/status/1410244830836445185
Here is the proof of it having gaps from both sides, and not us seeing through the wall, but because camera close to this gap, it sees bigger through this gap

#67

ilikerubikscubes

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So basically you're saying that because you can put the cam there, and it looked like a normal cam that just basically watches the front of the pyramids, you used it.
Guess that makes sense. GL

#68

pipsoN

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We respect the decisions of admin, and of course we will follow it, we are not trying to argue that we are full innocent, my main point is that we never ever wanted to abuse it, cause we didnt do it intentionally. That's it

#70

ilikerubikscubes

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I understand. Hope Riot fixes shit like this. It can be devastating and game changing. GL on your future.

#69

Shanty

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Sorry if it came across like I was saying you were abusing it. By no means do I mean you are some dirty cheaters. That wasn't my intention. Now I do believe there is obvious grey area there to be concerned, but if you say you truly didn't know then it really is unfortunate. I will say your post is probably better directed to be it's own post. I think this was my single comment in this thread. The situation is really unfortunate, but I do truly hope the best for you guys in the future.

#71

pipsoN

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Again its nothing against you or anything, it's more like an overall post bro, its just a little bit tired of people saying we abused it and how we didnt know about it etc. :D

#18

EU_quiet

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Bro doesn't even look like a bug... tf is this?

#27

The_IroN_xD

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The cam could not be destroyed by attackers, so I think it qualifies as a bug....

#23

GetsystheGr8

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Lololololololololololol

#31

wellinever

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no way should this be a ban, if it was known it should be patched end of story.
There are plenty of sova darts that are used, for example mid on icebox, that arent able to be shot and i bet this isnt penalised.....

a silly cam is banned, yet we can have KJ, Viper and Brim all sat in spawn lining up mollys, for after plants...
lets focus on the things that NEED fixing before you kill the game, and people get bored of watching a plant go down and no one being able to defuse...

#32

Shanty

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LOL It wasn't a ban.... Your entire comment it out of left field.

#33

Selex

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Wtf? Using post-plant utility to deny a bomb defuse is not equivalent to exploiting, nor will it ever be considered such. Maybe the sova darts should be looked at if that's true. The rest of your post is nonsense.

#34

ValdemieGC

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It should have been punished in time. Now, what do Bref. won for that punishment? I think Riot should have punished Giants with a lose on Breeze.

#35

ArrowAmnesia

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I've seen like 3 different teams use this and there are probably more...

#36

ideekae

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I don’t think this is a good precedent to set for the future. There is a good possibility that this isn’t intentional. From the cypher’s POV, the cam looks like a perfectly legit cam. Most pro cyphers just go in customs and place cams wherever they can. There’s a chance he noticed it was bugged, there was a chance he didn’t. Punishing off of weak evidence like this is gonna lead the way for even sketchier rulings later, and players will be scared to experiment with unique util placement/usage, fearing it might be counted as a “bug”.

I don’t even think the punishment was appropriate, given the amount of doubt around the bug. They should’ve just not counted breeze and arranged to play another map.

#39

The_IroN_xD

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true, but giants probably realized that it was a cam that could not be destroyed, and it is possible to check up with Riot referee to see if this is allowed. If there's a chance that something can be considered an "exploit," the team should try reaching out to the referees or just not use it at all.

#40

The_IroN_xD

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Of course, I don't really think that the punishments was fair, but it could have been easily avoided.

#41

ideekae

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Keyword “probably”. It’s even more ambiguous than that, honestly.

#42

Mortadelo

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I agree and disagree, the punishment is not the correct one, but the reason of the punishment should never be the intention, should be the result. Not knowing the law doesn’t mean that you don’t how to follow it

#43

array

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Riot: wtf are you doing with this camera?
Giant representative: with what? Oh thaaaat camera... That's an exploit? Oh golly jee we didnt know, sorry

#55

idkmate99

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You don't think that using a cam that can see through walls and not be shot is a bug, or are we just going to pretend a pro thinks that's normal and fair? What are you smoking?

#56

ideekae

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Ofc it’s a bug. But it’s quite ambiguous whether the cam was intentionally used exploitatively.

#38

array

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Valorant making game more fair than football where you can roll on the ground whenever you want at the end ofnthe game when you are in a lead

#45

CeeRN

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dont put it in the game if u dont want it to happen #noobz

#46

maldoror

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I'm still in the belief that players using bugs to their advantage within the rulebook or not should be acknowledge for their ingenious findings. The fnatic olaf boost, the fountain hook, bhopping in CSS, iceclimber grab in smash, etc. Some are better for the game then intended like balanced bhopping in csgo or wave canceling in smash but all require skill to use.

#47

array

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No. You just like unfair advantage, you are opportunist which is the opposite of fairness. Just admit it and dont try to justify that shit with "skill". Olof boost requires skill... Sure

#52

maldoror

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Don't assume things, I never said I liked unfair advantages? I'm just saying its important to acknowledge the skill and game knowledge it takes to find some of these exploits and that some exploits have ended up as being a part of the games. Lot of cyphers utility is definitely not used the way its intended, such as trips in various places on bind/ascent that are unshootable unless through a wall(or even placed on small microscopic bumps in the ground)and even KJ mollies that go through floors where you can't even shoot them b4 hand. Be civil.

#62

array

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Man you're so full of shit.

#53

arturo_fdez

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They used an exploit and its perfect they receive a penalty for that. But this is nonsense. Who thought it was a good idea taking out one map from a tournament that hasnt even started xd. If someone uses an exploit u have to penalize in the series they used it, or in the next round. But not in another tournament lmao

#57

LokiTronix

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Claro, que los penalicen en ese partido y tenga que repetirse todo el bracket, y que Rix.gg que juega mañana tenga que jugar otra vez para clasificarse al closed qualifier y a su vez al main event XD

#64

arturo_fdez

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Es que se tenía que haber tomado la decisión cuando ocurrió. O repetir mapa, o dárselo por perdido y 0-2. No habría que repetir bracket. Ahora lógicamente no van a hacerlo, tmp tendría sentido. Pero coincidirás conmigo en que no tiene sentido que les penalicen en un torneo que todavía no ha ni empezado

#65

Selex

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No estoy de acuerdo. Las consecuencias son importantes para disuadir a las personas de la explotación.

#54

Scottyboi30

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Bruh it’s a cam that can see into A cave so what it’s not game breaking, how did they even qualify, no so why a punishment. The map penalty at least should come when they come into their first bo3 not in a bo1

#60

raka_gg

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#FreeGiants

Fix your game riot, it's not their fault

Edit: and this 1 map punishment is also bullshit, it's basically giving their next opponent a free win when they had no connection to the incident

#61

Nandito

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Nooo justo Hitboxking estaba hablando de esto

#74

Fervi

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No se que les pasó. Seguramente se despistaron y ya está. Eso espero...

#76

Mortadelo

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xD