Why are so many people in ranked dogshit at smokes? Talking about orb smokes in particular, so not viper/harbor

I'm in fairly high elo and so many people literally can't even do the basics right. I know it's not as brainless as running it down on reyna, but it's not that hard.

Like on ascent A heaven they're putting them all the way out so people can walk out with them. Or they're just not smoking when you're hitting site and only do it after you've basically lost the round dying to crossfires

And then when you mention it "BRO I don't play smokes !!!"

Fraudnatic are less accomplished than Ange1 and Redgar, who both got 1 legit

1 > 1*

I guess Xeppa, Dephh, and Russ must be the greatest players of all time

I also don't understand why so many Fnatic flairs take so much pride in not being able to read, but if you think of who they support, it actually does make sense in a way

Firstly, you acknowledged the point is true. Nothing has been refuted.

The playoffs for the World Cup is single elim but no-one starts going "L format" because of that, it has prestige because every country has a chance to win

real sports != esports, And are you sure about no-one?. Most events that aren't double elim have to do with either logistics or physicality or because of variance that is uncontrollable. The world cup would be extremely long (logistics)(brings the city its hosted in to a halt). It's not a good idea to have multiple boxing bouts to decide the champ or for the superbowl matchup to be multiple times for athlete safety reasons (physicality). If you ran or swam the 200m final multiple times, you could feasibly have multiple winners. How do you decide which is the 'real' outcome? You can't, so you just run it once (variance). etc.

Single elim just requires your team not to choke

Could say the exact same thing about random-agent select.

If any team at lockin like Nrg Loud c9 or 100T should of won(I name these teams because you're an americas cringer) why didn't they, because they played worse than the team that beat them or crumbled

Do you think the strength of Furia's performance vs FNC and KC's vs LOUD at Lock-in were solidly representative of their true strength and should be taken as a serious result? What about GENG vs LOUD? or C9 vs PRX?

Second not gonna cut it unfortunately, when we're talking about the GOAT we're talking about the highest possible standard, so we have to nitpick.

Also, even after Loud won, Yay was still by far the consensus best player in the game

He's the most accomplished, but by most definitions of GOAT you have to be considered the best player in the world at some point in time to be in the convo of the greatest of all time

EDG is the best team in the world, something fnatic has never been. Even Ange1 and Redgar are more accomplished than Fraudnatic.

Jawgemo 3rd, after aspas and zekken

Com plays fade and viper aswell, so scan initiator that flexes to viper

Ethan plays flash initiator (Kayo Skye Breach) and sometimes flexes to Yoru (basically another flash initiator)

Jawgemo too low, also where are ethan and com?

everyone on Team Horrible got small shoulders from not lifting trophies 🥱🥱

bro did not watch loud vs edg sunset at madrid

he's a pretty decent off-meta pick

agree everything but yoru icebox, thats literally by far the worst yoru map in the game

especially like the sova bind, I actually once won a tourney playing sova on bind

not a big bind omen believer tbh

but heavy fw icebox omen, especially before they changed the crates near B cubby

i play with/against a harbor on abyss fairly often actually

maybe its just me though

harbor is not underrated on abyss LOL

but the rest I agree

another good one is Phoenix Sunset

I got a three big ones I think are slept on

Brim on Icebox - Ok hear me out, you still need a viper for defense, but he's actually so OP for attack if you can get bomb down without man disadvantage. The postplant molly buys so much time, and the stim is also perfect for attack because attack on icebox you're just running back and forth in spawn during the midrounding

Sage on Bind - Wall for safe plant on A, the slows are really good to stop site hits and floods, and having a sage heal midround + the skye heal is so nice. (just don't be named ardiss)

Brim on Ascent - not having the omen blind is tough, but the smokes last longer and the molly / ult are really impactful

https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/nytrizu%23court/overview

Proof : https://www.vlr.gg/391577/tracker-4-tracker #35

those are the peaks during the acts genius, not where he ended them. I can find you random ass players that have been #1 or top 10 at some point because they played a bunch at the start of the act

Neon is buffed E8A3 June 11th, towards the very end of the act (ends June 25th).

E6A2 is the first time he hits imm3

From E6A2 -> E8A3 he is radiant twice, once on E8A2 (undisclosed where exactly, based off everything previous safe to assume very low), and E8A3, where he is bottom of the barrel #499

Next act, E9A1, with neon buff in full effect he ends top 100, #89

Where does it ever say he was #219/#139 goofball, are you just making shit up? Do you have a different tracker from the rest of us?

The difference between Jingg's raze and Temet (or anyone's) Neon is that Raze is an incredibly skillfull agent. Notoriously hard to be great at (ask koalanoob).

He's not getting his raze value from unskilled game mechanics. And take a look away from pro-play for a second, where would Jingg be if he didn't play raze? He'd still be a top radiant. Because underneath, you still need to be good at the actual game of valorant to be good at raze.

Where would Eggster be without Yoru (the hardest agent in the game that takes alot of game sense to maximize value out of)? Somewhere in radiant.

Where would Temet be without neon? He'd fall off the map, because Neon isn't fundamentally a skill-rewarding agent, it's currently entirely built around run-n-gun.

SUMMARY : HES NOT GOOD AT THE GAME HES JUST GOOD AT NEON, ITS A CRUTCH THAT SIGNIFICANTLY BOOSTS HIM BECAUSE ITS NOT SKILLED. THE SAME IS NOT TRUE FOR EGGSTER OR JINGG, THEY'D STILL BE CLOSE TO WHERE THEY ARE WITHOUT THEIR MAIN BECAUSE THOSE AGENTS REQUIRE SKILL. NOTICE THE PARRALLEL BETWEEN NEON AND PRIME CHAMBER (REREAD THE SUMMARY)

Jesus you think the entire world reduces to statistics? Is the only way to convince you an agent is broken through it having a high pick rate? You know what this reminds me of? The topic of the post: back in fortnite when controller players said aim assist wasn't OP do you know what was their favorite argument? It was that if you looked at the statistics of earnings and placements keyboard players still dominated. It didn't matter what you said or how many obvious ways it was OP or how many shitters were clearly boosted by it, statistically Keyboard players > Controller so at the end of the day you were just cherrypicking. Literally history repeating itself.

I'm gonna explain this one last time:

Neon boosts players above their skill level. Why does it do that? Because the fundamental way they get value is skill-less. You can see this in action from examining temet, and many others across different ranks. Does Temet being a one-trick disprove this? NO. Do you know where eggster would be if he didn't play Yoru for a month? Somewhere in Radiant. Where would Temet be? Fighting for his life in imm1. Every agent has one-tricks. But only some agents are crutches, E.X. Prime Chamber and current Neon. Viper used to be overpowered, but have you ever heard of someone being called viper crutch?

I make a point about how it lets you play substantially above your actual skill level ->

I make other points about how the value you get out of neon is skill-less run-n-gun ->

I give an anecdote about a silver -> you say that's not enough because it's only one case->

I talk about temet - arguably the face of neon - where the exact same thing from the silver case is true -> "doesn't remotely prove my point"

Ok bro whatever you just can't accept the obvious. Do I need to go through every neon player to ever play before I can generalize?

If it's as good as it was last year, 2G is gonna get railed

Abyss, easily her best map

it literally both allowed a silver 1 to cook in a diamond avg lobby, and took a hardstuck imm3 (for 2 entire episodes) 1 trick to a top 100 player instantly

Bang's peak is higher but day-to-day zander > day-to-day bang

She's both

Naming a player who's good with neon and is good without neon (Zekken, Sayf, KangKang, Silentzz, etc), doesn't disprove neon being broken.

Yay being insane without chamber wasn't proof that chamber was balanced.

Yes I would rather die to jetts and raze's every time versus non-stop run and gun bullshit

mf is the most obvious neon crutch and yall trying to say its just singular games. Like did you even watch?

Did you even see Abyss? When he tried to dash CT (braindead play that works on neon) and got sat? mf was lost without his precious run-n-gun

she makes bad players look good is 100% incorrect

Compare Dante's neon yesterday vs his Iso and Jett

PREACH

It probably won't happen until top duelists who benefit from it start calling it out

https://www.vlr.gg/406179/neon-fortnite-aim-assist-and-history

an earthquake destroys your home and you're now homeless

'man people just don't like change'

NO SHIT IF ITS A CHANGE FOR THE WORSE. NOBODY WAS COMPLAINING WHEN STINGER OR CHAMBER GOT NERFED BECAUSE THAT WAS CHANGE FOR THE BETTER

Temet plays at a level far above his actual skill level due to neon, just like my silver friend. All of E6A2-E8A3 Temet is hardstuck imm3/ complete bottom of the barrel radiant (literally #499) Last few days of E8A3 neon gets buffed. The next act he ends #89. Top 100 radiant is notoriously different from bottom radiant, similar to the difference between imm1 and 3 (which is pretty big). Neon's buff (when she became broken) effectively boosted him 2-3 ranks.

I didn't even need to write all that about temet. It's obvious neon is broken, every point I made about her mechanics and game design points to people playing above their skill level with her. There is nothing skillful in being rewarded for bunnyhopping into people who can't effectively shoot back, or hitting accurate moving shots. That game design in and of itself lets you play at a skill level above your actual level, because the fundamental mechanisms its rewarding and is designed around is not skillful.

Well given that N4rrate is basically a perfect fit role wise, it only leaves a room for a smokes player. N4rrate (Fade, Gekko, Skye) and Zellsis (Breach, Kayo) take care of most of init, while duelist is Zekken most of the time, with Zekken taking Sova and N4rrate taking Jett on the Sova/Jett maps. I personally don't believe Jaw > Zander on smokes, based on recent evidence, and I think the vast majority of people agree

• its genuine
• the problem with neon is very stylistically similar to the problem with aim-assist, being different game genres doesn't change that
• they're very comparable, for all three reasons listed in the post
• not against pros obviously, and diamonds vs radiants is overstating it, but there's plenty of players of all ranks getting to places they shouldn't because of neon. all of E6A2-E8A3 Temet is hardstuck imm3/ complete bottom of the barrel radiant (literally #499) Last few days of E8A3 neon gets buffed. The next act he ends #89. Top 100 radiant is notoriously different from bottom radiant, similar to the difference between imm1 and 3 (which is pretty big).
• Yeah thats totally the only reason its not like its the lived experience of most of the val community dealing with neon bullshit almost nonstop. btw if you watched curry today he was calling neon broken for like 2 hours straight
• not as much as FN aim assist, but there's definitely a divide
• Curry was literally talking about it non-stop today
• go and watch the M80 match from today (especially the first two), and tell me how I'm supposed to counter neon, when half the shit you listed didn't stop one of the best teams in the world from getting absolutely obliterated by one. And take special note of Dante's neon performances vs his iso and jett.
• No it can't be said of every agent are you forreal? Has anybody ever been called a KAYO crutch?

ngl i personally fuck with the alfajer to duelist and + elite angle

https://www.vlr.gg/406207/best-case-scenario-rosters

pls put ur answer here too guys I wanna know lol

Interesting

gets cleared by EG screwface

N4rrate is also an insane jett, but also brings a huge agent pool that sen needs based on what they lost (does demon1 play fade, skye, gekko, etc?) He is easily the best fit available for SEN, leaving open a smokes role.

Demon1 doesn't really work, besides brim (easiest smokes in the game) he's only played astra. He's unproven on Omen/Viper which are much harder to master (especially viper).

Tenz unretiring isn't possible (yes in the literal sense it is possible, but that's not the point), and this is meant to be whats possible.

Jawgemo is debatable, but he hasn't played smokes in a long time, meanwhile zander is actively a proven stud on smokes (m80 doesn't go to finals tommorrow if zander doesn't go nuclear on sunset)

Yay is obviously a gamble for the reasons you described, and any rational person in SEN's position goes with zander over yay given the choice.

Dude, using Neon doesn't mean you'll automatically shoot the enemy in the head

Its not like I said playing Neon was an auto-win or that it's impossible to kill her

so when Neon starts sliding with an ult on someone, the game turns into Quake

I don't have as big as a problem with the ult as other people do, ults are supposed to be strong.

The problem is that val guns aren't like quake, so you can't effectively punish/counter neon normally even without the ult (on top of run-n-gun being stupid asf + letting bad players be good)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slander

Slander implies what I said was false or a misrepresentation. The only thing I ever got wrong in those 2 posts was a minor point about Cauanzin being a rookie. People have also stopped trying to contest it, because basically every avenue of cope was covered.

So that topic is over, it's much more important to set the record straight on Neon, which will be looked back like people look back on FN aim assist - bullshit that should've ended earlier than it did.

The point (neon letting people play at a level they shouldn't be at) I was getting at with the anecdote can stand alone. The essence of all my other points (neon being broken) directly imply it. The anecdote was the quickest and easiest way to get the first point across. Was everything I said generally about neon being broken (in conjuction with the anecdote) not enough to support the first point? Do I need to add an analysis on temet's ranked history to further convince you? Just say the word and I will

to be fair he did tag him a tiny bit, and the whole team threw not just sato, as well as everything being impeccably exploited by zander at the same time, wp to him.

I'm specifically interested on what FNC fans consider the best direction for the team to take

+Kaajak or + Xeus?

or maybe an alfa to full duelist and +elite angle?

and what about the boaster situation?

personally I think jawgemo would be the best move, but i respect the runback

bro have you ever watched zander play?

idk why this got downvoted, there is no possible roster move SEN could make that beats that, it's not even debatable.