Mfs going from 'RIP DRX' to 'Hyunmin is the next demon1' in the span of 20 mins

Its an off-season event. Just enjoy the matches and try not to jump to strong conclusions off of it, wait till season starts to do that.

If we are to take these super seriously then Xeppaa is in contention for best player in the world.

2g will not be the worst team next year

Gold players been doing this for years

It's not clear who's better, I got an open mind for next season but for now I'm on team zander. Bang has some game sense issues, bro just be dying with his knife out sometimes

If Zellsis had decided to retire or become a content creator/6th, this was technically possible:

Zekken - Duelist
Johnqt - Senti/IGL
N4rrate - Flex 1
Verno - Flex 2
Zander - Controller

He's vietnamese ethnically and from Texas. You can actually notice some of the southern twang in his voice during his streams

NA GC Champions losing in round 1 premier playoffs to nobodies

https://tracker.gg/valorant/match/65423775-055a-4f52-9660-65843f0fda78

Top GC teams regularly lose to t3 pug teams

Nobody is making franchising because of how they played in GC

if you consider how close nrg vs loud was, and how it basically took a miracle comeback for Fnc vs loud, its actually not unreasonable that they could've won Lock-In

Honestly considering the magnitude of throw that round was, that was pretty tame

Boaster is on the team

KRU saving strats for champs 25 (qualifier)

prime

.

guard

.

2022

True, all this over one line about why I gave FNS screwface in a hypothetical lmao

you didn't say best player, you said best mechanically:

infact valyn is the best player on g2 mechanics wise

I actually agree he's g2's best player, but he's not G2's best player mechanically. Leaf and now Jawgemo have better mechanics

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Also Oxy has previously smoked KangKang in a LAN a while back, before he even played an official match

https://youtu.be/C-HbvpS1nlo?si=RmiLthhEwv0qwiuB

Disagree, Oxy is alot better mechanically than both of them (not saying they're slouches either). And Leaf is (was) their best player mechanics wise (now jawgemo).

I actually consider Valyn the best IGL in the world currently on a pure individual level

But our hypothetical FNS/OXY combo is both a decently better caller and shooter

For reference, Oxy mopping the floor with KangKang this morning: https://tracker.gg/valorant/match/e3520968-a493-4179-90e8-8d5f19cb03c9

KOI winning all three events without dropping a map

Name the 'many' players you think can put Saadhak on the verge of tears because of their calling/IGLing

We're not talking about overall game intelligence, we're talking about IGLing. Riens isn't IGLing

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FNS is on an elite level IGL'ing, you mix that with Oxy level mechanics or near, and that's the best player in the world. Its that simple

And notice that the players you mentioned above OXY are the cream of the crop in valorant right now, so that's elite company to be with, reinforcing my point. (Imagine if any of those guys were doing that while IGLing)

fns with oxys mechanics will be the best player itw?

You're seriously underestimating fns's calling and oxy's mechanics. Most t1 duelists aren't on oxy's level mechanically. Put both together and you have the best overall player in the world.

zellsis has good mechanics

I agree he's no slouch, but he obviously doesn't have Aleksandar mechanics, even if he is a much better player.

a good igl won't lose a 12-5 lead

Did you actually watch the game and see how they got to 12? or just remember that they lost and parrot that non-stop? or consider that they had like 1 week practice?

And getting 12 rounds is better than some of what was going on before : https://www.vlr.gg/314637/nrg-esports-vs-leviat-n-champions-tour-2024-americas-stage-1-w3

Nah

NRG with FNS (and S0m) were night and day better than the original superteam roster, even with like 1 week of practice.

I don't think anybody seriously questions his ability to call

Improves the most?

SEN: Zellsis gets Aleksandar mechanics

NRG : FNS gets Screwface mechanics

G2 : Trent gets Geeza mechanics

Bonus Question : How would the 2024 season have unfolded?

And yes I know Screwface's mechanics aren't particularly exceptional, if FNS was tapping heads like oxy he'd be the best player of the world by far

The real answer is that stats matter more. Stats are records of past events that happened. They tell us something measurable about the event that occurred, allowing us to place them in a comparative matter.

The most controversial (for good reason) approach you see here alot is just to compare ratings. That rating stat is actually a pretty good stat, but is obviously imperfect as a true proxy for a player's performance, but we don't really have much better.

When people say 'Stats aren't everything', they are technically correct, but they should explain why the stat is improper in some respect to make a point, otherwise they haven't said anything meaningful.

-------------------------------------------------

As an example, I was arguing with someone about how boaster is not the most clutch player in the world (let alone on Fnatic) when he/she brought up the famous stat that he had the highest clutch percentage. Instead of just simply saying 'Stats aren't everything', I pointed out why that stat shouldn't be taken super seriously, which was because he was often in positions where he was clutching vs players who were low hp because they got dinked by his teammates.

Then he told me to go watch his clutches vs BLG, so I did exactly that, and what a shocker, they were against low hp players.
https://youtu.be/1I_wiUETIaM?si=QGXXhPNDMDMir2Q9

https://youtu.be/rsmQPUvq79s?si=x_w3BAIpTMlzy67R

Here's one on Meteor and Karon

more kayo

ain't no way woot was the #1 initiator of 2024 lmfao

not even #1 on his own team

it does make sense because the 'trans' players actually come from a much larger pool, which like I said in #54, players in that pool also generally take the game more serious as well, making the pool of 'serious players' for that category much larger.

I probably can't use more specific language because it'd get me in trouble, but connect the dots.

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I'll exaggerate it in this example to get the point across:

Consider how many good chinese players there are compared to good rhode islanders. Now imagine a rhode island league meant to develop rhode islanders, but it allows chinese players to play in it. A not particularly elite chinese player could easily dominate the rhode islanders in the league, just because the talent pool in china is much more vast and it would be alot easier to find a player who has that level of talent. But the dominance isn't because of some innate racial advantage of being from china, and it's feasible that a talent could emerge from rhode island that would be better. It's unlikely due to the numbers game, but not impossible.

I actually did lose a game because in a 2v2 someone called 'they're in hookah', when one was in garden

So imma be using she for that reason and for the obvious reason that it's clearly a girl

'bbbut the devs said its not a girl and non-binary!!!'

Looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, voiced by a female, im using she.

and yeah guess what I also call Kayo a he instead of 'it' despite him being a robot, for the same reasons.

Sue me

well thats average plat behavior

But when you get to immortal 2+ (when people generally are semi-serious players) you don't really get that behavior, its very rare.

And I guarantee there's thousands of premier teams (at all levels) that are mixed where its never been an issue, far outweighing a few bad apples. So I don't think you can conclude from a few bad experiences here and there that there's some great barrier to women competing in premier (and definitely not at the high level divisions).

This

And even of the women that play, i'd say that most of them aren't taking the game as seriously as men generally do. All the girls I personally know that play don't grind comp and prefer to play swiftplay and unrated for the most part. Meanwhile i've been in customs at 3 AM making lineups with the boys.

So yeah when you have a very small talent pool of players that are fully dedicated to competing the chance that you get a t1 talent (there's like what, 40 slots in t1 rn?) is super low.

No

The reason none have made it is because none were good enough for it - which doesn't have to do with their biological makeup, but their individual skill.

Some of the best women are almost certainly good enough for t2, but have chosen not to make that leap for various reasons. Some have noted the financial stability of staying in GC as a probable reason.

+1

There's nothing biological that affects valorant performance. Being a man or woman doesnt make you any better or worse.

There's nothing to show that women are marginalized from t1 or t2. Both circuits are open. A premier team recently won pacific ascension. There's nothing stopping a woman from joining premier. The claim that people can't find teammates because of gender is outlandish:

"Yeah you're a great initiator player with great aim and you play the agents and role we're looking for and would be a great fit, but since you're a girl we're gonna pass" - Do you see how comically ridiculous that is?

And if anything GC itself holds people back because the financial incentives of staying in the t4 gc league keeps people stuck in it instead of developing further.

Finally common sense on vlr

I may have a friend who knows a dev at riot

But the more likely explanation is that I have a time machine

Primmie can't be considered the best player mechanically until he also proves to be an elite awper

Putting him behind KangKang, Texture, and even others like Cryo and Oxy until proven otherwise

👀👀👀

leaked it weeks ago right under everyone's noses

https://www.vlr.gg/394791/new-agent-can-pick-up-guns

Ngl thats one of the best aces i've ever seen, no exaggeration

No it won't, for two big reasons

1. The fundamental fallacy is assuming there is a fixed amount of work to do. There is quite literally an infinite amount of things you could do with your time. If one thing saves you time somewhere, it opens up opportunity to do something else. If you were stuck alone on an island you'd spent a majority of your time trying to find a way to get safe drinking water. If you were handed a magic cup that fully purifies all water that goes into it, you now would spend your time on other things, such as finding food. If I gave you a magic box that you can always pull food out of, now you can spend that time on building a raft, or a shelter, etc. The possibilities are infinite. The same principle applies when you scale it up to a society level. Google "Switchboard Operator". They weren't necessary anymore, so they found other things to do.

2. Even though they can do pretty cool things, we aren't even close to a real artificial intelligence. They don't 'think'. It's all probabilistic and statistical models with better marketing.
   https://probml.github.io/pml-book/book1.html
   https://probml.github.io/pml-book/book2.html

even still that shit genuinely came outta nowhere

Tenz retiring

Its basically happened already

FNC vs G2 on Haven

https://www.vlr.gg/378832/g2-esports-vs-fnatic-valorant-champions-2024-lr1/?game=180443&tab=overview

comp:

me - "yo reyna can you come here and flash so i can combo it with my eye and we can swing"

(streamer mode instalock reyna has the whole team muted from the start of the game and will die in the first 15 secs of every round)

swiftplay:

me - "yo reyna can you come here and flash so i can combo it with my eye and we can swing"

a gold 3 player named acrobaticlion21 - "yeah do you want it immediately or should i wait a little?"

Zellsis is underrated
TH won't even be a top 2 EMEA team next year
Brim is really good on Icebox
Gekko is for noobs who don't want to actually take the time to learn to be a real initiator

and my hottest take: People genuinely try way harder in swiftplay than in comp

you wouldnt put pancada because he has shown any good results since champs 2022

Kinda like.... Nats? (since 2021).

you dont know if the talent is there anymore

Actually, like Nats, we know the talent is still there. When he got out of 'jail' and was back on Loud ( back on smokes, and could speak portuguese) he played pretty well, even though that team at that point was dysfunctional (much like 2023 SEN, and Liquid). And even when he was on KJ with the language gap, we could tell the talent was still there. Everybody knows both Nats and Pancada don't lack the talent to be on top of their roles, even in the current day, the problem is not winning enough (not entirely a single players fault, but it is what it is)

if you dont think nats is a top sentinel then people like suygetsu and less should also be disqualified

Well I agree with Suygetsu not being a top senti currently (talent still there, although it faded a little)

But Less? Pretty clearly the greatest senti of all time (the talent is obviously there), so he's almost a mandatory pick for a top senti player at any given moment, plus he made an event this year and fried in it

https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1921/champions-tour-2024-masters-madrid
https://www.vlr.gg/312766/gen-g-vs-loud-champions-tour-2024-masters-madrid-swiss-stage-r1

then whats your list?

1. Meteor/Chichoo
2. Meteor/Chichoo
   3-9. Flashback/Leaf/Alfa/Johnqt/Less/Benjy/Tex

There is only 2 valid picks for top 2

And only 9 valid picks for top 9

--------------------------
You may think that Nats is individually better than some of these players, that is fine, but you cannot rate him above any of them on a top sentis list

This is for the exact same reason you would not put Kaajak over Miniboo on a top duelists list (or on it at all), even if you think he is better.

Ngl this is clown behavior. Your being completely selective with how your treating them

You apply one set of standards and then you make up reasons why we can't do they same the other way around

Zellsis played really well map 2? - Noo!!! it doesnt matter cuz they lost !!!

Woot stunk up the first Lev game? - No!!! Its only 1 game look at the rest of the year !!!

Talk about the rest of the Year? - No!!! Why are you going back to madrid !!! (literally next sentence talking about shanghai)

sure zellsis dropped 20 on map 2 but they still lost that map so I dont really care. on abyss? where its 1-1 and the stakes are high, winning goes to lower finals, zellsis drops an ABYSMAL 4-18, 1-10 on attack, losing them the map

So you're just cherrypicking to fit your preconception that Woot is far and away better or Zellsis is a complete bum or a mix of both. If you look overall, they did similar, even with the game being pretty decisively one-sided. If you take a step back and look at the overall tournament, they did similar.

If we're gonna cherrypick, why don't we look at both of their Map 5's vs GENG for the trophy?

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Zellsis is a good flex player, people act like he's Ange1 -----> He is underrated

bruh its a <15 ACS and <15 ADR difference. Like it or not their stats are extremely similar. You can think Woot is better, which is fine, I do too. But people need to stop underrating Zellsis

Go take a look at the overall stats for Zellsis vs Woot in the game he 'completely threw'. Even though it was a pretty straightforward loss for SEN, maybe you'll notice something.

he definitely played better throughout the tournament

Except... that he didn't really. Like we have the stats, they are virtually identical. And they both played 350+ rounds, so that complaint is mute. And on top of that they had almost identical runs. Played very similarly in their game against each other (despite it being pretty one sided). Started in the same group and both beat and lost to the exact same teams throughout the tourney (-Lev). Ended with almost identical Rating.

Do I think Woot is better? Yes, but Zellsis is not some bum who's far off like some people act. He's genuinely a top flex player

100T
T1
FUT
idk china

Yeah stats aren't everything but you calling him 'way better' is a prime example of zellsis being underrated. The zellsis isn't no slouch and the gap isn't that big. Put the stats aside for a second and what do they both have going for them as a flex?

X

• Better Aim
• Better overall initiator

Y

• Better Breach
• More Flexible

Once you account for the stats being essentially equal, is choosing between X and Y some no-brainer?

Dare I even bring up Zellsis's finals stats against Gen.G compared to Woot (in his prime) (on duelist) against GenG?