8

is VCT cooked

Comments:
Threaded Linear
#1
Aayan

Without a tier 2 scene any tier 1 is destined to die. They've tried to fix the problems but it still seems like year on year more teams are leaving. Maybe I'm just being reactionary idk

#2
Demon1_The_GOAT
0
Frags
+

Premiere isn't going to do shit though, and we all know it.

#4
Aayan
12
Frags
+

tbh I think the Premier system is decent, tier 3 and tier 1 are solid but tier 2 has some serious issues which could bring down tier 1 with it

#3
nobody___100
-1
Frags
+

nah its facts
especially with tenz the most clouted player retiring and sacy the only guy who won champs and masters
vct is going to die unless the tier 2 gets improved

#6
Aayan
4
Frags
+

The thing is, is there a way for it to be improved?, like sure maybe you can fix one or two specific problems, but what I mean is, can you fix the tier 2 system as a concept?. The pessimistic side in me just says that an open system like tier 2 is just a flat out unsustainable business model

#9
Nef0r0
1
Frags
+

it is unsustainable cause there is no clear goal you aspire to reach. tier 2 teams in CS look forward to qualifiyng to the major, they sweat their fucking balls off anti stratting the best teams in the world just to get there for sticker money. What is ascension without its label? A slot in a higher league for a year? That's like Luton in Premier League, you go in, everyone gives you a pat on the back, then they kick your ass, steal your best players and kick you out

#7
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

what happens after that, I am just curious. does valorant as a game die as well?

#5
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

I feel like without MASSIVE clout investment it was obvious franchising would die. The only realistic chance was selling TV rights and then splitting the revenue, like the big franchiisng leagues do. That's why I, a cs fan, prefer open circuit. It creates a hierarchy where the strongest win, not the richest

#8
Aayan
0
Frags
+

I think the way they've handled tier 1 is actually pretty good, maybe as good as it gets (for franchised/partnered leagues). I think the main issue right now is tier 2. It's like an intricate game of Jenga, if the middle doesn't hold up the top will eventually fall

#10
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

because tier 2 is the most important scene when it comes to game's life cycle. There is no clear path to becoming a pro, more or less it lacks a stepping stone in tier 2.
Right now it's Premier -> RELY ON YOUR OWN REGION TO BE GOOD AND GET AN ASCENSION SLOT -> get 1 slot while beating the other 8 teams -> qualify to franchising where you are by far the weakest. imo it lacks a stepping stone

#13
Aayan
0
Frags
+

Yeah I agree. You get 2nd/3rd/4th place in ascension? your year is over. Then wait 4-6 months (tbf they've improved on this recently) to play again. imo the only real way to fix it is to make tier 2 semi-franchised. Fix the orgs in place and give them some more LANs with crowds, sure it'll cost more but the idea is that orgs will be able to rake in more due to sponsors.

They need to make it so an org can invest in tier 2, and have that org still be profitable (in val) even if they don't ascend. They need to build a league for the many, not just the for the one who will ascend.

#11
Anguibok
2
Frags
+

Real question : Are we really need huge structure to have a good T2 ? Isn't ok to have semi-pro or amateurs structure in T2 ?

#12
Nef0r0
-1
Frags
+

not really. so you have people stay in it for years while waiting for 1 slot? So you just ignore studies and job cuz you need to dedicate more time to get better? NBA/NFL/NHL/MLB have universities to get new talent from (place of studies), Football has lower leagues (where salaries are paid)

#14
Anguibok
0
Frags
+

How many money Riot give per structure in T2 ? Maybe it's the solution, paying everyone 1k5€ for 5 or 6 people may sound doable for Riot ?

#15
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

So you expect a company to spend money on a league they don't give two fucks about?

#17
cristiadu
0
Frags
+

well if they want the league they do give fucks about to work, maybe?

#20
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

They would support South America, they don't. They would give tier 2 a platform inside the game, they don't. They would boot the teams which just save their money the fuck out of the league on first try, they don't

#21
Anguibok
0
Frags
+

I think they care about T2

#22
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

by giving it 1 slot for a year

#23
Anguibok
0
Frags
+

We will expand to 16 team somewhat and give 4 spot to asc (We just need the war stop)

#25
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

if you want the cis playerbase to come, it will not, it's stuck in cs/dota and now deadlock.

#26
Anguibok
0
Frags
+

No, I think Riot need to wait end of war to expand every league and give 2 partenered and 2 ascende team to every region, so every T2 region got their T1 team :
APAC : Oceania / Viet Nam
EMEA : Russia / MENA
AMER : LAN / Probably NA 6th

#27
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

you are not finding 2 more orgs from eastern europe bro :D

#16
BoF7ooM
0
Frags
+

Imagine if an org like PCFIC or fucking galorys make into franchise. That shit would not be good for the league.

#18
cristiadu
1
Frags
+

why? I prefer that than "a big org" like TSM fielding the team we all saw yesterday.

#35
BoF7ooM
0
Frags
+

That is also another issue. Also, look at your own flair LOUD, couldn't even keep the champs winning roster due to funding issues. All the insane players left one after another. I wouldn't expect PCFIC or Galories to up the standards even if they win a regional tourney. TSM fielding a garbage team right now wouldnt be much of an issue, as you can expect they can easily upgrade to a much better roster next year. Same for APEKS/ACEND/M80. The problem with an org like calories or PCFIC ascending is if the team ends up being good, they won't be able to keep it for a long time, and if they are shit, they likely won't be able to find better replacement players. The live examples of having a fraud org in franchising is in front of you. Evil Geniuses and LOUD. Think of the players, where is the security? If they can't even keep their team intact even after winning the most prestigious event of the year.

#36
cristiadu
0
Frags
+

wild that you put LOUD with EG as if they did similar things lmao.

Also EG is a big org, so it kinda defeats your point right there.

#19
Aayan
0
Frags
+

imo there has to be an intermediate step where a decent org can pick the team up, this is what I would imagine the ideal path of a player to be:

play in t3 (premier), win premier ---> get picked up by a decent/large org ---> play in tier 2 for 2-3 years, hoping to ascend by the end ---> ascend or retire to give way for new talent (it sucks to have to do that but you have to keep a cycle to allow fresh players to join)

In this system the tier 2 orgs would be partnered, and each season there's a sort of draft for the orgs to pick up premier teams. They could still pick players up the ordinary way by trialling or scouting and such, but this way guarantees that players have a chance in tier 2. I would also give 1 maybe even 2 more LAN tournaments to tier 2 to make it more sustainable. They need something to play for outside of ascension.

This system almost entirely eliminates small orgs, but given how much of a money burner esports is currently I don't think it's wise to have them if you want a long term sustainable t2 ecosystem

#24
Saiki_taha
0
Frags
+

"Without a tier 2 scene any tier 1 is destined to die"
Can you give some evidence/source/data for this? Also, Riot has a Tier 2 System but just not profitable.

#32
ShuGo
0
Frags
+

Make Maaters 1 20 Teams

16 Teams from Tier 1, 4 Teams from Tier 2; each Regions send out 4/1 Teams

If a Tier 2 Team wins, they skip the process of Ascension and join Franchising for a set # of years

More incentive for Orgs to invest in the scene

#33
Nef0r0
0
Frags
+

would make sense, but then teams in tier 1 will bitch about it, won't they?

#34
peetherium
0
Frags
+

eh it's only been the 2nd season of franchise & the 4th year of valorant overall. I'd say right now what we're seeing are growing pains from the franchise system being created, and hopefully as time goes on RIOT will implement policies that improve the profitability for orgs

  • Preview
  • Edit
› check that that your post follows the forum rules and guidelines or get formatting help
Sign up or log in to post a comment