I think Valorant wont ever get remotely close to CS if they keep doing franchising. In 2025, Valve is making all TOs go completely open circuit, even though most tournaments already have some open qualifiers for spots. Even A tier tournaments are abundant for tier 2. Is Valorant esports set up for failure?
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CS vs Val Esports
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Nope asia will be never grow if they not promoting anything (for CS)
I can give u example outside pro
U can see vtuber tournament things they only play overwatch, val, apex and lol.
Overwatch already make a move with make a song with KPop and collabing with cowboy bebop.
I don't want explain about val and lol because u can search itself as long u watch other language streamer and most popular streamer (it's most easy to search rather overwatch).
Don't get me wrong why I mentioning vtuber, all i say just about grass root things, if they never fix the grass root they will never be fixed.
Also delete that permanent partner team WTF was that
Obo, I see you havent been in touch with CS in years. Jba, Swisher, Reck are just a few whose making a name for themselves. Like I said before, since Valorant took all the tier2 NA pros, it takes time to recover that. People been saying NA is dead for years, well it never died even though its been on its very lows during Covid and starting to recover with new orgs coming in or returning.
any decent player will play on faceit, ive actually seen more cheaters in valorant than on faceit actually. soon there will be a new anti cheat for mm and this bullshit will be in the past.
The only content creation videos people make of it now is just crate gambling and hack installation tutorials.
you dont watch cs content.
the best thing about cs esports is that every single tournament has a way to get in through open qualifiers, you get tier 2 teams in major finals which makes the game so much more competitive. think about how many t2 teams are better than some t1 teams in val and imagine if those teams had a chance to play each other... common riot L
You literally said “ league is the biggest esport and riot runs everything.... If valve ran everything related to CS it would be way worse than riot to league or valorant” and I said Valve allows CS to be runned by 3rd party TOs and are not greedy to degrade Valorant like Riot did to cut costs. Dont be an idiot.
Im not so sure, I think in the beginning they really wanted to beat CS and showcase everything in high value until they realize managing Valorant was too expensive to maintain both League and Valorant at the same time. They then start cutting the costs by having less tournaments and creating franchising, meaning they want to cutback in everything. Of course, the solution would be to bring in external TOs, but Riot is too greedy for that
I am not talking about viewership, just the hype the tournaments bring (entertainment value)
You can say it is my opinion but I feel like CS is by far the most entertaining game to watch
You might have seen those videos of the CS crowds going crazy, it almost feels like a football match
The only other game I have watched that comes close is surprisingly Rocket League
you can't make an objective argument for one game being more entertaining than another, it always depends on the individual and hence this discussion would be pointless
I am using my criteria to define what game is better to watch and so I prefer CS and RL (I don't even play RL but it is cool to watch)
your argument is just baseless since viewership does not immediately correlate to greater entertainment value
I used to watch cs esports from 2016 to around 2020 but i dont know i just find it so boring since then, i find the game (pro scene) to be too repetitive, same plays, same defaults, the same old players moving around rosters..
I find val way, way more entertaining for obvious reasons such as too much different stuff can happen, kills feel satisfying and underdog teams can upset. And thats me, a player with over 7k hours on cs saying this and i have around 300-400 hours in val.
Last major got 1.5M as a record, sen vs loud a regional match got to 830k almost beating that.. I dont know, val scene seems to be doing ok. Not to mention theres also the asian scene (particularly chinese scene) who get so, SO many viewers it wouldnt be crazy to say chinese viewership beats any cs s tier event alone.
Cs nowadays its like a EU regional event, its only europeans playing against each other and no other region comes even close to them, nothing wrong i just think its way too boring and one of the reasons i could see cs esports dying, because countries such as Brazil, Eua or LATAM in general do not have >>good<< team representing them, i know they still got teams like furia, col or nrg but you get what i mean, teams that will win S-tier events.
I dont think CS plays are same at all, otherwise people would have found counters and be the best already, To me, CS and Valorant macros are pretty much the same, most pros confirmed that. Only the micros makes it different such as Jett dash, KJ turret, etc. CS is also imo more unpredictable and more punishing since you can flank a lot more often (Valorant way less with eg. cypher trips) and you cant bail yourself out (Jett dashes, Sage revives). I prefer CS battles because when opponents kill me, I feel they are better than me, but in Valorant, I feel more times its a lucky play and you cant save yourself from bad teammates by having your own smokes, flashes, mollies like in CS.
For Chinese viewership, I frequently check Douyu and Huya, the Chinese equivalent of Twitch. Surprisingly, both CS and Valorant viewership is about the same. Dank1ng is a very popular CS streamer getting around 3-4 million heat (theres no viewer stats). I checked in both the Asia RMRs and Chinese Kickoff, and the RMR had a million higher heat. So, even though Valorant is getting popular, they have different communities, so the numbers are still high for people who enjoy CS.
With the 800k viewership, that is pretty impressive. However, since it was Loud vs SEN, it was pretty much an ORG clout match, so numbers may be a bit inflated for other matches.
CS esports will probably never die. People been saying that since 1999, but guess what, it still hasnt died. EU may be the dominant region right now, but other regions are coming back slowly again, NA orgs are coming back and talent is growing to recover the original tier2 NA pros that went to Valorant. KRU just entered CS with their Argentinian roster. Asia scene is growing too, the Mongolz a Mongolian team can challenge tier1 teams and a Chinese team Lynn Vision made the major. The Chinese scene have many you g talent but just needs to find a good leadership and their scene will be thriving. So for me, I enjoy watching CS more because of the underdog story for NA to beat EU teams, I find that much more interesting. Especially when teams have a big era like 2019 Liquid before, it keeps me in tune to see which tram will spark a light again and change the scene again.
its not franchising thats the problem, its not having enough 3rd party tournaments, literally an off season thats like half a year is fking weird with a handful of off season tournaments that are only for invited teams. i envy cs2 and dota2 where teams just play open qualifiers for different tournaments with just a week in between. imagine supporting a franchised team and them losing a couple of matches and then waiting months to see them play again.
Franchising has no place in Valorant, doesnt make sense and ruins the competitive integrity of the esport. I would say let Riot be the main organizer for Champions, and let the 3rd party TOs handle Masters and other tournaments. Literally the perfect format and win win, but Riot is too greedy to let such a good thing happen
Valorant year 1 franchising wasn't as big of a mess as everyone thought it was going to be. This year isn't going to be good with the huge off season again but hopefully, from year 3 onwards, the franchising thing will start to work and make sense. If Val esports was set up for failure, that would be reflected in viewership but instead the viewership is steadily increasing (especially APAC/China).
On the other hand, Valve fucked up with CS2 and that comes from someone who has been playing CS since 2014 (faceit lvl 10, peak was about 2350 elo). The game launched bad, had bad reception, pros complained and now (for me and other people here have also mentioned this) CS doesn't feel as exciting. The big pros are all losing out on making majors, its only really EU that challenges at the majors, there's no crazy storylines. The only games don't feel hype anymore and now I only watch Team Spirit games because they have the only real talent that is playing wildly different which is fun to watch. But that is probably just me finally losing my spark for CS.
I don't want to see either game die out and it doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon, but I also feel like CS has peaked already and won't reach those numbers again while Valorant still hasn't peaked and could continue on to be bigger than what it is today in terms of esports.
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