Classic

Yea many of them were tier2 or below

Probably since like 75% of valorant pros are like former cs pros/players

https://youtu.be/hhjPkgvCbBI

I see more personality in these CS streams

you're debaiting about the tactics and abilities/utils in the game and I explain the util in the game you have no clue about, but it seems you're just a clown with negative comprehension skills

Also I would watch this video. It shows how simple a Mirage window smoke in CS can be so impactful. Honestly one of my favorite videos.

https://youtu.be/NiZ61Nph58w?si=ftyYDiev_O9ExVAx

That explains everything, expected tbh. In short, CS and Valorant tactics are different, more types of util doesn't equal harder

You might wanna reread buddy

If you can start off which part of his argument is wrong instead of saying “hes wrong” maybe we can discuss them. Also just because you played some matches against some 40yr old dads from CS1.6 silvers enjoying the game on the weekends, isnt close to enough to give you a high level aspect of the game, I have 4000hrs in CS and 1.7hrs in Valorant while the guy on the video has way more and plays at a high level.

Again like I said previously, the way CS and Valorant tactically plays out is different. You would know that if you played both games at a high level or at least understand it watching pro games. I suggest you watch some breakdown games of rounds from pro players, you would be surprised how much tactics goes into one util. I recommend Stewie2k, hes pretty good at explaining super small details that can change rounds.

Also, it is not about throwing random ability combinations together like youre making soup, I find that number pretty pointless as AGAIN both games utility plays out differently. CS you have to be smart of how/when it is to throw flashes/smokes/mollies. Not saying Valorant isnt the same, but in CS this is way more important since there is a limited supply of them. Also, the utility may be simple, but it can be super complex with layers with tactics over two decades. If it was so simple, you would think people would come up ways to counter them by now. I like the quote “simplicity is complex.”

With Valorant, most agents has similar utility like in CS with exceptions like tp, info finding, antilurk, etc. Some agents even have their abilities stripped like Reyna without mollies and smokes and even her flash is mid. So again, I think the utility almost evens out with Valorant having bit more impact due to how dogshit limited the movement/gunplay is, so the abilities have to compensate for it.

Also, it doesnt matter which game you or I like more for this discussion. I am simply putting both aspects of the game on the table for you. You can decide for yourself which game you like better.

I mean he played both games while you didnt, so again how is his judgement is biased but yours isnt?

Also played BOTH games, I find CS more unpredictable because in Valorant you understand all the agents in a match and what they can do, so you can expect things they can or cant do. Also with key roles like sentinels and initiators, it also takes some unpredictability out such as eliminating many lurk plays in the game and finding information easier on site so pretty much positions are known. Also you are overplaying the ability aspect, at the end if the day it comes to who can shoot someone in the head faster in this fps game like CS

Hopefully this helps

I am decently high level in both games and dont really have the attention span to explain everything, so heres a video that I agree for the most part about both games

https://youtu.be/fGj4Ng8opdg?si=h2BrCdSyXNxeqXUN

Watch this about the ranking system:

https://youtu.be/RTezI44RSWY?si=z2Qteq4ADIYr6OXN&t=371

You weren’t wrong when you said you knew nothing about cs

This is my favorite Cologne:

https://youtu.be/HSI1wRMK2So

Right so like I said, Riot is pretty much the problem

Uh ugly like how wym

Lol I dont think Shroud ever came close winning a major, in fact he flopped super hard on them with ratings even below 0.90

lmaoo true, not even the team ranking is done correctly yet

https://www.hltv.org/news/40608/top-20-players-of-2024-introduction

Indie website compared to HLTV, though the fault could lie with Riot not associating with VLR, while HLTV is part of all TOs in CS including Valve.

CS is a simple 5v5 game, but as they say “ The simplest things are often the most complex.” With just guns and utility (flash, molly, smoke, HE nade, decoy), unlike other games it is often compared to normal sports as you have to come up unique ways to beat your opponent, so the game is heavily layered, at least at the high level.

General roles are: (not always super strictly played)
T side: (Terrorists - Attackers)
IGL - in game leader calling strats and can play a supportive role as well such as throwing supporting util or other things to support the team
Entry fragger - first to push either to find info or go kill. Often dying a lot due to being traded, but their roles can be super impactful
Awper - self explanatory, every team has different styles of awpers, aggressive or passive, sometimes they are in the backlines to throw support util as well and look for trades or in the front to find the picks
Lurker - Also self explanatory, can be super impactful due to causing disruption
Trader/Star rifler - Often the one to get the most shine due to having comfortable roles of getting the trades and being able to play their own game. Most insane players you have heard about often have this role.

CT side: (Counter Terrorists - Defenders)
Anchors: Holding down their specific sites and can play a supportive role
Rotator/Star Rifler: Pretty much the same as the the T side as they get to move around the map looking for kills so playing their own game
Awpers: Also similar to T side, except it is argued CT awper has more impact because it is way easier to get picked off by pushing
IGL: same as T
Support: Self explanatory again by playing a supporting role to set up the team with throwing util or whatever

Like I said roles aren’t strict like lurkers dont always lurk and even some players might switch up their roles in rounds due to their specific strat or whatever such as a fast rush or being down players. Some teams might not even play these roles traditionally due to their play style.

Donk wouldve turned the team into title contenders and win mvps 🗿

Idk ask ohnepixel

Mouz the most auraless team ever

0/8

Like above, use csstash to see all skins, there are some nice skins that are not even a dollar sometimes

My S- tier is a bit outdated now since Gamers8 turned to EWC which can be S tier but imo still S- tier for me since it doesnt feel as hype as the other events.

Blast Groups will not exist next year 2025 due to the new open circuit system and I think all new Blast events (Bounty, Open, Rivals) will be at least S tier, Open may even be S+ tier but we will see.

All these TOs entering/reentering CS in 2025, Starladder, PGL, Skyesports, Perfect World, etc; these events seems to be good with hugh prizepools but for now we need to see them first before we rank them. I have higher expectations for PGL due to their CS event experience.

wrote this a while ago to someone else.

Heres a website to see past tournaments easier if you’re new.
https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments

Events:
S+: Majors - sponsored by Valve and chosen TO organizes it (2 per year typically one usually in Summer and one in Winter); IEM Katowice (Feb/March) and Cologne (July/August) - events that feel like a major but not technically (organized by ESL); Blast World Final (typically in December) - slightly under the previous events imo in terms of hype and prestigiousness but still huge event (organized by Blast ofc)

Edit: World Finals will not exist next year. Due to the open circuit rule that will start in 2025, Blast redesigned their events (Bounty, Open, Rivals) for two seasons. I think Open will be the next S+ event by Blast, but we will see.

S: Blast Spring Final and Fall Final - season big events, Fall final is little more hype usually since it is in Copenhagen Royal Arena with a bigger CS audience; IEM events - big events but not as huge as Cologne or Katowice, around 3-4 events spread out per year, location depends but some in the past were in Sydney, Rio, Beijing, Dallas (very common per year), etc.

Edit: Again, these Blast Finals event will not exist next year. Due to the open circuit rule that will start in 2025, Blast redesigned their events (Bounty, Open, Rivals). I think Bounty and Rivals will both be S tier. (If you’re interested how these events work, its on Blast’s youtube channel)

S-: ESL Pro League (variable time every year)- this is borderline to S tier as it has a big prizepool, but this is a chill event, however games are still very hype typically; Blast Spring and Fall Groups - big events to get qualified to Blast Spring Finals and Fall Finals. If you bomb out, you get another chance to qualify through Blast Spring and Final Showdown which is basically LCQ; Gamers8 - new organizer event that was added recently with a huge prizepool but the event itself is smaller than the rest (unsure if this event will continue next year and so forth).

Edit: Blast Groups/Showdown will not exist next year. Gamers8 is now EWC and can be argued to be S tier, but for me it is still S- tier due to be lower in hype personally.

Rest are A or below tier you can find on the link. If you think this is a lot, there used to be more events back then 2015-2019. My thoughts is that I like how many events there is because I can always watch many good events throughout the year.

Edit:

All these TOs entering/reentering CS in 2025, Starladder, PGL, Skyesports, Perfect World, etc; these events seems to be good with hugh prizepools but for now we need to see them first before we rank them. I have higher expectations for PGL due to their CS event experience, so they may be S tier. The rest are probably S- tier or below. It is insane though that most of these are at least a million in prizepools.

You have to like hold a slight off angle if u are going to be cleared, with cs fast movement peeks are insane

https://youtu.be/ESJQn5Lb24U?si=LY0TNEaI2OWMhYDA

When getting ferrari peeked like that, the feeling is so demoralizing.

Imo theyre a lot more hype and epic. Like I get actual chills watching them and a lot of things dont make me feel that way.

Just this 2024 IEM Cologne final opening ceremony is so CINEMA. I got chills from the Hans Zimmer style organs music with great visuals.

https://www.youtube.com/live/WYinJordkO8?si=GbjAO52C0aT5Mwic&t=10700

Can you do one for CS majors? Just majors alone there are like 21 events lmao.

Furia doing Furia things, I think Pain is the better team lmao.

If there is a NA TO like Eleague back then, oh then we would be so back. Same for Asia as well, I think Perfect World would be great.

I would say top 15-20. But the difference is that tier 2 can play with tier 1. That can be top 30, top 50, hell even sometimes top 100 team somehow manage to sneak in a tier 1 tournament time to time.Valorant only has a couple tournaments per year, CS has like 10-15 just for tier 1, for tier 2 its even more. Plus, the major is one of many tournaments.

u still need a NA core in order to be a NA team, which means three players. Also, compared to CS, Overwatch esports is a joke

Even tier2 players in CS are rich asf. I seen Styko's video (former player in Apeks a tier 2 team) where he was getting like 300k just from stickers alone. Tier 1 players are getting like at least 900k to 5 million dollars. S1mple's buyout even though he hasn't played in over a year is still around 3-4 million. Insane!

https://youtu.be/G0uydiBuLVk?si=KprMFRKkmpklHtLZ

I dont think that matters at all as long NA talent is being invested into. When the teams and region matures, it will naturally gain more NA players in a team

wym

Valorant salaries looks poor compared to CS and League. You are overestimating a content org like SEN who are dependent on Valorant bundles and merch sales for income. LOL

You should take a look at League teams and their sponsors. CS teams also pay their players in the millions, League even higher.

Do you think teams and talents are rising again? This is a great chance to put NA and SA teams back on the international scene seriously again since there are no clear top teams with mixed results from every team being super competitive.

https://www.hltv.org/events/7441/esl-pro-league-season-20
https://x.com/SyykoNT/status/1833626250130161720

-Liquid looks very solid, deep playoffs team and title contenders with more experience.
-M80 bringing up tier2 NA CS talents like Lake and Reck, playing great CS beating EU teams and into playoffs. Truly the goated NA org investing in NA talent unlike EG which was a disasterclass.
-CoL looks shaking and inconsistent at the moment, but they are always still in the tier1 scene without heavy investment which matters at the end of the day. Elige is still a world-class player and probably will get at least top 10 player of the year.
-Wildcard even though they are out of the tournament, they played decent CS and showed they can hang with their EU counterparts.

For SA/BR teams, I don't really follow them closely but know they are doing great recently as well. Teams like Furia, Pain, MIBR, Imperial, 9Z are showing great results. Maybe someone who is from there or is following it closer can dive deeper.

Even though we have long ways to go, its hard not to get excited from the upward trend. All it takes is a breakthrough player or team to really put a region back on the map again like the Mongolz for Asia.

n1cf try not having brainrot and shit threads (challenge impossible)

Plus there are so many 3rd party TOs for CS as Valve only handles the Major system. It is not very centralized, so people can tune in to so many events

I think it would take a financial hit, but for viewership itself i really dont think tier1 would be affected that much

Gambling degens mostly only really applies to tier 2/3 tournaments. Most people dont care about those tournaments. So I think you are really exaggerating and blowing it out of proportion.

Also what does APAC think? Forgot to add

Studio event warriors

Are these good venues?

https://www.hltv.org/news/39801/shanghai-major-to-have-live-audience-at-all-three-stages-venues-announced

They will have crowds during group stages as well for chinese/asian teams which is a huge W.

Fake serb KEKW

Thats the average viewer demographic for non tier 1 tournaments