Why is C9 even considered a superteam?

#1

Spec

They have got to be the most overrated team of the off season considering even when you compare them to NRG, they are equal at best.

Yay > Ardiis (slightly)

Vanity << FNS (FNS made multiple lans and is definitely a top 2 igl while vanity didn't qualify for a single event this year)

Xeppaa =< Crashies (Xeppaa has had a massive drop off in form since 2021, while Crashies has been consistently good)

Leaf =? Victor (Similar stats and hard to get a good read cause leaf has had a massive drop off in form , but that could be attributed to some structural problems)
I would give a slight edge to victor cause he is playing against tougher opponents
Zellisis >? Som ( hard to even compare these two cause they are going to be playing different roles)

Mce =? Chet (hard to tell cause we have no idea)

Despite all of this, people are considering C9 to be hands down the best team when there is plenty of room for discussion. (like sen, nrg, 100t, lev, etc. are all similar or greater in strength).

#2

DDenied

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imo NRG most overated team rn

#8

Spec

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That's actually straight cap. NRG literally has the most optic players plus ardiis. How the FUCK are they overated. (I don't think they are in contention to win though)

#11

FoechiGG

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What optic players do they have tho? FNS and victor got carried by yay now Ardiis would have to carry them

#24

SENneedstacpausetowin

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Silver brain kekw

#25

FoechiGG

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Okey FNS is a great IGL

#58

Moiraine

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I'm sorry but NRG took the worst parts of Optic. Yay and marved were the best parts of it now they are gone.
Sure they have ardiis now, a top tier player but the rest of the team is so overrated.

#3

GreyDaze

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They are not a superteam but one of the best in americas for sure

#4

Jdang_SG

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sentinels wtih sacy and pancada look scary rn so only time can tell

#5

WinterZ

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they see the big names like yay and Zellsis and immediately call superteam.

The roles on this roster make no sense. Idk why mfs are hyping them so much

#43

danii1

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What? How do the roles not make sense?

#45

Blazieboy

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If they are bringing Zellsis to play KJ and Cypher then the roles would make sense. Also who's going to play Sova on this team?
Vanity will play the main controller role for sure but on maps like Bind and Pearl who's going to play Viper? Zellsis?
Xeppaa may play the main initiator role as he plays a lot of Fade and I imagine he could be their main initiator player.

On the whole, all the players have to adopt new roles for the team excepting Yay and Vanity.

#55

WinterZ

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you have Zellsis who mostly plays Neon; you have yay who mostly plays chamber, and then you have leaf who mostly plays both.
There is no proper initiator player on that team. You have Xeppaa who plays Fade well and that's about it.

#63

gonfreacks

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Dude, Zellsis played Kay/O almost 10x more than he played neon. Even he played KJ and sage much more than he plays neon. Zellsis is mainly a flex player not a duelist. He can switch the role with Xeppa.
Leaf also can play Skye and viper in some occasion.
Vanity probably will stay on smoker and yay in full time chamber.
So technically 3/5 players can really change the role depend on the map/situation.
The thing that i agree with you, they dont have a proper sova player, but i believe any other C9 roaster, except yay can learn this agent.

#6

Perma

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anything with the goat Yay = superteam

#46

LathesRule

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Deadass yeah

#7

YvngKurry

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Yay is undoubtedly better than ardiis at the moment there is no "slightly"

Vanity has igled two separate teams to lans (one of the only igls to do it?) and has proven he can keep up in the fragging department.

Xepaa has shown great peaks with some dropoff in the second challengers because of the sudden roster changes. Look at challengers 1 he was insane.

Leaf same thing as xeppa. Didn't have a good grasp of meta duelists and performance dropoff due to roster changes.

Zellsis is unbelievably flexible and can frag on any one of those agents from kj to neon.

#9

Noodle

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koldamenta IGLed G2 and GLD to LAN

#10

YvngKurry

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true didnt think of that

#51

unknown_trash

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Thats why they said ONE of the only igls to do it

#52

MerkFreeks

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He said one of not the only

#12

Spec

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The fuck you mean "there is no slightly". Ardiis is literally like 20 acs lower than yay despite playing cypher and kayo. They are both incredible at their roles. Yay is obviously better, but to pretend that there is an unsurmountable gap is ridiculous. (Ardiis is much more flexible and probably a better rifler and yay is a far better oper, but to each their own)

#14

nutab1e

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The fuck you mean

to each their own

aight bro yay destroys ardiis

#26

Spec

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character development. sorry papi

#15

YvngKurry

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If you're looking at that, you might as well look at the fact that yay played 200+ more rounds than ardiis. Plus stats aren't everything if you watch their gameplay and vods you can tell that yay is the better player in most situations.

#20

Spec

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You know that's actually quite an interesting point you brought up because I know what you're talking about. Yay is like super good at these tiny little micro situations, but I attributed it to FNS's calling much more than Yay's individual skill which is why FNS >>> than all na igls. Maybe there is something more to it, but from what I remember ardiis and yay seem fairly equal. (also, ardiis probably has to take more risks because fpx is always a man down in random positions for no reason (which is cope but I'm just saying) ).

Also, I know the stats aren't everything. I'm just stating them cause that's all people were using to gas up yay during the champs run.

#28

YvngKurry

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Yea I guess we can attribute a lot to fns and chet for yay's positioning for success but I firmly believe that yay would not have gone to c9 if he didn't believe that vanity and mce would be able to work in the same system to replicate that success.
I fns saying that anyone on optic could igl in different situations so that just shows the sheet amount of game knowledge each of the optic members have so lets not discredit yay.
LMFAO true you're not even coping Ange1 be playing for the other team sometimes but idk if we can attribute that to lesser stats for ardiis.
Its not only his champs run it's his insane consistency throughout his whole career and it seems like he will only get better

#35

Spec

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I mean yeah everything you are saying is true. Yay is absolutely insane and I'm maybe I am slightly discrediting him.

At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that the other Americas teams can definitely strike back against this iteration of C9.

It seems like in this meta any player can look like they are top 10 when they are playing chamber, so I'm actually a little worried for yay's consistency when chamber gets gutted, but I think he is the best player in the world for a reason.

(Also, 4 v 5 theory: if you are down in numbers, you would be more inclined to take fights that you wouldn't normally take so you don't end up getting destroyed by retakes/site hits which can cause extra unnecessary deaths that wouldn't happen otherwise)

#36

babysasuke

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Yay is the best Jett and Chamber in the world

If both Jett and Chamber are not viable at any point, the meta will be in shambles and it doesnt matter anyway.

#37

Spec

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To be fair, Jett isn't really meta on that many maps any more, so I'm almost certain he would have to branch out his agent pool.

She's really only good on ascent and breeze really.

Chamber is a different story altogether, and honestly I don't think riot has the balls to nerf chamber

#41

babysasuke

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yeah but jett isnt viable because chamber is better

if they nerf chamber to oblivion, the chamber players will just go back to jett

#42

Spec

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You're kinda spitting I'm not gonna lie. I forgot that the other primary duelists were being played again because you could run op + primary duelist (reliably), but if chamber is done, then people might go back to jett for both.

Despite this, I think yay will definitely need to learn new agents on like bind and maybe the meta on icebox changes into where raze-fade is the best shell (for like denying spike plants and systematically clearing space). Only time will tell

#38

YvngKurry

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Yea im def not discrediting your point, the Americas league is suuuuuuuuuuuuper close but I still think that c9 will be top 3 but the rest 2 spots for top 3 are kind of a toss-up imo. Also we have seen the chamber meta for almost 1/2 a year and no chamber in NA has rivaled yay yet so idk if it will happen that soon.

#48

LathesRule

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I bet a decent amount is from FNS’s positioning and calling but more of it is yay’s insane gamesense. If you watch some of his streams, he talks about how he always predicts his opponents’s actions (with an absurdly high success rate based on an eye test). That’s how his crosshair placement is nearly perfect and why he rarely needs to pull off insane flicks, although he’s able to when required.

I think yay’s one of the smartest duelist/chambers in the current scene, and that’s most of why he’s incredibly consistent. These ability’s aren’t gonna disappear on C9.

#13

NotASinner69

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Maybe bcoz of Yay. On their good day C9 is a very scary team but if yay doesn't frag then we have to see. Roles needs to be adjusted though. I also believe they lack a top initiator like Derrek/Crashies/Sacy.

#53

unknown_trash

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That was why I wanted them to pick up trent or bcj over zellsis but we will have to wait and see what happens now.

#16

number1_ScreaM_fan

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cuz of yay and how isane he is. before yay envy (optic were tier 1.5) just shows how good he can make a team

#66

iMyw_

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LMAO ENVY TIER 1.5 😂😂😂😂😂😂

#68

number1_ScreaM_fan

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They were since they never managed to make lan and always bombed out at 4th

#17

Noodle

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I think all that can really be said right now is that SEN and C9 are rated toward the top with NRG, 100T, LEV, and LOUD being strong contenders. There isn’t any dominant team that is definitely going to qualify, but probably not the other four given our current knowledge of the rosters.

#18

nutab1e

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I don't think lev is gonna win anything, furia is gonna be good tho hot take

#19

YvngKurry

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whats the furia roster?

#22

nutab1e

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I think it is the same as right now, they might lose nzr I forget

#49

LathesRule

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Lev is the best South American team imo. They look insane with saadhak

#61

Jano0310

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Saadhak is staying with LOUD

#21

Gutssz

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cuz of yay
yay > Valorant

#23

babysasuke

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The only team left that could have compared to Optic is Navi

Navi is the only team that took a core and upgraded one of the positions

Only team that could be considered a superteam is Sentinels and that heavily depends on what version of TenZ we get.

#29

FoechiGG

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Babysasuke called it SEN back to America top T0nZ > all

#31

babysasuke

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TenZ is actually the only member Im worried about, other 4 are great (in recent history)

#32

FoechiGG

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It’s zekken Sacy pANcada but who iis the 5th?

#33

babysasuke

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Supposed to be dephh but im not going to disappointed if that doesnt pan out

#34

FoechiGG

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Wouldn’t be a bad pick-up I suppose

#30

nutab1e

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nah tenz is consistent it was just depending on whether their team practiced literally a single time before the tournament

#27

Flyjin

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Theyre so overrated rn but its all g

Without xeta they became worse than EG and people thinking adding yay is gonna solve all their problems and make them best the world

#56

unknown_trash

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No. Adding curry made them worse than eg

#57

Flyjin

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Curry is mediocre but he aint as bad as u make him out to be

#59

unknown_trash

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Exactly he's mediocre. As a top 3 NA team(before xeta left) mediocre isn't good enough. Just replacing curry with any decent initiator main is good enough to make c9 a top 5 team at least, and yay is a massive ipgrade from mitch in the primary awper role, so c9 will definitely be way better now.

#39

Henbi

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Say that you only read stats without saying you only read stats

#40

fardeengg

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I was watching chet live coaching benjyfishy during stream he said they try their best to hide yay from opposite team like cutting the information and set him up for kills also he said chet looks for setup that yay can use in game YAY is definitely the goat but I think fns chet and optic as whole gets some credit for what he is rn not taking anything from him .
c9 I think people just are looking at all big names and not understanding that different roles required different playstyle but time will tell if they are super team or no

#44

SigmaMale

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c9 and optic are very similar. Vanity needs to prove himself more. C9 looked like shit in LCQ and challengers with curry. Loss of chet is a big factor too

#47

Wiggs

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mCe isn't a slouch, either. He turned a roster of unknown players at the time into a Top 3 team in NA + has chemistry with Xeppaa, Leaf, and Vanity from Chaos.

#50

dudeeee

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It is super team lol
One of the best NA roster yet

#54

MerkFreeks

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Top 3 in the Americas for sure, it just feels like a superteam almost because
Yay best player itw
Zellsis top 10 flex NA
Chaos core is arguably a top 5-8 in all of their roles as well.

Honestly between them NRG and SEN, Americas have 3 rlly strong teams on paper.

#60

leftnut

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Yay hard diffs ardiis
Vanity= fns ( fns had lan success thanks to yay and you can't deny it ,if u do argue with wall)
Leaf >> victor
Crashies>=xeppaa
Anyone>>>s0m

#62

looklook

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yay
vanity is better than fns, hes not a bot
leaf,xeppa,zellsis is way better than crashies,vic,marved

#64

Woofysayswoof

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Yay is the best player in the world
Zellsis is a top 5 maybe top 3 flex player in NA and can play like 3 roles
Same thing with Xeppa but I'd say more around the 7-10 range
Vanity is a top 2 igl in NA
And leaf is a top 5 entry

This is the best roster they could have built, maybe replacing xeppa with someone like trent

#65

vnzo

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don't sleep on vanity, dude's insane IGL and controller

#67

juugobr_

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vanity, yay and zellsis is a very good trio. indeed xeppa and leaf have to step up if c9 wants to win something. these two fell of hard

#69

SAMPV6

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They are all individually insane. Plus; Yay, Zellsis, and Vanity have giga brains together. C9 are winning it all this year.