SRG serious talk

#1

Ghostjinn

ok so SRG just lost to dinglerz with 5 nonames including a motherfucker named GaryDaSnail

dinglerz did NOT scrim ONCE before MFH
they are all primarily immo3 players, close to radiant but have hit it before
SRG scrim against t1 teams, they practice probably between 5-8 hours a day

in SRG's favour

they weren't exactly playing full strength comps (why? i get it's funhaver but why aren't they making the most of the practice they get if they're legit getting fucked in tier 2)
it's not an official tournament (again, why? just seems like an ego thing to muck about in a tourney with other t2/t3 teams)

so question is, how can we ever expect SRG to be even relatively close to tier 1 teams? they lose to tier 2 teams, they lose to tier 3 teams and they lose in random open tournaments. people love to hate on those doubting SRG but where is the evidence they can compete? i think it's time to accept that in no realistic timeframe will they ever be competitive

#2

uwukitten

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who the fuck is saying SRG is close to tier 1 😭I love these gc threads of people fighting ghosts

they are objectively close to tier 2 and that's what everyone speaks about and also you can find other matches of tier 2 teams losing to tier 3 in random ass tournaments that don't matter

#4

boilin_cockroach

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with how it has been looking i really doubt they’re anywhere close to tier 2

#6

uwukitten

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they made it through open qualifiers fair and square the first time and were close to making it the second time, that is objectively "tier 2" or close to it

#9

Aminbg02

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they won OQ to make it for split1 then lost and got relegated,and now they are in t2 cus ambrosia and m80 left lets be honest

#10

uwukitten

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that's what I said? they made it normally the first time and were close to making it normally the second time, making them tier 2 or close to it

#11

Jayde

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They lost a (somewhat) close match in the relegation/promotion and normally made it the first time, idk abt u but thats close to t2 for me

#34

Ghostjinn

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i'm willing to be lenient on the "close to tier 2" but classifying them as tier 2 is completely dumb, even in parenthesis. they have played in relegation twice and been relegated both times

#42

foythvlr

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they literally played on T2. what more do you want lol

#45

MrBlooBloom

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Tbf Furia play in T1 but are barely even T2 level. That said I do think that SRG are close to the average T2 team, but they're not there yet

#46

foythvlr

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furia was hand selected to franchising. srg classified

#61

Ghostjinn

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i would like them to last more than 4 games to prove that they are "tier 2"

#44

serot

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If the NA tier 2 scene was any less dead right now SRG would not even qualify to begin with. The fact they even made it is a testament to how dead the tier 2 scene has become.

#47

foythvlr

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thats another discussion. whatever how terrible T2 looks they played it so they are T2

#53

meadows

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That’s like saying Txozin is a tier 1 player because he subbed for one lol I mean yeah, technically you’re right but we all know the truth

#62

Ghostjinn

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constantly being relegated from tier 2 doesn't actually make you tier 2 by the way

#19

Ghostjinn

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i didn't say they ARE close to tier 1. there are some delusional people saying that but they're a minority.

the point is, they're trying to campaign for and prove that women can hang in tier 1. all SRG players have said they're not satisfied until they make it to tier 1. my point is that goal is void and is completely impossible

also, no they are not fucking close to tier 2. they are 1-7 in tier 2 swiss stage and only beat a brand new TSM roster with 2 standins. you are giving them the benefit of the doubt because they are a gc team

#21

Jayde

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That goal is definietly not impossible, idk if they are gonna makw it but there will be a gc team in t1 (in the next ten years) and i would literally put my vlr acc on this. Hell. Srg couldve beaten kickoff 2g and furia at the start of this stage

#26

Ghostjinn

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"there will be a gc team in t1 (in the next ten years)"

i disagree completely. most of SRG's core, especially meL and alexis, have been at this for 5 years. and over time, they slowly but surely drift even further and further away from the rest of the competition. with rising t2 prodigies, there is no hope for them in the future if they can't beat them, let alone t3 teams. i don't remember SRG getting railed as hard now as they were 4/5 years ago

SRG beating 2G or Furia is pure delusion

#27

Jayde

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Bro all of this ur just saiyng without anything behind it, ur just baiting right?

#30

Ghostjinn

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? i'm talking by addressing scorelines from C9 White's previous challenger runs. they did far better than they are now. instead of complaining because you have no evidence behidn a single one of your claims, do your research and come back to me when you come back to the same thesis

#35

Jayde

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C9 whites best placement was a 64th place in the open qualifiers (pls correct me if im wrong) thats not better than srg is at rn which is like top 15 in challengers

#38

Ghostjinn

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first part is incorrect, i'd encourage you to look again. also NA used to be open qualifiers when C9 White played, meaning there was no tier 1 or tier 2 and ALL american teams played through the same league. this means 100T, NRG, Faze, C9 Blue etc

#39

Jayde

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Nice im wrong on the first one, if we count them as 25th (listed last by vlr but same placement in the bracket so sure) then we can say that there are 6 na teams in t1 rn and srg are top 16 in challengers (top 15 but there are 16 teams)
6+16 is 22 so even if we count both teams that pulled out they are better than c9 white.
Im not gonna argue with u anymore, its sad how much baiting there is on here nowadays

#33

snareVT

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You are so delusional just look at the stats and think again

#3

xineFso

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What tier1 teams even receive scrimming against srg

#31

Ghostjinn

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Roy/STRONGLEGS (mel's boyfriend) confirmed in a stream that practice is not the issue, and that SRG get the same amount of practice against tier 1 teams as any other tier 1 team does

#43

laeDLaer

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so whats their excuse now for being so bad then? they are recieving the same oppurtunites as everyone else but cant make any improvements.

#48

serot

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Simply put the average GC player much less SRG player isn’t cut out for more than tier 2 or tier 3 competition. It’s just a numbers game. There are just not enough female top radiants. Trans women don’t count not because I’m transphobic or whatever but because they grew up in masculine environments where fps gaming was probably normal for boys their age. It’s hard to say that holds for women even today, where women in gaming is on the rise. Just look at the ranked leaderboards and you will be hard pressed to find many women anywhere in the top 500, while tier 1 and 2 professionals are consistently there.

#63

Ghostjinn

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finally some common sense in this thread. thanks for this answer.

my one gripe with it is that surely just one woman might be able to make it into tier 1. even if women are such a minority, receiving extra support from the GC circuit, being signed to an org and getting tier 1 practice is a major advantage. i just find it a bit strange not a SINGLE non-transgender woman has been able to make it to the top level, but it is certainly a possibility

#5

Astar

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Falcons winning GCC and this SRG team will be finished and split up, how do they even be in VCL NA i dont understand

#7

Jayde

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After entering challengers (where they are a bottom mid table team at best) noone has said they are capable of t1. They are clearly not trying hard as u can see from their comps (ofc we dont have any gameplay) also pls give me an actual scrim result where they dont get completely flattened by a t1 team

#24

Ghostjinn

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i agree they didn't try in MFH but i think they are giving quite literally their all in tier 2, but their all is just horrible. it'd be weird if they tweeted about how depressing it is to lose in tier 2 if they weren't adamant on getting to tier 1, and again most of their players talk about tier 1 being a realistic end goal

#8

oiiink

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funny how theyre beating every gc team but lose to male teams even if its just a random teams that doesn't even have an org

#12

FNSaimcoach9

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yea cuz every other gc team are legit all gold players

#13

MEL_18

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very funny comment coming from a wadadaa fan

#23

Ghostjinn

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doesn't make it any less true? i have even more respect for wadadaa matter of fact because they are orgless and are yet threatening SRG's #1 NA spot

#37

Ghostjinn

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you're getting downvoted without any actual counterargument, which is a classic SRG fan response to being hit with logic, facts and reality. i would love to see a coherent SRG fan response to your statement

#14

MarvedClearsYou

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respect garydasnail ranked demon

#15

brams6661

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I think its time to accept that they need flor back

#16

MEL_18

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.

#17

Laundry

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In NA, no there’s not any salaried teams with the same results as SRG currently.

Not saying I don’t disagree with the point of this thread, I do disagree with it, but this isn’t the right point for supporting them

#20

Ghostjinn

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could I please ask which bit it is you disagree with?

#56

Laundry

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As a personal rule, I try to avoid talking about SRG too much on here because of how much bait there is, but Nabil (vlr questionnaire goat) got my main point for me :D

#65

Ghostjinn

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i wouldn't really say this thread was bait. if you do have insight that you could share please do go for it

#29

MEL_18

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You're right mb.

#22

Ghostjinn

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the other VCL teams:

don't get as high a level of scrims as SRG do
get paid pennies while SRG make bank. most of those players are either part-timing uni/college or another job to make a living, while SRG are paid above the average american
don't scrim as often as SRG do (once again, availability)
most of those VCL teams are F/A teams and aren't signed to orgs
none of those teams have players constantly saying they won't be satisfied until they make it to tier 1, therefore it is unfair to hold them to the same standard as SRG, who want to prove that they can keep up in tier 1

#25

Jayde

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Alr got some stuff to say here.

Srg have at max 10 scrims a year against pro teams that is NOTHING (prove me otherwise)
True but quite a few of other players live with their parents and/or dont have a job srg have at max 1 hr more per day compared to other top na teams
Possibly but u cant know about that for sure
Sure but half of the top table teams are
This is straight up braindead there are so many pros saying this and what does ambition say about gameplay

#28

Ghostjinn

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you pulled that number out of your ass. to prove you wrong, i asked Roy/STRONGLEGS (mel's boyfriend, former pro, t2 analyst) who said that practice was not SRG's issue and that they were being approached for practice by the top tier 1 teams, saying the notion they didn't get scrims against t1 teams was bullshit.

i won't even answer the rest because it is all either speculation or cluelessness. the evidence is out there to disprove pretty much everything else you just said

#49

serot

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imma be fr this just sounds like cope you made up on the spot

#40

MEL_18

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Ok I admit my comment was wrong, but I don't see an issue with #5. Plus just cause a F/A they don't outright say it doesn't mean they don't want to be in tier 1.

#52

segbench

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"srg make bank" ok prove it lol

#60

Ghostjinn

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my proof is that they are the undisputed best GC team and could've been bought out by 100T, TL or any other large org competing in GC. i don't have exact statistics i'll admit, but paraphrasing a three word phrase out of context completely ignores the notion that SRG are paid while others have to resort to uni/college/part time jobs and are just as competitive

#64

syndefi_x

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the main reason why they get paid that much is because they play in gc too

#18

localkoolkid

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is not uncommon for them by the way, look at the match history......

#32

Ghostjinn

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it's a cyclical pattern where they lose, say "sorry, we are depressed and we're trying, we'll be back next split, keep supporting us" with nobody tackling the fundamental issue at hand. i'm sure it's frustrating for them but it's also frustrating for viewers seeing the horde of zombie husks supporting them without displaying any concern for their competitive level and chance at winning

#69

segbench

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sounds very much like a you problem. calling their fans "zombie husks" because they support their team no matter what? LOL that's called being a good fan. look at your responses to other posts here. you aren't arguing in good faith. prefacing everything with "look, i want women to do well, i truly do" and then responding to someone who says women aren't good at the game with "SEE AT LEAST SOMEONE FUCKING SAID IT." everyone knows what you're trying to do. it's just not as veiled as you think it is. "people love to hate on those doubting SRG..." oh you poor victim lol if you actually believe there are more ppl 'hating on SRG doubters' than their are just straight up SRG haters on this site you've lost the plot and can't be helped. i'm so sorry you are constantly getting attacked by SRG fans though xD

so just help me understand... what is it exactly you want the players to do? and what do you want SRG to do? do you want the players to retire bc they aren't in T1 yet? or do you want SRG to cut these players bc they aren't in T1 yet? what exaaactly are you trying to get out of this lol

#70

Ghostjinn

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admittedly was in a rush as i was busy, the "zombie husks" wasn't specifically for loyal fans, but for fans who are so loyal they are blind to any of the issues SRG face, instead living in their own bubble and believing SRG are some incredible team who can hang in tier2/tier1 and get sensitive and attack any person who dares to rightfully criticise them.

your reading comprehension needs some serious fucking work. unbelievable how i have to debate people who can't read for shit. WHEN DID THE COMMENT SAY WOMEN WERE BAD AT FUCKING VIDEO GAMES??? the comment said - women are a minority in video games, are treated as such, and thus due to them being part of a lower sample size, there is a statistically lower chance of women making it to tier 2/tier 1, which is a well formulated and the most logical argument i've yet seen.

SRG haters, who threaten the players personally or whatever, need to get a fucking life. if your definition of haters is people saying "drop X player" or "SRG will never make it to tier 1/tier 2" then you are ignorant and sensitive to the issues SRG are facing, and thus a thread like this is not the place for you. i'm not some diehard fan of SRG so i don't get bothered by those haters, but if they are saying the former then it's wrong.

i want transparency from SRG. rather than saying "we keep losing, we'll figure it out" how about some pure, unfiltered thoughts from the players themselves? why don't they come out and speak their minds on the subject? G2 petra (WORLD FUCKING CHAMPION) says she thinks men are biologically better. right or wrong, at least she has the balls to say something about it.

i am more than happy to give you my discord when you're ready to have an actual discussion that involves reading the other person's comments and replies. until then, i have no interest in further discussing this with you.

also, i have played with in ranked and messaged several GC players. i don't really know what else i can do to prove i want women to succeed, but then again i have no obligation to prove that to you, as i know it to be true to myself

#73

segbench

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i'm going to try and be respectful. can you tell me why it bothers you so much that there are fans who believe SRG are an incredible team who can hang in tier1/2?

also, can we please just be realistic and honest with ourselves here. you've posted on this site a lot -- there are WAAAAY more SRG haters here than there are SRG fans who feel comfortable enough coming on here and 'attack' VLR users who criticize SRG. when SRG loses a challengers match, there are 10+ threads actively going up shitting on them. When SRG beat TSM, there were all of those threads being made after Map 1, and any talk about them winning after the match was just brigaded by ppl who still refused to even give them credit and attributed the whole thing to TSM throwing. the point is you seem like you are extremely offended by their fans who support them, blindly. that's just being a good fan. if fans supporting their team WITHOUT attacking other teams bothers you so much, I'm sorry but you're just kind of soft?

i'm not insensitive to ppl saying SRG will never make it to T1 or T2 lol. the reality is VLR is mostly made up of hatewatchers and ppl who pray on the downfall of other players. it's often a meme, but it's rarely supportive. and that's fine. but i respect the ppl who make SRG sucks threads after they lose and treat the team just like they treat SEN when they lose. It's not different. bc those same ppl then go and watch the next VAL up for the week and comment on and criticize that just the same. But you're so hyperfocused on SRG. you live for this shit under the guise of "i really care about women doing well here" and then you go and celebrate every reply you get where it's someone shitting on them lol

"i want transparency from srg." so go watch their streams? they talk abt competing and their mental state and approach a lot and respond to all those questions too. and if seeing "we keep losing, we'll figure it out" bothers you so much, just unfollow or block them? like do you have self control?

"G2 petra (WORLD FUCKING CHAMPION) says she thinks men are biologically better. right or wrong, at least she has the balls to say something about it." ok cool. and SR meL, alexis, noia, and sarah (WORLD FUCKING CHAMPIONS BUT TWICE) don't say they think men are biologically better. so what's the difference between the two besides you seemingly agreeing with Petra that men>women and you're mad that the SRG players don't agree with that?

"also, i have played with in ranked and messaged several GC players. i don't really know what else i can do to prove i want women to succeed, but then again i have no obligation to prove that to you, as i know it to be true to myself" my mans this is literally "i can count how many black people have been in my house so i'm not racist" language. i'm sorry but you've lost the plot infinte.

#74

Ghostjinn

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jinnghost on discord if you will. i don't plan on opening this website much and i'll respond there

#75

segbench

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you can respond here when you have time if you'd like. you had no issue responding to everyone else who agreed with you.

#76

Ghostjinn

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it's not that, i don't like the format of this website and have spent a bit too long typing long threads with you on it. as you wish.

it doesn't bother me if fans are delusional in thinking SRG will make it to tier1/2 with their current trajectory. it bothers me when they pretend
A. SRG at a tier 1/2 level currently
B. SRG should be shielded from criticism because they're a marginalised gender team, when they THEMSELVES pledge to push for tier 1 and impose the same standards on themselves as tier 1 teams do.

about SRG having more haters than supports here, i can't confirm that, but i'll agree the SRG haters are more prominent and cancerous in general. obviously this site being predominantly anonymous means SRG gain a lot of hatred. i don't think hatred is fine, i think criticism is, and at no point in this thread do i believe i've questioned the ability of the SRG players to play valorant, nor have i attacked them personally. that is wrong.

hardly read your middle paragraph but i criticise furia more than SRG, i rarely talk about SRG if anything.

i have watched their streams and haven't seen them talk much in depth about any of this. i watch noia, mel and sarah frequently. maybe i just got unlucky. i keep up with their twitters which is where pros technically should speak their thoughts and have seen little to suggest they are actually concerned or aware of the cycle they're entrapped in

about petra, i'm positive because she's speaking her free mind bravely and that's something i think has been missing from the scene. i commend her more than people saying "we need more time/resources" or other ideologies because it transcends the plane of thought that GC is currently in, and as opposed to offering shallow, interview-type answers, is actually challenging the root cause of GC growth being stunted. it doesn't fit my agenda because i have not researched the biological differences between men and women in GC, so i'm neutral on it, though i'm aware men have it easier with discrimination. if a GC player had said "women are treated badly and thus it's an unsafe environment for cultivating female talent" i'd commend them because once again, it transcends the basic NPC answers i've heard a lot of

for your last paragraph, like i said, you are respectfully a nobody to me and thus i don't have to prove myself to you. that last point was the mere evidence that i do not isolate myself from women and secretly hate them in some underground bunker. once again, i am mature enough to realise that i do not have to prove myself to you in any way, and the self-inflicted curiosity i have about this topic is discernible from misogyny or hatred of GC players. that is something i know, and you never will because you don't know me, which is fine.

apologies if i've been disrespectful. you haven't read much of what i've said, but i appreciate the thought

#77

segbench

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"hardly read your middle paragraph but..." don't tell me i didn't read what you wrote when you literally just admitted to not reading me. not only did i read all of your messages to me, but i've taken the time to read through everything you've seen throughout this entire thread. mel and sarah talk about these things on twitter all the time. mel just talked about misogyny last week. if anything, they talk about this publicly far more than petra. you only bring up her response bc it aligns with what you believe and what you want to hear. thinking that it's "brave" for a woman to come out and proclaim men > women in a male dominated scene is laughable. i'm done chatting about this with you.

#78

Ghostjinn

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i have just read everything you said before, but this argument is dying out and so my brain isn't able to comprehend much of what you're saying. upon reading it, i don't think anything changes. i am an equal critic of GC teams with high hopes as i am of the male teams. i dislike SRB, Furia, 2G, mibr etc for their systematic problems, and i'm not targeting SRG because of their gender.

perhaps i've missed mel's post or sarah's, but from what i've seen, they just seem disappointed and broken at how they're performing. addressing misogyny is a good start, and i would like to hear more from them about how they actually plan to overcome those root causes. at the moment their strategy appears to be running headfirst into a brick wall, falling over and trying it again.

i don't see the need in debating this whole petra thing again. as i said, you have no idea about my politics or agenda, and assume i want to establish men being superior at video games to women, when i've claimed not to have researched it whatsoever. it's brave in the sense she's addressing an issue GC teams are playing with an actual, direct response, and not some "we will keep trying" bullshit. statements that enter the political sphere and tackle identity issues are exactly what i want.

additional tip: don't feel entitled to having someone else read your entire statement in depth after you continuously mock/mistreat the other person by spinning their words against them and blatantly rephrasing/not reading parts of their statements. have a learned day

continue thread →

#36

snareVT

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SRG is nowhere near t1 and are barely close to tier 2

#41

SleepingSnorlax

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GC is still far from sight with the exceptions of apac I think apac GC players will at some point might prove T1 vct level quality just because of the playstyle but for rest of the region i don’t think so

#50

seven_glazer

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mourinho said it 10 years ago

#51

mathias2

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as someone who wants to see them do well, it’s frustrating how 4/5 of this roster have been together for 2 years, earning a fulltime salary and it seems like they r barely improving. I’m not smart enough to know why, but it’s just sad to see them lose to unsalaried T2/T3 teams for years.. it’s hard to defend atp

#54

segbench

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you guys don't HAVE to follow them. if they are sooo frustrating and you don't see improvement, why do you feel the need to make the same thread every single week lol go follow another team if you don't like SRG? it's perplexing how much time you spend discussing this when you can literally just not pay attention and go give another "more competitive team" your time lol

#57

mathias2

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I’m only frustrated bc I like the team lol, I think a GC team in tier 1 would be rlly cool and good for the game.. I guess ill just stop caring tho :D

#59

Ghostjinn

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once again, you're evading the issue at hand and instead trying to make OP seem like they're wasting their time.

i want women to do well in the valo scene. i'm aware that means having tough conversations and holding them to high standards (which, bear in mind, they hold themselves to). if you find it more comfortable to hide in your little SRG bubble where they continue to beat up GC teams, please go ahead, i won't stop you. likewise, if someone actually wants to discuss with facts and logic their chances of achieving their goal and womens' goal in esports in general, then fuck off with the useless discourse.

#55

nabil

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its an agent ban tournament, there are 10 unique agents every lobby it literally doesnt matter

#58

Ghostjinn

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wasn't aware of this.

as for SRG's constant stagnation despite good hours of practice against tier 1 teams, being signed to a big org and having arguably the best player in each role within GC? being relegated twice in the last 2 challengers while orgless teams are surviving? how on earth can anyone say with a straight face that their trajectory is headed upwards?

#66

saebr

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brother it's literally on the event page description. i literally saw them lose, saw them using these fuck ass comps and immediately figured that much out in like 2 mins. how has it taken 58 posts for someone to say this?

#67

Ghostjinn

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i had yet to see a MFH tournament with a twist, thought they were pretty much all standard and for people to get recognised/have fun, so that part is my bad. any comment on them using their fully prepared full strength comps to teams like Legacy Kingdom, Funhavers and Hakikimori?

#68

Jinxypoo

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they do mfh's with twists quite alot. if you go back and look for the "mad science" funhavers they are exactly that

#71

Ahnri

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The evidence is in them beating TSM. You all need to stop thinking team are at a set specific level rather than a range.

#72

Ghostjinn

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i take a more holistic approach than looking at a bo3 where TSM were playing with 2 new standins for the 2nd time ever, before going on to a 4 VCL winstreak. i'm glad they won, and it'd be nice if they kept it up for the rest of the swiss stage, which they did not