goat tier list

https://imgur.com/a/PPtj5bZ

criteria:
longevity (years, metas, teams u were good)
good (were u good)
mvps
trophies
consistency (was it a life tournament)
cmvps (if u were champs mvp ur automatically A tier)

dont think much abt where igls are. it is impossible to rank them, far more so than duelists, for example

Also the tiers aren’t ordered. So if someone is at the front of C tier they’re not better than someone at the end of C tier

One more thing ^^ F tier is only for players who won internationals but don’t deserve to make the list any higher. I wanted to include every international winner

Demon1

Azzelastia [#2]

Demon1

A tier 🤓

no

Hynix [#4]

no

actually this is pretty good in terms of the tiers. orders within them suck though

Hynix [#5]

actually this is pretty good in terms of the tiers. orders within them suck though

Oh ur right I should’ve mentioned

The tiers aren’t ordered they’re just tiered

No , the tenz glaze never ends right and then put derke before aspas , cned exists in this list tf? Along with zombs, sick? Putting zekken over Mako? Tho Mako is here for way longer and has played consistenly awesome while this is first op year from zekken, forsaken in C tier , putting texture below zekken tho head to head texture would win

best flex player in valorant history sitting in C tier 💀
crashies, victor, and marved, and FNS should be S at minimum

Fact that mako and stax are that high up without any int trophy hurts my heart man. Also Buzz should be C if I'm being honest (although you could argue that he had his inconsistent moments). and if you are putting zombs/mindfreak, id put rb too, man survived every meta changes by doing well in every role he was assigned to. Like scream over buzz is not it for me. I'd argue about t3x and zek too and kinggg's addition

KClaw [#7]

No , the tenz glaze never ends right and then put derke before aspas , cned exists in this list tf? Along with zombs, sick? Putting zekken over Mako? Tho Mako is here for way longer and has played consistenly awesome while this is first op year from zekken, forsaken in C tier , putting texture below zekken tho head to head texture would win

Nah mako and zekken are in the same tier, it isn’t ordered

Also cned goated. great stats, won a regional masters in dinosaur valorant with like 112 kills in the grand final. carried his team at Berlin, won champs and played good. did nothing for a year, joined a new team in a new meta where he couldn’t op crutch, played good and got top 4 at lock//in, his team was great at champs 23, but they got a group of death. Joined a third team, played raze on half the maps, took them to 5th-6th at Shanghai with good stats, made champs but did nothing there

He qualified to 6 lans, with 3 different teams, in 3 different years, with great numbers
Maybe he could be lower tier, but he should be somewhere

And ur right I forgot to mention something else
I wanted to include every intl winner, so F tier exists for people who don’t deserve to make the list but won an international

kanyefan4238173 [#10]

Nah mako and zekken are in the same tier, it isn’t ordered

Also cned goated. great stats, won a regional masters in dinosaur valorant with like 112 kills in the grand final. carried his team at Berlin, won champs and played good. did nothing for a year, joined a new team in a new meta where he couldn’t op crutch, played good and got top 4 at lock//in, his team was great at champs 23, but they got a group of death. Joined a third team, played raze on half the maps, took them to 5th-6th at Shanghai with good stats, made champs but did nothing there

He qualified to 6 lans, with 3 different teams, in 3 different years, with great numbers
Maybe he could be lower tier, but he should be somewhere

And ur right I forgot to mention something else
I wanted to include every intl winner, so F tier exists for people who don’t deserve to make the list but won an international

I wanted to include every intl winner, so F tier exists for people who don’t deserve to make the list but won an international

oh i get it now, you can ignore the zombs part in my reply mate. Really refreshing to see these ranks btw.

top couple of tiers are fine and then it falls apart and feels like RNG

nobody___100 [#12]

top couple of tiers are fine and then it falls apart and feels like RNG

i think the OP may have forgotten about some players and the line between tiers and players got ambiguous as it goes to tier C/D

dort [#8]

best flex player in valorant history sitting in C tier 💀
crashies, victor, and marved, and FNS should be S at minimum

then what's the maximum

nobody___100 [#12]

top couple of tiers are fine and then it falls apart and feels like RNG

Yeah the bottom is very blurry but I can explain why someone is in one tier opposed to another

Like leaf is a tier above jawgemo because jawgemo was only good in like half a year, but leaf was good way back in 2021 up to modern day. On way more metas and teams too. And even at each of their peaks jawgemo wasnt much better than leaf, if at all

KClaw [#7]

No , the tenz glaze never ends right and then put derke before aspas , cned exists in this list tf? Along with zombs, sick? Putting zekken over Mako? Tho Mako is here for way longer and has played consistenly awesome while this is first op year from zekken, forsaken in C tier , putting texture below zekken tho head to head texture would win

putting texture below zekken tho head to head texture would win

We don't have to do a "would win" since they went head to head 4 times this year and Zekken is up by 11 vs T3xture

Suzu

yay goat tier

Why finnesee in C9 jersey?

why is yay so high?

-no longevity
-was only good on one team
-was only good with pre-nerf chamber and pre-nerf jett
-no mvps
-1 farmers era trophy
-no regional trophy
-no champs mvps
-relegated from challengers
-winless for half of his career

Level [#20]

why is yay so high?

-no longevity
-was only good on one team
-was only good with pre-nerf chamber and pre-nerf jett
-no mvps
-1 farmers era trophy
-no regional trophy
-no champs mvps
-relegated from challengers
-winless for half of his career

his 2022 might be the best year I’ve seen from a player ever. Aspas never had a year that good, neither did Derke or alfajer. Maybe Leo did in 2023, but I still think yays year might have been better. Yays peak was so long and great and I think his team held him back honestly.

Leo gets chronicle, alfajer and derke
Yay gets victor and crashies, and has to go up against loud 22, the best roster ever

No diss to victor and crashies, but they’re not chronicle, or alfajer, or pancada in their respective peaks

kangkang doesn't belong in A tier imo

Level [#20]

why is yay so high?

-no longevity
-was only good on one team
-was only good with pre-nerf chamber and pre-nerf jett
-no mvps
-1 farmers era trophy
-no regional trophy
-no champs mvps
-relegated from challengers
-winless for half of his career

coz he's the goat

YOU HAVENT PUT MUCH THOUGHT INTO THIS IF YOURE PUTTING CRYO, SOMETHING, REINS, JAWGEMO, AND BUZZ IN D TIER FOR EXAMPLE. I DONT APPRECIATE TIER LISTS THAT ACT LIKE IT WASNT DONE OFF OF INSTINCT AND BIAS. ITS ALSO WEIRD TO SEE YOU PUT TENZ IN S TIER WHEN KK HAS AN OBJECTIVELY BETTER CAREER, GROUPING HIM UP WITH PLAYERS LIKE LEO, ALFAJER, AND ASPAS, BUT YOU DO YOU.

kanyefan4238173 [#21]

his 2022 might be the best year I’ve seen from a player ever. Aspas never had a year that good, neither did Derke or alfajer. Maybe Leo did in 2023, but I still think yays year might have been better. Yays peak was so long and great and I think his team held him back honestly.

Leo gets chronicle, alfajer and derke
Yay gets victor and crashies, and has to go up against loud 22, the best roster ever

No diss to victor and crashies, but they’re not chronicle, or alfajer, or pancada in their respective peaks

His 2022 performance was balanced out by his 2023 performance, making him an average player overall, and his 2024 performance has only made things worse. Peak performance is not the only factor

Put TenZ in GOAT, thats the only correct answer

pretty much valid
but since this is for goat I think C and D tier are kinda unneeded

Pyr0t [#23]

coz he's the goat

What kind of goat gets relegated from Tier 2 to Tier 3?

Level [#25]

His 2022 performance was balanced out by his 2023 performance, making him an average player overall, and his 2024 performance has only made things worse. Peak performance is not the only factor

I get that, but I don’t rlly think of it that way

A good year is more impactful than a bad year, I still value longevity, which is why t3xture is only B tier, and honestly I thought of putting him even lower

But the way I see it a bad year is no worse than not playing at all. Like d3ffo 24, yay 23, Lakia 22, aspas 21 are bad years, and I don’t think of it more than that

Aayan [#27]

pretty much valid
but since this is for goat I think C and D tier are kinda unneeded

Wait that’s so true

Why is trexx in a goat list, guys played like 2 internationals
Or jawgemo, he had one good event

kanyefan4238173 [#15]

Yeah the bottom is very blurry but I can explain why someone is in one tier opposed to another

Like leaf is a tier above jawgemo because jawgemo was only good in like half a year, but leaf was good way back in 2021 up to modern day. On way more metas and teams too. And even at each of their peaks jawgemo wasnt much better than leaf, if at all

ok ill give some random changes that catch my eye

• forsaken gotta be higher bro he's done well for years on every role
• having suy/crashies/c0m/victor in the same tier as sheydos/lakia/shahzam is diabolical. those guys all performed for 2 years or more and have multiple top 4 placements to their name (3/4/3/4) vs the other guys who did good for one or two tournaments and did nothing for the rest of vct history
• the fuck is kingg doing in D bro. top 1 player at champs 22, top 3 in americas league 23, placed 3rd at champs 24 as igl. at least give him C or B

kanyefan4238173 [#29]

I get that, but I don’t rlly think of it that way

A good year is more impactful than a bad year, I still value longevity, which is why t3xture is only B tier, and honestly I thought of putting him even lower

But the way I see it a bad year is no worse than not playing at all. Like d3ffo 24, yay 23, Lakia 22, aspas 21 are bad years, and I don’t think of it more than that

this is buff163 alt dont even bother

nobody___100 [#31]

ok ill give some random changes that catch my eye

• forsaken gotta be higher bro he's done well for years on every role
• having suy/crashies/c0m/victor in the same tier as sheydos/lakia/shahzam is diabolical. those guys all performed for 2 years or more and have multiple top 4 placements to their name (3/4/3/4) vs the other guys who did good for one or two tournaments and did nothing for the rest of vct history
• the fuck is kingg doing in D bro. top 1 player at champs 22, top 3 in americas league 23, placed 3rd at champs 24 as igl. at least give him C or B

F0rsaken is buns, i don’t think I’ve seen a worse breach util in tier 1, same applies to his sova and cypher. No outstanding international events from him either

Okay true tbh C tier is way too big

Kingg maybe, but he’s never placed 1st, or 2nd, or 4th. Just 3rd once. Most guys in C tier have placed above 3rd, some of them multiple times

kanyefan4238173 [#29]

I get that, but I don’t rlly think of it that way

A good year is more impactful than a bad year, I still value longevity, which is why t3xture is only B tier, and honestly I thought of putting him even lower

But the way I see it a bad year is no worse than not playing at all. Like d3ffo 24, yay 23, Lakia 22, aspas 21 are bad years, and I don’t think of it more than that

For a fair ranking, a good year and a bad year should have the same impact. And honestly, not playing is definitely better than getting relegated from Challengers. FNS missed nearly an entire season, and nobody made a big deal about it. People still rank him as a top 3 IGL of all time.

F0rsaken in C tier is a joke, this guy carried PRX by flexing on almost every agent. He is the reason PRX’s bizarre strategies even got them to a fucking champs final.

kanyefan4238173 [#30]

Wait that’s so true

Why is trexx in a goat list, guys played like 2 internationals
Or jawgemo, he had one good event

Just change the tier name to potential GOATs

0 champs trophies on Chronicle
not even is the main carry of his team (gets carried) [first nAts, then Leo/Alfa]
MVP once only

GOAT???
Not hating but, even Leo has greater impact/stats/performance than him

and if u bring up same trophy shit... then none of them r CHAMPS trophies and one is from Invitational event so......

Sacy up to S imo. Won on 2 different teams in 2 different languages, completely different meta etc. Only guy to win a champs and a masters and was very pivotal on both teams. As good as Loud were they never won any international after they split the roster but Sacy went on to win again without them. Very smart player and from every credible source I've heard is vocal with mid-round calls which doesn't really reflect much in stats but certainly does with results

Suygetsu over ange1. My goat IGL and truly iconic but suy was FPX's best player consistently throughout Copenhagen, before and after really. Shao got deserved shine as the clutch king but Suy is him and always was for that team

Jaw up he was legit insane at champs and throughout that year for EG, should be same tier as c0m for sure. Demon1 gets all the credit for being a frag demon on that EG team but jaw was right up there with him

Not sure what scream is doing here tbh, same for leaf who is a great player but what did he ever win? Or even make a final outside of domestic league. Future contender for the list 100% but at present i dont think so

kamisavitar [#37]

0 champs trophies on Chronicle
not even is the main carry of his team (gets carried) [first nAts, then Leo/Alfa]
MVP once only

GOAT???
Not hating but, even Leo has greater impact/stats/performance than him

and if u bring up same trophy shit... then none of them r CHAMPS trophies and one is from Invitational event so......

If you watched Valorant in 2021 and 2022 you'd know he wasn't carried by nAts

GRAYOUT [#24]

YOU HAVENT PUT MUCH THOUGHT INTO THIS IF YOURE PUTTING CRYO, SOMETHING, REINS, JAWGEMO, AND BUZZ IN D TIER FOR EXAMPLE. I DONT APPRECIATE TIER LISTS THAT ACT LIKE IT WASNT DONE OFF OF INSTINCT AND BIAS. ITS ALSO WEIRD TO SEE YOU PUT TENZ IN S TIER WHEN KK HAS AN OBJECTIVELY BETTER CAREER, GROUPING HIM UP WITH PLAYERS LIKE LEO, ALFAJER, AND ASPAS, BUT YOU DO YOU.

wont read capslock

i saw the top the list and i saw ur based agreed

y0y not that high

kanyefan4238173 [#3]

A tier 🤓

no longetivity
was good
was champs mvp
one trophy
what does life tournament mean?

Why Demon1 so high? He literally just played well Champions, and if wasn't for Mibr he didn't even appears in that list

And by your logic, Jawgemo on D? Don't make sense, he had the same results as Demon1

massive MASSIVE disrecpect to leaf

Level [#34]

For a fair ranking, a good year and a bad year should have the same impact. And honestly, not playing is definitely better than getting relegated from Challengers. FNS missed nearly an entire season, and nobody made a big deal about it. People still rank him as a top 3 IGL of all time.

I completely disagree. If we look at it like that then xeppaa would have a better franchising legacy than benjyfishy. Or lightning fast > jakee

The peak is always the most important thing. Yes other things are considered, that’s why yay isn’t top 3 for me, if it was only about peak he’d be top 1. I care way more about what a player did at their greatest than how bad they were at their worst

Like in football, Messi could gain 40 pounds, drop stinkers in the mls for 3 more seasons, scoring a total of 3 goals and 4 assists across another 90 matches. But wouldn’t care, he’d still be the goat

fuck b0tnicle doing at the top? this guy has been the worst player on every roster he's ever been on (not counting Boaster because he's subhuman)

idkmanwth [#43]

no longetivity
was good
was champs mvp
one trophy
what does life tournament mean?

he was champs mvp which made him go to A tier

babysasuke [#47]

fuck b0tnicle doing at the top? this guy has been the worst player on every roster he's ever been on (not counting Boaster because he's subhuman)

Boaster and demon1 on the same tier????????????? nah you're baiting, you got me for a second too

kamisavitar [#37]

0 champs trophies on Chronicle
not even is the main carry of his team (gets carried) [first nAts, then Leo/Alfa]
MVP once only

GOAT???
Not hating but, even Leo has greater impact/stats/performance than him

and if u bring up same trophy shit... then none of them r CHAMPS trophies and one is from Invitational event so......

saying nats carried chronicle is more delusional than ge fans believing their team will get anywhere

GattoVLR [#44]

Why Demon1 so high? He literally just played well Champions, and if wasn't for Mibr he didn't even appears in that list

And by your logic, Jawgemo on D? Don't make sense, he had the same results as Demon1

he was champs mvp

Aspas for a lot

raavv [#38]

Sacy up to S imo. Won on 2 different teams in 2 different languages, completely different meta etc. Only guy to win a champs and a masters and was very pivotal on both teams. As good as Loud were they never won any international after they split the roster but Sacy went on to win again without them. Very smart player and from every credible source I've heard is vocal with mid-round calls which doesn't really reflect much in stats but certainly does with results

Suygetsu over ange1. My goat IGL and truly iconic but suy was FPX's best player consistently throughout Copenhagen, before and after really. Shao got deserved shine as the clutch king but Suy is him and always was for that team

Jaw up he was legit insane at champs and throughout that year for EG, should be same tier as c0m for sure. Demon1 gets all the credit for being a frag demon on that EG team but jaw was right up there with him

Not sure what scream is doing here tbh, same for leaf who is a great player but what did he ever win? Or even make a final outside of domestic league. Future contender for the list 100% but at present i dont think so

I think leaf is goated, I thought he was a better player than jaw in 2023, but without the trophies ofc

The reason why he’s above is his longevity, leaf was having insane performances way back in 2021 champs, and continued it over multiple metas and different teams. Jawgemo only really had one good event, it’s better than anything leaf has done, but I think leaf has done a lot

Also leaf made a role change, he was a flex who would play initiator, went to raze for a bit and looked good there, went to sentinel and was still good. I’m a big fan of any player who changes their role like that, same with Tenz and chronicle

And scream was just so good in 2021 I felt like he deserved at least C tier. He was also really good in 2022. He didn’t do much, but whenever he made an international he looked like a top 5 player in the event

catNmouse [#48]

he was champs mvp which made him go to A tier

they dont understand how good demon1 is but let them rejoice for little time

kanyefan4238173 [#53]

I think leaf is goated, I thought he was a better player than jaw in 2023, but without the trophies ofc

The reason why he’s above is his longevity, leaf was having insane performances way back in 2021 champs, and continued it over multiple metas and different teams. Jawgemo only really had one good event, it’s better than anything leaf has done, but I think leaf has done a lot

Also leaf made a role change, he was a flex who would play initiator, went to raze for a bit and looked good there, went to sentinel and was still good. I’m a big fan of any player who changes their role like that, same with Tenz and chronicle

And scream was just so good in 2021 I felt like he deserved at least C tier. He was also really good in 2022. He didn’t do much, but whenever he made an international he looked like a top 5 player in the event

nah jawgemo was good in tokyo too, single-handedly shit on loud in playoffs and massively improved compared to his vct americas form. he should atleast move up to C

Saadhak should be more high in A tier, he is a great igl and a fragging player
Close to Sacy.

babysasuke [#49]

Boaster and demon1 on the same tier????????????? nah you're baiting, you got me for a second too

just had to read the name to know it's dogshit

nutab1e [#57]

just had to read the name to know it's dogshit

It's actually one of those "the more you look at it the worse it gets" type pictures

blud has flippin dawgemo on the same tier as s0mething

Fuck I forgot nobody and s1mon

Nobody prob C tier and s1mon D or maybe even F the guy played like 4 months

kanyefan4238173 [#59]

Fuck I forgot nobody and s1mon

Nobody prob C tier and s1mon D or maybe even F the guy played like 4 months

Nobody C and s1mon D for now

kanyefan4238173 [#59]

Fuck I forgot nobody and s1mon

Nobody prob C tier and s1mon D or maybe even F the guy played like 4 months

kanyefan4238173 this is the worst tier list I have ever seen in my entire life

babysasuke [#61]

kanyefan4238173 this is the worst tier list I have ever seen in my entire life

It’s not that bad

I’m sry abt boaster I know how u feel.. but the igls are just kinda wherever, their placement is admittedly without much thought

kanyefan4238173 [#62]

It’s not that bad

I’m sry abt boaster I know how u feel.. but the igls are just kinda wherever, their placement is admittedly without much thought

It's not just that fam, the whole thing is jacked 😞

catNmouse [#48]

he was champs mvp which made him go to A tier

yeah ik, im just stating the criterias

Nutzzz [#45]

massive MASSIVE disrecpect to leaf

https://imgur.com/a/b3X9zEv

give link kanyefan iwanadoit too

n1cf [#66]

give link kanyefan iwanadoit too

i didnt find a good one, i had to add some myself

i just googled vct players tier list maker

MARVED! THE G.O.A.T some call him the FLOAT(fattest legend of all time)

nutab1e [#57]

just had to read the name to know it's dogshit

What does that mean

catNmouse [#50]

saying nats carried chronicle is more delusional than ge fans believing their team will get anywhere

Go check ALL overall stats in all official tourneya nAts was the best in GMB/M3C Everytime since EMEA challengers in 2021

Except champs'21 overall, but there too nAts got +31 in GF and again proved his worth

kamisavitar [#70]

Go check ALL overall stats in all official tourneya nAts was the best in GMB/M3C Everytime since EMEA challengers in 2021

Except champs'21 overall, but there too nAts got +31 in GF and again proved his worth

even if nats was better ( i think chronicle better) he definitely wasnt carried
he was the best player in their grand final easy

he wasnt carried in fnatic either, but i understand that was just hyperbole

kanyefan4238173 [#71]

even if nats was better ( i think chronicle better) he definitely wasnt carried
he was the best player in their grand final easy

he wasnt carried in fnatic either, but i understand that was just hyperbole

Yup then a Goat should not even be comparable or be marginally better...
A GOAT is fking GOAT dat drop the numbers and carry

Like
Aspas (2nd Highest Rating All-time)
and KK (highest ACS all time)
Both Champs and MVPs multiple times

Go all in or Go Home
HM: Leo (Highest Rated Plyr All-time)
Consistent+has peaks
Such a shame that PPL ignore him, and put up players like d0rke, Chronicle ABV him

kamisavitar [#72]

Yup then a Goat should not even be comparable or be marginally better...
A GOAT is fking GOAT dat drop the numbers and carry

Like
Aspas (2nd Highest Rating All-time)
and KK (highest ACS all time)
Both Champs and MVPs multiple times

Go all in or Go Home
HM: Leo (Highest Rated Plyr All-time)
Consistent+has peaks
Such a shame that PPL ignore him, and put up players like d0rke, Chronicle ABV him

i wouldnt say that aspas was ever mvp

are u saying that i should call zeek the goat?? cause im so down. 1x champs and 1x mvp

kanyefan4238173 [#73]

i wouldnt say that aspas was ever mvp

are u saying that i should call zeek the goat?? cause im so down. 1x champs and 1x mvp

Aspas is regional MVP too unlike Zeek
+Aspas won regional too in franchise, unlike.... Let's not go there

kamisavitar [#72]

Yup then a Goat should not even be comparable or be marginally better...
A GOAT is fking GOAT dat drop the numbers and carry

Like
Aspas (2nd Highest Rating All-time)
and KK (highest ACS all time)
Both Champs and MVPs multiple times

Go all in or Go Home
HM: Leo (Highest Rated Plyr All-time)
Consistent+has peaks
Such a shame that PPL ignore him, and put up players like d0rke, Chronicle ABV him

derke has been consistent since the games release though… always a top performing player at every champs and some masters events

catNmouse [#75]

derke has been consistent since the games release though… always a top performing player at every champs and some masters events

The stats Speak unbiasedly for whose consistent since release and there r huge no. Of players in between Leo and Derke...
Not even comparable

kamisavitar [#74]

Aspas is regional MVP too unlike Zeek
+Aspas won regional too in franchise, unlike.... Let's not go there

regionals 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱

kamisavitar [#76]

The stats Speak unbiasedly for whose consistent since release and there r huge no. Of players in between Leo and Derke...
Not even comparable

derke:
top 1 champs 2021
top 4 champs 2022
fell off a bit in champs 2023 but he was still good enough to hang
top 1 in champs 2024 (trexx didn’t make it past groups im not including him)

you know there is a reason people put derke high up there. i think leo is better but derke really isn’t far behind as you think he is lol

if you put davai at B might as well put f0rsaken in there too, davai is kinda meh until mid of 2023

Level [#28]

What kind of goat gets relegated from Tier 2 to Tier 3?

my goat

kanyefan4238173 [#53]

I think leaf is goated, I thought he was a better player than jaw in 2023, but without the trophies ofc

The reason why he’s above is his longevity, leaf was having insane performances way back in 2021 champs, and continued it over multiple metas and different teams. Jawgemo only really had one good event, it’s better than anything leaf has done, but I think leaf has done a lot

Also leaf made a role change, he was a flex who would play initiator, went to raze for a bit and looked good there, went to sentinel and was still good. I’m a big fan of any player who changes their role like that, same with Tenz and chronicle

And scream was just so good in 2021 I felt like he deserved at least C tier. He was also really good in 2022. He didn’t do much, but whenever he made an international he looked like a top 5 player in the event

I do think leaf is a great player but to put him on a goat list seems a stretch too far (for now) to me. During 2022 he achieved nothing relevant internationally, 2023 the first year of franchising the same. A great player domestically in Americas but he has only just started qualifying for internationals. Personally I love the roster and I think they can make a very deep tournament run but with current achievements I don't see it for leaf

Scream fell off hard and frankly in present day he's only spoken about because he is/was popular. 2021 he was great but never even made a final and this was his peak. 2022 worse results and then fell down to average duelist level individual stats only slightly above jampii, 2023 worse still.

Needless to say it's your list not mine and for leaf I do kinda get it since he has been doing consistently quite well for a long time but for scream idk man he just has always seemed overhyped to me. Nothing post-2021 is particularly impressive about him no disrespect and in 2021 he never made a final either

raavv [#81]

I do think leaf is a great player but to put him on a goat list seems a stretch too far (for now) to me. During 2022 he achieved nothing relevant internationally, 2023 the first year of franchising the same. A great player domestically in Americas but he has only just started qualifying for internationals. Personally I love the roster and I think they can make a very deep tournament run but with current achievements I don't see it for leaf

Scream fell off hard and frankly in present day he's only spoken about because he is/was popular. 2021 he was great but never even made a final and this was his peak. 2022 worse results and then fell down to average duelist level individual stats only slightly above jampii, 2023 worse still.

Needless to say it's your list not mine and for leaf I do kinda get it since he has been doing consistently quite well for a long time but for scream idk man he just has always seemed overhyped to me. Nothing post-2021 is particularly impressive about him no disrespect and in 2021 he never made a final either

The thing with scream is that if he he had his 2021 performance in 2024 he would be a shoe in for C tier, let alone his 2022 performance

The game just changed in a way negative for him

mountain goat best goat 🔥🔥🔥