I'm not gonna be a weirdo here and say "why do we need game changers if women are equal to men" bc thats just stupid, but there's a real problem with pathways from GC into the tier 2 scene. The way it stands right now I don't see any real incentive for a top tier GC player to EVER compete in tier 2, as GC teams have more consistent support from orgs as well as more guaranteed salaries. Why would someone who's on a top tier GC team to ever move to a tier 2 team if thats the case. There needs to be better pathways to facilitate gc talent into tier 2, but i don't really see how, possibly by making the top gc team from a region auto qualify into that region's challengers system?
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babysasuke [#2]make a tier 2 team and salary 5 game changers players then tf
That's just undeserved
The problem rn is that
Why would you go and play in anything other than a top 2 tier 2 team for "respect" when you can stay in GC and earn much more
Denjisideals [#4]That's just undeserved
The problem rn is that
Why would you go and play in anything other than a top 2 tier 2 team for "respect" when you can stay in GC and earn much more
You wouldn't
You would enjoy playing in GC tournaments and cashing checks
as opposed to making no money and losing every series in Challengers
Paraplant [#3]it won't help (at least rn) because for example only flor is deserving of t2 - all other SR players aren't there yet
so the team overall is still shit in comparison
the only way to fix all problems is just make a normal t2 scene
Nah I think Sarahcat and maybe starbound could
Paraplant [#3]it won't help (at least rn) because for example only flor is deserving of t2 - all other SR players aren't there yet
so the team overall is still shit in comparison
the only way to fix all problems is just make a normal t2 scene
well a good way to help teams improve would be to expose them to better competition, if SR and other gc powerhouses just stomp on objectively inferior competition all the time that's not exactly conducive to growth which is why I think getting them a guaranteed challengers spot may be helpful to the development in the scene in the long run
V0sotros [#10]well a good way to help teams improve would be to expose them to better competition, if SR and other gc powerhouses just stomp on objectively inferior competition all the time that's not exactly conducive to growth which is why I think getting them a guaranteed challengers spot may be helpful to the development in the scene in the long run
this would be a good idea if SR didn't already try to play in challengers last year - unfortunately they got shit on
it's just unfair to t2 teams to not get a spot because an objectively worse team was gifted it
Wingull [#9]first ever genuinely constructive criticism of GC on this site, never thought I'd see the day when a post about GC isn't just transphobia or misogyny
nah this happens often its just buried underneath the rage baits and transphobia
babysasuke [#7]You wouldn't
You would enjoy playing in GC tournaments and cashing checks
as opposed to making no money and losing every series in Challengers
well that just goes against the entire purpose of having the gc circuit in the first place, its express purpose is to facilitate pathways for women and other marginalized populations into esports but if you just stick them in their own circuit and never interact with the wider esports ecosystem then how are they gonna make their way into the competitive valorant pyramid
Swarleyyy [#5]I wish they got a slot in t2 or sth on winning gc.
They can't get to T2 off of open quals. They don't deserve an auto qual spot.
V0sotros [#13]well that just goes against the entire purpose of having the gc circuit in the first place, its express purpose is to facilitate pathways for women and other marginalized populations into esports but if you just stick them in their own circuit and never interact with the wider esports ecosystem then how are they gonna make their way into the competitive valorant pyramid
its not a feeder league like Challengers is supposed to be
It's a way to expand the reach and playerbase of the game. If any of these players or teams were T1/T2 caliber, they would (or maybe should, I remember mel saying something about teams refusing her trials or something) have their chance.
Or would you rather they just don't have game changers, make no money, and esports stays 100% represented by 16-25 year old males
bobwoblob [#14]You act like most of these GC teams give a shit about getting into T2 in the first place. The vast majority of them never even try playing in T2 quals.
Also if they can't make it to T2 on their own merits, then an auto qual is unjustified.
well the entire purpose of gc is as a developmental system to get women and marginalized people into tier 2 and the wider valorant ecosystem so if gc teams dont give a shit about getting to tier 2 then something needs to fundamentally change about the entire system to change this ideology
kanyefan4238173 [#8]Nah I think Sarahcat and maybe starbound could
Agreed on Sarah. She definitely has well-proven skill that could put her in the options for a Tier 2 player. Not sure about Starbound given they had some good moments in GC, but not on the same level as Sarah. Another issue that relates to OP is that the deadline to lock in rosters for NA Challengers and the end of GC is the same date so there is no chance for SR to even get a chance at Challengers now let alone Tier 2. That being said, there was last year when SR bombed out in open qualifiers for Challengers to pick-up teams. There is definitely a path for GC teams to get into Tier 2, but it is very, very rough and in this year's situation, it is unfair due to timings. Top GC players can earn a decent salary in a top org - few of which actually exist in NA, but there are plenty in EMEA and even APAC - but it is more so winning trophies and being remembered which is what counts for a lot of these players who get to go to GCC. Going into Tier 2 means starting at the bottom again which is a huge risk that some of these players don't want to hazard, but it will be a long-term benefit if they eventually improve and fight to ascend.
midzera [#18]Agreed on Sarah. She definitely has well-proven skill that could put her in the options for a Tier 2 player. Not sure about Starbound given they had some good moments in GC, but not on the same level as Sarah. Another issue that relates to OP is that the deadline to lock in rosters for NA Challengers and the end of GC is the same date so there is no chance for SR to even get a chance at Challengers now let alone Tier 2. That being said, there was last year when SR bombed out in open qualifiers for Challengers to pick-up teams. There is definitely a path for GC teams to get into Tier 2, but it is very, very rough and in this year's situation, it is unfair due to timings. Top GC players can earn a decent salary in a top org - few of which actually exist in NA, but there are plenty in EMEA and even APAC - but it is more so winning trophies and being remembered which is what counts for a lot of these players who get to go to GCC. Going into Tier 2 means starting at the bottom again which is a huge risk that some of these players don't want to hazard, but it will be a long-term benefit if they eventually improve and fight to ascend.
you ALWAYS type so much. can I get bullet points
x_knowitall39_x [#19]you ALWAYS type so much. can I get bullet points
No this guy is actually spitting, like maybe it sounded bad, but I get it, I'm a yapper and paragraphing is extremely helpful otherwise people just won't read it
WHY AM I GETTING DOWNVOTED YOU DON'T LIKE TO READ BIG BLOBS AS WELL. Just paragraph sentence by sentence or point by point it doesn't need to make sense if it looks like a big blob ppl skip it did we not take like 9th grader or something level english imma need to see your report cards share it with the class.
kitsuneHP [#20]exactly what ive been saying for months. trash players getting more "success" whilst players who are just not good enough for t1 live miserably with 0 job security
I mean I would actually say T2 is way less entertaining than GC
V0sotros [#17]well the entire purpose of gc is as a developmental system to get women and marginalized people into tier 2 and the wider valorant ecosystem so if gc teams dont give a shit about getting to tier 2 then something needs to fundamentally change about the entire system to change this ideology
They would need to make it less financially viable to be a perma GC farmer and more financially viable to play in T2. But that would require Riot giving a shit about T2 so that won't happen.
bobwoblob [#23]They would need to make it less financially viable to be a perma GC farmer and more financially viable to play in T2. But that would require Riot giving a shit about T2 so that won't happen.
They should limit it to 2 years . After that player have to leave gc .
MurphyOW [#22]I mean I would actually say T2 is way less entertaining than GC
It's just good casting, production and marketing . Valorant feels more intense when things are on line . Like bigger price , knockout match of team you like etc etc . They just have to up the rewards , and wait for some stories to develop and it will be popular in no time .
Totally_not_a_altt [#24]They should limit it to 2 years . After that player have to leave gc .
In theory yes but Riot will never do that since there'd be huge community uproar.
Totally_not_a_altt [#25]It's just good casting, production and marketing . Valorant feels more intense when things are on line . Like bigger price , knockout match of team you like etc etc . They just have to up the rewards , and wait for some stories to develop and it will be popular in no time .
TL:DR (conclusion ish) You make good points about adding rewards and all that and storylines+a bunch of other stuff I go on about. However. GC does have its very unique charm that T2 cannot compare with just because of the format, in the end its all about entertainment. Suzu clears.
I'd say its because of totally new faces, a bunch of T2 are indeed up incoming, but its not as unpredictable, its not as easy to shift places in T2.
In GC it is literally just new faces, xipto, zeta 2 fan favorite teams tell me how many of these players did you know in 2023? Not that many, because you didn't know any of them at all probably. These are also more engaging orgs than like turtle troop. Its also not just a regional tournament we actually have a championship, T2 is stuck being a regional format forever.
Adding onto that, it just feels like GC T1, whoever wins is the best GC team, I feel like I'm watching the best that these players have to offer, in T2 its just T1 but watered down, GC is a whole different world. I am slandering T2 a bit, so just in case you think I actually hate T2, no, I still fw it.
T2 is a means to an end like cool I don't wanna watch a T2 vs T2 can I just go back to watch T1 please Its litteraly T2 but better, but if i'm being real what's GC but better? Like at some point you gotta stop making these comparisons as if they're in the same line, GC is not part of the T4-T3-T2-T1 ladder its outside of it, at its own pace, and that's kinda the point.
It's also filling the gap after VCT like unless you just hate GC for some reason watching it isn't digging into VCT hours.
All of this is irrelevant compared to the fact that suzu just clears.
SUZU OWNS THE WORLD
GC is supposed to be a long term project. It’s about developing places for women and other marginalized genders to improve so that they can compete in T2/1 in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re >5 years off of any internal projections Riot did.
As for why would someone move, because they don’t want to sit on a team that doesn’t do anything. I imagine a lot of the women competing in GC dream of winning champs, and if an opportunity for one of them popped up to play on a T2 team with a shot at ascension, 100% of them would take it.
x_knowitall39_x [#19]you ALWAYS type so much. can I get bullet points
TLDR:
- Sarah is good enough for Tier 2.
- SR can't qualify for Challengers and play to get into Tier 2.
- GC players get a salary and play in a tournament which will make them more memorable.
- EMEA GC > NA GC for no. of legit orgs
- Going into Tier 2 means taking a risk starting from the bottom.
MurphyOW [#28]TL:DR (conclusion ish) You make good points about adding rewards and all that and storylines+a bunch of other stuff I go on about. However. GC does have its very unique charm that T2 cannot compare with just because of the format, in the end its all about entertainment. Suzu clears.
I'd say its because of totally new faces, a bunch of T2 are indeed up incoming, but its not as unpredictable, its not as easy to shift places in T2.
In GC it is literally just new faces, xipto, zeta 2 fan favorite teams tell me how many of these players did you know in 2023? Not that many, because you didn't know any of them at all probably. These are also more engaging orgs than like turtle troop. Its also not just a regional tournament we actually have a championship, T2 is stuck being a regional format forever.
Adding onto that, it just feels like GC T1, whoever wins is the best GC team, I feel like I'm watching the best that these players have to offer, in T2 its just T1 but watered down, GC is a whole different world. I am slandering T2 a bit, so just in case you think I actually hate T2, no, I still fw it.
T2 is a means to an end like cool I don't wanna watch a T2 vs T2 can I just go back to watch T1 please Its litteraly T2 but better, but if i'm being real what's GC but better? Like at some point you gotta stop making these comparisons as if they're in the same line, GC is not part of the T4-T3-T2-T1 ladder its outside of it, at its own pace, and that's kinda the point.
It's also filling the gap after VCT like unless you just hate GC for some reason watching it isn't digging into VCT hours.
All of this is irrelevant compared to the fact that suzu just clears.
SUZU OWNS THE WORLD
bro said tldr and proceeded to type 500 words
Tooker [#29]GC is supposed to be a long term project. It’s about developing places for women and other marginalized genders to improve so that they can compete in T2/1 in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re >5 years off of any internal projections Riot did.
As for why would someone move, because they don’t want to sit on a team that doesn’t do anything. I imagine a lot of the women competing in GC dream of winning champs, and if an opportunity for one of them popped up to play on a T2 team with a shot at ascension, 100% of them would take it.
the players themselves will take it, the passionate ones atleast. but the orgs wont let them. it means bad business for them. its either be in the org or your dream of playing a higher level of valo
kitsuneHP [#31]bro said tldr and proceeded to type 500 words
dunno why you're surprised this is my whole thing
GC gameplay quality needs to rise to higher levels before they begin integration. There has been CLEAR improvements from both the best GC teams and lower tier GC teams over the last 3 years. Once the top GC teams are at the point where they can compete with better tier 2 teams, then Riot can start integrating GC qualifications into the primary circuit - that way they aren't incentivising GC players to join the main circuit, they're FORCING them to play in the main circuit once they reach the highest tiers of GC.
right now, the teams aren't ready, we still regularly see GC teams getting rolled in challengers quals, so they still need time. need those crackhead girls who started playing when they were 10 yo to grow up so that GC can reach the same level as the main circuit.
TLDR: GC is a long term project, needs more time!
MurphyOW [#33]dunno why you're surprised this is my whole thing
been a while since i was active here
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