And it’s all because ONE TIME someone faked being non-binary to compete in the league it automatically discredits EVERY SINGLE non binary person from competing. How moronic do you have to be to classify an entire group of marginalized people based off of one’s shitty actions. Not to mention there is legitimately zero biological advantage in gaming. If there was why are trans people in Iron sometimes and women in radiant like just say ur transphobic and misogynistic!
11
GC Discourse on VLR is so braindead
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bobwoblob [#5]"Not to mention there is legitimately zero biological advantage in gaming. If there was why are trans people in Iron sometimes and women in radiant"
By your logic, men don't have a biological strength advantage because some women are stronger than some men lmao.
youre probably a very nice person irl i can tell!
ct_fd_str [#4]'zero biological advantage in gaming'
not sure about that one
name some? or maybe read studies.
bobwoblob [#5]"Not to mention there is legitimately zero biological advantage in gaming. If there was why are trans people in Iron sometimes and women in radiant"
By your logic, men don't have a biological strength advantage because some women are stronger than some men lmao.
correlation isnt causation. read some studies cos its so clear you dont know anything ab GC and dont care so stop talking about it lmao.
kingop3n [#8]correlation isnt causation. read some studies cos its so clear you dont know anything ab GC and dont care so stop talking about it lmao.
uh.... yea..... buddy is wrong, GC tier 5, Men on average : DIamond, Woman on average : Bronze, check the facts
VB37 [#9]uh.... yea..... buddy is wrong, GC tier 5, Men on average : DIamond, Woman on average : Bronze, check the facts
show me ur source right now, or are you just cherry picking? Anyone can be any rank dickhead it matters more about ur peripherals than anything else
ct_fd_str [#4]'zero biological advantage in gaming'
not sure about that one
i beg of you to show me one study, one singular one.
snowconedeity [#11]show me ur source right now, or are you just cherry picking? Anyone can be any rank dickhead it matters more about ur peripherals than anything else
Yea wait here's another statistic from riot, woman average placement : 9th, men average placement : 5th. damn looks like I'm just right
VB37 [#13]Yea wait here's another statistic from riot, woman average placement : 9th, men average placement : 5th. damn looks like I'm just right
You can say anything is a statistic from riot, like here: VB37 Has statistically been ratiod by women 100% of the time, riot said it! i swear!
snowconedeity [#11]show me ur source right now, or are you just cherry picking? Anyone can be any rank dickhead it matters more about ur peripherals than anything else
it matters more about ur peripherals than anything else
this is just stupid.
snowconedeity [#12]i beg of you to show me one study, one singular one.
Halpern, D. F. and their book "Sex Differences in Cognitive Abilities,"
One major point she concludes is that men have greater spatial awareness, this is obviously very important in fps games
just because some trans women are better than most most doesn't mean women on average are better than men.
Biological differences like reaction times or spatial awareness are inherent differences seen across the men and women, these are not conditional guarantees however. Just because there are women in Radiant doesn’t mean there aren’t average differences at play.
Using your logic then since a very very small amount of biological women can deadlift 250kg, this would mean that there aren't any biological differences in strength between the genders.
Zerphyr1 [#16]Halpern, D. F. and their book "Sex Differences in Cognitive Abilities,"
One major point she concludes is that men have greater spatial awareness, this is obviously very important in fps games
Yes, because you're the authority on what is and isn't important in FPS games.
Furthermore, that was in relation to long-term memory, not short-term memory--which is absolutely useless in an actual match.
Additionally, it was only in some complex visual-spatial tasks--not all of them. And among those tasks, not all of them would equally translate to an FPS (and whether they would translate to valorant specifically is another question)
snowconedeity [#12]i beg of you to show me one study, one singular one.
i beg of you show me a single person that was born female that's good enough for t1, one singular one.
LouBag [#21]i beg of you show me a single person that was born female that's good enough for t1, one singular one.
I beg of you to show me a single person on North Sentinel Island that has a PhD
snowconedeity [#14]You can say anything is a statistic from riot, like here: VB37 Has statistically been ratiod by women 100% of the time, riot said it! i swear!
ur getting baited by a troglodyte i would recommend not responding
Zerphyr1 [#18]just because some trans women are better than most most doesn't mean women on average are better than men.
Biological differences like reaction times or spatial awareness are inherent differences seen across the men and women, these are not conditional guarantees however. Just because there are women in Radiant doesn’t mean there aren’t average differences at play.
Using your logic then since a very very small amount of biological women can deadlift 250kg, this would mean that there aren't any biological differences in strength between the genders.
You're misquoting a study that concludes nothing of the sort
Nachtel [#22]I beg of you to show me a single person on North Sentinel Island that has a PhD
not one female in cs
not one female in starcraft
not one female in valorant
basically, not a single female since the beginning of time has been good enough for t1 in an elite esport.
but i guess its just because no good female has ever tried. am I rite ;)
LouBag [#25]not one female in cs
not one female in starcraft
not one female in valorantbasically, not a single female since the beginning of time has been good enough for t1 in an elite esport.
but i guess its just because no good female has ever tried. am I rite ;)
What is the average number of females in gaming?
Nachtel [#26]What is the average number of females in gaming?
like i said
your argument is
"No good female has ever tried"
Nachtel [#31]How many of them play Video Games, specifically?
millions of female video game players over the last 20 years
LouBag [#32]millions of female video game players over the last 20 years
Of those, how many of them play PC games specifically?
Nachtel [#33]Of those, how many of them play PC games specifically?
what's your argument?
is it
"there are females good enough but they have never tried"
sort of like.
i said
in the first post
LouBag [#34]what's your argument?
is it
"there are females good enough but they have never tried"
sort of like.
i said
in the first post
Answer the question.
Nachtel [#35]Answer the question.
i dont know the exact number.
i have just watched epsorts for 20 years and i know i have never seen a female good enough for t1.
i dont think females are "Lazy" and only the "Unskilled ones" are trying.
so that leads me to believe that there is a difference between men and woman when it comes to the ultra top levels of esports.
much like there is a difference between men and woman in the ultra high levels of REAL sports.
LouBag [#36]i dont know the exact number.
i have just watched epsorts for 20 years and i know i have never seen a female good enough for t1.
i dont think females are "Lazy" and only the "Unskilled ones" are trying.
so that leads me to believe that there is a difference between men and woman when it comes to the ultra top levels of esports.
much like there is a difference between men and woman in the ultra high levels of REAL sports.
Are you equally as good at league of legends as you are at valorant?
Nachtel [#37]Are you equally as good at league of legends as you are at valorant?
no, but i have been paid to play 2 different esports in my career.
i have played alongside woman for YEARS
i have trained with them
i know their work ethic is as good or better, but on average they seem to cap out lower than men do.
i am not saying its impossible for woman to be in t1 i am just saying men have a slight advantage, and that advantage means ALOT, when you get to the top of any esport.
Nachtel [#26]What is the average number of females in gaming?
less trans people in gaming than females btw
LouBag [#38]no, but i have been paid to play 2 different esports in my career.
i have played alongside woman for YEARS
i have trained with them
i know their work ethic is as good or better, but on average they seem to cap out lower than men do.
i am not saying its impossible for woman to be in t1 i am just saying men have a slight advantage, and that advantage means ALOT, when you get to the top of any esport.
The first line is irrelevant.
If skills don't always translate over, how does it in any way make sense to argue that because women haven't succeeded in t1 in other games, they won't succeed in t1 in a new game--which requires a different skillset--that has been out for only 4 years?
Nachtel [#24]You're misquoting a study that concludes nothing of the sort
A review by Emanuele Coluccia called Gender differences in spatial orientation: A review
Reviews many differences cognitive studies between male and females. In this they explain the differences in spatial abilities such as mental rotation tasks and spatial orientation which are both relevant to fps games. This doesn’t include the differences in reaction times.
Nachtel [#40]The first line is irrelevant.
If skills don't always translate over, how does it in any way make sense to argue that because women haven't succeeded in t1 in other games, they won't succeed in t1 in a new game--which requires a different skillset--that has been out for only 4 years?
You can believe what you would like.
keep the hope alive.
maybe one day soon we will have a female pro.
I truly hope so.
I just dont like the connotation that shits on all the woman who came before.
"They were not the right woman for the job"
"they didn't train hard enough"
"You only had 100,000 woman to choose from and none where t1 material"
LouBag [#44]You can believe what you would like.
keep the hope alive.
maybe one day soon we will have a female pro.
I truly hope so.
I just dont like the connotation that shits on all the woman who came before.
"They were not the right woman for the job"
"they didn't train hard enough"
"You only had 100,000 woman to choose from and none where t1 material"
It's not my intent to shit on those who've already tried/are trying
To me it's a statistics game.
By a huge margin, more men play video games than women.
Of the minority of women that play video games, only a portion of them play PC games
Of the women that play PC games, only some of them play FPS games
Of the women that play PC FPS games, only some of them play Valorant
Of the women that play video games, happen to play PC games, happen to also play FPS games, and whose main game happens to be valorant, only some of them actually have the money required to buy the right equipment to train on to go pro.
Of the women that play video games, happen to play PC games, happen to also play FPS games, whose main game happens to be valorant, and who have the money required to buy the necessary peripherals, only a minority of them have the desire to even go Pro in the first place
and of the women who meet all the above criteria:
only a portion of them have the determination to keep going despite everyone around them telling them they are at a biological disadvantage and with absolutely no precedent to draw from that they will ever reach their dreams.
There are 48 teams in T1, with 5 spots for players each. That's 240 slots for players to make it to Tier1.
Assuming men outnumber women even 10000-1 after all the above filters, then that means for every one of those 240 spots in Tier1, there's a 0.01% chance that it will go to a woman (Ignoring the small possibility of blatant sexism from teams in player selection).
You tell me the probability of a woman making it into tier1 all those factors considered, and under the assumption that women=men in average potential (which I personally believe to be true)
Zerphyr1 [#43]How many biological women are in tier 1?
How many doctors are in North Sentinel island?
Zerphyr1 [#42]A review by Emanuele Coluccia called Gender differences in spatial orientation: A review
Reviews many differences cognitive studies between male and females. In this they explain the differences in spatial abilities such as mental rotation tasks and spatial orientation which are both relevant to fps games. This doesn’t include the differences in reaction times.
"While significant gender differences in spatial abilities consistently emerge, results concerning gender differences in spatial orientation skills are mixed"
"The influence of biological and socio/cultural factors is discussed as well as the hypothesis that gender differences are due to different strategies used to solve orientation tasks. The role of personality factors and the influence of spatial anxiety in orientation performance are also discussed."
From that exact same study btw
ct_fd_str [#4]'zero biological advantage in gaming'
not sure about that one
Hou Yifan peaked 2686 official FIDE rating in classical chess, making her a top 100 player in the world, and in the top 0.5% among Grandmasters
She also peaked 2704 official FIDE rating in blitz chess (5 minute games)
She was the 55th best player in the world.
that was 92 elo away from Fabiano Caruana, who was the US challenger to Magnus Carlsen for World Champion in 2018 and the #2 player in the world at that time--whom she also beat in an official game in 2017 https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1870992
smthlikeyou11 [#45]"theres been one" no, theres been more than one
im not gonna argue if theres a bio advanrage or not but the reason people claim non binary is because gc seen is so ass compared to t2
Isn't it more of a cultural advantage,
- women have a smaller pool of commited high level players since gaming is (even these days) thought of as a boy thing
whats funny is that its always men crying about it when it doesnt affect them. acting like they care about women when majority dont and wont care about it.
Cause you care so much yet you shit on women saying they cant be as good. Like you dont even get the point of GC, just look up "Geguri" s story from overwatch. Was a top tier player. Go read what happened when she started winning and how people accused her of cheating. then struggled to find a team cause men didnt want women in their team. Or just go read the long mel tweet that she wrote about all this, you will understand why it exists.
And if it bothers you,, just stop whinning about it and ignore it? it does not affect you
LouBag [#25]not one female in cs
not one female in starcraft
not one female in valorantbasically, not a single female since the beginning of time has been good enough for t1 in an elite esport.
but i guess its just because no good female has ever tried. am I rite ;)
Chess
Nachtel [#48]"While significant gender differences in spatial abilities consistently emerge, results concerning gender differences in spatial orientation skills are mixed"
"The influence of biological and socio/cultural factors is discussed as well as the hypothesis that gender differences are due to different strategies used to solve orientation tasks. The role of personality factors and the influence of spatial anxiety in orientation performance are also discussed."
From that exact same study btw
Even if there are personality differences that would slightly change how to solve orientation this would still mean men are greater in spatial abilities. Also there is no way to determine if it's cultural/personal factors at play here or if its biological but my assumption is biological. Also they clearly state there are significant differences and the only reason they say mixed is because 1 out of 4 studies found little differences whilst the others found significant or clear differences.
Zerphyr1 [#54]Even if there are personality differences that would slightly change how to solve orientation this would still mean men are greater in spatial abilities. Also there is no way to determine if it's cultural/personal factors at play here or if its biological but my assumption is biological. Also they clearly state there are significant differences and the only reason they say mixed is because 1 out of 4 studies found little differences whilst the others found significant or clear differences.
are you going to ignore the socio-cultural differences?
The whole paper is based on a hypothesis of different strategies for task-solving and which genders trend toward which cognitive strategies, which the author admits can be influenced by social and cultural factors
K4ziuHa [#51]Isn't it more of a cultural advantage,
- women have a smaller pool of commited high level players since gaming is (even these days) thought of as a boy thing
ya im basically saying the reasons why ppl identify as nonbinary to play in gc isnt beacuse gc is bad cuz of genetics diff its because gc is bad because theyre just genuinely bad
snowconedeity [#14]You can say anything is a statistic from riot, like here: VB37 Has statistically been ratiod by women 100% of the time, riot said it! i swear!
Statistically your right I'm wrong , search it up lil bro
abi2abaka [#52]whats funny is that its always men crying about it when it doesnt affect them. acting like they care about women when majority dont and wont care about it.
Cause you care so much yet you shit on women saying they cant be as good. Like you dont even get the point of GC, just look up "Geguri" s story from overwatch. Was a top tier player. Go read what happened when she started winning and how people accused her of cheating. then struggled to find a team cause men didnt want women in their team. Or just go read the long mel tweet that she wrote about all this, you will understand why it exists.
And if it bothers you,, just stop whinning about it and ignore it? it does not affect you
- I’m a trans woman, and women can definitely be as good as men (i didn’t mean to make this post as a we shouldn’t call out the transphobia and misogyny in the scene and just stop), and I 100% agree with what meL said. I’m unfamiliar with Geguri but I also recall Rebels Gaming was Co-ed last year and found some success (but ultimately fell short and was blamed on the woman by many fans)
snowconedeity [#59]
- I’m a trans woman, and women can definitely be as good as men (i didn’t mean to make this post as a we shouldn’t call out the transphobia and misogyny in the scene and just stop), and I 100% agree with what meL said. I’m unfamiliar with Geguri but I also recall Rebels Gaming was Co-ed last year and found some success (but ultimately fell short and was blamed on the woman by many fans)
Additionally just look at Vania--she was owning Benjyfishy and frying against all the coed teams (some of which had 3 VCT players on them) during the latest Off-season tournament with G2
I mean, she definitely mogged this A1mly guy
https://www.vlr.gg/413193/g2-gozen-vs-nasr-ignite-vct-off-season-spotlight-series-2024-uf
Nachtel [#55]are you going to ignore the socio-cultural differences?
The whole paper is based on a hypothesis of different strategies for task-solving and which genders trend toward which cognitive strategies, which the author admits can be influenced by social and cultural factors
Yes, I'm just stating that on a neutral and inherent level there are biological differences, I never claimed that woman cannot transcend these disadvantages. All I'm stating is that there are biological differences, and obviously this isn't the biggest determinant of the disadvantages that woman face in esports since there are cultural and historical material conditions
LouBag [#25]not one female in cs
not one female in starcraft
not one female in valorantbasically, not a single female since the beginning of time has been good enough for t1 in an elite esport.
but i guess its just because no good female has ever tried. am I rite ;)
I cannot emphasize enough how i laughed when i read this post, cant believe people actually say these things.
"Not to mention there is legitimately zero biological advantage in gaming"
This is objectively wrong, and quite frankly a modern American concept.
The average male response time is twenty three milliseconds faster than your average woman. This is a biological advantage in things such as sports, overall hand-eye coordination and general emergency response moments.
The science is pretty clear on this. Males are better at aiming at targets both near and far while also having much better spatial awareness. There are structural differences in the brain that likely account for this.
There have been several unbiased studies from PubMed and other sources that prove what I'm saying. Men have an advantage in gaming just like they have advantages in physical sports.
And no, I'm not saying that makes someone a better person. And no, I'm not saying I'm better than most women at video games. With time and effort there are women who can be excellent at video games. That's obvious. But if we're speaking about the highest level of gaming, there's a reason it's all guys. It's scientific and was widely accepted until 'Americanism' started spreading lies.
Zerphyr1 [#61]Yes, I'm just stating that on a neutral and inherent level there are biological differences, I never claimed that woman cannot transcend these disadvantages. All I'm stating is that there are biological differences, and obviously this isn't the biggest determinant of the disadvantages that woman face in esports since there are cultural and historical material conditions
The paper you cited does not definitively prove any neural differences given all the other factors that could lead to a difference in cognitive strategy
Nachtel [#64]The paper you cited does not definitively prove any neural differences given all the other factors that could lead to a difference in cognitive strategy
Hormonal balance has been proven to affect differences in cognitive strategy to different tasks so this would be the biological factor if somehow you think genes or other biological differences don't play a role in cognitive strategy and this is assuming cognitive strategy is the only difference between the genders in spatial tasks.
Zerphyr1 [#65]Hormonal balance has been proven to affect differences in cognitive strategy to different tasks so this would be the biological factor if somehow you think genes or other biological differences don't play a role in cognitive strategy and this is assuming cognitive strategy is the only difference between the genders in spatial tasks.
Cite the studies please.
Also why are you talking about genetics? women don't have different genes than men dumbass; they're not a different species
As for hormonal balance, there's enough trans women on estrogen that can prove how irrelevant it is in multiple video games
Nachtel [#66]Cite the studies please.
Also why are you talking about genetics? women don't have different genes than men dumbass; they're not a different species
As for hormonal balance, there's enough trans women on estrogen that can prove how irrelevant it is in multiple video games
First of all women do have different genes and some genes are found more commonly in men such as different crime genes: There are many studies on this for example here is one: https://www.rsb.org.uk/biologist-features/crime-genes.
so in-fact women do have different genes than men and your ignoring Y chromosomes which account for half of mens genes.
And here is how your hormones affect your cognitive ability: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6422548/
Zerphyr1 [#67]First of all women do have different genes and some genes are found more commonly in men such as different crime genes: There are many studies on this for example here is one: https://www.rsb.org.uk/biologist-features/crime-genes.
so in-fact women do have different genes than men and your ignoring Y chromosomes which account for half of mens genes.
And here is how your hormones affect your cognitive ability: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6422548/
No that does not mean women have different genes, it just means they don't receive anything from one half of their father's genes upon inception
Furthermore, that's completely irrelevant on the topic of gender differences, since the genes you receive from either both X chromosomes or your X and Y chromosomes both completely depend on the person, their parents, etc. which are factors completely separate from gender.
Nachtel [#19]Yes, because you're the authority on what is and isn't important in FPS games.
Furthermore, that was in relation to long-term memory, not short-term memory--which is absolutely useless in an actual match.
Additionally, it was only in some complex visual-spatial tasks--not all of them. And among those tasks, not all of them would equally translate to an FPS (and whether they would translate to valorant specifically is another question)
4 downvotes and not a single response, ironic lmfao
HenBabyH [#10]classic K4ziuHa lacking empathy
This guy is 13y, just imagine you ignoring a angry kid that u refused to give candy, and he will be easy to handle.
Nachtel [#46]It's not my intent to shit on those who've already tried/are trying
To me it's a statistics game.
By a huge margin, more men play video games than women.
Of the minority of women that play video games, only a portion of them play PC games
Of the women that play PC games, only some of them play FPS games
Of the women that play PC FPS games, only some of them play Valorant
Of the women that play video games, happen to play PC games, happen to also play FPS games, and whose main game happens to be valorant, only some of them actually have the money required to buy the right equipment to train on to go pro.
Of the women that play video games, happen to play PC games, happen to also play FPS games, whose main game happens to be valorant, and who have the money required to buy the necessary peripherals, only a minority of them have the desire to even go Pro in the first place
and of the women who meet all the above criteria:
only a portion of them have the determination to keep going despite everyone around them telling them they are at a biological disadvantage and with absolutely no precedent to draw from that they will ever reach their dreams.There are 48 teams in T1, with 5 spots for players each. That's 240 slots for players to make it to Tier1.
Assuming men outnumber women even 10000-1 after all the above filters, then that means for every one of those 240 spots in Tier1, there's a 0.01% chance that it will go to a woman (Ignoring the small possibility of blatant sexism from teams in player selection).
You tell me the probability of a woman making it into tier1 all those factors considered, and under the assumption that women=men in average potential (which I personally believe to be true)
instead of writing a book read this instead
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4129348/#:~:text=These%20cognitive%20attributes%20are%20different,abilities%20%5B2%2C3%5D
Nachtel [#64]The paper you cited does not definitively prove any neural differences given all the other factors that could lead to a difference in cognitive strategy
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different/
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2019.00128/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40296069
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390656/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999374/
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284542074_Gender_and_Gaming_A_Literature_Review
rtyu [#73]https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2019.00128/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40296069
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390656/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999374/
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284542074_Gender_and_Gaming_A_Literature_Review
Blud is NOT letting it slide😭😭
Poh1238 [#74]Blud is NOT letting it slide😭😭
i swear i see this same topic every day here i will just link these instead of arguing
Nachtel [#46]It's not my intent to shit on those who've already tried/are trying
To me it's a statistics game.
By a huge margin, more men play video games than women.
Of the minority of women that play video games, only a portion of them play PC games
Of the women that play PC games, only some of them play FPS games
Of the women that play PC FPS games, only some of them play Valorant
Of the women that play video games, happen to play PC games, happen to also play FPS games, and whose main game happens to be valorant, only some of them actually have the money required to buy the right equipment to train on to go pro.
Of the women that play video games, happen to play PC games, happen to also play FPS games, whose main game happens to be valorant, and who have the money required to buy the necessary peripherals, only a minority of them have the desire to even go Pro in the first place
and of the women who meet all the above criteria:
only a portion of them have the determination to keep going despite everyone around them telling them they are at a biological disadvantage and with absolutely no precedent to draw from that they will ever reach their dreams.There are 48 teams in T1, with 5 spots for players each. That's 240 slots for players to make it to Tier1.
Assuming men outnumber women even 10000-1 after all the above filters, then that means for every one of those 240 spots in Tier1, there's a 0.01% chance that it will go to a woman (Ignoring the small possibility of blatant sexism from teams in player selection).
You tell me the probability of a woman making it into tier1 all those factors considered, and under the assumption that women=men in average potential (which I personally believe to be true)
damn, you took this to heart holy shit, jit worte a novel and still said nothing 😭🙏
rtyu [#75]i swear i see this same topic every day here i will just link these instead of arguing
you're so real
rtyu [#75]i swear i see this same topic every day here i will just link these instead of arguing
Those guys will still go crazy after this tho😭
LouBag [#21]i beg of you show me a single person that was born female that's good enough for t1, one singular one.
vania as igl of a turkish speaking team
I’ve watched enough of Vania to know any “Biological” difference argument is horse shit.
The most impactful reason as to why we don’t have examples of T1 women yet is simply because the genre isn’t catered to girls and the competitive community is hostile; a smaller talent pool and less opportunities. How a player like Pancc nearly ascended speaks to this.
At the same time, why would you risk a secure spot on a GC roster when T2 is so unstable — even if you were undoubtably good enough for it? It’ll be another two years before we see the first woman in T1 and probably four years until we see a proper Co-ed roster with trophy aspirations.
I hope the spotlight off-season tournament becomes a staple considering how “normal” we consider all male teams in a medium totally unrestricted by categories of weight class and biological sex. I look forward to Valorant’s first Geguri.
rtyu [#71]instead of writing a book read this instead
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4129348/#:~:text=These%20cognitive%20attributes%20are%20different,abilities%20%5B2%2C3%5D
Read your own fucking article you imbecile. It only says females have disadvantages in cognitive tasks only during their period, but have identical cognitive ability while not in their period.
"Male cognitive functions were comparable to female preovulatory phase cognitive functions. However, females, during postovulatory phase of their cycle, may have advantages in executive tasks (Stroop test) and disadvantages in attentional tasks (VRT), as compared to males."
localkoolkid [#76]damn, you took this to heart holy shit, jit worte a novel and still said nothing 😭🙏
One day you'll learn how to read :)
Nachtel [#83]One day you'll learn how to read :)
read this goofy
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2019.00128/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40296069
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390656/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999374/
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284542074_Gender_and_Gaming_A_Literature_Review
rtyu [#73]https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2019.00128/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40296069
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390656/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999374/
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284542074_Gender_and_Gaming_A_Literature_Review
Big dawg shows nothing but sources, but bottom line men do have an inherent advantage in gaming will always be the majority even if some women make it to tier 1
snowconedeity [#12]i beg of you to show me one study, one singular one.
I'd say that faster reaction speed is a good biological advantage https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3198384/
localkoolkid [#84]read this goofy
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2019.00128/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40296069
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390656/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999374/
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284542074_Gender_and_Gaming_A_Literature_Review
Article 1: Don't have access
Article 2: "On this basis, we performed a correlation analysis of gender differences and age and found that gender differences in individual spatial ability increased as individuals grew older. Due to the complex interaction of other factors like individual differences, growth environment and experimental conditions, this finding may not apply to all meta-analyses, but the high correlation index represents and explains the development and growth trend in connection to gender differences in individual spatial ability."
Article 3: Don't have access
Article 4: This is a study on rats dipshit
Article 5: This is also a study on rats
Article 6: "The commonly reported pattern of decreasing RT mean and variability in childhood and adolescence, followed by an increase in mean and variability through adulthood and into old age, was confirmed. Greater intraindividual variability for females in SRT and CRT was observed in adults but not in children. Males had significantly faster mean SRT than did females across the life span, but there were no sex differences in mean CRT."
Article 7: "Reaction time
The ANOVA on RT with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=73.66, P<0.001, ηp2=0.725. A t-test for paired samples showed that the RTs were higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P≤0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. For the factor sex, there was no main effect of sex on RT: F(1, 28)=0.287, P=0.596, ηp2=0.01 and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.487, P=0.591, ηp2=0.02."
"Accuracy rate
The ANOVA on the accuracy rate with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=24.59, P<0.001, ηp2=0.468. A t-test for paired samples showed the accuracy rate to be higher for the angular disparity of 45° compared with 90°, 135° compared with 180°, 225° compared with 270°, and for the angular disparity of 270° compared with 315° (all P<0.001). All other consecutive comparisons did not show any significance. Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on the accuracy rate: F(1, 28)=0.114, P=0.738, ηp2=0.004, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=1.130, P=0.346, ηp2=0.039."
"The ANOVA for the number of fixations with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=80.71, P<0.001, ηp2=0.742. A t-test for paired samples showed the number of fixations to be higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P<0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on fixation numbers: F(1, 28)=0.048, P=0.829, ηp2=0.002, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.34, P=0.754, ηp2=0.012."
Read your own fucking articles dumbass
Amexdxyz [#20]Why do people care about that?
All gc players are tier3-tier4(except florescent)
i think mel is pretty good
rtyu [#72]https://stanmed.stanford.edu/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different/
"Which is not to say every man’s or woman’s brain looks the same. Our multitudinous genetic variations interact with some of our genes’ differential responsiveness to estrogens versus androgens. This complicated pinball game affects goings-on in at least some of the brain’s neural circuits and in whatever little piece of behavior each of these neural circuits manages."
"Bigger imaging studies and imaginative animal research now in the works promise to reveal much more about humanity’s inherent — although by no means uniform, and often not substantial — sex-associated cognitive differences and vulnerability to diseases.
Trying to assign exact percentages to the relative contributions of “culture” versus “biology” to the behavior of free-living human individuals in a complex social environment is tough at best. Halpern offers a succinct assessment: 'The role of culture is not zero. The role of biology is not zero.'"
There is no citation for this: "Many of these cognitive differences appear quite early in life. ‘You see sex differences in spatial-visualization ability in 2- and 3-month-old infants.’"
rtyu [#73]https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2019.00128/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40296069
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390656/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999374/
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284542074_Gender_and_Gaming_A_Literature_Review
You illiterate dumbfuck, you're not even reading your own sources.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5999374/
"Reaction time
The ANOVA on RT with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=73.66, P<0.001, ηp2=0.725. A t-test for paired samples showed that the RTs were higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P≤0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. For the factor sex, there was no main effect of sex on RT: F(1, 28)=0.287, P=0.596, ηp2=0.01 and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.487, P=0.591, ηp2=0.02.
Accuracy rate
The ANOVA on the accuracy rate with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=24.59, P<0.001, ηp2=0.468. A t-test for paired samples showed the accuracy rate to be higher for the angular disparity of 45° compared with 90°, 135° compared with 180°, 225° compared with 270°, and for the angular disparity of 270° compared with 315° (all P<0.001). All other consecutive comparisons did not show any significance. Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on the accuracy rate: F(1, 28)=0.114, P=0.738, ηp2=0.004, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=1.130, P=0.346, ηp2=0.039.
Eye-tracking data
Fixation numbers
The ANOVA for the number of fixations with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=80.71, P<0.001, ηp2=0.742. A t-test for paired samples showed the number of fixations to be higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P<0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on fixation numbers: F(1, 28)=0.048, P=0.829, ηp2=0.002, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.34, P=0.754, ηp2=0.012."
Also 2 of the sources you cite are studies on rats.
Istg these fucking dropouts googling "gender differences in gaming" and copy pasting anything they see, then pretending to be academics drives me crazy
Nachtel [#92]You illiterate dumbfuck, you're not even reading your own sources.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5999374/
"Reaction time
The ANOVA on RT with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=73.66, P<0.001, ηp2=0.725. A t-test for paired samples showed that the RTs were higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P≤0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. For the factor sex, there was no main effect of sex on RT: F(1, 28)=0.287, P=0.596, ηp2=0.01 and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.487, P=0.591, ηp2=0.02.Accuracy rate
The ANOVA on the accuracy rate with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=24.59, P<0.001, ηp2=0.468. A t-test for paired samples showed the accuracy rate to be higher for the angular disparity of 45° compared with 90°, 135° compared with 180°, 225° compared with 270°, and for the angular disparity of 270° compared with 315° (all P<0.001). All other consecutive comparisons did not show any significance. Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on the accuracy rate: F(1, 28)=0.114, P=0.738, ηp2=0.004, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=1.130, P=0.346, ηp2=0.039.Eye-tracking data
Fixation numbers
The ANOVA for the number of fixations with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=80.71, P<0.001, ηp2=0.742. A t-test for paired samples showed the number of fixations to be higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P<0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on fixation numbers: F(1, 28)=0.048, P=0.829, ηp2=0.002, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.34, P=0.754, ηp2=0.012."Also 2 of the sources you cite are studies on rats.
Istg these fucking dropouts googling "gender differences in gaming" and copy pasting anything they see, then pretending to be academics drives me crazy
look at urself bro ur actually fuming over this ,u read over all of them and picked one study out of the like 10 i linked and pointed out that there wasnt a difference in 1 specific task when theres like 5 other studies there (DONE ON HUMANS) where males performed better in spatial and problem solving related tasks,pls stop coping lol
rtyu [#93]look at urself bro ur actually fuming over this ,u read over all of them and picked one study out of the like 10 i linked and pointed out that there wasnt a difference in 1 specific task when theres like 5 other studies there (DONE ON HUMANS) where males performed better in spatial and problem solving related tasks,pls stop coping lol
The reason it drives me crazy is because I'm seeing troglodytes like you pretending to care about science when all you're doing is googling for anything that will reinforce your bias and copy-pasting it without even reading through it because you're too stupid to actually understand it
Ultia [#81]I’ve watched enough of Vania to know any “Biological” difference argument is horse shit.
The most impactful reason as to why we don’t have examples of T1 women yet is simply because the genre isn’t catered to girls and the competitive community is hostile; a smaller talent pool and less opportunities. How a player like Pancc nearly ascended speaks to this.
At the same time, why would you risk a secure spot on a GC roster when T2 is so unstable — even if you were undoubtably good enough for it? It’ll be another two years before we see the first woman in T1 and probably four years until we see a proper Co-ed roster with trophy aspirations.
I hope the spotlight off-season tournament becomes a staple considering how “normal” we consider all male teams in a medium totally unrestricted by categories of weight class and biological sex. I look forward to Valorant’s first Geguri.
yah true af bro
ive always thought about how if i was a woman i wouldnt take valorant seriously because of how toxic it can be in ranked
Nachtel [#94]The reason it drives me crazy is because I'm seeing troglodytes like you pretending to care about science when all you're doing is googling for anything that will reinforce your bias and copy-pasting it without even reading through it because you're too stupid to actually understand it
ur literally in denial and cognitive dissonance, I know u read all of them cause u mention about studies done on rats which is actually a pretty common way to compare to humans in tests cause they are very similar to humans in many ways,and u still just refuse to mention all the other studies that came to the result that men do have superior spatial and problem solving abilities,pls calm down and stop deflecting its not that deep bro
rtyu [#96]ur literally in denial and cognitive dissonance, I know u read all of them cause u mention about studies done on rats which is actually a pretty common way to compare to humans in tests cause they are very similar to humans in many ways,and u still just refuse to mention all the other studies that came to the result that men do have superior spatial and problem solving abilities,pls calm down and stop deflecting its not that deep bro
No, you're genuinely braindead if you think rats are comparable to humans. Studies on rats only lead us to hypotheses on how similar humans can be, never conclusive results.
Also, if your idea of winning an argument is spamming as many articles (that you didn't read) as you want until you reach a point where nobody will bother actually reading them, then sure you can pretend you're smart
Nachtel [#97]No, you're genuinely braindead if you think rats are comparable to humans. Studies on rats only lead us to hypotheses on how similar humans can be, never conclusive results.
Also, if your idea of winning an argument is spamming as many articles (that you didn't read) as you want until you reach a point where nobody will bother actually reading them, then sure you can pretend you're smart
And those hypotheses have been confirmed by the studies i just linked to u lol,but u still refuse to talk about that,its actually sad u are genuinely this pissed off about arguing on vlr,i hope u dont take this too serious,i know u were so horny to prove me wrong u def read trough all of them and that 1 singular study i didnt even read fully is ur only argument against all the others lol,dont start saying ur "too bothered" to read them all now lol
rtyu [#98]And those hypotheses have been confirmed by the studies i just linked to u lol,but u still refuse to talk about that,its actually sad u are genuinely this pissed off about arguing on vlr,i hope u dont take this too serious,i know u were so horny to prove me wrong u def read trough all of them and that 1 singular study i didnt even read fully is ur only argument against all the others lol,dont start saying ur "too bothered" to read them all now lol
Care to actually cite something from one of those articles that backs that point up, rather than pretending it's in there somewhere, buddy?
Nachtel [#99]Care to actually cite something from one of those articles that backs that point up, rather than pretending it's in there somewhere, buddy?
yes absolutely even tho i know u atleast opened all of them with how mad u are about this subject but lets pretend u just didnt bother to look at the studies that completely contradict ur weak argument
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
(right there as soon as u open it)
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different/
"Men, on average, can more easily juggle items in working memory. They have superior visuospatial skills: They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space, at correctly determining angles from the horizontal, at tracking moving objects and at aiming projectiles."
ur pathetic trying to sound so educated and smart but still too tied to ur emotions to admit when ur wrong and ur saying i pretend to be some intellectual for linking studies
rtyu [#100]yes absolutely even tho i know u atleast opened all of them with how mad u are about this subject but lets pretend u just didnt bother to look at the studies that completely contradict ur weak argument
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022096500925943
(right there as soon as u open it)https://stanmed.stanford.edu/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different/
"Men, on average, can more easily juggle items in working memory. They have superior visuospatial skills: They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space, at correctly determining angles from the horizontal, at tracking moving objects and at aiming projectiles."ur pathetic trying to sound so educated and smart but still too tied to ur emotions to admit when ur wrong and ur saying i pretend to be some intellectual for linking studies
You're gonna have to give me a quote on the first one: I don't have access to it
As for the second:
"Trying to assign exact percentages to the relative contributions of “culture” versus “biology” to the behavior of free-living human individuals in a complex social environment is tough at best. Halpern offers a succinct assessment: 'The role of culture is not zero. The role of biology is not zero.'"
The author admits a degree of error that can be attributed to socio-cultural factors, and not innate biology on the nature of their findings. There's no absolute certainty
Too much ego to admit I'm wrong? I'm responding to everything you're saying in a timely fashion, please stop projecting your insecurities. I can see why you insist that rats are identical to humans if you're basing it off of what you see in the mirror every day
Nachtel [#88]Article 1: Don't have access
Article 2: "On this basis, we performed a correlation analysis of gender differences and age and found that gender differences in individual spatial ability increased as individuals grew older. Due to the complex interaction of other factors like individual differences, growth environment and experimental conditions, this finding may not apply to all meta-analyses, but the high correlation index represents and explains the development and growth trend in connection to gender differences in individual spatial ability."
Article 3: Don't have access
Article 4: This is a study on rats dipshit
Article 5: This is also a study on rats
Article 6: "The commonly reported pattern of decreasing RT mean and variability in childhood and adolescence, followed by an increase in mean and variability through adulthood and into old age, was confirmed. Greater intraindividual variability for females in SRT and CRT was observed in adults but not in children. Males had significantly faster mean SRT than did females across the life span, but there were no sex differences in mean CRT."
Article 7: "Reaction time
The ANOVA on RT with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=73.66, P<0.001, ηp2=0.725. A t-test for paired samples showed that the RTs were higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P≤0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. For the factor sex, there was no main effect of sex on RT: F(1, 28)=0.287, P=0.596, ηp2=0.01 and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.487, P=0.591, ηp2=0.02."
"Accuracy rate
The ANOVA on the accuracy rate with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=24.59, P<0.001, ηp2=0.468. A t-test for paired samples showed the accuracy rate to be higher for the angular disparity of 45° compared with 90°, 135° compared with 180°, 225° compared with 270°, and for the angular disparity of 270° compared with 315° (all P<0.001). All other consecutive comparisons did not show any significance. Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on the accuracy rate: F(1, 28)=0.114, P=0.738, ηp2=0.004, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=1.130, P=0.346, ηp2=0.039."
"The ANOVA for the number of fixations with angular disparity as the within-participant factor and sex as the between-participant factor showed a main effect on angular disparity: F(7, 196)=80.71, P<0.001, ηp2=0.742. A t-test for paired samples showed the number of fixations to be higher on each consecutive angular disparity up to 180° (P<0.001) and lower on each consecutive angular disparity from 180° up to 315° (P<0.001). Because of multiple testing, Bonferroni correction was chosen and the significance standard was set to α=0.007. There was no main effect of sex on fixation numbers: F(1, 28)=0.048, P=0.829, ηp2=0.002, and no significant interaction between both factors: F(7, 196)=0.34, P=0.754, ηp2=0.012."
Read your own fucking articles dumbass
damn you actually read those, damn I just copied those and don't really care ngl, did not know you were pressed enough to read 10 articles over a VLR post about a video game but all the power to you I guess, may want to reconsider your time usage though tbh.
Nachtel [#101]You're gonna have to give me a quote on the first one: I don't have access to it
As for the second:
"Trying to assign exact percentages to the relative contributions of “culture” versus “biology” to the behavior of free-living human individuals in a complex social environment is tough at best. Halpern offers a succinct assessment: 'The role of culture is not zero. The role of biology is not zero.'"
The author admits a degree of error that can be attributed to socio-cultural factors, and not innate biology on the nature of their findings. There's no absolute certainty
Too much ego to admit I'm wrong? I'm responding to everything you're saying in a timely fashion, please stop projecting your insecurities. I can see why you insist that rats are identical to humans if you're basing it off of what you see in the mirror every day
I'll take a second to reply if you actually find a quote--i'm in a 10 mans
Nachtel [#101]You're gonna have to give me a quote on the first one: I don't have access to it
As for the second:
"Trying to assign exact percentages to the relative contributions of “culture” versus “biology” to the behavior of free-living human individuals in a complex social environment is tough at best. Halpern offers a succinct assessment: 'The role of culture is not zero. The role of biology is not zero.'"
The author admits a degree of error that can be attributed to socio-cultural factors, and not innate biology on the nature of their findings. There's no absolute certainty
Too much ego to admit I'm wrong? I'm responding to everything you're saying in a timely fashion, please stop projecting your insecurities. I can see why you insist that rats are identical to humans if you're basing it off of what you see in the mirror every day
lmaoo what is that weak ass roast u are actually a sad and emotional individual its so sad i can see from the way u type u really think u are somebody,no i dont have to give u anything more than i just did thats more than enough with all the other studies i have given u ,u are not proving me wrong im not in the position to counter argue against ur strawmans u are just nit picking very specific things about my overall point to make it seem less true even tho that quote u just linked doesnt even mean anything or contradict the results of the studies,u are just making urself seem dumber the more u type
Nachtel [#103]I'll take a second to reply if you actually find a quote--i'm in a 10 mans
yea take ur time coming up with a good strawman and a deflection isnt easy ur already coping to the max
rtyu [#104]lmaoo what is that weak ass roast u are actually a sad and emotional individual its so sad i can see from the way u type u really think u are somebody,no i dont have to give u anything more than i just did thats more than enough with all the other studies i have given u ,u are not proving me wrong im not in the position to counter argue against ur strawmans u are just nit picking very specific things about my overall point to make it seem less true even tho that quote u just linked doesnt even mean anything or contradict the results of the studies,u are just making urself seem dumber the more u type
So you don't have anything, got it :)
Nachtel [#106]So you don't have anything, got it :)
i dont need to talk to u just so u can spew some weak copes and try to keep the argument going even tho u clearly dont have much to back ur point with and u know it thats why ur so defensive and emotional about this.If u wanna take ur time to find something that contradicts me go for it but rn i know im right so i dont really see a reason to keep this pointless wannabe intellectual debate going,have a nice day.
rtyu [#107]i dont need to talk to u just so u can spew some weak copes and try to keep the argument going even tho u clearly dont have much to back ur point with and u know it thats why ur so defensive and emotional about this.If u wanna take ur time to find something that contradicts me go for it but rn i know im right so i dont really see a reason to keep this pointless wannabe intellectual debate going,have a nice day.
Very scientific of you!
Nachtel [#49]Hou Yifan peaked 2686 official FIDE rating in classical chess, making her a top 100 player in the world, and in the top 0.5% among Grandmasters
She also peaked 2704 official FIDE rating in blitz chess (5 minute games)
She was the 55th best player in the world.
that was 92 elo away from Fabiano Caruana, who was the US challenger to Magnus Carlsen for World Champion in 2018 and the #2 player in the world at that time--whom she also beat in an official game in 2017 https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1870992
acutally retarded for this
how tf are u comparing chess with a tac fps?
Nachtel [#108]Very scientific of you!
well im not trying to keep feeding ur need to reinforce ur opinion,me i would personally self reflect at this point and ask why am i so mad over this and struggling to prove this guy wrong and having to rely on weak nit picked strawman's to keep my argument alive trying to get me to give u some specific results from a study thats already summarized in the page i linked,but the fact ur still going kinda tells me u dont have that ability rn,go have fun in the 10 mans,
ct_fd_str [#109]acutally retarded for this
how tf are u comparing chess with a tac fps?
blud said gaming
ct_fd_str [#6]youre probably a very nice person irl i can tell!
At least nicer than a racist piece of shit like you
Saik8 [#112]At least nicer than a racist piece of shit like you
nah why u calling me racist
what did i do
Nachtel [#108]Very scientific of you!
You’re on the wrong platform for a debate.
Users here much prefer to use impressions to justify their beliefs and will stubbornly resort to belittling or dismissing you before admitting nuance. I sympathize with your frustration but you expect too much from clowns.
iluckilyVA [#69]4 downvotes and not a single response, ironic lmfao
"Yes, because you're the authority on what is and isn't important in FPS games."
No one's going to respond to a nonsensical statement like this.
Ultia [#81]I’ve watched enough of Vania to know any “Biological” difference argument is horse shit.
The most impactful reason as to why we don’t have examples of T1 women yet is simply because the genre isn’t catered to girls and the competitive community is hostile; a smaller talent pool and less opportunities. How a player like Pancc nearly ascended speaks to this.
At the same time, why would you risk a secure spot on a GC roster when T2 is so unstable — even if you were undoubtably good enough for it? It’ll be another two years before we see the first woman in T1 and probably four years until we see a proper Co-ed roster with trophy aspirations.
I hope the spotlight off-season tournament becomes a staple considering how “normal” we consider all male teams in a medium totally unrestricted by categories of weight class and biological sex. I look forward to Valorant’s first Geguri.
"The most impactful reason as to why we don’t have examples of T1 women yet is simply because the genre isn’t catered to girls and the competitive community is hostile"
Let's be fair, this is a subjective take. The community is 'hostile' to EVERYONE is we're talking about toxicity. I don't care what gender you are, you getting fucking HARRASSED in fps games. What we're talking about isn't an environmental issue. If you're looking at VALORANT just from eye test alone you can see the level of play is lower in gc. That can't be due to hostility.
charleser [#117]"The most impactful reason as to why we don’t have examples of T1 women yet is simply because the genre isn’t catered to girls and the competitive community is hostile"
Let's be fair, this is a subjective take. The community is 'hostile' to EVERYONE is we're talking about toxicity. I don't care what gender you are, you getting fucking HARRASSED in fps games. What we're talking about isn't an environmental issue. If you're looking at VALORANT just from eye test alone you can see the level of play is lower in gc. That can't be due to hostility.
The community is hostile to everyone yes — but to varying degrees and expression. I might receive shit for a whiff but I won’t have teammates throw games for simply talking in voice chat nor will I receive insults about my likely future performance because of my sex. It’s also less likely that teams will accuse me of cheating or avoid me in their roster builds because I won’t be an “unknown” variable to the otherwise “all-male” dynamic.
Women are often heckled or badgered over nothing and the occasional asshole just thinks being sexist is funny. I’ve also heard first hand accounts of friends receiving threats of rape and stalking from tilted players. Even then, Valorant has the largest Female : Male player distribution in the genre, at nearly 3-4x that of CS. A lot of them are new and it takes time to build a talent pool while a lot of male players have prior experience in FPS titles — this is a uniquely environmental problem.
My point isn’t that toxicity makes women worse players than men. It’s that it wholly turns away many casual female players from investing in the time and effort to improve and compete, resulting in a stunted talent pool. As a result, the pool of talent for men is so much larger even if the fraction of eligible talent is the same.
Simply observing that the level of play in GC is lower doesn’t actually help you in drawing any conclusions. It’s merely an observation.
Ultia [#115]You’re on the wrong platform for a debate.
Users here much prefer to use impressions to justify their beliefs and will stubbornly resort to belittling or dismissing you before admitting nuance. I sympathize with your frustration but you expect too much from clowns.
So long as I can get idiots who pretend to have science backing up their prejudices to admit they're full of shit I am happy :)
charleser [#116]"Yes, because you're the authority on what is and isn't important in FPS games."
No one's going to respond to a nonsensical statement like this.
maybe respond to the 2nd paragraph where I disprove the "evidence" from the book he's quoting? LMAO
Nachtel [#60]Additionally just look at Vania--she was owning Benjyfishy and frying against all the coed teams (some of which had 3 VCT players on them) during the latest Off-season tournament with G2
I mean, she definitely mogged this A1mly guy
https://www.vlr.gg/413193/g2-gozen-vs-nasr-ignite-vct-off-season-spotlight-series-2024-uf
there is 1 GC player in the top 20 of that tournament lmao
goatman123 [#121]there is 1 GC player in the top 20 of that tournament lmao
there's 2 and they're both above benjyfishy and valyn
Nachtel [#68]No that does not mean women have different genes, it just means they don't receive anything from one half of their father's genes upon inception
Furthermore, that's completely irrelevant on the topic of gender differences, since the genes you receive from either both X chromosomes or your X and Y chromosomes both completely depend on the person, their parents, etc. which are factors completely separate from gender.
Your lack of biological understanding scares me.
Firstly you claim that X and Y chromosomes depend on the person, parents which are factors seperate from gender when X and Y chromosomes literally determines your sex, I'm assuming you meant sex and not gender here and if u did in-fact mean gender then this would be irrelevant.
I have no idea how you believe that women and men have the same genes when men have half the X chromosomes that women do. Also men have Y chromosomes which includes crucial genes that give them more testosterone which is only found in the Y chromosome.
Genes don't just determine your biological appearence but also your testosterone level through genes such as SRY, and things to do with your personality, also these genes are half from father and half from mother but some genes such as crime linked genes are not the dominant gene meaning that the child would need this crime gene basically twice for the gene to have an affect and be present which does not necessarily need to be present in either the father or mother.
Nachtel [#49]Hou Yifan peaked 2686 official FIDE rating in classical chess, making her a top 100 player in the world, and in the top 0.5% among Grandmasters
She also peaked 2704 official FIDE rating in blitz chess (5 minute games)
She was the 55th best player in the world.
that was 92 elo away from Fabiano Caruana, who was the US challenger to Magnus Carlsen for World Champion in 2018 and the #2 player in the world at that time--whom she also beat in an official game in 2017 https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1870992
Kind of nonsensical to compare a fast paced reaction game like valorant to a methodical strategy oriented game thats more focused around memorization and algorithms like chess
Ultia [#118]The community is hostile to everyone yes — but to varying degrees and expression. I might receive shit for a whiff but I won’t have teammates throw games for simply talking in voice chat nor will I receive insults about my likely future performance because of my sex. It’s also less likely that teams will accuse me of cheating or avoid me in their roster builds because I won’t be an “unknown” variable to the otherwise “all-male” dynamic.
Women are often heckled or badgered over nothing and the occasional asshole just thinks being sexist is funny. I’ve also heard first hand accounts of friends receiving threats of rape and stalking from tilted players. Even then, Valorant has the largest Female : Male player distribution in the genre, at nearly 3-4x that of CS. A lot of them are new and it takes time to build a talent pool while a lot of male players have prior experience in FPS titles — this is a uniquely environmental problem.
My point isn’t that toxicity makes women worse players than men. It’s that it wholly turns away many casual female players from investing in the time and effort to improve and compete, resulting in a stunted talent pool. As a result, the pool of talent for men is so much larger even if the fraction of eligible talent is the same.
Simply observing that the level of play in GC is lower doesn’t actually help you in drawing any conclusions. It’s merely an observation.
I do think you've made many excellent points about casual female gamers trying to climb the ranks of gaming and the stigma around women in gaming, but I don't believe that the lack of women in T1 esports is due solely to hostility. Toxicity does stop certain women from improving, but what about the women who are already being coached and in their own leagues/circuits?
You can make arguments that discrimination applies in CS/Val cuz of voice chat, but let's look at a game like league of legends, where solo queue can be an objective metric of skill free from discrimination, but in 10+ years, there hasn't been any women who could compete in even T3 leagues. For some reason, the talent isn't there in an environment where discrimination isn't a thing.
Women's circuits have also already existed in Lol/CS for 20+ years, and it hasn't done anything to accomplish the stated goal of creating t1 ready women. Meanwhile there are infinitely less transwomen in esports, get the same or even more discrimination, yet have more success. This applies to VALORANT as well. The only GC player you hear any pro talking about being in a tier 1 team is flor (who I do believe has the skill for t1).
Now I'm not going to sit here and debate reaction times and whatnot, but I believe that women aren't successful in esports due to mentality and attitude. Judit Polgár is by far the most successful woman ever in chess (peaking Rank 8 world) she said that she practiced for 6hrs+ a day, while all the other women weren't serious about chess and instead were interested in careers that were more fulfilling. I think there's a lot of women that simply don't have the motivation and aggression that men do to make it into T1 esports (where longevity isn't guaranteed).
Esports is cut-throat, aggressive. You have to be dedicated to it, and while there's been women who have found success (Hafu in WoW and Hearthstone) women on average haven't shown as high of a ceiling as men. Some want people to believe it's due solely to discrimination, but that doesn't seem to be the whole story.
ImExempt [#124]Kind of nonsensical to compare a fast paced reaction game like valorant to a methodical strategy oriented game thats more focused around memorization and algorithms like chess
you clearly don't know anything about chess if you think it's about memorization and algorithms--especially in the top level, and especially at blitz chess
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