silchas [#3]cauanzin's skye > Leo's skye
i feel like i could go either way, but leos more consistent
Hades_Loves_Rb [#5]https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo
you showed me an example where chichoo doesnt play viper and Less drops 26 on viper second map thanks for proving my point
LUL bro edited the link
cartixuzi [#8]Astra - Demon1
Brimstone - Demon1
Jett - Demon1/aspas
Chamber - Demon1
you cant say anyone over yay for chamber-hes just that good. I went for aspas over demon1 on jett as hes the much better awper. For astra and brim. demon1 has the best raw mechanics, but mako has the best utility
Hades_Loves_Rb [#5]https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo
??????? LOL
Loud eliminated EDG from champions +
Where is chichoo? https://twitter.com/willminder/status/1696752141874954380?t=C8EggYKbA4dN_Wnt1G_zlg&s=19
https://twitter.com/willminder/status/1697085369898905644?t=KJ2tz-OdWzlGVYvmpFoFYA&s=19
Hades_Loves_Rb [#9]you cant say anyone over yay for chamber-hes just that good. I went for aspas over demon1 on jett as hes the much better awper. For astra and brim. demon1 has the best raw mechanics, but mako has the best utility
demon1 was the best chamber this year while yay had a bad year, demon1 can 100% awp as good as aspas but just doesnt use it as much so idk why we're lying there, and literally what difference in utility does mako provide that demon1 cant + the fact that demon1 gapped him on smokes in both series against drx.
cartixuzi [#12]demon1 was the best chamber this year while yay had a bad year, demon1 can 100% awp as good as aspas but just doesnt use it as much so idk why we're lying there, and literally what difference in utility does mako provide that demon1 cant + the fact that demon1 gapped him on smokes in both series against drx.
lowk by that logic demon1 is the best at everything since his mechs carry him to insane peaks
Dreoxx [#14]lowk by that logic demon1 is the best at everything since his mechs carry him to insane peaks
no, he's the best on the agents hes actually the best on, which are 100% astra, brim, chamber, and debatably jett.
cartixuzi [#15]no, he's the best on the agents hes actually the best on, which are 100% astra, brim, chamber, and debatably jett.
hes been on those agents, hence why light has shown on those agents. ofc he plays those agents since he is the best at them, but your arguments by far refer to his mechanical aim. thus, your claims lose validity but i get and partially agree with your point! :D
(edit) also I'd have to disagree with util. mako is well-agreed upon that he has by far superior utility usage (emphasis on usage). ofc demon1 has decent gamesense and has spectacular decision making, but by those aspects I still think mako does better and why hes rated highly by the community ^o^
Dreoxx [#16]hes been on those agents, hence why light has shown on those agents. ofc he plays those agents since he is the best at them, but your arguments by far refer to his mechanical aim. thus, your claims lose validity but i get and partially agree with your point! :D
(edit) also I'd have to disagree with util. mako is well-agreed upon that he has by far superior utility usage (emphasis on usage). ofc demon1 has decent gamesense and has spectacular decision making, but by those aspects I still think mako does better and why hes rated highly by the community ^o^
no, my arguments are not strictly referring to his mechanical aim at all lol. he's one of if not the best player when it comes to micro movement in the scene, one of the best players when it comes to positioning and quick reads, and other boring shit. I literally don't understand why you instantly jotted it all down to aim diff when there a shit ton of ppl out there with better aim than him but can't translate it as well as demon1 can when it matters, like there are other factors my guy. Mako didn't get washed by Demon1 in his last match against them because Demon1 is the Jesus Christ of aiming, he got washed because Demon1 was the way better controller.
Also this whole "well-agreed upon util superiority" has to be one of the biggest glazing statements made towards a player by far as if it's some kind of sole reason why he's the best even when he gets washed by other controllers. Demon1 was the best controller of Champs 2023 and is currently the best as of right now, lets wake up no?
cartixuzi [#17]no, my arguments are not strictly referring to his mechanical aim at all lol. he's one of if not the best player when it comes to micro movement in the scene, one of the best players when it comes to positioning and quick reads, and other boring shit. I literally don't understand why you instantly jotted it all down to aim diff when there a shit ton of ppl out there with better aim than him but can't translate it as well as demon1 can when it matters, like there are other factors my guy. Mako didn't get washed by Demon1 in his last match against them because Demon1 is the Jesus Christ of aiming, he got washed because Demon1 was the way better controller.
Also this whole "well-agreed upon util superiority" has to be one of the biggest glazing statements made towards a player by far as if it's some kind of sole reason why he's the best even when he gets washed by other controllers. Demon1 was the best controller of Champs 2023 and is currently the best as of right now, lets wake up no?
calling that glazing is wild bro look at yourself 💀
cartixuzi [#8]Astra - Demon1
Brimstone - Demon1
Jett - Demon1/aspas
Chamber - Demon1
Yay's peak and overall on chamber is better than demon1. Also this isn't about raw mechanics its about overall usage of utility WITH raw mechanics, so mako on smokes> demon1 on smokes. Though demon1 is also insane, but its more because of his aim
FireII [#28]calling that glazing is wild bro look at yourself 💀
https://www.vlr.gg/248275/drx-vs-evil-geniuses-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubsf biggest smokes gap of the tourney btw, but yea i guess demon1 played like a monkey in that series and was solely carried by his aim of course
cartixuzi [#34]https://www.vlr.gg/248275/drx-vs-evil-geniuses-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubsf biggest smokes gap of the tourney btw, but yea i guess demon1 played like a monkey in that series and was solely carried by his aim of course
U dont need to argue with fools who rarely know Demon1. The ones who knows know how good he really is on Duelist/Smokes/everything
Shadow_Monarch [#36]U dont need to argue with fools who rarely know Demon1. The ones who knows know how good he really is on Duelist/Smokes/everything
i just dont understand this type of denial at all
Jett-Demon1/Aspas
Raze-Jawgemo/Jinggg
Yoru-Ethan/Forsaken/Tenz
Iso-Demon1
Reyna-Demon1/Aspas
Neon-Victor
Phoenix-Victor
Sova-Leo
Breach-Ethan
Skye-Ethan
Fade-Leo
Gekko- we shall see soon
Kayo-Ethan
Viper-Zander
Brimstone-Marved/Demon1
Astra-Marved/Demon1
Omen-Marved
Harbor-Mazino
Killjoy-Alfajer
Cypher-Nats
Deadlock-Johnqt
Sage-Chronicle
Chamber-Demon1/Yay
EseemedRes1180 [#24]Viper i would say zest the amount of set plays and viper util combos he's come up with is insane
Goat
Shadow_Monarch [#41]Jett-Demon1/Aspas
Raze-Jawgemo/Jinggg
Yoru-Ethan/Forsaken/Tenz
Iso-Demon1
Reyna-Demon1/Aspas
Neon-Victor
Phoenix-VictorSova-Leo
Breach-Ethan
Skye-Ethan
Fade-Leo
Gekko- we shall see soon
Kayo-EthanViper-Zander
Brimstone-Marved/Demon1
Astra-Marved/Demon1
Omen-Marved
Harbor-MazinoKilljoy-Alfajer
Cypher-Nats
Deadlock-Johnqt
Sage-Chronicle
Chamber-Demon1/Yay
Reyna demon1/aspas 🤡
Jett- ZmjKK
Raze- Jinggg
Yoru- Forsaken
Iso- Viva
Reyna- Something
Neon- Victor
Phoenix- Jinggg
Sova- Leo
Breach- Zellsis
Skye- cauanzin
Fade- Leo
Gekko- Bob
Kayo- Ethan
Viper- Less
Brimstone- Demon1
Astra- Mako
Omen- Mako
Harbor- Tuyz
Killjoy- Alfajer
Cypher- Nats
Deadlock- Eren
Sage- Sheydos
Chamber- yay
cartixuzi [#12]demon1 was the best chamber this year while yay had a bad year, demon1 can 100% awp as good as aspas but just doesnt use it as much so idk why we're lying there, and literally what difference in utility does mako provide that demon1 cant + the fact that demon1 gapped him on smokes in both series against drx.
saying demon1 can awp as good as aspas is crazy tho 💀
EseemedRes1180 [#24]Viper i would say zest the amount of set plays and viper util combos he's come up with is insane
The coaches came up with it
wykes [#47]saying demon1 can awp as good as aspas is crazy tho 💀
https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1692336811052302558 nah he can if u watch him, he just doesnt want to awp and he's mentioned it a lot of times on it being one of the reasons why he doesnt like playing jett
cartixuzi [#34]https://www.vlr.gg/248275/drx-vs-evil-geniuses-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-ubsf biggest smokes gap of the tourney btw, but yea i guess demon1 played like a monkey in that series and was solely carried by his aim of course
nah bro I agree that demon1 is a top smokes player in the world, he’s so much more than just aim and he has shown that plenty of times. just taking a pick at the glazing comment
cartixuzi [#49]https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1692336811052302558 nah he can if u watch him, he just doesnt want to awp and he's mentioned it a lot of times on it being one of the reasons why he doesnt like playing jett
?
This doesn't mean anything really, this is the stats of one of the matches, if you take that into consideration even dgzin would be a better oper, since he has the most kills with op in vct americas.
Demon is a good oper, but not close to aspas awping at all.
Cheasle2 [#45]Jett- ZmjKK
Raze- Jinggg
Yoru- Forsaken
Iso- Viva
Reyna- Something
Neon- Victor
Phoenix- JingggSova- Leo
Breach- Zellsis
Skye- cauanzin
Fade- Leo
Gekko- Bob
Kayo- EthanViper- Less
Brimstone- Demon1
Astra- Mako
Omen- Mako
Harbor- TuyzKilljoy- Alfajer
Cypher- Nats
Deadlock- Eren
Sage- Sheydos
Chamber- yay
Ok but who are viva and even?
Also KK is good but nowhere near aspas/demon1
wykes [#51]?
This doesn't mean anything really, this is the stats of one of the matches, if you take that into consideration even dgzin would be a better oper, since he has the most kills with op in vct americas.
Demon is a good oper, but not close to aspas awping at all.
its a stat of one of the very few matches where hes put on OP duty, I'm showing you that he doesn't need to OP consistently to be "close to aspas awping" when he's already good enough for that to begin with. Also that match was a mirror matchup against the best OPer in the scene and Demon1 hard diffed him in that aspect, but alr I guess its just one of his many matches so it clearly doesnt mean anything lol
cartixuzi [#53]its a stat of one of the very few matches where hes put on OP duty, I'm showing you that he doesn't need to OP consistently to be "close to aspas awping" when he's already good enough for that to begin with. Also that match was a mirror matchup against the best OPer in the scene and Demon1 hard diffed him in that aspect, but alr I guess its just one of his many matches so it clearly doesnt mean anything lol
Demon1 played plenty of operator in VCT Americas, so saying its one of the few games where he plays it is an absolute joke,he was the 3rd with most kills on it during americas.
also kang kang is not the best awper, he is the flashiest one.
both series he played against loud, aspas outfragged him with the op
If you actually watch vct with your eyes open, you would see that no, he is not close to aspas in awping,
aspas decision making with the op is just 20x better than anyone else right now.
wykes [#54]Demon1 played plenty of operator in VCT Americas, so saying its one of the few games where he plays it is an absolute joke,he was the 3rd with most kills on it during americas.
also kang kang is not the best awper, he is the flashiest one.
both series he played against loud, aspas outfragged him with the op
If you actually watch vct with your eyes open, you would see that no, he is not close to aspas in awping,
aspas decision making with the op is just 20x better than anyone else right now.
imagine glazing aspas' OP so hard that you unironically think his decision making is 20x better than anyone else holy lol. you're meat riding him to no end, there are already handful of OPers that are as good as aspas in terms of OPing like something for example but you're in a complete state of denial atm. Out here telling me to watch VCT with my eyes open to understand that aspas is the Jesus Christ of Operators lmfao. Demon1 having the 3rd most OP kills in VCT Americas and yet you're still convinced he isn't close to aspas' level im dead.
Also statistically speaking, KangKang was indeed the best OPer heading into that series by far, so you do you ig.
cartixuzi [#55]imagine glazing aspas' OP so hard that you unironically think his decision making is 20x better than anyone else holy lol. you're meat riding him to no end, there are already handful of OPers that are as good as aspas in terms of OPing like something for example but you're in a complete state of denial atm. Out here telling me to watch VCT with my eyes open to understand that aspas is the Jesus Christ of Operators lmfao. Demon1 having the 3rd most OP kills in VCT Americas and yet you're still convinced he isn't close to aspas' level im dead.
Also statistically speaking, KangKang was indeed the best OPer heading into that series by far, so you do you ig.
with the op, his decision making his far better than anyone else using it.
It is not glazing, its having your eyes open, it has been talked by sgares, sliggy, casters, mimi... etc...
frod was by far the best with the awp in 1.6 and last year aspas became a way better oper due to his help.
You are the one blinded and meat riding, just by going into your first page in vlr and pressing ctrl + f and typing demon1, there is 29results. Demon1 is an elite rifler, not an elite oper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY33JYgaSA
Also difference from aspas to demon1 in vct americas op kills was whole 40 kills since you mentioned it.
aspas had 113
demon1 73
wykes [#56]with the op, his decision making his far better than anyone else using it.
It is not glazing, its having your eyes open, it has been talked by sgares, sliggy, casters, mimi... etc...
frod was by far the best with the awp in 1.6 and last year aspas became a way better oper due to his help.
You are the one blinded and meat riding, just by going into your first page in vlr and pressing ctrl + f and typing demon1, there is 29results. Demon1 is an elite rifler, not an elite oper.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY33JYgaSA
Also difference from aspas to demon1 in vct americas op kills was whole 40 kills since you mentioned it.
aspas had 113
demon1 73
bc if you're not better than aspas then you aren't an elite oper, do you even understand what you're typing rn LMAO. stop trying to gaslight whilst sucking aspas off like this bc its actually insane how you do it rn. The sheer belief that you don't even consider Demon1 to be an elite OPer is unironically heart breaking. Out here giving me the total OP kills during VCT Americas between the two players as if Demon1 has picked up the OP close to the amount of times aspas has.
And then on top of all that, you link me a video of Sean breaking down aspas' gameplay as some sort of dumb af proof as if Demon1 has never been capable of making great decision making plays holy. Did you read into the clickbait and jacked off to it or did you actually watch the video and understand that Sean wasn't making a comparison between the two duelists at all. I'm sure Sean can also break down Demon1's decision makings when he dropped 101 kills on LOUD if he feels up to it.
Good to see that you don't consider anyone else in the pro scene to be an elite oper aside from aspas though. Tells me alot about u xd
cartixuzi [#57]bc if you're not better than aspas then you aren't an elite oper, do you even understand what you're typing rn LMAO. stop trying to gaslight whilst sucking aspas off like this bc its actually insane how you do it rn. The sheer belief that you don't even consider Demon1 to be an elite OPer is unironically heart breaking. Out here giving me the total OP kills during VCT Americas between the two players as if Demon1 has picked up the OP close to the amount of times aspas has.
And then on top of all that, you link me a video of Sean breaking down aspas' gameplay as some sort of dumb af proof as if Demon1 has never been capable of making great decision making plays holy. Did you read into the clickbait and jacked off to it or did you actually watch the video and understand that Sean wasn't making a comparison between the two duelists at all. I'm sure Sean can also break down Demon1's decision makings when he dropped 101 kills on LOUD if he feels up to it.
Good to see that you don't consider anyone else in the pro scene to be an elite oper aside from aspas though. Tells me alot about u xd
No, there is 3 elite opers.
aspas
Cned
kang kang
If you consider Elite top 5 and not top 3, then sure put demon1 up there in the so called elite.
also you were the one mentioning the top 3, so i just mentioned the difference from top 2 to top 3 :skull "Demon1 having the 3rd most OP kills in VCT Americas and yet you're still convinced he isn't close to aspas' level im dead."
I sent that video just as a basis, if you can say something that proves it as dumb proof send it.
im not sucking off anyone, even in the ludwig x tarik invitational, mimi,tarik,sgares discussed best oper NA, they said if its only NA demon1, if it includes SA aspas for sure.
I think only you, the biggest fanboy of demon1 are the one convinced he is that good with the op when he is not.
I also see nothing where i talked about raw decision making, i talked about op decision making, so bringing up the 101 match is just to boost your idea that you are right.
wykes [#58]No, there is 3 elite opers.
aspas
Cned
kang kangIf you consider Elite top 5 and not top 3, then sure put demon1 up there in the so called elite.
also you were the one mentioning the top 3, so i just mentioned the difference from top 2 to top 3 :skull "Demon1 having the 3rd most OP kills in VCT Americas and yet you're still convinced he isn't close to aspas' level im dead."
I sent that video just as a basis, if you can say something that proves it as dumb proof send it.
im not sucking off anyone, even in the ludwig x tarik invitational, mimi,tarik,sgares discussed best oper NA, they said if its only NA demon1, if it includes SA aspas for sure.I think only you, the biggest fanboy of demon1 are the one convinced he is that good with the op when he is not.
I also see nothing where i talked about raw decision making, i talked about op decision making, so bringing up the 101 match is just to boost your idea that you are right.
first you say shit like "aspas is 20x better than anyone else in OPing" and now you're telling me two other players are in the tier as him? now you're contradicting urself bro just stop glazing him its not that deep.
cartixuzi [#59]first you say shit like "aspas is 20x better than anyone else in OPing" and now you're telling me two other players are in the tier as him? now you're contradicting urself bro just stop glazing him its not that deep.
?
are you braindead?
Elite is top 3
Doesn't mean top 1 isn't far better than top 2 and top 2 might be far better than top 3
just because i have a top 1 doesn't mean a top 2 player can't exist
wykes [#60]?
are you braindead?Elite is top 3
Doesn't mean top 1 isn't far better than top 2 and top 2 might be far better than top 3
just because i have a top 1 doesn't mean a top 2 player can't exist
who died to make elite in this context mean top 3 bro lmfao are you actually stupid. what the fuck. did you seriously make up your own crtieria of what makes an elite player and then call me brain dead for not noticing? you are actually hopeless lmfao like if someone mentions another player to be elite, do you also get upset from the use of that word bc they're not aspas or smth?
cartixuzi [#61]who died to make elite in this context mean top 3 bro lmfao are you actually stupid. what the fuck. did you seriously make up your own crtieria of what makes an elite player and then call me brain dead for not noticing? you are actually hopeless lmfao like if someone mentions another player to be elite, do you also get upset from the use of that word bc they're not aspas or smth?
In a tierlist, tier S is generally for the top 3 only.
So I consider elite the top 3.
And you just proved yourself to be even more braindead than i thought, should've seen that coming from somoene with 1300 posts in a 3month old account
wykes [#62]In a tierlist, tier S is generally for the top 3 only.
So I consider elite the top 3.
And you just proved yourself to be even more braindead than i thought, should've seen that coming from somoene with 1300 posts in a 3month old account
"In a tierlist, tier S is generally for the top 3 only" ???????????????????
cartixuzi [#63]"In a tierlist, tier S is generally for the top 3 only" ???????????????????
Oh yes, let me just make the best tier have 20 fucking players.
wykes [#64]Oh yes, let me just make the best tier have 20 fucking players.
there's no definite number to a single tier in any tier list why do i have to explain this to you
cartixuzi [#65]there's no definite number to a single tier in any tier list why do i have to explain this to you
And i said above "If you consider Elite top 5 and not top 3, then sure put demon1 up there in the so called elite."
Im going by a general mean of best tier can't have too much people, but you don't seem to do well in the activity of using your braincells.
wykes [#66]And i said above "If you consider Elite top 5 and not top 3, then sure put demon1 up there in the so called elite."
Im going by a general mean of best tier can't have too much people, but you don't seem to do well in the activity of using your braincells.
no dude, tier lists are based off of whether or not the shit inside the tier makes sense, there's no set number for the amount of things you can put in them dude, this isn't just my opinion this is literally how every tier lists works. If you watch 5 movies that are all 10/10, you dont pick three of them to put into S tier and then the rest a whole tier lower, you're basing it all off of like a top 10 list when it isnt. if you unironically dont understand that then gj wasting my time then idk
cartixuzi [#67]no dude, tier lists are based off of whether or not the shit inside the tier makes sense, there's no set number for the amount of things you can put in them dude, this isn't just my opinion this is literally how every tier lists works. If you watch 5 movies that are all 10/10, you dont pick three of them to put into S tier and then the rest a whole tier lower, you're basing it all off of like a top 10 list when it isnt. if you unironically dont understand that then gj wasting my time then idk
No, you are the one that doesn't understand. I love many series and movies, but Tier S has to be exclusive somehow. Not to mention that even amongst the 10/10 movies you have watched there has to be a movie you like more than the other or tier S will be meaningless.
It also depends on how many movies you have watched, if you watched over 1000 movies, it is fine for you to have a wider range of S tier movies, but you don't have 100 duelist players that go to international events and perform. So it needs to be exclusive.
I wont discuss this further , i do not have a lifetime to use on this website, and this topic is meaningless. i have already said if you want to consider "Elite" as a top 5 and not top 3 demon1 would be a elite in my list as he is the 4th best oper in my opinion.
IMPeriaL__200 [#29]leo's is more consistent
I don't think that cauanzin is "inconsistent". 2023 was his rookie year, and I believe it's more likely that he's improved over the course of the year - heading into this year, there's a strong possibility he could probably keep his champs form up.
NexusNomad [#52]Ok but who are viva and even?
Also KK is good but nowhere near aspas/demon1
Viva and Eren chinese players. Some of the few who play deadlock or Iso, and they're pretty good at them, so why not.
Cheasle2 [#70]Viva and Eren chinese players. Some of the few who play deadlock or Iso, and they're pretty good at them, so why not.
Oh! but i think it's unfair to rank them given they are the only ones who play that agent. I mean you should have a large number of pros and matches to rank them.
Cromawarrior48 [#46]Jett-Aspas
Raze-Jinggg
Yoru-Forsaken
Iso- no one fkin cares
Reyna-Something
Neon-Sayf
Phoenix-ScreamSova-Leo
Breach- Jamppi
Skye-Leo
Fade-Shao
Gekko- none
Kayo-EthanViper-Nats
Brimstone- Marved
Astra- Boaster
Omen-Mako
Harbor-s0mKilljoy-Less
Cypher-Nats
Deadlock- BabyJ
Sage-
Chamber-yay
cgrs exists
NexusNomad [#71]Oh! but i think it's unfair to rank them given they are the only ones who play that agent. I mean you should have a large number of pros and matches to rank them.
they arent the only ones, but they're the players playing them at the highest tier of play that i've seen (CN ascension playoffs) and play them well.
Jett-derke
Raze-Jinggg
Yoru-cned
Iso-none
Reyna-Something
Neon-qw1
Phoenix-scream
Sova-Leo
Breach-chronicle
Skye-Leo
Fade-Shao
Gekko-qraxs
Kayo-qraxs
Viper-nats
Brimstone-b0tster
Astra-shao
Omen-ange1 😉
Harbor- na spammer agent irrelevant
Killjoy-alfajer
Cypher-Nats
Deadlock-none
Sage-cNed
Chamber-derke
cartixuzi [#38]i just dont understand this type of denial at all
he didnt do well 'cause hes good at smokes, he did well 'cause he can aim, he can do that on any agent
GhostKing44 [#84]he didnt do well 'cause hes good at smokes, he did well 'cause he can aim, he can do that on any agent
aim isnt everything though for the love of god lol
Discord